As if endgame pve is not small enough. [snip]

[edited for baiting]

I don't really like this concept of "death limit", I prefer "wipe limit"
IMHO, groups must be punished for wipe, not for a single death. And all "no-death" achievements should be "no wipe".

Secret ice boss in black drake villa is a good example - you have only a few attempts, but you can resurrect allies with no restriction.

Zatox wrote: »

I don't really like this concept of "death limit", I prefer "wipe limit"
IMHO, groups must be punished for wipe, not for a single death. And all "no-death" achievements should be "no wipe".

Secret ice boss in black drake villa is a good example - you have only a few attempts, but you can resurrect allies with no restriction.

I mean, groups are punished enough with wipes by wasting time and potions. XD imagine a new main tank trying to learn how to position falgravn's blood pools with a wipe limit. If the tank dies, it's a pretty good chance that a prog group will get wrecked shortly after. That's at least 15-20 minutes wasted to get back to that point for him to try again. It's bad enough that you might have 3 good pulls on him before the instance itself becomes unplayable.

Nah.

Trifectas and then scorepushing is already available. No reason to enforce an arbitrary death limit when literally all that will do is hinder and frustrate those who are progging and learning the content.

The only problem with limitless death is it allows bypassing most of the trash, using a "Run, Die, Resurrect" approach. This is not very creative and ignores part of the challenge. It also allows to bypass certain trickier boss fight mechanics as long as it happens to a few group members, since ESO allows in-fight resurrection. Cost of death is basically negligible: soul gems are abundant, repair cost is low.

While I think death limit should not be brought back, nor the cost of death increased, there should be some counter measures to avoid people abusing aforementioned methods.

Same stands for dungeons too (ie. rushing).

The hardmode for the hardmodes/whole trial or dungeon is literally the trifectas. You can't die even once to get those so there's no need for a death limit.

Mechanics like this make sense on paper, but in actuality they don't provide meaningful playing experiences. It is better to add mechanics to bosses or more classes/abilities than it is to put up road blocks.

In an MMO you want the cost of entry to be minimal but the ceiling to be VERY high in terms of allowing the players in a group to accomplish. Another weird mechanic that MMO devs sometimes fall into are difficulty mechanics where the dmg and health are increased instead of more mechanics added. That also puts up a fake barrier that doesnt mean the encounters will be fun, just another system that adding a dps or changing dps gear solves in a matter of days instead of mastery of the encounters that usually take months.

Rudrani wrote: »

oh well. i guess im the only one who thinks this was a cool, verycool, idea.

As others mentioned it could a variant, but for regular runs it would be toxic. I remember the days when going to trials was a big privilege, now pug trials are very much a thing, even for veteran runs. Imagine, who would take inexperienced people on a training run if one single noob could prematurely end a run? Or a griever?

It sounds very punitive to the point it seems it was a good idea they removed it if this was actually part of raids.

Further, it would be pointless to make it a toggle because no one would turn it on. Well, no one would turn it on unless it added points to the run, and then it would not matter because the top groups will clear without that many deaths making the added points fairly purposeless.

For the less-than-stellar groups that still end up being able to clear trials, it would just hammer them down for no reason if it was not a toggle.

So in the end it is not very friendly and provides no benefit to the game.

I remember plenty of times we'd be doing vSO (when that was the end game) only to have the Manti bug out and force a 12 man wipe.

3x of that and there was no point in going on. Your group could be doing everything right and get screwed by the game to a point of no continuance.


Death limit has always been a bad idea. It's why they just worked it into the overall score instead. It might be different if the game actually responded dynamically, properly, and consistently.