Pickpocketing and killing NPCs in cities has become very difficult due to role players

Rishikesa108 · November 2021

I've tried to read every message, thanks to all. I'd like to clarify some things at this point.
1) I have used the word "roleplayers" because some of those harassers have called themselves in that way. Not all indeed, but some of them. So I thought they were roleplayers and I was ruining their vignettes by pickpocketing and killing NPCs. I respect role players that play the way they like WITHOUT interfere with others way to play.
2) Everyone has the right to play in their own way, but NOBODY has the right to interfere and prevent someone to play in his way. Sometime I am disturbed by other players playing their way (for example I don't like hearing the noises of people playing pvp in the middle of the cities). In these cases it is me who change the instance and leave complete freedom for people to play their way. If someone is disturbed by my licit way of playing, he is not authorized to interfere with me and try to prevent me from playing: it is he who has to change his instance, not me.
3) Competition between players is a different thing. I am not disturbed if someone comes and kill the NPC before me (or loot a chest before me, etc...). This is playing, this is correct. Sometime its my time to win, sometime its another's. I was just speaking about the intention to disturb and prevent the game serenity to someone.
4) I am amazed to read how many people mistake real-world morality for morality in a game. Is ESO immersive? Yes, but up to a certain point. I am always aware that I am playing and that I am in a virtual world where things are done that could never be done in real life. Do I want to be a thief and a killer in the game? And who can stop me or can blame me for it? Those who do so have serious problems of exchanging the virtual with the real. Are you scandalized ? You are not forced to play ESO, where everyday your character kills billions of lifes. Better play social games or sports ones if you are scandalized by killing NPCs. Or simply leave those sinners to their destiny and you play your right way :-)

Gandalf_72 · November 2021

I agree with the messages of @Rishikesa108 @KMarble @Kwoung @VaranisArano @spartaxoxo @Fennwitty @BlueRaven

Fennwitty · November 2021

If someone is "roleplaying" that they are discouraging crime by throwing mudballs ... seriously is that how you'd act in the real world if you saw someone getting mugged?

No.

You're not saving anyone, you're not behaving like a real person in the world. Go call for the guards or tell the NPC to run for it!

Oh wait that isn't in the game. Because this is a game.

BlueRaven · November 2021

Just want to jump in here and point out that there are endeavors that require the player…

Steal from the environment.
Pickpocket
And use the blade of woe on townspeople.

So yes, those are intended (allowable) actions.

And I also feel I need to point out that the dead npcs respawn, they are not permanently gone from the game.

Soulshine · November 2021

AlnilamE wrote: »

If you are doing the TG dailies, you can pickpocket NPCs anywhere in the zone, not just where there are quest circles.

Personally, I pickpocket quite a bit and I've never encountered another player trying to stop me. I may have been called a murderer once, though.

Not doing them anymore. Long since maxed out the line and all my titles. But it was a regular thing when I was doing them, and anytime I get a whim to do some now, same thing. As I wrote, it's not a bug deal. You can just move to another location or pick up a different daily.

Kwoung · November 2021

Nanfoodle wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

Nanfoodle wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Tra_Lalan wrote: »

So let me get this right:

Murdering npcs - is playing the game as intended (because - Dark Brotherhood DLC)

but

Seeing npcs murdered and feeling that its wrong and needs to be stoped - is not playing the game as intended?
(how about like every zone story?)

Don't get me wrong, I think everyone can have their playstyle. One can be a member of dark brotherhood the other can be a "Tamriel hero".

What I really don't like is this:

Nobody is reporting OP to ZOS for slaughtering their favourite NPC or half of the town that has just been "saved" from something (which is also disrupting their playstyle, and kinda ruining game expierience: "Hey I just saved those people! he cant do that! Oh no.. what? they respawn? Why did they even bother me?"),

but OP is reporting players for things like: yelling murderer, mimicking attack gestures towards his character, throwing mudballs, when he is trying to play the game the way he likes.
So his playstyle should be respected and not disturb but other players style shouldn't?

Do we really have to report other players for everything we don't like?

Well, the OP isn't an NPC and they are literally playing the game as intended. Your "do gooders" are using the OP as content. It's entirely different. In PVE you can do whatever you want to NPCs. The moment you do that to other players you are a problem and deserve to be reported. And no, killing NPCs is not doing something to other players. Killing NPCs is literally a necessary game mechanic for encouraged gameplay in the game.

Killing a bandet or a some villain is not the same as killing the town cryer. Or the woman selling fruit in the market. I play my char like I would want to be, even when it's difficult to do so. That's the fun for me. Being honorable person. If that means chucking a mub ball at a player about to kill that woman selling apples.

If you don't Iike people interacting with your game play. I suggest playing Skyrim on Xbox. Yes. It's better then PS. MMOs are designed to interact with people.

Can you actually prove that was a bandit/pirate/etc, and not some poor townsperson abducted by the bandits/pirates/whatever to cook and run errands for them? I am pretty sure a good 50% of the NPC's you kill are pure innocents. Not to mention I like animals, and people are killing them constantly in this game! Those poor wolves are an endangered species, why do you keep killing them!!!

Not to mention, murdering an entire delve just because some guy claims it is his and his competitor moved in. Did you check with the records section in town to make sure he was the actual owner, or just took his word for it and went on a murder spree? Who is to say he didn't sell it and used you to get it back by killing the folks he sold it to?

Anyhow, claiming you are a "hero", yeah no... I have completed all of the zone quests and most of the side quests at this point, and there are a good many that are very sketchy about who is the good/bad guy.. and pretty sure there were numerous that were a "opps, my bad", maybe we killed the wrong people.

That apple lady BTW, she is a Dominion spy and deserves to die!

Ya, it says bandet over their head not captive.

Yeah, I can recall a good number of times I have gone into towns or villages where some or all the citizens were possessed, brainwashed, or drugged, and they had name plates above their head indicating them as monsters or bad guys as well. So pretty much every one of those you kill is one less law abiding citizen that will be restored to normal when the cure, which you know is being developed and is near completion, gets distributed. So how heroic is that, knowing you are killing off husbands, wives, cousins, neighbors who will now never see each other again, due to your hand? That poor guy slogging around a bandit camp with a bandit label over his head, I am quite positive he is there against his will, as has been proven by numerous other quests in the game. Just like IRL, I generally don't find nameplates to be a good judge of who or what someone is.

KMarble · November 2021

Some people seem to take the title of Hero of Tamriel too seriously. I have it too, and refuse to use it because every time I go into Selene's Web, I have no option but to side with that uptight high elf and kill Selene who was doing nothing wrong. Every time I go into Vault of Madness, I kill the mad architect and try to help 3 ghosts who drove him to madness. In Wrothgar I've killed harpies and stole their eggs because some wood elf has a client who wants them.

There are no heros in Tamriel, not in the sense of perfect, completely pure with only good intentions "hero". There are no innocent people either. Our characters do what they have to do to survive (and get gold). That "innocent" NPC? They have skulls of slaves in their pockets.

VaranisArano · November 2021

KMarble wrote: »

Some people seem to take the title of Hero of Tamriel too seriously. I have it too, and refuse to use it because every time I go into Selene's Web, I have no option but to side with that uptight high elf and kill Selene who was doing nothing wrong. Every time I go into Vault of Madness, I kill the mad architect and try to help 3 ghosts who drove him to madness. In Wrothgar I've killed harpies and stole their eggs because some wood elf has a client who wants them.

There are no heros in Tamriel, not in the sense of perfect, completely pure with only good intentions "hero". There are no innocent people either. Our characters do what they have to do to survive (and get gold). That "innocent" NPC? They have skulls of slaves in their pockets.

"Protagonist of Tamriel" just doesn't have the same ring to it, you know?

TV Tropes Warning: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ProtagonistCenteredMorality

Kwoung · November 2021

KMarble wrote: »

That "innocent" NPC? They have skulls of slaves in their pockets.

My recent adventures in Tamriel include completing every side quest in every zone, so I absolutely agree with that statement. I can't even remember how many of those so called "innocents" going about their business in town, turned out to be truly evil, working against their neighbors, murdering them in secret, plotting with some Daedric lord against Tamriel and whatnot.

I was only half joking when I said that lady selling apples was a Dominion spy in a prior post, because she very well could be that or worst even! Oh, and fun fact... NONE of those NPC's have labels above their heads indicating them as evil, nor are they agro.. until you uncover their nefarious plots.

SilverBride · November 2021

I do not agree with griefing and think these issues should be reported.

BUT...

A thief and/or assassin should not be doing these behaviors in full sight of others. Find targets away from the beaten path, or wait until the area is clear of guards or other innocent citizens before making your move.

FeedbackOnly · November 2021

Group play means not everyone will play nice

Elsonso · November 2021

SilverBride wrote: »

I do not agree with griefing and think these issues should be reported.

BUT...

A thief and/or assassin should not be doing these behaviors in full sight of others. Find targets away from the beaten path, or wait until the area is clear of guards or other innocent citizens before making your move.

Players do not count as potential observers, but other than that, we pretty much have to do as you suggest if we don't want a bounty.

SilverBride · November 2021

Elsonso wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I do not agree with griefing and think these issues should be reported.

BUT...

A thief and/or assassin should not be doing these behaviors in full sight of others. Find targets away from the beaten path, or wait until the area is clear of guards or other innocent citizens before making your move.

Players do not count as potential observers, but other than that, we pretty much have to do as you suggest if we don't want a bounty.

I know player characters don't count but I avoid them when I'm out doing my dirty deeds. (done dirt cheap)

Kwoung · November 2021

SilverBride wrote: »

I do not agree with griefing and think these issues should be reported.

BUT...

A thief and/or assassin should not be doing these behaviors in full sight of others. Find targets away from the beaten path, or wait until the area is clear of guards or other innocent citizens before making your move.

Well, that is more on ZOS for putting drops in the middle of very active player areas. So while yes, I always make sure there are no guards or NPC's "looking" while stealing, it would be neigh impossible to wait for every player to leave the area. Same goes for Dark Brotherhood quests, they are very specific about the area in which you need to eliminate the targets... it is a literal quest circle covering a section of town on your map... and not something players have any control over.

AlnilamE · November 2021

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

4) I am amazed to read how many people mistake real-world morality for morality in a game. Is ESO immersive? Yes, but up to a certain point. I am always aware that I am playing and that I am in a virtual world where things are done that could never be done in real life. Do I want to be a thief and a killer in the game? And who can stop me or can blame me for it? Those who do so have serious problems of exchanging the virtual with the real. Are you scandalized ? You are not forced to play ESO, where everyday your character kills billions of lifes. Better play social games or sports ones if you are scandalized by killing NPCs. Or simply leave those sinners to their destiny and you play your right way :-)

I'm going to interject here. It's not real world morality, but the morality of the characters in the game. The citizens of Tamriel themselves view thieving and murdering negatively, right? Otherwise you wouldn't have bounties and you wouldn't have to worry about guards. So it's not irrational that certain characters in the game will or won't act in certain ways.

I have a guildie that has a number of characters who do not steal or do anything illegal. They will never do the DB or TG quests because it's against their moral code. She has another character that is a thief.

My main character is a thief and assassin and she will never change her ways, but I don't know if a few of my characters will go through those guild quests because their moral compass is different. This being an RPG, the moral compass of the player is (generally) unrelated to the moral compass of the characters and they will act in ways that the player will not. I assure you I am not a thief and a murderer IRL.

KMarble wrote: »

Some people seem to take the title of Hero of Tamriel too seriously. I have it too, and refuse to use it because every time I go into Selene's Web, I have no option but to side with that uptight high elf and kill Selene who was doing nothing wrong.

This is why Liar of Maarselok is so satisfying. :-)

Also hoping for a continuation of Vaults of Madness at some point.

buttaface · November 2021

OP, sorry you are being griefed, and that's what it is, facile rationalizations notwithstanding. I personally haven't been griefed in this way, I do get griefed whenever I log into gaming forums though and have to read the obvious, ridiculous trolling vapidity therein that simply must be specifically tailored to troll and grief into a reaction. Nuff said on that.

To the topic, it's likely that someone in one of your guilds or on your friends list is tipping others off whom they know but you don't into griefing you at your location. I wouldn't bother reporting this, just look carefully at your friends list and guild rosters. If you are in guilds with account names like "xxpvpgodxx" or similar edgelordship, or those are on your friends list, there's one likely answer.

Rishikesa108 · November 2021

I enjoy and laugh thinking that many of the moralists in this thread probably have some vampire character, sucking blood from the necks of other humans or humanoids (in a pretty creepy and child-safe way). Wake up guys: you are playing! Have fun being vampires and werewolves, being assassins and thieves, killing hordes of goblins and even hordes of soldiers from the various factions of Tamriel. What about the pvp: uh what immorality, killing another player! And when I acquired the "Felonious Recompense" achievement (a long time ago) I enjoyed killing several citizens with the life line in yellow to get exaggerated bounties to pay at the fence. Uh, what a bad person I am XD

Kesstryl · November 2021

Tra_Lalan wrote: »

So let me get this right:

Murdering npcs - is playing the game as intended (because - Dark Brotherhood DLC)

but

Seeing npcs murdered and feeling that its wrong and needs to be stoped - is not playing the game as intended?
(how about like every zone story?)

Don't get me wrong, I think everyone can have their playstyle. One can be a member of dark brotherhood the other can be a "Tamriel hero".

What I really don't like is this:

Nobody is reporting OP to ZOS for slaughtering their favourite NPC or half of the town that has just been "saved" from something (which is also disrupting their playstyle, and kinda ruining game expierience: "Hey I just saved those people! he cant do that! Oh no.. what? they respawn? Why did they even bother me?"),

but OP is reporting players for things like: yelling murderer, mimicking attack gestures towards his character, throwing mudballs, when he is trying to play the game the way he likes.
So his playstyle should be respected and not disturb but other players style shouldn't?

Do we really have to report other players for everything we don't like?

When did ESO become Westworld?

Chrysa1is · November 2021

SpacemanSpiff1 wrote: »

why would you think they are "role players"?

I mean they might be, there's no way to tell the NPC that someone is pickpocketing them, so attacking them could be their version of tapping them on the shoulder.

LannStone · November 2021

CasgarTheSomnolent wrote: »

People grief you over that stuff? *rolls eyes*

1) Screencap their names and messages. Always good to have a record. For evidence AND fun.
2) Kill every single NPC in the area.

Just murder the absolute hell out of every innocent you see. Right in front of them. They can literally do nothing to stop you. (They always have the option to port to a different instance.) You'll get a major bounty, and, hey, if you pay it off, you get an achievement and a dye. Make sure to thank them for giving you the kick in the pants you needed to work on that achievement.

Lol, I try to avoid bounties - never know it was an achievement to rack them up

wheresbes · November 2021

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

I've tried to read every message, thanks to all. I'd like to clarify some things at this point.
1) I have used the word "roleplayers" because some of those harassers have called themselves in that way. Not all indeed, but some of them. So I thought they were roleplayers and I was ruining their vignettes by pickpocketing and killing NPCs. I respect role players that play the way they like WITHOUT interfere with others way to play.
2) Everyone has the right to play in their own way, but NOBODY has the right to interfere and prevent someone to play in his way. Sometime I am disturbed by other players playing their way (for example I don't like hearing the noises of people playing pvp in the middle of the cities). In these cases it is me who change the instance and leave complete freedom for people to play their way. If someone is disturbed by my licit way of playing, he is not authorized to interfere with me and try to prevent me from playing: it is he who has to change his instance, not me.
3) Competition between players is a different thing. I am not disturbed if someone comes and kill the NPC before me (or loot a chest before me, etc...). This is playing, this is correct. Sometime its my time to win, sometime its another's. I was just speaking about the intention to disturb and prevent the game serenity to someone.
4) I am amazed to read how many people mistake real-world morality for morality in a game. Is ESO immersive? Yes, but up to a certain point. I am always aware that I am playing and that I am in a virtual world where things are done that could never be done in real life. Do I want to be a thief and a killer in the game? And who can stop me or can blame me for it? Those who do so have serious problems of exchanging the virtual with the real. Are you scandalized ? You are not forced to play ESO, where everyday your character kills billions of lifes. Better play social games or sports ones if you are scandalized by killing NPCs. Or simply leave those sinners to their destiny and you play your right way :-)

100% agree.

Jeremy · November 2021

LannStone wrote: »

CasgarTheSomnolent wrote: »

People grief you over that stuff? *rolls eyes*

1) Screencap their names and messages. Always good to have a record. For evidence AND fun.
2) Kill every single NPC in the area.

Just murder the absolute hell out of every innocent you see. Right in front of them. They can literally do nothing to stop you. (They always have the option to port to a different instance.) You'll get a major bounty, and, hey, if you pay it off, you get an achievement and a dye. Make sure to thank them for giving you the kick in the pants you needed to work on that achievement.

Lol, I try to avoid bounties - never know it was an achievement to rack them up

Has a cool furniture you can get from it also.

VaranisArano · November 2021

[Quoted post has been removed.]

Presumably not the same players.

ZOS had concerns that Enforcers and Thieves would game the system to get rewards. I would have concerns that Enforcers would turn into griefing and moreover, that requiring Thieves to stealth against players would make the Justice System into even more of a nightblade-only thing because of Cloak. In PVP - which an enforcer system basically is - I'd want a nightblade for stealth. In PVE, my Breton Stam Sorc makes a fine Master Thief and Silencer.

If people genuinely want to roleplay an enforcer close to what ZOS intended, then put up a duel request, once. If it's not accepted, then respect that the other person doesn't want to roleplay with you like that and go your merry way.

Rogue_WolfESO · November 2021

Playing as intended...🤣
ZoS gave us the mudball and functional ability to throw mud in other player's faces. Clearly, players are using this game item as ZoS intended!

Kwoung · November 2021

Rogue_Wolf wrote: »

Playing as intended...🤣
ZoS gave us the mudball and functional ability to throw mud in other player's faces. Clearly, players are using this game item as ZoS intended!

Using and over-using are 2 different things. ZOS has banned folks for excessive mud-balling, because that falls into the griefing category, which is against the TOS.

Rogue_WolfESO · November 2021

Kwoung wrote: »

Rogue_Wolf wrote: »

Playing as intended...🤣
ZoS gave us the mudball and functional ability to throw mud in other player's faces. Clearly, players are using this game item as ZoS intended!

Using and over-using are 2 different things. ZOS has banned folks for excessive mud-balling, because that falls into the griefing category, which is against the TOS.

Maybe they should implement a cool-down timer on the item to curb abuse, rather than banning players. 15-30 minute cooldown time would do the trick, imo.

Kwoung · November 2021

Rogue_Wolf wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

Rogue_Wolf wrote: »

Playing as intended...🤣
ZoS gave us the mudball and functional ability to throw mud in other player's faces. Clearly, players are using this game item as ZoS intended!

Using and over-using are 2 different things. ZOS has banned folks for excessive mud-balling, because that falls into the griefing category, which is against the TOS.

Maybe they should implement a cool-down timer on the item to curb abuse, rather than banning players. 15-30 minute cooldown time would do the trick, imo.

Until the yearly event comes around, then folks would be screaming about how long it takes to finish that quest. Personally, I think they should have never made it an emote and simply left them to be used from whatever you have in your inventory. This would also solve the issue, as players would simply use them up.

Athan1 · November 2021

Why do people need to feel harassed and violated by everything? Let's look at this from a positive angle. I find it pretty hilarious when I'm trying to pickpocket someone and a player or NPC screams "guards, arrest this criminal!" It's realistic and just funny. Just as NPCs may attack you if they spot you, players may throw mudballs at you or try to talk some sense into you like "Mara's crotch, stealing is wrong!". I find this funny.

And yes, if you travel around the world stealing and killing every NPC you see then lots of players will react - as they would in the real world, it's human instinct to react to "crimes". Of course, if someone does not realise this is a game and is actually abusive this should be reported, but just someone telling you to stop killing NPCs seriously or half-joking is not harassment.

Amottica · November 2021

@VaranisArano makes a good point.

We can play (RP) the way we want to but when that purposely impacts other players in a negative manner there will be a point it becomes harassment/griefing.

RPing the good saintly player against NPCs is one thing. Harming the gameplay of others becomes a different story. It is why I suggested in cases the OP brings up, report the player. Grab screenshots of any text and some videos to show their behavior.

RD065 · November 2021

When I first used the Big House in Alinor I always felt really bad about the older lady sweeping in front minding her own business always dead. Why do you do that? I also get emotional when someone kills one of the Giants in Eastmarch. I have a name for each one .. Leave the Giants alone.