Really starting to dislike overcharge. Please read and please change it!

ImaginaryDimension · April 2014

I thought the entire idea of this game was that we could create ANY type of character, wear any type of armor, wield any type of weapon and play the game as we see fit, whether that is a mage with a greatsword in medium armor, a dk full tank spec with 7 peices of heavy armor or a nightblade with a staff and light armor.

The whole point of this incredible system is it allows us to create any type of character we wish but the stat overcharge feature is really really forcing me to build my character into things I don't like.

My dragon knight is now level 41 and I have been overcharged in armor and health since about level 25 and it's really annoying me. I'll be wearing a level green 35 peice of heavy armor and when I change it to a blue level 40 peice of heavy armor, I'll only gain 3 points of armor because I am already at max armor.... 3 points?!

So guess what? The game is forcing me to put medium or light armor on which gives me useless stats like magika that I never use. I want to be able to put 49 points into health and still not be capped, I want to be able to wear 7 peices of heavy armor and still not be capped. The overcharge should only occur when your characters stats really are at the absolute limit.

If I want to run around the battlefield with 6k hp but barely any dps then why can't I? If I want to be a nuke cannon but have only 2k hp then why can't I do that?

The overcharge thing really takes away a key element of "playing the game the way you want" and I'd very much like to see this changed.

I have submitted a feedback form ingame as well but it would probably help my cause if some people here agreed so I just want to see what other people think.

Vlas · April 2014

Wow, what a useless build.

Varivox9 · April 2014

I think it is necessary unfortunatly. Making yourself unkillable would be incredibly imbalanced in dungeons. They didn't add it to troll you, they added it because no one should be able to not die or 1 shot everything.

If you have 0 dps in PvP....wtf are you even there for except to leech off of others? If you do nothing but die in PvP, wtf are you even there for exect to feed others?

Oogaci · April 2014

Overcharging, soft caps, hard caps... this is all nothing new to MMOs.
Pretty standard fare.

deathly809_ESO · April 2014

Why don't you put more into stamina...

gc_fan666_ESO · April 2014

The build aside i can agree with the problems with overcharge. When i play a full heavy armor tank I'm over charged without even trying. Give us passives in heavy armor to increase armor and look at that i don't even need all 7 pieces to be maxed out. It makes no sense to give us passive abilities to increase max armor/health just to cap us below what we can actually be at.

ImaginaryDimension · April 2014

Varivox9 wrote: »

I think it is necessary unfortunatly. Making yourself unkillable would be incredibly imbalanced in dungeons. They didn't add it to troll you, they added it because no one should be able to not die or 1 shot everything.

If you have 0 dps in PvP....wtf are you even there for except to leech off of others? If you do nothing but die in PvP, wtf are you even there for exect to feed others?

Because if you've ever pvp'ed in a roaming group and not in a zerg it's nice to have someone who can lead the fight, be the initiator, the person who charges into 15 people causing chaos and pins down some of the players using talons, snares ect.

Every mmo I have ever played as a heavy tankers who's job it is, even in pvp is to initiate the fight, dive into a group of enemies and pin some of them down for the dps.

Also isn't ap based on contribution? If you're in group doing nothing but leeching then you'll get barely any ap. If you contribute, do damage, heal, use balistas ect then you'll gain way more ap.

deathly809_ESO wrote: »

Why don't you put more into stamina...

Because I don't want to. This is the entire point of a game that allows you to "do what you want"

deathly809_ESO · April 2014

ImaginaryDimension wrote: »

deathly809_ESO wrote: »

Why don't you put more into stamina...

Because I don't want to. This is the entire point of a game that allows you to "do what you want"

You can do whatever you want, you can wear all the gear you want. If I wear 3-tons of armor I don't expect to be as mobile as if I just wore a 100lbs. Should they start limiting your movement?

Auric_ESO · April 2014

ye gods, there's that line again "be whatever I want" and "immersion" everyone seems to think that means they can do anything they feel like without rhyme or reason behind it, yes that's the words they used. They lied, lets face it. They should have been saying the whole time "within the contraints necessary to make a good MMO and pvp or pve enviroment" but that's not good marketing. So everyone bashes ZOS with those words. They said I can be anything I want to be, I want to be a werewolf and vampire dunmer archer dragon knight in ebonheart pact with assassins brotherhood without buying the explorers pack and I want pink hair and one of those anime big swords. But they said I could be anything I want!!!" I want to say shame on you for thinking that you can be anything you want without constraints, of course there are going to be some limitations on what you can do and what you cant, but in principal I understand where you are coming from, I jsut think its kind of silly to expect it.

Auric_ESO · April 2014

and to look at it from the other side, they aren't stopping you from putting everything in stamina and armor. You just don't like diminishing returns. Technically they are not stopping you from making whatever build you want, its just not turning out how you want it to.

AlliN · April 2014

surely as a tank you would not benefit from wearing partial medium armor for stamina regen and melee critical, to make those bashes infinite and harder hitting.

Please...

also, newsflash. Overchage works the same way for everyone, so, if you stack HP, you will same HP ammount as any other player who stacks HP. If you pause your rant for a moment, you'll find that DAMAGE is also overchagring. So, if both are overcharging, its the same as neither would - so, it's not like you are gimping your stat and other player gets all the benefits of advantage. If he stacks the stat that counters your HP, it's effectiveness remains the same, becase he is also under the influence of overcharge.

Dominulf · April 2014

Auric_ESO wrote: »

and to look at it from the other side, they aren't stopping you from putting everything in stamina and armor. You just don't like diminishing returns. Technically they are not stopping you from making whatever build you want, its just not turning out how you want it to.

Do you like hearing yourself speak?

Enough semantics.

You are shoehorned into playing hybrids in this game.

Auric_ESO · April 2014

Not particularly. Though this is typing. I'm just not really into overly literal expectations that came with the words "play anything you want" I really did understand that there would be some limits. Additionally I did say I understood that they lied to you what they said it and really wish they hadnt harped on those words so much because some very literal minded people keep using it against them. Thier own fault for using those words. They really should have not used so much marketing tag lines and jsut sat down and explained that they have a very open class/skill system but its not limitless.

Auric_ESO · April 2014

so: enough thread derailment.

What are the good points to a softcap?

What are the bad?

Anyone have an idea on why zos implemented one. OP jsut says he doesnt like it because its limiting his build. That's only an aesthetics argument.

What are the mechanics of it as that's probably why its in the game. I know WHAT it is, but WHY is the question. It cant be there just to make it easier for everyone to get a perfect suit so they can have a level playing field. There's got to be something more to it. Probably the other forums discuss it.

ImaginaryDimension · April 2014

Auric_ESO wrote: »

so: enough thread derailment.

What are the good points to a softcap?

What are the bad?

Anyone have an idea on why zos implemented one. OP jsut says he doesnt like it because its limiting his build. That's only an aesthetics argument.

What are the mechanics of it as that's probably why its in the game. I know WHAT it is, but WHY is the question. It cant be there just to make it easier for everyone to get a perfect suit so they can have a level playing field. There's got to be something more to it. Probably the other forums discuss it.

Well one of the clear mechanics is to make dungeons more challenging. After all if your tank has 6k hp, tanking dungeons is going to be a peice of cake. So there is that, but there is not much else I can think of.

If we look at pvp, no matter how many points you put into magika, a sorc for example isn't going to do 2k crits to other players. It just isn't going to happen. I know lots of people in my guild who hate that they can't play a nuke sorc or an outrageous strong tank.

Anyway I think players should start hitting the stat caps when they're V10 in epic / legendary armor. Not when they're level 40 wearing green. All I'm asking for is to not be penalised for wearing the armor I want and for making the build I want.

cubansyrusb16_ESO · April 2014

Auric_ESO wrote: »

and to look at it from the other side, they aren't stopping you from putting everything in stamina and armor. You just don't like diminishing returns. Technically they are not stopping you from making whatever build you want, its just not turning out how you want it to.

I dont think for me the DR are an issue but more the cap is to low.

I wear full heavy armour with impenetrable traits so no armour % traits and i am well over the cap for a VR7 with 2.1k armour.

The overcharge needs to be raised a little bit, why offer the option to wear heavy armour if it does not benefit you to wear heavy armour.

Now my armour is only rare quality crafted ... imagine legendary ? what would be the point if so much is wasted.

Auric_ESO · April 2014

so...lets take your arguement: you'd LIKE to have no caps but still challenging encounters so encounters would have to scale depending on the stat distrubution on your tank and maybe your dps. sounds hard. Perhaps instead of just telling them to change it (your thread title) you give them a suggestion instead of just remove it because as you said you cant have people making immortal tanks, that wouldnt be fun.

I know personally I dont watch my caps even though I have the softcaps addon (that's kinda odd isnt it?) and I'll just worry about it when I start hitting 50+

ImaginaryDimension · April 2014

cubansyrusb16_ESO wrote: »

Auric_ESO wrote: »

and to look at it from the other side, they aren't stopping you from putting everything in stamina and armor. You just don't like diminishing returns. Technically they are not stopping you from making whatever build you want, its just not turning out how you want it to.

I dont think for me the DR are an issue but more the cap is to low.

I wear full heavy armour with impenetrable traits so no armour % traits and i am well over the cap for a VR7 with 2.1k armour.

The overcharge needs to be raised a little bit, why offer the option to wear heavy armour if it does not benefit you to wear heavy armour.

Now my armour is only rare quality crafted ... imagine legendary ? what would be the point if so much is wasted.

Exactly this! There is no way on Earth I'm going to spent 50k making my epic armor legendary to gain 10 points more armor. So like I was saying in my OP, we're being penalised for chosing what armor to wear.

Cry_Wolfe · April 2014

its entirely possible that the soft caps will be moved over time, up or down.

Sure i Wish I had more mana regen, but I completely understand the need to stop min-maxer builds ruining game balance; why? what? when? how?

"this is not a single player Elder Scrolls Game."

In Elder Scrolls your build doesn't affect anyone but yourself, having an infinite mana build with massive +spell damage is fine. Having an heavy armor, 2 hander orc that never takes more than 2% damage from any source other than environmental damage (falling/drowning) is also fine in a single player game.

To port that over to ESO wouldn't work.

Not unless you invoke RPG standard of Payoffs. Sure lets allow you to have all the armor you want, lets also give that armor a weight value and make it slow you down. Sure lets let you stack HP, but now we'll need to counter that, so we're making DoT damage percentile. What's this? everyone is using DoT builds and stacking spell resist?... dayum ...

I'd hazard that many combat systems were thought up and in the end Zos settled on a system that has a built in "+min/maxer resist"... because ... PvP happens... and tuning group content around one or two builds destroys any variety in build choice.

So to summarize; the reason you can't have your min/max build is because it would make it the only viable build.. so while You might think it's unfair, its better for everyone else that doesnt have a hard on for single build games.

Auric_ESO · April 2014

so your feedback is to increase the caps. Sounds reasonable but I dont know how that effects the rest of the game. But ZOS would. /feedback it and hopefully some others will chime in.

Anyone know if there are hardcaps? Or jsut diminishing returns on anything above softcaps?

UrQuan · April 2014

Overcharge is there for a very good reason. Without it only skew builds would be viable. If you had a relatively balanced build and you went up against a tank skew you'd have essentially zero chance, because you wouldn't be able to do enough damage to get past his armour and health.

With overcharge there's a relatively level playing field. Jacks of all trades are viable. Skews are also viable, without overpowering the balanced builds. There's nothing forcing you not to play a skew. Heck, my main character has had his armour overcharged since pretty much his first post-shriven gear. I keep giving him better and heavier armour, and he does just fine. There's nothing forcing me to start giving him light or medium armour. I've got a mage who skews towards magicka and pretty much nothing else, and she does just fine. I've also got some more balanced characters, and they do just fine.

Also, I'm pretty sick of constantly hearing people whine about "the specific way I want to play is slightly less effective than some other ways - whaaaah, what happened to play how you want to play?" The bottom line is that you can play how you want to play. So far I've found that they've done a good job of making a wide variety of play styles viable. Of course, expecting to be able to play how you want to play and have it be viable is one thing (and fine). Expecting to be able to play how you want to play and have it be exactly as effective as every other way of playing is just ridiculous.

cubansyrusb16_ESO · April 2014

Auric_ESO wrote: »

so your feedback is to increase the caps. Sounds reasonable but I dont know how that effects the rest of the game. But ZOS would. /feedback it and hopefully some others will chime in.

Anyone know if there are hardcaps? Or jsut diminishing returns on anything above softcaps?

There are hard caps the overcharge turns red, you can hit it wearing epic quality heavy armour with reinforced trait ....

That kind of makes me think ... why offer an armour % increase trait with the caps so low ? XD

ImaginaryDimension · April 2014

OK maybe not remove it all together but certainly the cap needs to be higher. V12 is coming out soon. Everyone is hitting the caps at level 40 in blue gear so something needs to change.

Remember though that there can never be a win button build. You might max our magika as a sorc but but then you leave armor and health very vulnerable so 4 or 5 hits and you're dead. Not such a smart build now is it?

As a tank with 6k hp, sure he takes 1 minute to kill but you're fine, you have 5x his damage and will kill him before he can kill you. No build is perfect, every build has weaknesses. I am always debating whether to get rid of a certain skill for a CC skill or a heal skill or something. There are numerous possibilities and one of the possibilities I would like to roam with my 6 friends. Me the tank, 1 healer and 4 dps.

I have 4 CC skills and extended chains, the healer has nothing but heal skills slotted with light armor and the dps do their thing. When see a group of 15 guys, me being the initiator, I charge into them, CC the area, I'm being healed by the healer who is 25m away, the dps and nuking the CC'ed targets and it's just better group pvp.

Much more fun and team work based rather than a group of jack of all trades. A group with a dedicated tank/initiator, dedicated healer and 5 nuke dps will easily wipe a group of 15 random jack of all trades cos of the build teamwork.

Laura · April 2014

build how you wan't dosn't mean you can't use your brain and try to figure out how to make the build you are making work. You won't find many people doing the same thing but they usually at least do what they can to make it work

charles_crowe · April 2014

yanno, gear decay does play into this... the softcaps allow for you to retain maximum protection longer. pretty sure if oblivion and morrowind's "rust" weapon enchantments were brought in, EVERYONE would be overcharging their armor on purpose, just to have a buffer between their meaty parts and rusty-spreading implements of pain.

byghostlightrwb17_ESO · April 2014

I want, I want, you sound like Veruca Salt. (the girl not the band) You can do whatever you want, thats the reward for a flexible system but guess what every decision you make has consequences. Thats a bit like life really.

Shillen · April 2014

Diminishing returns have existed in a lot of MMOs. They just usually make it more transparent. ESO sticks it in your face and makes your stats orange and makes you think you're doing something wrong.

Shaun98ca2 · April 2014

I think the Soft Caps are in place to create a balance. Look at dungeons EVERYBODY gets hit and hurt in a dungeon. As often as we do there is a few options
1. Everybody BUT the tank constantly dies
2. Everybody can take hits quite well like they already do and then the tank damn near becomes a unkillable god.
3. We get the current system where everybody can takes hits but tanks can just sustain it a little longer.

Plus we have hybrids and those SHOULD be viable for "play how you want" so a Sorcerer wearing all Light Armor with S&S with bound armor slotted can make a good tank.

Or

ONLY Sorcerers with all Heavy Armor S&S bound armor can be a tank while everybody else just plain sucks.

Wreaken · April 2014

Auric_ESO wrote: »

ye gods, there's that line again "be whatever I want" and "immersion" everyone seems to think that means they can do anything they feel like without rhyme or reason behind it, yes that's the words they used. They lied, lets face it. They should have been saying the whole time "within the contraints necessary to make a good MMO and pvp or pve enviroment" but that's not good marketing. So everyone bashes ZOS with those words. They said I can be anything I want to be, I want to be a werewolf and vampire dunmer archer dragon knight in ebonheart pact with assassins brotherhood without buying the explorers pack and I want pink hair and one of those anime big swords. But they said I could be anything I want!!!" I want to say shame on you for thinking that you can be anything you want without constraints, of course there are going to be some limitations on what you can do and what you cant, but in principal I understand where you are coming from, I jsut think its kind of silly to expect it.

I disagree, a good game designer is able to make an MMO balanced without the requirement for soft caps. Soft caps are a lazy mans tool to balance, which evidently, does not work to balance the game in its current state anyway.

The soft caps in my honest opinion could be raised a fraction, I feel they are too low as the difference between say for example 1000 spell resistance and 2000 is almost not even recognizable and the same goes for Armour. I almost suspect that the values are not even mitigating damage correctly.

Masadi · April 2014

Soft caps are in every mmo, your just being picky, you need to remember this isn't a single player game its a MMO for a reason,

Being overpowered will call out of nerfs, if you don't like it you can always play a different game or change your characters to benefit from other stats.

mattias.snakeb16_ESO · April 2014

Your problem is your level by the sounds of it, im playing a DK tank n im finding I had to put 49 points into health and full heavy armour to hit the hard caps, im v6 atm I think by v10 I will be able to hit hp, armour and spell resist caps n still be able to grab 1-2 bits of light for an extra bit of magicka regen to keep my armour buff turned on