Make Imperial City Great Again

coop500 · November 2021

ealdwin wrote: »

A few ideas:

1. Adjust Tel-Var loss/gain mechanics - When you kill a player, you can earn up to 50% of what your opponent has, but no more than 100% of what you have.

So, if you have 10 Tel Var and the opponent has 1000 Tel-Var, you can only earn 10, and they only lose 10.
If you have 1000 Tel-Var and the opponent has 1000 Tel-Var, you earn 500, and they lose 500.
If you have 1000 Tel-Var and the opponent has 10 Tel-Var, you earn 5, and they lose 5.

In other words, if you want to reap significant Tel-Var loads from other players, you have to be prepared to lose significant loads.
(Very similar ideas have been floating around for a while now. I agree with them, and above is how I'd implement it.)

2. Add more that can be purchased from Tel-Var vendors IE. make the farming and collection of Tel-Var more appealing so more people are drawn to the IC. A few ideas of stuff to sell:

- Jewelry platings
- Spell Power/Weapon Power potions
- Coffers with random crafting motifs

I agree with this.

I'm mostly a PVEer that goes to IC occasionally for Telvar and I find it very one sided and unfair that PVEers need to take all the risks but the PVPers can just kill players and take half while carrying nothing.
By the small chance I manage to fend off my attacker, I might get like, 50 stones, and then he's back in my face in 30 seconds or so.

I don't want the Telvar loss removed entirely, I think that'd just cause a lot of unbalanced drama. But I do feel the risk needs to be two sided. Right now it's one sided, which really makes it hard to get into

FlopsyPrince · November 2021

The problem with Tel Var is how quickly it can be gone.

That said, I don't recall spending any during my 3 or so years on the PS4 and I have yet to spend any in my time on the PC, so it has little motivational value for me.

Some fool kept killing me the other day during quests, which was all I was trying to do. He probably loved it, though I just quit the zone and went elsewhere. At least I didn't miss any even rewards.

====

I am not totally surprised, but why no comments on not fixing the long-running AD quest guidance bugs? The required (with enforced delays) zoning multiple times to get quests?

spartaxoxo · November 2021

VaranisArano wrote: »

You may not want the risk inherent to farming a PVP zone for Tel Var removed, but you do want the risk of losing Tel Var to a PVP or PVE encounter removed. I'd say that's removing all of the risk that makes Tel Var unique, making it no different than the AP or Key Fragments that are also gained despite the overarching risk of PVP.

Yeah this is about the sum of it. Where I disagree is that it would be then no different to AP or Key Fragments. Key Fragments aren't a currency and take up inventory space. And AP is obtainable in all pvp enabled zones.

Tel-Var however is only available reliably in IC. This is not a trivial unique element or unimportant. Because this gives people an incentive to pvp specifically in IC rather than Cyro or BGs.

Currently right now I have seen two big paint points discussed again and again and again from the "I do bgs and cyro but not IC" crowd, and that is "too many loading screens" and "don't like losing Tel-Var."

The problem with the Tel-Var design, and why this design is incredibly flawed, is that it disincentives risky battles and finishing pvp fights. This is why even people who still do IC just port out to Cyro to stash and then port back into IC. It pushes people to run in comfy zergs or gank, and not much in between. Casual pvp is discouraged entirely.

If you engage in these kinds of fights, you lose out on most of the reason you were in the zone in the first place. If you take a fight you don't win in any other pvp zone, you don't lose anything. Thus it is not worth it to go in alone or smaller scale or with a toon that is merely used casually in pvp without being particularly strong. People who aren't looking for loot but mostly looking for fights also don't bother because the low population as a result of this means they are better off doing BG if they want something smaller scale, despite IC in theory offering them better rewards.

kargen27 · November 2021

spartaxoxo wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

If there is nothing unique about Telvar (chance of losing it) then really there is no need for it to exist. We would have a PvE currency and a PvP currency. What else would we need?

IC being the only way to reliably get it is also a unique attribute. And the purpose it serves is to get people to join IC. Since the point of the change is to get people to come into IC, deleting it serves the literal opposite purpose.

It isn't unique if it becomes just like the other currencies..

It wouldn't be like those other currencies at all. PvP is inherently risky, which automatically makes it different to coins. The biggest generator of coins can even have the "work" part of it automated with the person only needing to move around to the various quest objectives on their own without breaking the rules (crafting writs). There is no risk to generating coins.

It would work similar to AP. But unlike AP, it would be limited to IC. Which makes it unique in and of itself.

The point is to make PvP in Imperial City vibrant and fun again. The potential loss/gain of Telvar is a part of that.

The loss of Tel-Var is explicitly what makes it unfun to the vast majority of people who do BGs and Cyro but not IC. They have stated this over and over and over.

Yet Imperial City was most popular when the loss was 80%.

And it would work exactly like gold not AP. AP you get for killing enemy players or finishing PvP objectives. Telvar you get for killing NPCs. Why it is different than gold is because you can lose it. There is no risk to generating coins. There is risk with Telvar. The risk needs to stay. The people that would go to Imperial City if the change were made are PvE types for the most part. You want to take away part of the reason PvP'rs go to a PvP zone to placate PvE.
If it is just the items Telvar can purchase you can do the crafting writs and use the gold to purchase from a guild trader. Let the zone stay a unique part of the game.

maxjapank · November 2021

kargen27 wrote: »

The people that would go to Imperial City if the change were made are PvE types for the most part. You want to take away part of the reason PvP'rs go to a PvP zone to placate PvE.

I'd go to IC, and all I do is pvp. I think spartaxoxo says it best here.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

The problem with the Tel-Var design, and why this design is incredibly flawed, is that it disincentives risky battles and finishing pvp fights. This is why even people who still do IC just port out to Cyro to stash and then port back into IC. It pushes people to run in comfy zergs or gank, and not much in between. Casual pvp is discouraged entirely.

If I have a certain amount of Tel-Var, I'm just gonna port out rather than risk losing it. But if you took away the Tel-Var loss or made it much, much less, then I'd stay and take my chances going toe to toe with whoever.

spartaxoxo · November 2021

kargen27 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

If there is nothing unique about Telvar (chance of losing it) then really there is no need for it to exist. We would have a PvE currency and a PvP currency. What else would we need?

IC being the only way to reliably get it is also a unique attribute. And the purpose it serves is to get people to join IC. Since the point of the change is to get people to come into IC, deleting it serves the literal opposite purpose.

It isn't unique if it becomes just like the other currencies..

It wouldn't be like those other currencies at all. PvP is inherently risky, which automatically makes it different to coins. The biggest generator of coins can even have the "work" part of it automated with the person only needing to move around to the various quest objectives on their own without breaking the rules (crafting writs). There is no risk to generating coins.

It would work similar to AP. But unlike AP, it would be limited to IC. Which makes it unique in and of itself.

The point is to make PvP in Imperial City vibrant and fun again. The potential loss/gain of Telvar is a part of that.

The loss of Tel-Var is explicitly what makes it unfun to the vast majority of people who do BGs and Cyro but not IC. They have stated this over and over and over.

Yet Imperial City was most popular when the loss was 80%.

And it would work exactly like gold not AP.

Both AP and Tel-Var are sources from PVP activities. Tel-Var would still be from PVP and have the inherent risk that comes with it. Gold doesn't have that distinction. So it would not be entirely without risk, unlike coin. It is therefore most comparable to AP.

80% was when the zone was brand new and new zones are generally crowded. It had to be reduced before because it hurting the zone and it is still doing that. The zone is dead.

The two most cited reasons for why those people don't IC is Tel-Var loss and loading screens.

You will never get those people to stay in that zone and pvp unless you address those biggest pain points in some way.

kargen27 · November 2021

"Tel-Var would still be from PVP and have the inherent risk that comes with it."

Dying to another player isn't really a risk though, just a part of the game like dying to an NPC. The risk comes from having something to lose.

My opinion is what killed Imperial City was the unintended consequences of introducing the flags. Now a balanced fight can only last a few minutes as one faction gets the advantage of quicker spawns back into the district. Open up a district a few times a month where all factions get quick release back to their balcony and I think we will have those big long lasting fights again.
So long as one faction can rez to the district and the other two must rez to either another district or the sewers there will never be the fights we had in the past.

spartaxoxo · November 2021

kargen27 wrote: »

Dying to another player isn't really a risk though

Yes. It literally is. PvP is a riskier activity than a crafting writ.

Anyway, I'll add you to the big time supporters of having a PvE Cyrodiil with full ap gains for taking keeps.

jle30303 · November 2021

kargen27 wrote: »

Yet Imperial City was most popular when the loss was 80%.

No, it was most popular when it was *newest*. The fact of the loss being 80% was one of the things that made it stop being popular. The reduction in the loss, to 50%, slowed the attrition rate, but not much. 50% is still too much to lose, especially to lose to a player who is literally risking none of THEIR OWN tel var in return.

If a ganker is carrying 0, then their gain should be 0. Put your own at risk, or don't gain anything when you win.

Obsidian3 · November 2021

I only go to IC during the events because you can earn TV really fast head down to the bank deposit and repeat. Plus there are way more people so grouping and just casual groping gives protection against the gankers. Now I used to go farm Tel-Var on my under 50 toons, because it was a lot easier to defend yourself against sub-50 level gankers. Now with power creep and procs and all that bs, exploit builds are at an all time high. Going into IC is just a colossal waste of time for solo players.

buttaface · November 2021

Entry bases should be -one- vendor, -one- bank, -one door into the pvp zone, not the confusing maze for new players entering that it -objectively- is now. You should be able to port from and to IC to/from pretty much anywhere, simply have a longer timer and award kill credit if zoning or logging used to evade death.

Have played PvP extensively in MMOs over 20 years, all the way back to Anarchy Online and Shadowbane (RIP, killed by WoW) and GW1, probably the greatest PvP MMO ever made... but not in ESO. Why? Gross overcomplication of maps, terrain and landscape, confusing sidegames, inventory bloat. All of which might be appropriate in true player asset control games, but way too much in ESO.

Needs a massive hatchet job of streamlining applied to all aspects of ESO PvP, ESPECIALLY IC.

SeaGtGruff · November 2021

jle30303 wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Yet Imperial City was most popular when the loss was 80%.

No, it was most popular when it was *newest*. The fact of the loss being 80% was one of the things that made it stop being popular. The reduction in the loss, to 50%, slowed the attrition rate, but not much. 50% is still too much to lose, especially to lose to a player who is literally risking none of THEIR OWN tel var in return.

If a ganker is carrying 0, then their gain should be 0. Put your own at risk, or don't gain anything when you win.

Actually, a ganker is at the same risk as anyone else, because (1) anything they gain by killing you could be lost to soneone else, and (2) you never know when that someone else is going to be you. You might think you're never going to win the fight, but if you fight back then you just might be surprised. And any PvP player who does win the fight is likely to keep running around the districts looking for more players to kill, instead of porting back to base ASAP to store their Tel Var in the bank, which means the average PvP player could potentially lose a lot more Tel Var than the average PvE player.

EF321 · November 2021

jle30303 wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Yet Imperial City was most popular when the loss was 80%.

No, it was most popular when it was *newest*. The fact of the loss being 80% was one of the things that made it stop being popular. The reduction in the loss, to 50%, slowed the attrition rate, but not much. 50% is still too much to lose, especially to lose to a player who is literally risking none of THEIR OWN tel var in return.

If a ganker is carrying 0, then their gain should be 0. Put your own at risk, or don't gain anything when you win.

Yes, this is the worst part of it. You waste pots fighting them, you waste time that you could have used to farm more TV, and in return you get like 16 telvar that came from them accidentally cleaving mobs while fighting/escaping you. That is, if you do win.

As been suggested, there should be either a cap on how much you can gain from kill based on how much you carry, or another incentive to discourage walking around with empty pockets. Say, some baseline imperial physique-like bonus that boosts your damage and defenses, so ganker with nothing on them would have harder time killing someone with 4x multiplier. Likewise, this will incentivize gankers to carry a lot of TV, so they have better oneshot potential.

OnThaLoose · November 2021

Let me preface by saying I'm not PVPer.
But the problem as I see it is the way its designed: Tough NPC bosses are designed to be killed by PVE players with PVE kitted gear, which in turn makes them weak in pvp fights.

The problem is in almost all cases the pvp player will defeat the pve player in a 1on1 fight, so 90% of pve players dont even go for fear of wasted time there.

I dont know of a definite solution but I personally think the TV drop rates from NPCs should be increased but TV losses from player kills should be dropped to 25% OR capped at 10k a kill, which encourages more PvE players to come to IC, in turn providing more "game" for pvp'ers to hunt, so it brings pvpers in as well. Even with a drop to 25%, if the pvpers get more kills they still make a lot of TV.

But what do I know?

AlnilamE · November 2021

spartaxoxo wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

You may not want the risk inherent to farming a PVP zone for Tel Var removed, but you do want the risk of losing Tel Var to a PVP or PVE encounter removed. I'd say that's removing all of the risk that makes Tel Var unique, making it no different than the AP or Key Fragments that are also gained despite the overarching risk of PVP.

Yeah this is about the sum of it. Where I disagree is that it would be then no different to AP or Key Fragments. Key Fragments aren't a currency and take up inventory space. And AP is obtainable in all pvp enabled zones.

Tel-Var however is only available reliably in IC. This is not a trivial unique element or unimportant. Because this gives people an incentive to pvp specifically in IC rather than Cyro or BGs.

And if you remove Tel Var loss, then it will be the same as key fragments, whether they occupy inventory or not.

Currently right now I have seen two big paint points discussed again and again and again from the "I do bgs and cyro but not IC" crowd, and that is "too many loading screens" and "don't like losing Tel-Var."

People have different tastes. I do Cyrodiil and IC, but dislike Battlegrounds. And no change you can make the BGs is going to make me do them. Whereas removing the load screens for grabbing the dailies in IC will make me go there more. But I don't think Tel Var loss should be removed, unless Tel Var itself is removed altogether.

The problem with the Tel-Var design, and why this design is incredibly flawed, is that it disincentives risky battles and finishing pvp fights. This is why even people who still do IC just port out to Cyro to stash and then port back into IC. It pushes people to run in comfy zergs or gank, and not much in between. Casual pvp is discouraged entirely.

If you engage in these kinds of fights, you lose out on most of the reason you were in the zone in the first place. If you take a fight you don't win in any other pvp zone, you don't lose anything. Thus it is not worth it to go in alone or smaller scale or with a toon that is merely used casually in pvp without being particularly strong. People who aren't looking for loot but mostly looking for fights also don't bother because the low population as a result of this means they are better off doing BG if they want something smaller scale, despite IC in theory offering them better rewards.

OK, but where does anyone engage in "risky battles" in PvP? If you remove the Tel Var loss, then you remove the risk, so whatever battle you have, it's not going to be "risky" because nobody is losing anything.

Meanwhile, I mentioned earlier in the thread that I was in IC once with my PvE guild and we were attacked and somehow managed to kill the attackers and we ended up with over 1000 tel var each from that. So the gankers took a risk and they lost their gamble. And this was to a PvE group.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Dying to another player isn't really a risk though

Yes. It literally is. PvP is a riskier activity than a crafting writ.

Anyway, I'll add you to the big time supporters of having a PvE Cyrodiil with full ap gains for taking keeps.

Yes, but there is no real difference between dying to a world boss and dying to a player except the ability to rez on the spot.

OnThaLoose wrote: »

Let me preface by saying I'm not PVPer.
But the problem as I see it is the way its designed: Tough NPC bosses are designed to be killed by PVE players with PVE kitted gear, which in turn makes them weak in pvp fights.

The problem is in almost all cases the pvp player will defeat the pve player in a 1on1 fight, so 90% of pve players dont even go for fear of wasted time there.

I dont know of a definite solution but I personally think the TV drop rates from NPCs should be increased but TV losses from player kills should be dropped to 25% OR capped at 10k a kill, which encourages more PvE players to come to IC, in turn providing more "game" for pvp'ers to hunt, so it brings pvpers in as well. Even with a drop to 25%, if the pvpers get more kills they still make a lot of TV.

But what do I know?

"Capped at 10k a kill"?? This just proves (again) that I'm not a gambler. I've never had 10k Tel Var on a character, and I've spent quite a few hours in IC.

kargen27 · November 2021

jle30303 wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Yet Imperial City was most popular when the loss was 80%.

No, it was most popular when it was *newest*. The fact of the loss being 80% was one of the things that made it stop being popular. The reduction in the loss, to 50%, slowed the attrition rate, but not much. 50% is still too much to lose, especially to lose to a player who is literally risking none of THEIR OWN tel var in return.

If a ganker is carrying 0, then their gain should be 0. Put your own at risk, or don't gain anything when you win.

I agree and said as much earlier in the thread. Others pointed out problems with that idea. How to award stones on 3x1 kills and what about the PvP'r that just dropped into the zone and defended himself successfully against someone. He would get no stones but he didn't initiate the attack.

kargen27 · November 2021

spartaxoxo wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Dying to another player isn't really a risk though

Yes. It literally is. PvP is a riskier activity than a crafting writ.

Anyway, I'll add you to the big time supporters of having a PvE Cyrodiil with full ap gains for taking keeps.

yeah because we have been discussing Cyrodiil and PvE. And because I think Imperial City should be kept unique I also automatically believe skeevers should one shot everybody that gets within thirty meters of them in all the PvE zones except Coldharbor.

spartaxoxo · November 2021

AlnilamE wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

You may not want the risk inherent to farming a PVP zone for Tel Var removed, but you do want the risk of losing Tel Var to a PVP or PVE encounter removed. I'd say that's removing all of the risk that makes Tel Var unique, making it no different than the AP or Key Fragments that are also gained despite the overarching risk of PVP.

Yeah this is about the sum of it. Where I disagree is that it would be then no different to AP or Key Fragments. Key Fragments aren't a currency and take up inventory space. And AP is obtainable in all pvp enabled zones.

Tel-Var however is only available reliably in IC. This is not a trivial unique element or unimportant. Because this gives people an incentive to pvp specifically in IC rather than Cyro or BGs.

And if you remove Tel Var loss, then it will be the same as key fragments, whether they occupy inventory or not.

Nope. Key fragments are much more limited in how they are spent and occupy inventory space. So they aren't the same. A currency isn't the same as vault key that is for incredibly specific items.

It makes no sense to remove Tel-Var to increase participation to IC. Tel-Var is the reason to do IC but currently it's risk reward ratio is completely inappropriate and actively discourages pvp.

OK, but where does anyone engage in "risky battles" in PvP? If you remove the Tel Var loss, then you remove the risk, so whatever battle you have, it's not going to be "risky" because nobody is losing anything.

So I can chalk you down into the PvE Cyrodiil club too. Got it.

spartaxoxo · November 2021

kargen27 wrote: »

lyeah because we have been discussing Cyrodiil and PvE.

No. But obviously you must support it. After all there's no risk difference between doing PvP and PvE in the pvp zones. So there's zero reason not to support a PvE Cyrodiil. It certainly wouldn't be handing out AP risk free to give it for a PvE Cyrodiil. Let's farm them keeps with our trial gear. 💪

Nemeliom · November 2021

Jeremy wrote: »

MCBIZZLE300 wrote: »

So many fond memories of mine have been during an imperial city event that come once a year when its populated. I really think that Imperial city is wasted content outside of the annual double telvar event and its a waste. My idea is to make the Imperial city a separate campaign with monthly rewards like cyrodiil including transmute crystals, a bonus amount of telvar and imperial city gear sets each month. I think there needs to be more of a reason to enter the imperial city, seeing as there are problems with performance in cyrodiil with no answer in sight. I like possibly many others have been staying away from eso pvp as of late due to performance and I really think a revamped imperial city would be welcomed with open arms by most of us. Please let me know if any of you agree/ thoughts. I love this games combat and miss it greatly.

I've suggested giving it its own monthly campaign too. It would help.

.

It's as simple as this. Really. Give IC its own campaign and see it flourish.

LordRukia · November 2021

spartaxoxo wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Might as well remove Tel Var then.

It's the way AP works and Cyrodiil has a healthier pop. You can prevent someone from earning AP but not take the AP they already managed to get. The same being true of Tel-Var would lead it to being more casual friendly drawing in a larger crowd. I do think it would require making some of the Tel-Var items more expensive though.

Like the number one sticking point that so many of those casual pvp players cite about why they don't do IC but will do Cyro or BGs sometimes is the Tel-Var issue. I don't think it's worth killing the entire zone's population so much of the year just to have this mechanic. It has taken away from pvp more than it has given.

People need to have incentive to go in there and then they will get dragged into fights.

New Districts that are ultra pvp heavy will bring in some of the players that are more dedicated to PVP but hate all the loading screens.

And a bit easier time getting stuff done there will bring in casuals.

Probably won't ever get as big as Cyro but at least it would be better than the largely dead zones you have whenever there is no event.

There needs to be a middle ground, not a carebear pve zone where everyone just avoids pvp like the plague because that will be equally as dumb. It would totally ruin pricing, since there would be 0 risk in farming it. Someone kills you ? Who cares if you can't lose any telvar. Removing the risk would likely bring in some pve farmers but let's not pretend like this is what killed ic instead of flags and load screens ,so many changes thru the years , it's just a pain in the ass.

spartaxoxo · November 2021

LordRukia wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Might as well remove Tel Var then.

It's the way AP works and Cyrodiil has a healthier pop. You can prevent someone from earning AP but not take the AP they already managed to get. The same being true of Tel-Var would lead it to being more casual friendly drawing in a larger crowd. I do think it would require making some of the Tel-Var items more expensive though.

Like the number one sticking point that so many of those casual pvp players cite about why they don't do IC but will do Cyro or BGs sometimes is the Tel-Var issue. I don't think it's worth killing the entire zone's population so much of the year just to have this mechanic. It has taken away from pvp more than it has given.

People need to have incentive to go in there and then they will get dragged into fights.

New Districts that are ultra pvp heavy will bring in some of the players that are more dedicated to PVP but hate all the loading screens.

And a bit easier time getting stuff done there will bring in casuals.

Probably won't ever get as big as Cyro but at least it would be better than the largely dead zones you have whenever there is no event.

There needs to be a middle ground, not a carebear pve zone where everyone just avoids pvp like the plague because that will be equally as dumb. It would totally ruin pricing, since there would be 0 risk in farming it. Someone kills you ? Who cares if you can't lose any telvar. Removing the risk would likely bring in some pve farmers but let's not pretend like this is what killed ic instead of flags and load screens ,so many changes thru the years , it's just a pain in the ass.

TIl that Cyrodiil is a care bear PvE zone. So is Battlegrounds. Interesting.

MCBIZZLE300 · December 2021

Nemeliom wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

MCBIZZLE300 wrote: »

So many fond memories of mine have been during an imperial city event that come once a year when its populated. I really think that Imperial city is wasted content outside of the annual double telvar event and its a waste. My idea is to make the Imperial city a separate campaign with monthly rewards like cyrodiil including transmute crystals, a bonus amount of telvar and imperial city gear sets each month. I think there needs to be more of a reason to enter the imperial city, seeing as there are problems with performance in cyrodiil with no answer in sight. I like possibly many others have been staying away from eso pvp as of late due to performance and I really think a revamped imperial city would be welcomed with open arms by most of us. Please let me know if any of you agree/ thoughts. I love this games combat and miss it greatly.

I've suggested giving it its own monthly campaign too. It would help.

.

It's as simple as this. Really. Give IC its own campaign and see it flourish.

I'm glad some people agree atleast, this thread has seemed to have gone off topic fast.

Iron_Warrior · December 2021

As a solo player i have been avoiding IC like a plague for years because of the tel var loss. I have enough problems in real, don't want to be frustrated in a video game too. On the other hand i can't accept that tel var loss is high risk high reward mechanic because it is not. Example: i'm walking in IC with 20k telvar, what is my reward? Getting the x4 multiplier. What is the risk? Losing half of it. Now lets's look at our sneaky ganker with 0 telvars in his pocket. What is his high reward? Killing me and getting 10k telvars, and what is his high risk? NOTHING. That's right he is not putting anything on the line. He has nothing to lose and everything to gain. How can anyone call that high risk high reward? I agree this currency and mechanic is unique, a unique trash.so what can be done about it?

A) completely remove telvar loss

B ) make it truly high risk high reward for both sides. So if a ganker wants to steal 10k of my telvars he should also have 20k in his pocket. If he has 10k in his pocket while i have 20k he should only get 5k if he kills me because that's what i will get for killing him.so a ganker with zero telvars should be able to steal zero telvars.if you want to win something you should also put something on the line yourself.

Tommy_The_Gun · December 2021

Tbh. Imperial City was never a "great" content to begin with. I still remember the day it was announced and people on stage were clearly avoiding questions about mixed PvP & PvE. So the impression was that it will be a PvE zone with some new PvP elements. People were speculating that arena district and area around White Gold tower will be new PvP activities.

Later on, when test server started (closed tests, not pts), it turned out to be pretty much entirely a PvP zone. So in the end... they (ZOS) were not lying. There are PvE only areas in IC that include Alliance home base & crafting set rooms...

In general, IC was received very poorly by the player base. It is a dead content for most of the time and only populated during events. But even during events it is not fully populated and very often different IC campaigns are "mained" by one faction (example: 3 bar EP, but empty AD & DC as players from each faction want to avoid PvP as much as possible).

IC & it's amazing "popularity" is the reason why we don't see more mixed PvP & PvE content. Because it just does not work. If it worked and players liked it - there would be more of it.

As for the "how to make it great again"... can something be "great again" if it never was great to begin with ? Probably not. But I guess there is still a way to make it populated & enjoyable. And, unfortunately, the only way to do that is to split mixed PvP & PvE into a separate zones.
I am pretty sure that it would make a lot of people happy, even if it would mean no tel-var & AP & some achievements for PvE-ers. Also, it would make PvP-ers happy as they could fight vs other true PvP-ers without questers taking up population bars.

The only one who would kinda lose is the type of "PvP-ers" (ye, I have put that in quote for a reason lol) who are just there to pray on the PvE-ers... which would be good I guess. Less toxic players means better gameplay experience for everyone.

Necrotech_Master · December 2021

i feel like i may be in the minority here, but IC has always been one of my absolutely favorite zones

i loved farming there when it first came out because it was a huge boon to making gold due to being the only place to get ruby mats until they were added to craglorn (back in the days of vet levels and decon drops was the only way to get ruby mats and single ruby ingots were selling for like 300g a piece)

i personally tend to enjoy the sewers more than the surface, almost everytime ive made a new toon i like to get to level 10 and just xp farm in the sewer (and in the process getting tel var and key frags), on my other toons i like to test soloing the banner bosses because they can be challenging (with you being under battle spirit debuff as well as most of the banner guys having heals and some very hard hitting attacks)

back in the original IC, you only lost like 20% tel var when dying to NPC vs the higher amount dying to player, so it made it advantageous to let an NPC get the kill shot on you to lose less tel var, now i feel it is a lot more balanced with it being 50% lost when dying from either source as it makes me actually attempt to try to stay alive instead of nosediving to an npc

something i think a lot of poeple may forget/dont know is that tel var can be deposited into the bank, and i absolutely make a point to deposit 100% of my tel var into the bank everytime i go back to base, so even if im out and about and lose 4k tel var because of a ganker, i still have 4k tel var to deposit

soloing the banner bosses in the sewer is already good reward (x3 multiplier can get you 1800 tel var for solo kill, since the amount they drop is divided amongst the poeple who helped fight it, one of the very few things in the game to support more than the 12 player cap on bosses since tel var is granted immediately on kill instead of requiring to loot the corpse)

my ideas for the best improvements to IC:

add set drops to bosses OR reduce tel var cost to buy the boxes OR both
add more items to buy with tel var from the general merchant
add furnishing items to buy with tel var (there is an achievement furnisher that sells items for tel var, but only 2 items and neither are tradeable)
for the love of god change the sigil of imperial retreat to be "bound" instead of "character bound" (like keep recall stones which are BOUND, and able to store in the bank)

Bradyfjord · December 2021

I won't pvp in IC because of the Telvar loss. Not even during an event.

geonsocal · December 2021

redspecter23 wrote: »

My opinion only, but the day they added flags and potentially forced double load screens or a multi zone run to get back into combat was the day I lost interest in IC.

I remember the massive 3 way battles in IC and instant rez to get back into the fight. I miss those days.

it's so weird that most of the players still around from the beginning all know this...either zos doesn't care, can't revert the flag thing or who knows...

so many of us are saying the exact same thing over and over...

pretty significant failure on keeping IC a viable and fun pvp zone...

shadyjane62 · December 2021

It would be great again if it disappeared. Permanently.

AlnilamE · December 2021

shadyjane62 wrote: »

It would be great again if it disappeared. Permanently.

You don't have to go there OR acknowledge its existence.