Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

DDs "home" is in melee range parsing the backs of the enemies while the tank hold the enemies.
Sometimes AOE's needs to be dodged but no fight are exclusively at range.
And yes Templar is arguably the easiest class to pick up which is why I picked it.

Many bosses have multiple times when melee range is unavailable. Jabs user will have to use light attacks with bow during this time.

ixthUA wrote: »

Many bosses have multiple times when melee range is unavailable. Jabs user will have to use light attacks with bow during this time.

Could you clarify where this happens beyond needing to take a step back or out of an AoE and then back into melee range?

ixthUA wrote: »

Troodon80 wrote: »

ixthUA wrote: »

Many bosses have multiple times when melee range is unavailable. Jabs user will have to use light attacks with bow during this time.

Could you clarify where this happens beyond needing to take a step back or out of an AoE and then back into melee range?

When you need to be moving, kiting.
Black Drake Villa last boss, he has AOE that lasts for some time and you cannot stand there.
White Gold Tower last boss, when it uses AOE and you need to keep dodging it.
Blessed Crucible last boss, during AOE stage melee is impossible.
Dread Cellar last boss, kind of need to keep running in circles.
Depths of Malatar, try to melee that wall on the last boss.

Jabs probably has the highest range of all melee skills in the game. It hits for 8 meters. That's pretty big and is longer than range of your melee light/heavies. And those melee unfriendly phases don't last long.

LashanW wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Everyone can break 20k in my opinion after they reach cp160.

On a 3m dummy, yes I agree. All it needs is some build that makes sense (sets with magicka related stats if you are using magicka skills for example) and a bit of practice.

Troodon80 wrote: »

I'm not disagreeing (quite the opposite), but could you also demonstrate no-CP or just none slotted but keep things like Piercing? Could you also demonstrate the use of a couple light (crafted) pieces over medium? If not, I can do so later.

I know this wasn't aimed at me, but I did a test on my pet sorc as I was curious.

I'm pretty used to magsorc rotation and good with light attack weaving. To account for this, I didn't use strong crafted/overland set combinations like Julianos and Mother's sorrow. Also no CP. Didn't upgrade gear either. But still used Thief mundus and spell power potions.

This is the build,
5 pieces - Queen's Elegance (overland set from Auridon - link)
Not really a strong set by any means, I've never used it before so wanted to try it out, just to see the sustain effect. Used on body with default enchantments.

4 pieces - Assassin's Guile (crafted set requiring 3 traits - link)
1-4 piece effects on this set are pretty strong. So I crafted at cp150 in white quality and used white quality enchantments.

3 pieces - Willpower (link)
Potential reward for random daily dungeon. Can also be bought from guild traders for fairly cheap. Used jewelry pieces with default traits and default enchantments.

25k dps on 3m dummy.

Check the rotation. Zero misses. This consistent optimal damage is the result of practice and self monitoring, either when playing any content or through parsing. Thanks for showing this.The feedback on how well anyone does damage is missing in a lot of the game. People just don't have a reliable 'measuring stick' like attacking mobs of differing level/difficulty to assess their improvement because of the scaling system, so they really have no idea.

The feedback from other players in a group or guild, or researching external sites should not be the main source of information on how to improve when levelling. I have often wondered why they don't link the launcher in every release to a new pre-made tutorial on the combat system. Or even include a short cinematic called 'how to pwn stuff'.

There are some brilliant you-tube videos made by true teachers who explain the fundamentals, clearly and simply, by showing not telling.

People who are curious about the how the game works would be happy, those struggling would have an easy in-game reference point to use to understand how to improve, people who are not used to reading or researching for themselves would at least be aware such a visual guide exists.

I'm leaving the whole overland difficulty stuff aside. I 'get' that a lot of people wouldn't watch said material, but it shouldn't be so *** hard to find stuff so when you start the game you understand LA after a skill every skill on cooldown will improve damage more than just wearing the bestest gear in the game. OR that if you can't do that for w/e reason (and i am one of those people) there are some options to keep you viable enough to play 95% of the content. Or that if you choose to pay that no attention you can still have fun doing most things but may not be viable for a chunk of content. Then the player can make an informed decision. They can decide to: 'Git gud', or just to 'get better', or simply 'do nothing'. That is partly what the play how you want mantra means to me.

To make that decision people need some feedback.

@LashanW

Was going to do some myself if no one else did. Really thorough tests and really nice to see. Thanks for the effort.

ixthUA wrote: »

When you need to be moving, kiting.
Black Drake Villa last boss, he has AOE that lasts for some time and you cannot stand there.
White Gold Tower last boss, when it uses AOE and you need to keep dodging it.
Dread Cellar last boss, kind of need to keep running in circles.
Depths of Malatar, try to melee that wall on the last boss.

As said, most of these don't last long enough to care about spending that much time on your bow doing nothing but light attacks. In the one or two instances where this is a thing, if you're using dual wield, you have access to a ranged dual wield attack anyway (Hidden Blade). If you're using two-hander and bow, then yeah, you can use one or two light attacks and maybe a poison injection or refresh your Volley. If you're magicka, then you should slot Force Pulse for ranged phases and use Sweeps for melee. These phases really don't last long enough to care and jabs will still be your highest damage output. But I'll break down some of these examples anyway.

Black Drake Villa last boss, he has AOE that lasts for some time and you cannot stand there.
Blessed Crucible last boss, during AOE stage melee is impossible.

I'm including both of these together because, yeah, they're pretty nasty. You go melee when you can and you used ranged when you can't. There's not much more to it than that. Phases last from 6 seconds to 10 seconds. Bonus points to Blessed Crucible for neeing to divert attention and kill atronachs which are some distance away.

White Gold Tower last boss, when it uses AOE and you need to keep dodging it.

You mean the lightning lines which are rotating like a fan that can you dodge roll through and keep DPSing? Melee has never been an issue for me. I'm not seeing the problem there.

Dread Cellar last boss, kind of need to keep running in circles.

I don't understand this. You keep the boss still until is does the smash and spawns two fire tornado AoEs. Then the tank moves the boss out of it. I don't understand the "running in circles" bit. When you come back from doing the obelisk phase at 60/30 you get the moving fire AoE line, but the centre is safe and you don't have to move. I am confused by the need to run in circles.

Depths of Malatar, try to melee that wall on the last boss.

I'm going to assume you mean the first phase. I've done melee on this plenty of times and it's not an issue, especially with Jabs having longer range than some other melee abilities. I've also done this as a stamina nightblade, mag DK with Whip, among others. You just need to be careful to move with it and not run into it. If the second phase, again, depends on the tank. If you do what most tanks do, then they'll be parked on the edge of the cliff and avoid the walls. If I'm tanking and I know both my DDs are melee, I'll be in the centre kiting the walls with them. But that's just me. Outside of that, yeah, you might need some ranged abilities. But it's hardly the end of the world. In most situations where you do actually need range as stamina, snipe is a go-to option.

Gleitfrosch wrote: »

I'm quite sure even with 2k dps you won't need 2 hours to finish fg.

I had dungeon runs where we rushed through all bosses and also runs where we took it slow and did not sprint from boss to boss while skipping trash mobs. Personally I enjoyed the relaxed runs far more than the rushes.

The run I linked on a previous page or topic showed a veteran Fungal Grotto run which took just over two hours says otherwise (it took us almost five minutes to kill the first trash pack right by the entrance). The group did a total of around 4k DPS and I did ~50% as a tank when I was only around 200 CP. Your "certainty" is duly noted.

Troodon80 wrote: »

Gleitfrosch wrote: »

I'm quite sure even with 2k dps you won't need 2 hours to finish fg.

I had dungeon runs where we rushed through all bosses and also runs where we took it slow and did not sprint from boss to boss while skipping trash mobs. Personally I enjoyed the relaxed runs far more than the rushes.

The run I linked on a previous page or topic showed a veteran Fungal Grotto run which took just over two hours says otherwise (it took us almost five minutes to kill the first trash pack right by the entrance). The group did a total of around 4k DPS and I did ~50% as a tank when I was only around 200 CP. Your "certainty" is duly noted.

This is why people don't like fake dps right here. A dps that is trying to build for damage at least is gonna hit more than that. That's 1k damage a piece. Nobody can convince me that's a result of building to do damage and using damage skills.

Troodon80 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

This is why people don't like fake dps right here. A dps that is trying to build for damage at least is gonna hit more than that. That's 1k damage a piece. Nobody can convince me that's a result of building to do damage and using damage skills.

That's 1k a piece assuming the healer doesn't do any. But as I explained in that other post, I don't do solo randoms any more, and I certainly don't tank them. For years now, I have only done pre-mades and I encourage anyone else who has problems with the dungeon finder to do the same. Setting aside the notion of what is or is not"fake," the one thing I do agree with is that placing expections is not what you should do with the random queue.

I respectfully disagree. In other games, this kind of thing could easily be considered gameplay sabotage because people have a reasonable expectation that people will actually attempt to perform the role they agreed to do, or in games where's that not appropriate (like this one) there will be something that they have to do to unlock queueing that shows that they are capable of doing what they said they'd do, eso has neither.

Making a premade is not a legit fix to the queue, it's a bypass. The problem with it is that the queue is intended for people to find a dungeon without needing a premade.

DonHardstyle wrote: »

You should realize that not everyone cares about their DPS. People are just having fun in the game.

agree

Alemtuzumab wrote: »

Edit: I think I just found the answer.

Joined a random Trial pug, and this is what showed up on log:


Let's see what the ~9k range dps have and what they were doing during the fight:
Magplar no.1 (9228.7)

Gear: (All in correct traits)


Perfectly normal, right? (Except for the crown poison)
However...

Skills:


Wait...

Cast:



Now I see why their Sweep is doing a measly 3k dps even with all gold Medusa/Julianos/Slimecraw...

Magplar no.2 (9736.0)

Gear:


Huh???

Skills:


HUH?????

Cast:


Somehow this guy's Sweep is 2x the dps than the previous dude...
My brain is hurting so much right now...

Honorable mentions:

1. Magplar no.3, dps: 14,357.2

Skills:


2. Magsorc, dps: 12581.5

(Pets doing 4x more damage than their Elemental Weapon...)

---

Normally I'd be more than happy to give underperforming dps with the right gears some tips to boost their damage.
But I don't have the time to PM 6 complete strangers to point out their problems.

They were doing the right mechs and even got the 1st boss down to 15% health that attempt.
Almost all of them had bis gears with the correct traits.

Yet, no one told Magplar no.2 that, as a dps, their job is to damage the boss instead of adding heals.
No one told Magplar no.1 and no.3 that their skills are all over the place.
And no one told Magsorc no.4 that Force Shock is a much better spammable in real combats, and that Alcast only uses Elemental Weapon on parses.

All of the aforementioned dps were sitting >1000cp, some were even >1500cp.

This is why, it is possible for ppl to have <10k dps--Information inequality, the lack of critical thinking skills, and herd mentality

---

You can easily reach 17k dps by spamming light attack


You can easily reach 40k dps by spamming light attack + 2 skills


How is <10k dps even possible?

Also consider that they could be sold accounts. I was in a dungeon with a cp 1800 magsorc that just spammed frags and didn't know basic mechanics of base game vet dungeons. Pretty sure purchased