How is it possible to deal such low(<10k) dps? (Solved, #1 updated)

Alemtuzumab

Edit: I think I just found the answer.

Joined a random Trial pug, and this is what showed up on log:


Let's see what the ~9k range dps have and what they were doing during the fight:
Magplar no.1 (9228.7)

Gear: (All in correct traits)


Perfectly normal, right? (Except for the crown poison)
However...

Skills:


Wait...

Cast:



Now I see why their Sweep is doing a measly 3k dps even with all gold Medusa/Julianos/Slimecraw...

Magplar no.2 (9736.0)

Gear:


Huh???

Skills:


HUH?????

Cast:


Somehow this guy's Sweep is 2x the dps than the previous dude...
My brain is hurting so much right now...

Honorable mentions:

1. Magplar no.3, dps: 14,357.2

Skills:


2. Magsorc, dps: 12581.5

(Pets doing 4x more damage than their Elemental Weapon...)

---

Normally I'd be more than happy to give underperforming dps with the right gears some tips to boost their damage.
But I don't have the time to PM 6 complete strangers to point out their problems.

They were doing the right mechs and even got the 1st boss down to 15% health that attempt.
Almost all of them had bis gears with the correct traits.

Yet, no one told Magplar no.2 that, as a dps, their job is to damage the boss instead of adding heals.
No one told Magplar no.1 and no.3 that their skills are all over the place.
And no one told Magsorc no.4 that Force Shock is a much better spammable in real combats, and that Alcast only uses Elemental Weapon on parses.

All of the aforementioned dps were sitting >1000cp, some were even >1500cp.

This is why, it is possible for ppl to have <10k dps--Information inequality, the lack of critical thinking skills, and herd mentality

---

You can easily reach 17k dps by spamming light attack


You can easily reach 40k dps by spamming light attack + 2 skills


How is <10k dps even possible?

redspecter23

ESO has a very large casual playerbase. Many people don't even know that their dps is low. They don't even know what their dps is in any given fight. They also don't use Combat Metrics and most players will never even bother stepping in front of a training dummy.

That's not necessarily a bad thing, but I'm just noting that the base game as presented doesn't really help anyone to know what their dps value will be in combat. A lack of knowledge can lead to overall ignorance. Someone can't improve if they don't even realize they are underperforming.

That's all assuming ignorance. There are also situations where players willfully ignore mechanics, red circles or other one shots. They may not be geared well enough to survive many common situations. They may not know the value of sets or have any idea how to set up their cp. They don't know what a rotation or weaving is.

There are plenty of people that are very low dps and in a lot of those cases, they may not even know.

VaranisArano

How is <10k DPS possible?

You don't spam light attacks.
You don't weave, either.
Potions? What potions? Be glad you have a food buff.
You don't have a rotation, or you execute it badly.
You don't have "a build" so much as you have just been playing around, wearing whatever armor looked cool, and using whatever skills and weapons looked fun.
You might have a "build" but it's not remotely optimized and you don't want to change it.
You don't have CP, or if you do, you've stuck them in whatever places looked good instead of what's useful.

I mean, you were a new player once, just like I was. We learned to do DPS. Most players with <10k DPS are new to the game, new to the Damage Dealer role, or don't care about changing their playstyle to deal more damage.

Vonnegut2506

Have you never healed a normal pug dungeon before? Let me tell you some of the ways you can do less than 10k damage because I see it all the time.

Option 1: dps with a 1H + Shield so not only do you not do any dps, but you also keep taunting off the tank on the off chance there is one. I had one of these guys last week; I couldn't figure out why the tank and dps both had 40k health with a shield equipped. The two dps combined did around 12k dps on boss fights.

Option 2: have a bow out and only heavy attack in between roll dodging any time a monster even looks at you. I had one of these today. I thought I had accidentally brought Bastian with me into the dungeon as much roll dodging as I got to see each fight.

Option 3: lay down one aoe skill and then just stand there until it runs out; re-apply if needed. I see this way too much for it not to be a new strategy that someone has put out there convincing people it is the best dps.

drunkendx

VaranisArano wrote: »

How is <10k DPS possible?

You don't spam light attacks.
You don't weave, either.
Potions? What potions? Be glad you have a food buff.
You don't have a rotation, or you execute it badly.
You don't have "a build" so much as you have just been playing around, wearing whatever armor looked cool, and using whatever skills and weapons looked fun.
You might have a "build" but it's not remotely optimized and you don't want to change it.
You don't have CP, or if you do, you've stuck them in whatever places looked good instead of what's useful.

I mean, you were a new player once, just like I was. We learned to do DPS. Most players with <10k DPS are new to the game, new to the Damage Dealer role, or don't care about changing their playstyle to deal more damage.

Most simple and accurate answer.

On my main I watch my DPS and am looking to perform better, but on my alts? DPS, is that something to eat? I mean currently I am farming surveys on alt that under performs tank idiotstien as DPS...

Bouldercleave

For me DPS just isn't all that important - As a group content - solo specialist, the only thing that matters is that I am still standing at the end of the fight. I would assume that people with super low DPS don't group a lot and just don't know that DPS is actually a thing.

I have soloed almost everything that can be soloed in the game ( damn you the few dungeons that have mechanics that you can't solo ) and I can tell you for a fact that the only thing that matters in a fight is who comes out of it alive...

phaneub17_ESO

I don't really care about having a rotation of skills and light attacks, I cast whatever dot or aoe ground effect is down and heavy attack in between to recharge my resource bars. It's the casual's lifestyle, I'm more into "ooh shiny!" than whacking buttons in specific order, hurting my fingers, and cramping my hands; I don't see the fun in that. If I want to play a rotation, I go back to WoW and play my Feral Druid managing dots, combo points, and finishing moves.

You're also using like 10 times more buffs than I ever will. Most of my gear sets are crafted or overland, like my casters are using 5pc Diamond's Victory, 4pc Elegant, and 3pc Willpower. My stamina characters have 5pc Heartland Conqueror, 5pc Shacklebreakers, and 2pc Agility. My Hybrids use 5pc Bahraha's Curse, 5pc Hist Whisperer, 2pc different weapons. A handful have monster sets, whatever combos I can gather off The Golden like Infernal Maw or Ilambris. Most are using either Tower or Mage mundus.

Not everyone is out to be the best or gear out in the most powerful sets, some of us like being easy going and do what we find fun!

kargen27

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

Have you never healed a normal pug dungeon before? Let me tell you some of the ways you can do less than 10k damage because I see it all the time.

Option 1: dps with a 1H + Shield so not only do you not do any dps, but you also keep taunting off the tank on the off chance there is one. I had one of these guys last week; I couldn't figure out why the tank and dps both had 40k health with a shield equipped. The two dps combined did around 12k dps on boss fights.

Option 2: have a bow out and only heavy attack in between roll dodging any time a monster even looks at you. I had one of these today. I thought I had accidentally brought Bastian with me into the dungeon as much roll dodging as I got to see each fight.

Option 3: lay down one aoe skill and then just stand there until it runs out; re-apply if needed. I see this way too much for it not to be a new strategy that someone has put out there convincing people it is the best dps.

That player with the bow will almost always stand behind the healer. If the healer (often me) moves to have a better angle to heal all the "archer" repositions behind the healer again as if someone told them the safest place is behind the healer. Even if I tell them stay between me and the boss and I will keep you buffed and alive forever they take up position to the rear. Had one tell me they do more damage the farther away they are.

PeacefulAnarchy

kargen27 wrote: »

Had one tell me they do more damage the farther away they are.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Long_Shots
The skill doesn't give a distance for the max, and distances are hard to tell, so not surprising someone would say that.

VaranisArano

Edited: NVM, misread thread title

markulrich1966

two weeks ago I had a discussion concerning the Medusa set.

He had some beginners questions, so I wondered how he knew about Medusa - guess he read somewhere "it is meta".

I could not convince him though to farm Mothers Sorrow first, as this should be the base set, and Medusa afterwards to optimize further (crit chance vs crit damage).

I also could not convince him to use Medusa jewelry and staves, or jewelry + chest and legs.

He insisted on wearing full heavy armor because he would lose armor bonus with light armor.

So - people read somewhere simple "annswers" or "recommendations" like "use Medusa, it's BiS", but have no real understanding how the game works. The result are such low DPS players.

M0ntie

The game doesn’t tell you how much damage you are doing. Console has no combat metrics or add ons, and new PC players won’t know what add-ons to install. Dummies to test your dps take a LOT of crafting to get or you have to buy them with crowns. Game doesn’t tell you what is enough dps for the content. It doesn’t guide you to create a rotation.
So it isn’t surprising at all that some players are doing very low dps and don’t know it.

I think a great enhancement to the game would be that it did tell you how much dps you do, like Hodor’s does. It could be an Option, like the great new one that shows skill cool downs.

Kwoung

markulrich1966 wrote: »

two weeks ago I had a discussion concerning the Medusa set.

He had some beginners questions, so I wondered how he knew about Medusa - guess he read somewhere "it is meta".

I could not convince him though to farm Mothers Sorrow first, as this should be the base set, and Medusa afterwards to optimize further.

I also could not convince him to use Medusa jewelry or staves, or jewelry + chest and legs.

He insisted on wearing full heavy armor because he would lose armor bonus with light armor.

So - people read somewhere simple "annswers" or "recommendations like "use Medusa, it's BiS", but have no real understanding how the game works. The result are such low DPS players.

Pretty much that. There is even another thread on the front page here right now asking this set or that, like it is a simple answer. I am pretty sure that even asking that question says the person doesn't have more than the slightest knowledge of how ESO works, and is coming from a WoW standpoint, where Set A > Set B, just because it is. The system ESO employed and all that goes into it to achieve even halfway decent DPS, is pretty much the opposite of almost every other game ever. Most other games, you slap on the meta set and you do more damage, regardless of skills, passives, CP, casting order or anything else... This is why you see players in ESO doing the absolute worst possible damage, because they are basically playing by the rules of an entirely different game, and playing this one at anything more than the most basic level, is entirely to complicated and to much effort for your average player.

I know that ZOS likes to state that the "casual" player is the largest part of their playerbase. But IMHO, this is a self inflicted issue, if players could git gud without having to resort to spreadsheets, crazy calculations, microsecond timing on skills and whatnot, there would probably be a lot more players functioning at a higher level. When I started playing, I sucked and I do not like to look things up on the Internet, as I feel it detracts from the game. But in ESO, if you aren't using a "build" and fully understand what makes it work, you are never gonna git gud, and asking a player who just wants to log in, kill stuff, get their XP/Loot/Whatever to jump through all those hoops, is really asking a bit much. Most have jobs, school and other stuff that they have to work for, and a game is generally not on the list of things to work for, you log into relax and have fun.

tonyblack

The parse was made on trial dummy with all possible buffs and debuffs you’d expect to have in organized vet trial group. But complains about low damage like that coming from dungeon pugs, not trial guilds, isn’t it? When I do dungeons with randoms the only thing I would expect to see is major breach and even that is not always the case. If you get tank and healer with selfish sets, with no buffs and no damage skills and 2 dd who have no clue how to play their role either you’ll see low numbers like that. Pretty sure in same conditions your damage would be in 4-10k range if you tried it on 3mil dummy which is more realistic for dungeon and solo play. And yes, anything below 40k on trial dummy is extremely low dps which transates to >15k in actual content.

Amottica

VaranisArano wrote: »

How is <10k DPS possible?

You don't spam light attacks.
You don't weave, either.
Potions? What potions? Be glad you have a food buff.
You don't have a rotation, or you execute it badly.
You don't have "a build" so much as you have just been playing around, wearing whatever armor looked cool, and using whatever skills and weapons looked fun.
You might have a "build" but it's not remotely optimized and you don't want to change it.
You don't have CP, or if you do, you've stuck them in whatever places looked good instead of what's useful.

I mean, you were a new player once, just like I was. We learned to do DPS. Most players with <10k DPS are new to the game, new to the Damage Dealer role, or don't care about changing their playstyle to deal more damage.

Years ago, in a different game, there was a raid fight where everyone had to defeat a boss solo. We were doing a social run for anyone in the guild so this was on normal mode. One player had this wonky build where nothing enhanced their damage and they could not defeat their boss, so we could not proceed.

A player familiar with their class talked them through respecing, told them their rotation, and then he was able to defeat his boss without an issue.

I think ESO has a more challenging combat but my point is you are correct.

Vylaera

The worst thing I've ever seen is someone using Volley from Bow as a spammable. Just casting it over and over, not even letting it deal a tick of damage before recasting, until they're out of stamina.

the next worst thing I've ever seen were two people, both the same level so probably friends, only using heavy attacks, not even properly geared up, queued as DPS. I was on my healer, the tank left (can't blame him), so I had to slot damage abilities and solo the dungeon in my healer gear with them following me.

I just don't understand how even people who ostensibly try to be a DPS still can't pull it off. Even in my healer gear with unoptimized skills, I was still getting average DPS according to combat metrics. I mean, Vet DLC dungeons and Trials can be completed with no CP, so that's not an excuse.

Vevvev

As a new player over 5 years ago I spammed Ambush on a hybrid nightblade. 7k DPS on the high end.... heh. And my primary set ((My only set mind you)) was the Dark Brotherhood set that gave bonus damage after a Blade of Woe assassination. And I think that set was towards the end of my time using that character before I took a break from the game and came back with a new character that was a Sorc.

bmnoble

I remember when I first started was obsessed with wearing heavy armour and sets that maximized survive ability(Orgnum's scales, Vampires kiss), use to spam Cleave and reverse slash, had barely any crit chance, next to no meaningful sustain at all, my first dungeon helping out a guild mate with was normal Fang Lair you can just imagine how useful I was to the group, especially since I took the tank role with that set up no taunt what so ever.

Of course that experience caused me to hold off doing group dungeons for awhile since I thought they were all going to be on that difficulty level, I made a point to look into guides and get an understanding of how I wanted my build set up.

Always use to wonder how other players were melting stuff in overland. Now I am that player melting stuff in overland, even soloed a few of the base game dungeons, still not that confident at my DPS in group content though mostly stick to player a tank or healer in group content.

Kwoung

bmnoble wrote: »

Always use to wonder how other players were melting stuff in overland. Now I am that player melting stuff in overland, even soloed a few of the base game dungeons, still not that confident at my DPS in group content though mostly stick to player a tank or healer in group content.

I can say fairly confidently, that if you are actually concerned about your DPS, you are probably fine to group with others and can carry your weight. Its generally the ones who aren't concerned, or simply think because they slapped on some meta gear... that are horrible and get out DPSed by the tank.

lauykanson

Take off your meta fake sets, put julianos, spinner and a 2-piece monster set on then redo the parse on a 3 mil dummy and we can proceed to talk about the rest. But chances are this is a bait thread anyway.

FeedbackOnly

Worst cases are usually wrong attribute assortment or lacking food.

Troodon80

As much as I appreciate why the trial dummy exists, comparing what you can do with just light attacks on that versus what you can and likely will get in PUG dungeons simply isn't realistic and too many people make silly comparisons like this. You simply cannot compare the perfect or ideal scenario to PUGs. Try again on a 3m dummy with just Major Breach and your own self buffs and check what your light attacks do. While you're at it, take off Bahsei/Kinras/Kilt and put on a couple crafted or easily obtainable overland sets. That's more realistic for PUGs.

That also makes the assumption that the average player is actually spamming light attacks on cooldown (700ms). I don't know how many PUG dungeons you're logging, but in my experience light attacks are not even one per second (GCD), disregarding the weaving aspect.

How can damage be that low? Many, many reasons. Speccing into health, using heavy armour meaning lower critical rating, less penetration, etc., not utilising appropriate sets for a given spec, having no real grasp of a rotation, using skills because they "look cool" or "thematic," having no concept of mechanics and potentially spending the better part of a fight roleplaying as a carpet.

DormantOne

On both those parses you have a lot more buffs than people have in common dungeon group.

FluffWit

No, you can't hit 17k doing nothing but light attacks without champion points and gear sets. Thinking you can is just elitist

Tanked my random daily (Normal Direfrost) with a pug like this today.

It didnt bother me. It's an easy dungeon. Theres no real dps check. It was more fun to do it with these guys- including me jumping up and down at various points to show them where to go, then to run it with a couple of hard hitters who ran ahead every fight and burned through it in 10 minutes. I was doing my job, healer was doing their job, dps were doing their job- albeit pretty poorly.

I only do one dungeon a day so mediocre players don't bother me. I think it's people who run multiple normal dungeons a day trying to farm pointless lootboxes who get cranky.

Normal is for people to have fun.

Colecovision

It looks like you drained a dummy down to a million so that bloodthirsty and the DW execute passives would kick in. Then you stopped long enough to clear CM. Then attacked the trial dummy for insane buffs that don't apply to actual fighting in dungeons and then light attacked the dummy that was ready for execute.

Can you post the build so that I can light attack a dummy at full health and see if I can mirror the results without trial buffs?

Edit: it looks like the initial level of cheese was not actually used here, but using a trail dummy for samples and asking about how people are below 10k is still not a good faith question.

azjuwelz

The soul reaper is a trial dummy.

But the light attacks without enchantments or passives was more like 14k. Also 80 percent crit chance? 100 percent penetration? 5000 spell damage? That doesn't happen by accident.

Now put on some mismatched sets so there's no 5 piece bonuses, no mythic item, and divide your attribute points evenly between mag, Stam, and health and then try this.

Oh and no food, only trash pots. Now you're looking at a lot of those inexperienced players.

Troodon80

markulrich1966 wrote: »

I also could not convince him to use Medusa jewelry and staves, or jewelry + chest and legs.

He insisted on wearing full heavy armor because he would lose armor bonus with light armor.

This is remarkably familiar. This is a run I had with someone not too long ago. Completely anonymous and not naming names.



I've actually seen this sort of thing a lot, @markulrich1966. I can't tell if this is just people seeing "Medusa+XYZ" mentioned by content creators, guild mates, friends, etc. and then misunderstanding the armour passives.

Also, shout out to the gold restoration staff wielding DD who doesn't have any restoration skills slotted. I'm not even going to touch on anything else in this screenshot and it's not meant to mock or shame anyone's playstyle. You do you. This is just in comparison and contradiction to the the OP's screenshots -- this is what I would call the "average," and even this is the higher end of that average; they even have two five piece sets and it's in Divines. I would be curious to see what sort of DPS you can get from this "build" using just light attacks on a 3m dummy with only Major Breach. Just a hunch, but it's probably not 17k.

Grandchamp1989

17k single target is actually quite high for most PUGs I have played with, even in vet.

I have seen people in vet do 7-8k DPS, they usually just use their spammable with unoptimized gear.

There's a huuuuuuuge disparity in ESO between the top and the bottom.

DPS requirements for trials have also gone up even though the trials have been nerfed over time.

When I first started doing trials the guild requirement for vSS was 45k then it got changed to 60k and now I see 80k entry for regular vSS. almost a 100% increase in requirement for the exact same trial?!
Remember asking for a vAS+2 and they wanted 100k DDs lol

Sometimes it feels like (to me) that many guild players live in a bubble, they should skip their premades some more, and dip into the real world of casuals. Do some random vets in solo que. Maybe a few craglorn vet trials.

I know Zos wanted to raise the floor.. But I don't feel like the floor is raised very much IMO.

NerfSeige

Lol, lot of casuals and roleplayers here. Main reason (imo) why we won't get a harder overland and more hardcore pvp stuff.

DonHardstyle

You should realize that not everyone cares about their DPS. People are just having fun in the game.

Myself I do 105k on my magsorc. I still think that's to low and try to improve. I always end up doing between 50-70% of the DPS in random pug dungeons. As fake healer. Accept that others wont do the same DPS as you and you are good.

Besides that in dungeons, you don't even need that big of a DPS.

Instead of posting something like this, offer then help. I doubled, or even tripled DPS of others with just simple tips.

Besides that, your screenshot doesn't say an single thing. you parsed for 50 seconds, not even doing 1% of the health of that Dummy.

Curryganz

that is untrue, when I started as sorc knowing absolutely nothing about builds and rotation I was lucky to even reach 10k. 17k now? I wish