Suggestion: Non-vet Dungeons to allow a scaled experience based on number of players

NewBlacksmurf · November 2021

I’ve been away for a while playing a number of different games. Mainly the large break was some frustration of an xbox visual issue now resolved. The other was…WoW Classic

I’ve been reading lots of posts, update notes, etc and got the 8 year forum alert (WOW its been a while).
I see lots of good changes and one thing I see as adding more value is if dungeon scales based on the number of current players inside the dungeon.

I dont have a solid suggestion if this would lower life, change number of NPCs or increase players life and diamanté/healing.

I just think this adds variety to play style and ensures longevity of the game further. Initially the scaled actions for over-world stuff added some variety and while it could use a redo, this suggestion seems more inline with what many players would enjoy.

This isn’t a suggestion to make it harder or easier but to make these more accessible. I for one am going back to gain the skill point for many dungeons I missed due to DLC. I’m finding it very hard to get a group due to varying reasons, but all in all, I’d like to be able to solo, duo a lot of these with actual friends or even see at least one other join me to complete said dungeons.

There’s also the farming aspects which I see are popular for some dungeons based on set drops.

AlnilamE · November 2021

If you have companions leveled up and decked out, you should be able to duo (2 players + 2 companions) most of the dungeons.

VaranisArano · November 2021

A. Would this scaling be optional?

I ask because I've soloed a number of base game dungeons and I'd like to still be able to do it. (ZOS, let Mirri stand on pressure plates, please. There's no reason we can't solo Direfrost.) Likewise, years ago I duoed Vet Darkshade 1 with a friend once for gear when both of us were probably doing 15k DPS, so it's not like you can't solo, duo, or trio dungeons now.

B. How do you see farming gear working in these scaled dungeons?

Thing is, if dungeons get easier for 1-3 players, then we've basically turned dungeon farming into delves, and if dungeons get harder for 5+ players, then we've basically turned dungeons farming into trials. If the gear stays the same, its not like the difficulty stayed the same.

And in either case, ZOS now has to balance dungeons designed for a tank, healer, and two damage dealers for everything from 1 to however many players, most of whom will be damage dealers.

One reason why I bring that up as a challenge is that it's not just a matter of health or more mobs. Its also mechanics. When you solo dungeons right now, you quickly learn just how many mechanics the boss has when it's not being spread out among 4 people. Likewise, most of the dungeon boss mechanics aren't designed for more than four people. Can you imagine trying to do the overlapping circles of death mechanic in Crypt of Hearts with five or six people?

Grandchamp1989 · November 2021

I much prefer a story mode..

Soloing dungeons is one of the last true tests solo players can do without other people interrupting it.

NewBlacksmurf · November 2021

VaranisArano wrote: »

A. Would this scaling be optional?

I ask because I've soloed a number of base game dungeons and I'd like to still be able to do it. (ZOS, let Mirri stand on pressure plates, please. There's no reason we can't solo Direfrost.) Likewise, years ago I duoed Vet Darkshade 1 with a friend once for gear when both of us were probably doing 15k DPS, so it's not like you can't solo, duo, or trio dungeons now.

B. How do you see farming gear working in "Story Mode"?

Thing is, if dungeons get easier for 1-3 players, then we've basically turned dungeon farming into delves, and if dungeons get harder for 5+ players, then we've basically turned dungeons farming into trials. If the gear stays the same, its not like the difficulty stayed the same.

And in either case, ZOS now has to balance dungeons designed for a tank, healer, and two damage dealers for everything from 1 to however many players, most of whom will be damage dealers.

One reason why I bring that up as a challenge is that it's not just a matter of health or more mobs. Its also mechanics. When you solo dungeons right now, you quickly learn just how many mechanics the boss has when it's not being spread out among 4 people. Likewise, most of the dungeon boss mechanics aren't designed for more than four people. Can you imagine trying to do the overlapping circles of death mechanic in Crypt of Hearts with five or six people?

A: I think it has to be optional. In my head it would be a choice prior to que or entering said dungeons exactly how we choose vet or non-vet today.

B: I would leave that to ZOS as it would be subject to a lot of changes as they nerf, buff, adjust things. At the min I would say all drops still occur at green or white rarity (requiring crafting upgrades).

I don’t think it should need balancing because this scaling would be most similar to overworld today. I think many of us feel the over-world is too easy but this idea is mainly for seeing and completing things.

NewBlacksmurf · November 2021

AlnilamE wrote: »

If you have companions leveled up and decked out, you should be able to duo (2 players + 2 companions) most of the dungeons.

Yes but to my initial concern, it requires more than one other person (not counting the companion)

kojou · November 2021

My main complaint are the things that require more than one player to activate in order to experience the full dungeon. At "Normal" level most dungeons are easily solo-able otherwise.

hafgood · November 2021

No, no, no, no, no.

Unless this option only applies to normal versions of the dungeons, and even then I can't see the point as most can be soloed.

And the rewards would have to be looked at. Why should someone who does the dungeon at the level of a delve get the same reward as me for soloing it at its normal level?

But this must not apply to vet dungeons, they are challenging for a reason and should stay challenging, they should not be watered down to cater for those who don't want to do them as intended - in a group.

So no, this must not come about, it is totally unnecessary. Storymode with limited rewards for those wanting to do the quest by themselves, fine. But scaling the dungeons to the number of players? No, no, no, no, no

Xebov · November 2021

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

I see lots of good changes and one thing I see as adding more value is if dungeon scales based on the number of current players inside the dungeon.

Dungeons are created with a 4 player group in mind and their whole mechanic is build around this. This means that it would require alot of work to solve this and implement it. The main question is what exactly would be the benefit of it?

NewBlacksmurf · November 2021

Xebov wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

I see lots of good changes and one thing I see as adding more value is if dungeon scales based on the number of current players inside the dungeon.

Dungeons are created with a 4 player group in mind and their whole mechanic is build around this. This means that it would require alot of work to solve this and implement it. The main question is what exactly would be the benefit of it?

If scaled and we bring a companion its fine largely…the exact benefit is to complete content that someone missed or that someone hopes to do at their own pace. A lot of the DLC dungeons you almost can never find a group for and to be honest, the way they have these dungeons working conflict with a lot of the changes they are making to “the trinity” that’s not really there unless its for veteran dungeons.

Maybe a better way of saying this is allow scaling to non-vet dungeons similar to how over-world content works.

NewBlacksmurf · November 2021

hafgood wrote: »

No, no, no, no, no.

Unless this option only applies to normal versions of the dungeons, and even then I can't see the point as most can be soloed.

And the rewards would have to be looked at. Why should someone who does the dungeon at the level of a delve get the same reward as me for soloing it at its normal level?

But this must not apply to vet dungeons, they are challenging for a reason and should stay challenging, they should not be watered down to cater for those who don't want to do them as intended - in a group.

So no, this must not come about, it is totally unnecessary. Storymode with limited rewards for those wanting to do the quest by themselves, fine. But scaling the dungeons to the number of players? No, no, no, no, no

Good point specific to veteran dungeons. I would completely agree this would only apply to normal dungeons.

Alpheu5 · November 2021

kojou wrote: »

At "Normal" level most dungeons are easily solo-able otherwise.

This is proving to be convenient. The past few DLCs I've been running through the normal versions of the dungeons solo before attempting vet since it gives a better feel for mechanics. And even if you already know the dungeon, it's nice to be able to go somewhere like nBDV and get the gear you need without sitting in queue for 2 hours.