There is nothing wrong with DM being part of BGs. The objective is simply to kill others in a DM match. However, the random
BG queue should not be weighted to DMs by the DM-only queue.

Amottica wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with DM being part of BGs.

Isn't the 3-team format inappropriate? It's always a race to kill the weakest team. Especially when a team is missing players.

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with DM being part of BGs.

Isn't the 3-team format inappropriate? It's always a race to kill the weakest team. Especially when a team is missing players.

That is not the premise the OP has put forth. I try to not derail a thread by speaking to something else.

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with DM being part of BGs.

Isn't the 3-team format inappropriate? It's always a race to kill the weakest team. Especially when a team is missing players.

That is not the premise the OP has put forth. I try to not derail a thread by speaking to something else.

It's okay, you're not derailing. This thread is for discussing how the Battleground system is inappropriate for Team Deathmatch for many reasons. One of them is the 3-team format. Hence the square peg in a round hole.

That's far more true for objective modes. Imagine a mode that literally encourages avoiding the other two teams as they fight over an objective. That's bgs for objective modes. Run away from the fight because actually fighting for the flag or the relic would hurt your chances of winning. What a great system /s.

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

That's far more true for objective modes. Imagine a mode that literally encourages avoiding the other two teams as they fight over an objective. That's bgs for objective modes. Run away from the fight because actually fighting for the flag or the relic would hurt your chances of winning. What a great system /s.

I've posted about this before. This is how it should work.

3 teams @ 8 players each

• Chaosball

2 teams @ 12 players each (new maps needed)

• Capture the Relic
• Domination

Remove from Battlegrounds

• Crazy King (this actively encourages players to avoid combat which has no place in battlegrounds)
• Team Deathmatch (this should be Arenas / Group Duels)

I hope this will never happen in eso

The decision to revert back to the old queue system takes us in the opposite direction of progress and back into a negative feedback loop. What do you think will happen? A non-trivial amount of players will ignore objectives and deathmatch anyways. Some players are talking about spawn camping as a form of protest. Others see no future for competitive ESO PvP.

It's clear the goal for battlegrounds is a casual, small-scale PvP experience. Unfortunately, both Cyrodiil and IC are not competitive. If you take a competitive deathmatch player and throw them into Cyrodiil or IC, it's going to be a bloodbath until they get overwhelmed by 10+ players and/or lag.

What options do we have remaining?



Group duels aren't a replacement for competitive Team Deathmatch. Imagine having to restart the duel after every wipe. Imagine having no scoreboard or ranked ladder. Sounds awful. If they give us group duels, I'll take them. I'll even appreciate some form of improvement for ESO PvP. But it's not ideal.

If by arena, you mean wide open maps, I strongly disagree.

There's a reason no one fights in the middle of Istirus Outpost. In a game like ESO with no ability cooldowns, fights are very imbalanced if there's nowhere to kite or no cover to LoS around. Fights would devolve even further into a stalemate-y standoff until one team has negate up.

I really don't understand why ZoS can't just remove deathmatch from the "random queue", that way people who want to queue for deathmatch can queue for deathmatch and people who don't can queue for objectives. Players just want to be able to play what they want to play, it shouldn't be this hard to give them that choice.

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

That's far more true for objective modes. Imagine a mode that literally encourages avoiding the other two teams as they fight over an objective. That's bgs for objective modes. Run away from the fight because actually fighting for the flag or the relic would hurt your chances of winning. What a great system /s.

I've posted about this before. This is how it should work.

3 teams @ 8 players each

• Chaosball

2 teams @ 12 players each (new maps needed)

• Capture the Relic
• Domination

Remove from Battlegrounds

• Crazy King (this actively encourages players to avoid combat which has no place in battlegrounds)
• Team Deathmatch (this should be Arenas / Group Duels)

Again, to the main point, DM is appropriate for BGs./

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

The decision to revert back to the old queue system takes us in the opposite direction of progress and back into a negative feedback loop. What do you think will happen? A non-trivial amount of players will ignore objectives and deathmatch anyways. Some players are talking about spawn camping as a form of protest. Others see no future for competitive ESO PvP.

It's clear the goal for battlegrounds is a casual, small-scale PvP experience. Unfortunately, both Cyrodiil and IC are not competitive. If you take a competitive deathmatch player and throw them into Cyrodiil or IC, it's going to be a bloodbath until they get overwhelmed by 10+ players and/or lag.

What options do we have remaining?


Group duels aren't a replacement for competitive Team Deathmatch. Imagine having to restart the duel after every wipe. Imagine having no scoreboard or ranked ladder. Sounds awful. If they give us group duels, I'll take them. I'll even appreciate some form of improvement for ESO PvP. But it's not ideal.

I agree that a separate DM queue that relies on the random queue to fill it's matches and hence skewing the results of the random queue to the DM is a bad idea. Might as well have only a DM queue. Oh, Zenimax already tried that.

But there is no need for Zenimax to create a new system and entirely new maps for a DM. They merely need to either have a totally random queue or completely sever the ties between the DM queue and random queue so they are totally separate with a chance of a DM queue still being in the random since it is a bonified BG. If one queue has a long wait, so be it as the players made their choice.

I do not think Zenimax does this due to a low population for BGs. This last bit is speculation ofc.

If ZOS added ranked arenas to this game it would be the best move possible. PvP players have been starving for content, hundreds of thousands of players have just quit New World, balance is the best it’s ever been. It would really be a simple implementation and would offer so much to the game.

3v3 and 12v12 pvp modes would be awesome.