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How to counter inflation (PC)
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Hamiltonmath✭✭✭I haven't fully though this out, but maybe put MORE rings/necks at the golden, but at a higher price?
I feel like that would drop chromium prices too.
Maybe say 500k for your choice of 30 different rings weekly?
Just a thought; curious to see if you all agree or disagree.0 -
Hamiltonmath✭✭✭DonRavello wrote: »And right there is the actual source of your high prices, in games with a global AH what happens is nearly everything comes down to a reasonable price, except for very, very rare items like weapon/armour skins, because a much higher percentage of people engage in trading (there are no barriers), there is far greater price transparency and its actually more difficult to manipulate prices or supply as an individual or small group.
This is not correct. On PC there are addons, which make up for this shortage like TTC, where players can see the average prices and select the kiosk they want to buy from. On console these addons do not exist and prices are MUCH lower, but the system is the same. The source of the high prices is not the guild trader system (whatever good or bad it is), the source is: too much money going into the market and not enough money is going out.
How is there too much money going into the system on PC but not on consoles? Do they not get gold from login rewards, crafting writs and the other sources mentioned?
To be fair, writs are MUCH easier to do on pc than on console. I have 10 toons or so that I log onto daily for about a minute, collect the writ from the board and then immediately drop it off. I even have them premade so that I can literally go horse, board, other board, turn in, bank, horse. (ad nauseam)0 -
Hamiltonmath✭✭✭Dangerjoe1982 wrote: »Ash_In_My_Sujamma wrote: »Here is another way to counter inflation. Stop crowns for gold transactions. Or at least place a plafond on the echange rate.
Even better, make an ingame vendor that sells crowns for gold at a fixed rate. (and make crowns non tradable at the same time)
that way gold is taken out of circulation, instead of flipped between 2 players. The idea is to get gold out of circulation
I don't like it. Gold and crowns are too different things. And I mean you can get mad at ZOS for selling crowns, but I paid like 20 bucks for a game I've put 10,000 hours into; I feel like I've easily got my money worth and they still need to make money, so I support them with crown purchases every once in a while. There shouldn't be this strange "shame" in supporting a developer.0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Kiralyn2000 wrote: »Cap the number of toons doing writs per account and cap it fairly low, like 3 per account. This way, newer players don't suffer and inflation from writ gold pouring in daily is greatly reduced.
I would be fine with the gold reward being capped to even once a day, but definitely not the material rewards, as that and the resulting survey maps is how I get all my materials... Not to mention the price of Chromium would shoot up to even more insane prices if you cut the supply so drastically.
Just to toss around some numbers for fun:
One level capped character doing writs gets around 4k gold from the quest rewards.
Not all my characters are capped (I've got 8), so if I do writs on all of them, it's roughly 30k/day.
If I'm saving up gold to buy a 1mil house, it'd take me 33 days.
Cap that to 3 characters (12k/day), it'd take 83 days.
Cap it to 1 character, it'd take 250 days.
That seems a bit much, honestly.
Its closer to 6k with the new CP passives.
But I think you are kinda missing the point. Yes, writs are a great source of gold, but they are not the only way to make gold. They are also unique in that the gold they generate is New Money in the economy.
I am suggesting that they nerf the gold, but they buff the gold mat drop rates to compensate. It does carry the extra necessity that you need to actually sell some of your gold mats to other players if you want currency, but selling gold mats is the easiest thing to sell in this game. Priced fairly they sell immediately in zone chat. This has the advantage of moving gold between players rather than simply printing more of it.
Writs have made some players so wealthy that if they dropped a million gold on the ground, they wouldnt bother to pick it up. Even without writs, it just isnt that hard to make a million gold by any number of item farms that you sell to other players for gold. Even an inexperienced player could do it in a weekend if they put their mind to it. An experienced trader can do it in an afternoon.TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »Solution for Inflation- Add a Gold Temper Vendor who will sell appear once per week who will sell random gold mats for a fixed price at a maximum value of 10,000 gold, this would cap the price on the more expensive gold mats such as Dreugh Wax and Chromium Grains at 10,000, even a Chromium Plating will be capped to a price of 100,000 gold, plenty of people will buy hundreds of them until the market becomes flooded, see the Daedric Throne, Skulls for example, once the Market is flooded with Gold Tempers the value will plummet making it harder to make gold from these gold mats which inturn will kill off the flippers who are part responsible for the inflation, with people buying gold tempers not from other players but the gold vendor any spent gold will be lost to the void instead of being put back in circulation which will reduce the overall gold in the game which will inturn increase the value of gold which will lead to crown prices going down.
- Alternatively ZOS could make Gold Mats bound on pickup Only way you would get them is by buying them from the Gold Vendor, from Daily Writs or from extracting them from Raw Materials, if they are bind on pickup then people cannot make money from selling them, to avoid Crafters from selling Gold Weapons make it so tempering an item makes it bound.
I just can't get behind this and I don't think ZOS would either. You effectively destroy trade on any item you put in an NPC vendor. ZOS is also certainly reluctant to micro manage the economy that much. Don't get me wrong, it would make an effective gold sink, of which the game needs more, but I just dont see ZOS hard capping prices like this.
They came close with Alliance Potions, but notice, they didnt put them behind gold, they put them behind AP. I think that was very intentional on their part for this same reason. They dont want to directly cap prices on certain commodities.0 -
Kwoung✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Hamiltonmath wrote: »I haven't fully though this out, but maybe put MORE rings/necks at the golden, but at a higher price?
I feel like that would drop chromium prices too.
Maybe say 500k for your choice of 30 different rings weekly?
Just a thought; curious to see if you all agree or disagree.
Disagree, as there are only a few sets generally worth having. So unless one of those sets was on the vendor, it wouldn't help much if any, and when one of the was, it would just be a one time purchase which is not a long term solution. Also, raising the price on all the garbage sets would just chase off the few folks who do buy them. Lowering the price of the jewelry on the Golden dramatically however, would give an alternative way to obtain Chromium grains at a realistic price point through deconstruction, which would both remove gold from the game and help make Chromium more accessible.0 -
Aldoss✭✭✭✭✭
✭DonRavello wrote: »3. Sell transmute crystals. So, if you are a lazy but wealthy player you can still equip your 8th character with the Maelstrom weapon of choice (for ~500K plus upgrade mats). As could everyone just running random dungeons or pledges.- 1 Transmute Crystal for 10,000 gold
My only issue with this is that I think crystals should be a tradable item. A player spent real time doing something in game and got a reward from it.
If another player values their time differently, they should have the ability to purchase the commodity from another player who values the gold rather than the commodity.
It doesn't solve the gold sink, but it currently is a closed system that gives new players something extremely valuable, but likely aren't able to benefit from specifically because the crystals aren't tradable and they probably don't yet have the means, understanding, or capacity to use them.
Crystal sales should be one of the most prominent means for transfers of wealth from vet players to new players.
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Kwoung✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Crystal sales should be one of the most prominent means for transfers of wealth from vet players to new players.
Sadly, it would most likely just result in zone spammers buying Crystals at extremely low prices from newbies to take advantage of them, because noobies don't know the worth. Pretty much the same as they do now with the upgrade mats they "buy" for 1/4-1/2 price.
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Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The bag and bank space become useless gold sinks once players have the space. So in the end they do little to curb inflation.
The transmute crystals being sold for gold would have little impact. Those with deep pockets (lots of gold) do not waste their gold on such things they can easily get for free.
The 100k login reward does not seem to come that often and when it does it is only once in that month. Petty change and removing it would not have a noticeable effect on inflation. The gold cost/increased find in CP is also very small in the big picture of things.
The truth of the matter is if we increase the supply of items by harvesting and farming more then we will lower the cost of items and reduce inflation. Zenimax already gave us control over this. Each of us has a choice, pony up the gold or farm the items ourselves and even make some gold in the process.
While I agree with most of what you said, I do not believe introducing extra materials into the marketplace would effect much. Those of us with deep pockets would just feel a bit better about upgrading gear or doing Master Writs for a while, then the price would go up yet again because we buy so much. Removing gold from the economy is pretty much MMO economy 101 when it comes to combating mudflation, and was done pretty well in most games until ZOS decided that trading gold for crowns was cool... and let it run rampant in order to make crown sales, at the detriment of the in-game economy.
The price of materials we farm is a matter of supply and demand. If more was on the market then that would push the price down. This is a law of economics and not an opinion I am espousing.
Granted, as long as enough players are willing to pay the current prices they will pony up the gold instead of choosing to farm. Until that happens the player base is saying there is nothing wrong with the current prices.
Also, gold sinks that would be strong enough to push the price of materials down would also mean those who think the current prices of materials would still have problems buying them since the gold sinks are taking their gold away.
You are ignoring one of the basic tenets of economics... that governments control the amount of currency in the system at any given time. The US government destroys as much cash as it prints on a daily basis... thus keeping inflation in check. This is what makes the economy work so what you said will be true and supply/demand can control pricing.
On the various times that some governments simply printed money to inject more cash into their systems, they very quickly found that the main effect was rampant inflation. Such as happened in Mexico in 1987 when it spiked and then took a wheelbarrow full of peso's to buy a single loaf of bread, until they corrected the issue over the next 6 years or so.
It is impossible to stop inflation... as long as there is a never ending flow of new money into a system.
I am not ignoring anything. I’m fast, when government tightens the currency people can buy less. In other words, the same people struggling to buy Matts now will still struggle if gold was controlled effective in eso. However, gold sinks fail to do this well.0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Crystal sales should be one of the most prominent means for transfers of wealth from vet players to new players.
Sadly, it would most likely just result in zone spammers buying Crystals at extremely low prices from newbies to take advantage of them, because noobies don't know the worth. Pretty much the same as they do now with the upgrade mats they "buy" for 1/4-1/2 price.
It would also go against the notion that ZOS wants a gear treadmill. Transmutes are designed to supplement the gear grind not replace it. They are careful to put them behind specific types of content that force players to engage in the game (you are grinding without realizing you are grinding). PVP and Groupfinder are far and away the best ways to get them, AKA end game content.
I think they could certainly figure out a way to sell them for gold as a gold sink. Maybe limit them to something like 100 transmutes per account per week and a reasonably high price. You could put a coffer in the golden, and limit to one purchase per account.0 -
hafgood✭✭✭✭✭
✭The thing is - and something you are all forgetting - this is a PC issue. So any "solutions" to this non existent problem (too expensive? Farm them, or in the case of crowns buy them with your own money) have to be restricted to PC players - around 33% of the player base I believe.
Anything that affects consoles is unfair on us as our economies are a lot more stable.
But honestly it's only a problem when people want stuff now and can't afford it. Unlike in real world there is no money lender, so people have to save up for stuff and that seems to be an issue.
Can't afford something? Yell on the forums about how expensive stuff is or how bad inflation is. And it's clear from these threads that actually it isn't inflation. There have been many comments on these threads about how it's only gold mats / jewellery platings / crowns that are an issue, that other prices are as expected.
So it's not inflation, its supply and demand, and with the sticker book and ability to recreate sets for all our characters it's to be expected prices have gone up, housing mats - we've just had the new life festival that eats materials for breakfast and been given a new house.
So of course prices go up. And they will stay high because there is not a massive supply of these materials. So if you can't afford the prices your easy alternative is do activities that will get you the mats you need.
And for crowns? If people aren't buying them with cash then they can't sell them for gold. Which means supply is lower than demand so prices rise.
It's all basic economics0 -
Kwoung✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The bag and bank space become useless gold sinks once players have the space. So in the end they do little to curb inflation.
The transmute crystals being sold for gold would have little impact. Those with deep pockets (lots of gold) do not waste their gold on such things they can easily get for free.
The 100k login reward does not seem to come that often and when it does it is only once in that month. Petty change and removing it would not have a noticeable effect on inflation. The gold cost/increased find in CP is also very small in the big picture of things.
The truth of the matter is if we increase the supply of items by harvesting and farming more then we will lower the cost of items and reduce inflation. Zenimax already gave us control over this. Each of us has a choice, pony up the gold or farm the items ourselves and even make some gold in the process.
While I agree with most of what you said, I do not believe introducing extra materials into the marketplace would effect much. Those of us with deep pockets would just feel a bit better about upgrading gear or doing Master Writs for a while, then the price would go up yet again because we buy so much. Removing gold from the economy is pretty much MMO economy 101 when it comes to combating mudflation, and was done pretty well in most games until ZOS decided that trading gold for crowns was cool... and let it run rampant in order to make crown sales, at the detriment of the in-game economy.
The price of materials we farm is a matter of supply and demand. If more was on the market then that would push the price down. This is a law of economics and not an opinion I am espousing.
Granted, as long as enough players are willing to pay the current prices they will pony up the gold instead of choosing to farm. Until that happens the player base is saying there is nothing wrong with the current prices.
Also, gold sinks that would be strong enough to push the price of materials down would also mean those who think the current prices of materials would still have problems buying them since the gold sinks are taking their gold away.
You are ignoring one of the basic tenets of economics... that governments control the amount of currency in the system at any given time. The US government destroys as much cash as it prints on a daily basis... thus keeping inflation in check. This is what makes the economy work so what you said will be true and supply/demand can control pricing.
On the various times that some governments simply printed money to inject more cash into their systems, they very quickly found that the main effect was rampant inflation. Such as happened in Mexico in 1987 when it spiked and then took a wheelbarrow full of peso's to buy a single loaf of bread, until they corrected the issue over the next 6 years or so.
It is impossible to stop inflation... as long as there is a never ending flow of new money into a system.
I am not ignoring anything. I’m fast, when government tightens the currency people can buy less. In other words, the same people struggling to buy Matts now will still struggle if gold was controlled effective in eso. However, gold sinks fail to do this well.
TBH, I am historically not too overly concerned over the folks who struggle to buy stuff in game with gold, as that is generally a self inflicted issue because they choose to not partake in some key part of the game they should have, if they actually wanted a more well rounded game experience. They don't actually have much to do with the economy, as they are mostly outsiders looking in and hoping they can snap up a deal when they save up enough and one presents itself.
They do however complain a lot about it recently and rightly so, especially when they see those items they may have been able to afford at some point, slipping further and further away. Which is something I do care about, because it sucks to have the goal post moved constantly. In a stable economy, you can actually set your sights and save up for something, regardless of how meager your earning may be.
So while those of us actively participating in the economy are mostly unaffected because our earnings stay fairly consistent with the inflation, those who do not get left further and further behind, which is not good for the health of the game.0 -
Kiralyn2000✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »But I think you are kinda missing the point. Yes, writs are a great source of gold, but they are not the only way to make gold. They are also unique in that the gold they generate is New Money in the economy.
Not missing the point at all. And I'm well aware of the issues of New Money vs Gold Sinks.
I was just pointing out that, for people who don't participate in player trade, it's one of the only sources of money. (along with quest rewards, which is the same thing; and vendoring loot drops)I am suggesting that they nerf the gold, but they buff the gold mat drop rates to compensate. It does carry the extra necessity that you need to actually sell some of your gold mats to other players if you want currency, but selling gold mats is the easiest thing to sell in this game.
Only if you actually sell anything. And there's a bunch of us who don't.
Even if I wanted to do this dumb "trade guild" thing, I don't think there's many trade guilds out there who want someone joining for three hours every couple months to dump some gold mats, and then bail.
And the less said about spamming "WTS ______" in general chat, the better.
Been playing for five years, I've literally never sold or traded anything to another player.
Once every few months, I'll look up a particular Motif or Food Recipe on TTS to get for a master writ. The only buying I do.
"New Gold" is the only gold I have to spend, and I spend 98% of it at NPC vendors (buying houses, buying furniture, doing repairs).
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ixthUA✭✭✭✭✭So a lot of people are farming gold to become rich, then realize they are not rich, because gold itself has no use, so they try to devise a plan how to keep their current income / balance, but reduce item prices, so they are rich again. To me this does not seem smart or mature.
I haven't done a single writ or sold a single item to other players, just by picking raw resources (while doing quests, not farming) and refining them i got a full set of golden light armor and am halfway through 2nd set (heavy).0 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The bag and bank space become useless gold sinks once players have the space. So in the end they do little to curb inflation.
The transmute crystals being sold for gold would have little impact. Those with deep pockets (lots of gold) do not waste their gold on such things they can easily get for free.
The 100k login reward does not seem to come that often and when it does it is only once in that month. Petty change and removing it would not have a noticeable effect on inflation. The gold cost/increased find in CP is also very small in the big picture of things.
The truth of the matter is if we increase the supply of items by harvesting and farming more then we will lower the cost of items and reduce inflation. Zenimax already gave us control over this. Each of us has a choice, pony up the gold or farm the items ourselves and even make some gold in the process.
While I agree with most of what you said, I do not believe introducing extra materials into the marketplace would effect much. Those of us with deep pockets would just feel a bit better about upgrading gear or doing Master Writs for a while, then the price would go up yet again because we buy so much. Removing gold from the economy is pretty much MMO economy 101 when it comes to combating mudflation, and was done pretty well in most games until ZOS decided that trading gold for crowns was cool... and let it run rampant in order to make crown sales, at the detriment of the in-game economy.
The price of materials we farm is a matter of supply and demand. If more was on the market then that would push the price down. This is a law of economics and not an opinion I am espousing.
Granted, as long as enough players are willing to pay the current prices they will pony up the gold instead of choosing to farm. Until that happens the player base is saying there is nothing wrong with the current prices.
Also, gold sinks that would be strong enough to push the price of materials down would also mean those who think the current prices of materials would still have problems buying them since the gold sinks are taking their gold away.
You are ignoring one of the basic tenets of economics... that governments control the amount of currency in the system at any given time. The US government destroys as much cash as it prints on a daily basis... thus keeping inflation in check. This is what makes the economy work so what you said will be true and supply/demand can control pricing.
On the various times that some governments simply printed money to inject more cash into their systems, they very quickly found that the main effect was rampant inflation. Such as happened in Mexico in 1987 when it spiked and then took a wheelbarrow full of peso's to buy a single loaf of bread, until they corrected the issue over the next 6 years or so.
It is impossible to stop inflation... as long as there is a never ending flow of new money into a system.
I am not ignoring anything. I’m fast, when government tightens the currency people can buy less. In other words, the same people struggling to buy Matts now will still struggle if gold was controlled effective in eso. However, gold sinks fail to do this well.
TBH, I am historically not too overly concerned over the folks who struggle to buy stuff in game with gold, as that is generally a self inflicted issue because they choose to not partake in some key part of the game they should have, if they actually wanted a more well rounded game experience. They don't actually have much to do with the economy, as they are mostly outsiders looking in and hoping they can snap up a deal when they save up enough and one presents itself.
They do however complain a lot about it recently and rightly so, especially when they see those items they may have been able to afford at some point, slipping further and further away. Which is something I do care about, because it sucks to have the goal post moved constantly. In a stable economy, you can actually set your sights and save up for something, regardless of how meager your earning may be.
So while those of us actively participating in the economy are mostly unaffected because our earnings stay fairly consistent with the inflation, those who do not get left further and further behind, which is not good for the health of the game.
Everyone has the same access to items. Those that cannot find an item at a price they are willing to pay for being able to farm the same item for themselves or farm other items and sell them for gold until they can afford to buy what they really want.
Each player is fully capable of solving their own dilemma on this matter. A gold sink will do little to harm someone like myself. As I pointed out earlier the suggested changes are very minor, not to forget that they cannot stabilize the economy by design. Those that find current prices for what they want to be a challenge will find things to be a greater challenge when their gold is taken away from them for other purposes. That is the reality, plain and simple because supply and demand will continue to rule the day.
I do wonder why those who are upset about current prices for items do not spend more time farming what they want and get it for free.0 -
Kwoung✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The bag and bank space become useless gold sinks once players have the space. So in the end they do little to curb inflation.
The transmute crystals being sold for gold would have little impact. Those with deep pockets (lots of gold) do not waste their gold on such things they can easily get for free.
The 100k login reward does not seem to come that often and when it does it is only once in that month. Petty change and removing it would not have a noticeable effect on inflation. The gold cost/increased find in CP is also very small in the big picture of things.
The truth of the matter is if we increase the supply of items by harvesting and farming more then we will lower the cost of items and reduce inflation. Zenimax already gave us control over this. Each of us has a choice, pony up the gold or farm the items ourselves and even make some gold in the process.
While I agree with most of what you said, I do not believe introducing extra materials into the marketplace would effect much. Those of us with deep pockets would just feel a bit better about upgrading gear or doing Master Writs for a while, then the price would go up yet again because we buy so much. Removing gold from the economy is pretty much MMO economy 101 when it comes to combating mudflation, and was done pretty well in most games until ZOS decided that trading gold for crowns was cool... and let it run rampant in order to make crown sales, at the detriment of the in-game economy.
The price of materials we farm is a matter of supply and demand. If more was on the market then that would push the price down. This is a law of economics and not an opinion I am espousing.
Granted, as long as enough players are willing to pay the current prices they will pony up the gold instead of choosing to farm. Until that happens the player base is saying there is nothing wrong with the current prices.
Also, gold sinks that would be strong enough to push the price of materials down would also mean those who think the current prices of materials would still have problems buying them since the gold sinks are taking their gold away.
You are ignoring one of the basic tenets of economics... that governments control the amount of currency in the system at any given time. The US government destroys as much cash as it prints on a daily basis... thus keeping inflation in check. This is what makes the economy work so what you said will be true and supply/demand can control pricing.
On the various times that some governments simply printed money to inject more cash into their systems, they very quickly found that the main effect was rampant inflation. Such as happened in Mexico in 1987 when it spiked and then took a wheelbarrow full of peso's to buy a single loaf of bread, until they corrected the issue over the next 6 years or so.
It is impossible to stop inflation... as long as there is a never ending flow of new money into a system.
I am not ignoring anything. I’m fast, when government tightens the currency people can buy less. In other words, the same people struggling to buy Matts now will still struggle if gold was controlled effective in eso. However, gold sinks fail to do this well.
TBH, I am historically not too overly concerned over the folks who struggle to buy stuff in game with gold, as that is generally a self inflicted issue because they choose to not partake in some key part of the game they should have, if they actually wanted a more well rounded game experience. They don't actually have much to do with the economy, as they are mostly outsiders looking in and hoping they can snap up a deal when they save up enough and one presents itself.
They do however complain a lot about it recently and rightly so, especially when they see those items they may have been able to afford at some point, slipping further and further away. Which is something I do care about, because it sucks to have the goal post moved constantly. In a stable economy, you can actually set your sights and save up for something, regardless of how meager your earning may be.
So while those of us actively participating in the economy are mostly unaffected because our earnings stay fairly consistent with the inflation, those who do not get left further and further behind, which is not good for the health of the game.
Everyone has the same access to items. Those that cannot find an item at a price they are willing to pay for being able to farm the same item for themselves or farm other items and sell them for gold until they can afford to buy what they really want.
Each player is fully capable of solving their own dilemma on this matter. A gold sink will do little to harm someone like myself. As I pointed out earlier the suggested changes are very minor, not to forget that they cannot stabilize the economy by design. Those that find current prices for what they want to be a challenge will find things to be a greater challenge when their gold is taken away from them for other purposes. That is the reality, plain and simple because supply and demand will continue to rule the day.
I do wonder why those who are upset about current prices for items do not spend more time farming what they want and get it for free.
I have wondered the same thing for years. Myself, I do both crafting and other other dailies when in the mood and while I made my "fortune" selling tri-stat glyphs back in the day through a guild with very low requirements (mostly with bought Hakeijo's), I am rarely a consumer anymore. Just doing the crafting dailies on numerous characters brings in enough raw mats to sustain, supplies all the upgrade materials I ever need and leaves enough to bang out a hundred or two Master Writs every so often that I collected up, in case I need to add some new set stations to our guild hall or sell a transmute station for another quick million. I never go out and farm mats, and haven't as long as I can remember, I just collect survey maps now.
I also PVP for fun, and that pretty much covers my monster set needs, which I haven't spend a gold on in years or done many dungeons for... I just spend my AP which I also have tens of millions of banked at this point I think.
So yeah... not a lot of sympathy from me for those that cry they can't afford something either, as it is very easy to make tons of gold and/or cover your game needs with relatively little effort. My concern as I said above, is more for the overall health of the game, which quite honestly looks like it will simply implode at some point in the not to distant future. New World did the opposite and trashed their economy, thus chasing players off with extreme deflation (among other issues), while ESO seems to be headed towards the same result, just doing it with extreme inflation (among other issues) instead.0 -
kilroy5250 wrote: »What if there was a new NPC trader that started selling mats. ZOS could cap those mats relative to scarcity. The goal is not to kill trade, but to bring some foundational items back in check. It creates supply and sets a hard limit on costs.
.1% Rare $$$$$$ (Atherial dust)
Rare gold $$$$$ (Chromium)
Gold $$$$ (Wax, Kuta, ...)
Purple $$$
Blue $$
Green $
White .$
It can also function as a gold sink as those items are always in demand, and people will buy them if trader costs are way out there or people can't find them.
Guild traders can still get pretty rich as long as they stay under the cap. Once they creep over, then the NPC traders act as a supply flow and bring prices back in line.
Unique and rare items should stay market based. If you want the latest most shiny thing, you get to pay exorbitant prices for it. If you can wait, then you will get it for more reasonable costs.
Just an idea.
What will happen ? The one percent richest players which are dictating prices on the market will focus on something else then gold mats as gold mats will be trash. All players will use the golden equip including newbies. The inflation will continue on bigger scale thenbefore as golds which were used for expensive golden mats which ended partly burned up by master writs/EXPs and partly used for character bound items for the richest players (or what worse, on the black market where people pay real money to get lvl boost) will stay in the economy forever.
You could expect price hike of legendary master writs from 4-16k golds per piece to 500.000 - 1M per piece instantly.
Other prices will raise as well, for example craftable items, furniture and as for as gold/crowns ratio, it could end up somewhere in 1:10.000 rank very quicky as theseextra golds will try to find a new target where to spend.0 -
kind_hero✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@DonRavello while I agree with what you mean by this post, I am not sure if you realize that the prices you mention are peanuts money for people who own hundreds of million gold or more, and/or people who run several trading guilds who can play with the market, causing significant changes in base mats costs and so on.
The game has to be easy enough so an average player could afford certain things in a reasonable amount of game play. I am not saying it should rain with millions of gold for new players, but what you are suggesting will make it harder for casual players to acquire gold or save gold for something noteworthy. The very rich people will not be affected.
Their money sink should be these expensive guild spots they have, or maybe there should be a cap on the revenue someone can make in a certain amount of time. On the other hand, the devs could change the drop rates from now and then, one case that comes to my mind is hardwood (or mundane runes).[PC/EU] Tamriel Hero, Stormproof, Grand Master Crafter1 -
DonRavello✭✭✭@DonRavello while I agree with what you mean by this post, I am not sure if you realize that the prices you mention are peanuts money for people who own hundreds of million gold or more, and/or people who run several trading guilds who can play with the market, causing significant changes in base mats costs and so on.
The game has to be easy enough so an average player could afford certain things in a reasonable amount of game play. I am not saying it should rain with millions of gold for new players, but what you are suggesting will make it harder for casual players to acquire gold or save gold for something noteworthy. The very rich people will not be affected.
Their money sink should be these expensive guild spots they have, or maybe there should be a cap on the revenue someone can make in a certain amount of time. On the other hand, the devs could change the drop rates from now and then, one case that comes to my mind is hardwood (or mundane runes).
Thank you and the other participants of this thread for your ideas and insights. I am quite aware that the mega-rich will not be affected much, but quite some people would like to dump their millions to these additional options (I also received positive PMs), so why not make them available? There is no "one solution fits all" approach, I guess. Inflation will not be gone, but stopped from skyrocketing. That's the idea.
I would definitely invest my millions sitting in the bank to upgrade my bags and bank, and I would buy Transmute Crystals instead of running random dungeons, which are usually boring and a waste of time to me.0 -
omnidoh✭✭✭- I play about 8hrs/week.
- I do writs on 11 characters daily. (most of my playtime)
- I have 2.5 mill in the bank, and I only spend it on the weekly Lux vendor, which is a diminished cost because ZOS feels the need to trickle and skimp on new and old furnishings, instead of simply making them all available at any time.
- I have over 150 million gold (estimated) in mats.
- I don't sell mats because I don't need the gold.
- I don't buy mats because I have more than I will ever need.
- I only play 1 character, and can do anything and everything with him.
1-1.5hrs /day of play time where 75% of it is just running back and forth between a daily writ quest board, crafting stations, and a quest turn-in in Summerset, really isn't difficult at all.
I guess inflation must be an "other people" thing, because I don't need the ESO "Community" for anything except Trials and some achievements like Trifectas, and the game itself isn't nearly difficult enough to require BIS for anything.
I was completing Veteran Dungeons and achievements long before I ever golded anything, and I only did that because I was bored and I could. /shrugEdited by omnidoh on January 7, 2022 2:39AM0 -
buttaface✭✭✭✭✭Writs dont account for any inflation.
Disagreed, and agreed with all the others pointing out in the thread exactly how using add ons on PC for writ assembly lines explains and is a material cause of the wide difference between inflation on PC and console.
Getting ~80k gold or more each day depending on toons/accounts/setup in 30 minutes or less simply by logging toons in and out is irrefutably inflationary regardless of whether the resulting mats are sold or kept and how they are sold or the taxes applied. While it is possible to get more gold playing the game in the same time, there is no way to do so effortlessly and in an automated fashion. And your model is flawed and fallaciously omits necessary context because it plainly does not include the profits you get from the mats themselves or the surveys, only the gold costs.
Running that many toons with PC add ons and generating XXk gold and subtracting only the very low base mat and style stone costs with so little effort and stopping right there is inflationary, no need to go any further.0 -
Castagere✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'M willing to take anything that will get away from where we are going. It reminds me of swtors market now. I will never understand the pricing of items that some guilds list.0 -
wolfie1.0.✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ultimately ZOS knows what they need to do to if/when they want to tackle inflation if they want to. They have many many options.0 -
Kwoung✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'M willing to take anything that will get away from where we are going. It reminds me of swtors market now. I will never understand the pricing of items that some guilds list.
Guilds don't list anything. As a matter of fact, the biggest competition between sellers... is usually within the same guild. As for the pricing, it is almost always based upon what someone is willing to pay for it... so when gold flows into the game so easily and is also very easy to funnel a lot of into your own bank... the price someone is willing to pay just keeps going up.
For those confused by this, the daily writs don't make players rich, the writs simply add HUGE amounts of gold to the game on a daily basis. Then the enterprising individuals in game make sure that a large amount of it ends up with them, creating the very rich players. Then those very rich pay whatever for items they want, because they can't be overly bothered to search out deals or even care, because gold is so easy to come by it is near worthless to them. So prices go up because they can pay up.
Once rich, other parts of the game open up as well, like buying your way through all the motif's to be a Master Crafter or simply collecting them all so you can do whatever Master Writs come along. Same with recipes, the rich want to own them and can and will pay more than the average Joe in order to get them, so they can decorate to their hearts content. Getting rich also means you can afford to flip, which many find to be a fun way to funnel even more gold into their accounts, and also driving prices up at the same time.Edited by Kwoung on January 6, 2022 11:29PM1 -
wolfie1.0.✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The bag and bank space become useless gold sinks once players have the space. So in the end they do little to curb inflation.
The transmute crystals being sold for gold would have little impact. Those with deep pockets (lots of gold) do not waste their gold on such things they can easily get for free.
The 100k login reward does not seem to come that often and when it does it is only once in that month. Petty change and removing it would not have a noticeable effect on inflation. The gold cost/increased find in CP is also very small in the big picture of things.
The truth of the matter is if we increase the supply of items by harvesting and farming more then we will lower the cost of items and reduce inflation. Zenimax already gave us control over this. Each of us has a choice, pony up the gold or farm the items ourselves and even make some gold in the process.
While I agree with most of what you said, I do not believe introducing extra materials into the marketplace would effect much. Those of us with deep pockets would just feel a bit better about upgrading gear or doing Master Writs for a while, then the price would go up yet again because we buy so much. Removing gold from the economy is pretty much MMO economy 101 when it comes to combating mudflation, and was done pretty well in most games until ZOS decided that trading gold for crowns was cool... and let it run rampant in order to make crown sales, at the detriment of the in-game economy.
The price of materials we farm is a matter of supply and demand. If more was on the market then that would push the price down. This is a law of economics and not an opinion I am espousing.
Granted, as long as enough players are willing to pay the current prices they will pony up the gold instead of choosing to farm. Until that happens the player base is saying there is nothing wrong with the current prices.
Also, gold sinks that would be strong enough to push the price of materials down would also mean those who think the current prices of materials would still have problems buying them since the gold sinks are taking their gold away.
You are ignoring one of the basic tenets of economics... that governments control the amount of currency in the system at any given time. The US government destroys as much cash as it prints on a daily basis... thus keeping inflation in check. This is what makes the economy work so what you said will be true and supply/demand can control pricing.
On the various times that some governments simply printed money to inject more cash into their systems, they very quickly found that the main effect was rampant inflation. Such as happened in Mexico in 1987 when it spiked and then took a wheelbarrow full of peso's to buy a single loaf of bread, until they corrected the issue over the next 6 years or so.
It is impossible to stop inflation... as long as there is a never ending flow of new money into a system.
It's not impossible to stop inflation, it's just that a small controlled amount of inflation is preferable to the alternatives.0 -
Kwoung✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭wolfie1.0. wrote: »The bag and bank space become useless gold sinks once players have the space. So in the end they do little to curb inflation.
The transmute crystals being sold for gold would have little impact. Those with deep pockets (lots of gold) do not waste their gold on such things they can easily get for free.
The 100k login reward does not seem to come that often and when it does it is only once in that month. Petty change and removing it would not have a noticeable effect on inflation. The gold cost/increased find in CP is also very small in the big picture of things.
The truth of the matter is if we increase the supply of items by harvesting and farming more then we will lower the cost of items and reduce inflation. Zenimax already gave us control over this. Each of us has a choice, pony up the gold or farm the items ourselves and even make some gold in the process.
While I agree with most of what you said, I do not believe introducing extra materials into the marketplace would effect much. Those of us with deep pockets would just feel a bit better about upgrading gear or doing Master Writs for a while, then the price would go up yet again because we buy so much. Removing gold from the economy is pretty much MMO economy 101 when it comes to combating mudflation, and was done pretty well in most games until ZOS decided that trading gold for crowns was cool... and let it run rampant in order to make crown sales, at the detriment of the in-game economy.
The price of materials we farm is a matter of supply and demand. If more was on the market then that would push the price down. This is a law of economics and not an opinion I am espousing.
Granted, as long as enough players are willing to pay the current prices they will pony up the gold instead of choosing to farm. Until that happens the player base is saying there is nothing wrong with the current prices.
Also, gold sinks that would be strong enough to push the price of materials down would also mean those who think the current prices of materials would still have problems buying them since the gold sinks are taking their gold away.
You are ignoring one of the basic tenets of economics... that governments control the amount of currency in the system at any given time. The US government destroys as much cash as it prints on a daily basis... thus keeping inflation in check. This is what makes the economy work so what you said will be true and supply/demand can control pricing.
On the various times that some governments simply printed money to inject more cash into their systems, they very quickly found that the main effect was rampant inflation. Such as happened in Mexico in 1987 when it spiked and then took a wheelbarrow full of peso's to buy a single loaf of bread, until they corrected the issue over the next 6 years or so.
It is impossible to stop inflation... as long as there is a never ending flow of new money into a system.
It's not impossible to stop inflation, it's just that a small controlled amount of inflation is preferable to the alternatives.
I don't think you read the whole sentence you replied to, but that's cool, I agree with your point.0 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DonRavello wrote: »@DonRavello while I agree with what you mean by this post, I am not sure if you realize that the prices you mention are peanuts money for people who own hundreds of million gold or more, and/or people who run several trading guilds who can play with the market, causing significant changes in base mats costs and so on.
The game has to be easy enough so an average player could afford certain things in a reasonable amount of game play. I am not saying it should rain with millions of gold for new players, but what you are suggesting will make it harder for casual players to acquire gold or save gold for something noteworthy. The very rich people will not be affected.
Their money sink should be these expensive guild spots they have, or maybe there should be a cap on the revenue someone can make in a certain amount of time. On the other hand, the devs could change the drop rates from now and then, one case that comes to my mind is hardwood (or mundane runes).
Thank you and the other participants of this thread for your ideas and insights. I am quite aware that the mega-rich will not be affected much, but quite some people would like to dump their millions to these additional options (I also received positive PMs), so why not make them available? There is no "one solution fits all" approach, I guess. Inflation will not be gone, but stopped from skyrocketing. That's the idea.
I would definitely invest my millions sitting in the bank to upgrade my bags and bank, and I would buy Transmute Crystals instead of running random dungeons, which are usually boring and a waste of time to me.
You just noted one of the reasons transmute crystals will not be sold for gold. The design for getting crystals is to get people to participate in certain activities including doing a random dungeon. Since it is clear that the benefit of the system would be diminished by selling crystals for gold it is doubtful the suggestion will get any traction with Zenimax.
This does not get to the point where most of the other ideas will have limited short time effects as gold sinks so they will not curb inflation.0 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Writs dont account for any inflation.
Disagreed, and agreed with all the others pointing out in the thread exactly how using add ons on PC for writ assembly lines explains and is a material cause of the wide difference between inflation on PC and console.
Getting ~80k gold or more each day depending on toons/accounts/setup in 30 minutes or less simply by logging toons in and out is irrefutably inflationary regardless of whether the resulting mats are sold or kept and how they are sold or the taxes applied. While it is possible to get more gold playing the game in the same time, there is no way to do so effortlessly and in an automated fashion. And your model is flawed and fallaciously omits necessary context because it plainly does not include the profits you get from the mats themselves or the surveys, only the gold costs.
Running that many toons with PC add ons and generating XXk gold and subtracting only the very low base mat and style stone costs with so little effort and stopping right there is inflationary, no need to go any further.
First of all, I used to do more writs before I started using LWC. Now, outside of the Jubilee event I only do one character and a half. I don't know how you guys can do 18 characters in 45 minutes, as you claim, since I can't do 11 in an hour.
Second, you are disregarding the latest QoL improvements to writs that ZOS put in, where you can see in the craft window the list of items you have to craft. Before LWC, the hardest part of doing a writ was remembering which pieces you needed that day. That's now part of the UI on consoles, so the time difference should be minimal.The Moot Councillor2 -
kringled_1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Writs dont account for any inflation.
Disagreed, and agreed with all the others pointing out in the thread exactly how using add ons on PC for writ assembly lines explains and is a material cause of the wide difference between inflation on PC and console.
Getting ~80k gold or more each day depending on toons/accounts/setup in 30 minutes or less simply by logging toons in and out is irrefutably inflationary regardless of whether the resulting mats are sold or kept and how they are sold or the taxes applied. While it is possible to get more gold playing the game in the same time, there is no way to do so effortlessly and in an automated fashion. And your model is flawed and fallaciously omits necessary context because it plainly does not include the profits you get from the mats themselves or the surveys, only the gold costs.
Running that many toons with PC add ons and generating XXk gold and subtracting only the very low base mat and style stone costs with so little effort and stopping right there is inflationary, no need to go any further.
First of all, I used to do more writs before I started using LWC. Now, outside of the Jubilee event I only do one character and a half. I don't know how you guys can do 18 characters in 45 minutes, as you claim, since I can't do 11 in an hour.
Second, you are disregarding the latest QoL improvements to writs that ZOS put in, where you can see in the craft window the list of items you have to craft. Before LWC, the hardest part of doing a writ was remembering which pieces you needed that day. That's now part of the UI on consoles, so the time difference should be minimal.
For multiple character writs, another very large factor is the per character load time, which I understand is significantly longer on consoles than PC.0 -
katanagirl1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Didn’t I post in here yesterday? I don’t see it.
Khajiit Stamblade main
Dark Elf Magsorc
Redguard Stamina Dragonknight
Orc Stamplar PVP
Breton Magsorc PVP
Dark Elf Necromancer
Dark Elf Magden
Khajiit Stamblade
Khajiit Stamina Arcanist
PS5 NA1 -
PeacefulAnarchy✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Are you confusing it with this thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7485164/#Comment_7485164katanagirl1 wrote: »Didn’t I post in here yesterday? I don’t see it.
1