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Stale new Meta
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Gaebriel0410✭✭✭✭✭hcbigdogdoghc wrote: »Gaebriel0410 wrote: »hcbigdogdoghc wrote: »
Alas, 'meme' doesn't mean 'something I dislike'.
Playing meta already throws diversity out of the window, as having a single best mathematical (theoretical) setup is already objectively, unequivocally what meta is. It's a sacrifice you choose to make to achieve the holy CHIM of dps bragging rights.
You're gimping your own enjoyment by adhering to what others calculate and dictate.
See what I did there?
Seem pretty selfish holding back the entire group, making things harder for everyone for merely "personal enjoyment"
Imagine if tank use leeching plate and sweet roll set because fun.
Oh sweet summer child, I'm much more '''''''''selfish'''''''' than that.
My character, and by extent me as his puppeteer, have committed the following offenses:
- He's a Breton, his setups are tank and... stamina deeps.
- In DPS spec I don't use traps (since melee traps are, let us call it 'meme').
- I tank as a templar.
- I will not tank with a staff on backbar, staves are for wizards.
- I think Ebon is quite redundant (and let's be honest, boring) in 4 man dungeons.
- I don't use poisons as DPS since ew, poison is for dark elves and illustrious knaves of ill repute. Y'all need the Divines.
I'm probably guilty of holding my groups back for a precious 30 seconds here and there, but then again I'm also a fierce proponent of the highly inefficient 'good evening' in groups, and with my mediocre typing speed that likely shaves off about 3 seconds from an optimal vet run.36 -
_Zathras_✭✭✭✭✭
✭Gaebriel0410 wrote: »hcbigdogdoghc wrote: »Gaebriel0410 wrote: »hcbigdogdoghc wrote: »
Alas, 'meme' doesn't mean 'something I dislike'.
Playing meta already throws diversity out of the window, as having a single best mathematical (theoretical) setup is already objectively, unequivocally what meta is. It's a sacrifice you choose to make to achieve the holy CHIM of dps bragging rights.
You're gimping your own enjoyment by adhering to what others calculate and dictate.
See what I did there?
Seem pretty selfish holding back the entire group, making things harder for everyone for merely "personal enjoyment"
Imagine if tank use leeching plate and sweet roll set because fun.
Oh sweet summer child, I'm much more '''''''''selfish'''''''' than that.
My character, and by extent me as his puppeteer, have committed the following offenses:
- He's a Breton, his setups are tank and... stamina deeps.
- In DPS spec I don't use traps (since melee traps are, let us call it 'meme').
- I tank as a templar.
- I will not tank with a staff on backbar, staves are for wizards.
- I think Ebon is quite redundant (and let's be honest, boring) in 4 man dungeons.
- I don't use poisons as DPS since ew, poison is for dark elves and illustrious knaves of ill repute. Y'all need the Divines.
I'm probably guilty of holding my groups back for a precious 30 seconds here and there, but then again I'm also a fierce proponent of the highly inefficient 'good evening' in groups, and with my mediocre typing speed that likely shaves off about 3 seconds from an optimal vet run.
I love you
Edited by _Zathras_ on November 3, 2021 9:46PM13 -
Dojohoda✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I have to farm me some Bah/Kinra.Fan of playing magblade since 2015. (PC NA)
Might be joking in comments.
-->(((Cyrodiil)))<--2 -
MudcrabAttack✭✭✭✭✭Why should stamina wear bahsei over relequen? If they only have 10k magicka, the magic tank will be too full for too much of the time. They’ll only cast a couple magic skills per rotation and magic will be averaging 1/3 full or more. An average of 10% damage multiplier is really just 8% because it gets watered down by other multipliers. And if they try to dynamically recast a magic skill as soon as enough magic is in the tank they’ll be sacrificing too much dps by using a less optimal rotationEdited by MudcrabAttack on November 3, 2021 10:59PM6 -
MudcrabAttack✭✭✭✭✭Also why does running meta matter so much when other options are just a few percent less? I’m in a trial guild who could care less what you bring, and those who look up and run the meta mage setups are usually behind the average dps in the group. The rest at the top of the list are running whatever they feel like, usually stamina bow builds that have perfect weaving. Sometimes they just show up in whatever looks fun at the moment and still tear up trials. Just have fun with the game5
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Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm running rele & sorrow on my magsorc or yandir & medusa, getting higher dps in trials than my previous setup.0 -
xeNNNNN✭✭✭✭✭
✭Gaebriel0410 wrote: »hcbigdogdoghc wrote: »
Alas, 'meme' doesn't mean 'something I dislike'.
Playing meta already throws diversity out of the window, as having a single best mathematical (theoretical) setup is already objectively, unequivocally what meta is. It's a sacrifice you choose to make to achieve the holy CHIM of dps bragging rights.
You're gimping your own enjoyment by adhering to what others calculate and dictate.
See what I did there?
Ehhhh
I think the problem here is like, before with previous patches, expansions or w/e there has been meta sets that are obviously bis but then there have been builds that come in a close second and give people some variety.
When its just one set up that is the most effective by a wide margin there really isn't a good reason not to run it in raids and dungeons or w/e. Even the people who like just using their own builds will run the best set ups for raids because they want to clear that raid quicker and better than before and so forth and don't like handicapping themselves just to spite the meta.
There are cases where that doesn't fully apply of course like if someone has a different build for a slower rotation because they have physical reasons for it or something like that. But yeah generally speaking....its boring [snip].
[edited for profanity bypass]Edited by ZOS_Icy on November 5, 2021 10:15AMAh, e-communities - the "pinnacle" of the internet............yeah, right.1 -
xeNNNNN✭✭✭✭✭
✭Gaebriel0410 wrote: »hcbigdogdoghc wrote: »Gaebriel0410 wrote: »hcbigdogdoghc wrote: »
Alas, 'meme' doesn't mean 'something I dislike'.
Playing meta already throws diversity out of the window, as having a single best mathematical (theoretical) setup is already objectively, unequivocally what meta is. It's a sacrifice you choose to make to achieve the holy CHIM of dps bragging rights.
You're gimping your own enjoyment by adhering to what others calculate and dictate.
See what I did there?
Seem pretty selfish holding back the entire group, making things harder for everyone for merely "personal enjoyment"
Imagine if tank use leeching plate and sweet roll set because fun.
Oh sweet summer child, I'm much more '''''''''selfish'''''''' than that.
My character, and by extent me as his puppeteer, have committed the following offenses:
- He's a Breton, his setups are tank and... stamina deeps.
- In DPS spec I don't use traps (since melee traps are, let us call it 'meme').
- I tank as a templar.
- I will not tank with a staff on backbar, staves are for wizards.
- I think Ebon is quite redundant (and let's be honest, boring) in 4 man dungeons.
- I don't use poisons as DPS since ew, poison is for dark elves and illustrious knaves of ill repute. Y'all need the Divines.
I'm probably guilty of holding my groups back for a precious 30 seconds here and there, but then again I'm also a fierce proponent of the highly inefficient 'good evening' in groups, and with my mediocre typing speed that likely shaves off about 3 seconds from an optimal vet run.
I want to make you president (of something). I also want to throw you in the gallows.
I am confused. This is a conundrum I cannot solve.Ah, e-communities - the "pinnacle" of the internet............yeah, right.5 -
hcbigdogdoghc✭✭✭✭✭hcbigdogdoghc wrote: »Gaebriel0410 wrote: »hcbigdogdoghc wrote: »
Alas, 'meme' doesn't mean 'something I dislike'.
Playing meta already throws diversity out of the window, as having a single best mathematical (theoretical) setup is already objectively, unequivocally what meta is. It's a sacrifice you choose to make to achieve the holy CHIM of dps bragging rights.
You're gimping your own enjoyment by adhering to what others calculate and dictate.
See what I did there?
Seem pretty selfish holding back the entire group, making things harder for everyone for merely "personal enjoyment"
Imagine if tank use leeching plate and sweet roll set because fun.
Aren't games for "personal enjoyment"?
You are sacrificing 11 other people's personal enjoyment for your own, so selfish is definitely the right word to describe this2 -
Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭How is everyone liking everyone regardless of setup running the exact same Bah/Kinra now? Seems like Diversity in classes and specs are Dead now
this makes no sense to me. people say "now there is only one meta bis build" but last update there was already only 1 BiS setup. stam dps wasn't a thing, so as far as i can see it's situation normal?
What exactly has changed?1 -
xeNNNNN✭✭✭✭✭
✭hcbigdogdoghc wrote: »hcbigdogdoghc wrote: »Gaebriel0410 wrote: »hcbigdogdoghc wrote: »
Alas, 'meme' doesn't mean 'something I dislike'.
Playing meta already throws diversity out of the window, as having a single best mathematical (theoretical) setup is already objectively, unequivocally what meta is. It's a sacrifice you choose to make to achieve the holy CHIM of dps bragging rights.
You're gimping your own enjoyment by adhering to what others calculate and dictate.
See what I did there?
Seem pretty selfish holding back the entire group, making things harder for everyone for merely "personal enjoyment"
Imagine if tank use leeching plate and sweet roll set because fun.
Aren't games for "personal enjoyment"?
You are sacrificing 11 other people's personal enjoyment for your own, so selfish is definitely the right word to describe this
*shrugs* isn't that somewhat dependent on the people you're playing with having the mindset that the lack of BiS gear equipped is a waste of time?
I've ran with plenty of people who didn't wear meta gear doing raids and so forth. People absolutely can do it, provided the groups fine with it.
As there is no group finder for raids (I wish their was it would be fun) the only place I can really see that argument sticking is in group finder for dungeons.Ah, e-communities - the "pinnacle" of the internet............yeah, right.8 -
Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭hcbigdogdoghc wrote: »hcbigdogdoghc wrote: »Gaebriel0410 wrote: »hcbigdogdoghc wrote: »
Alas, 'meme' doesn't mean 'something I dislike'.
Playing meta already throws diversity out of the window, as having a single best mathematical (theoretical) setup is already objectively, unequivocally what meta is. It's a sacrifice you choose to make to achieve the holy CHIM of dps bragging rights.
You're gimping your own enjoyment by adhering to what others calculate and dictate.
See what I did there?
Seem pretty selfish holding back the entire group, making things harder for everyone for merely "personal enjoyment"
Imagine if tank use leeching plate and sweet roll set because fun.
Aren't games for "personal enjoyment"?
You are sacrificing 11 other people's personal enjoyment for your own, so selfish is definitely the right word to describe this
*shrugs* isn't that somewhat dependent on the people you're playing with having the mindset that the lack of BiS gear equipped is a waste of time?
I've ran with plenty of people who didn't wear meta gear doing raids and so forth. People absolutely can do it, provided the groups fine with it.
As there is no group finder for raids (I wish their was it would be fun) the only place I can really see that argument sticking is in group finder for dungeons.
I've also seen plenty of people in the "meta" setup doing 9% of the dps while someone wearing their preferred off meta setup are doing 16%. Would they do more in the BiS? probably, but I can tell you who I'm more concerned about as the raid lead...8 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭hcbigdogdoghc wrote: »Gaebriel0410 wrote: »hcbigdogdoghc wrote: »
Alas, 'meme' doesn't mean 'something I dislike'.
Playing meta already throws diversity out of the window, as having a single best mathematical (theoretical) setup is already objectively, unequivocally what meta is. It's a sacrifice you choose to make to achieve the holy CHIM of dps bragging rights.
You're gimping your own enjoyment by adhering to what others calculate and dictate.
See what I did there?
Seem pretty selfish holding back the entire group, making things harder for everyone for merely "personal enjoyment"
Imagine if tank use leeching plate and sweet roll set because fun.
Aren't games for "personal enjoyment"?
They are and it is only a small percentage of the player base that even tries to eek out every drop of damage and such. Leaderboards are not what most people are trying to do. While it is good to discuss things that can help improve someone's damage, some good sets have been mentioned here that are just fine for the masses and can be used in clears of most if not all PvE content in the game.4 -
Kwoung✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I am just sad that the meta got stale after only 2.5 days. Doesn't it usually take 3-4 days before it gets stale? Guess I will just stick with my False Gods and Mothers Sorrow for yet another patch cycle.
Edited by Kwoung on November 4, 2021 5:39AM2 -
fizl101✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭How is everyone liking everyone regardless of setup running the exact same Bah/Kinra now? Seems like Diversity in classes and specs are Dead now
this makes no sense to me. people say "now there is only one meta bis build" but last update there was already only 1 BiS setup. stam dps wasn't a thing, so as far as i can see it's situation normal?
What exactly has changed?
Stam DPS still exists and still runs hard content once you get past the pervasive idea that its easier running all mag so stam aren't welcomeSoupy twist2 -
Katlefiya✭✭✭✭✭hcbigdogdoghc wrote: »hcbigdogdoghc wrote: »Gaebriel0410 wrote: »hcbigdogdoghc wrote: »
Alas, 'meme' doesn't mean 'something I dislike'.
Playing meta already throws diversity out of the window, as having a single best mathematical (theoretical) setup is already objectively, unequivocally what meta is. It's a sacrifice you choose to make to achieve the holy CHIM of dps bragging rights.
You're gimping your own enjoyment by adhering to what others calculate and dictate.
See what I did there?
Seem pretty selfish holding back the entire group, making things harder for everyone for merely "personal enjoyment"
Imagine if tank use leeching plate and sweet roll set because fun.
Aren't games for "personal enjoyment"?
You are sacrificing 11 other people's personal enjoyment for your own, so selfish is definitely the right word to describe this
If by "other people's personal enjoyment" you actually mean getting over with content as fast as possible, avoiding boss mechanics [snip], then I am probably guilty of that sacrifice. No, wait, I'm not. I will not group with such people, it's that simple.
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on November 5, 2021 10:17AM13 -
Lady_Galadhiel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭hcbigdogdoghc wrote: »hcbigdogdoghc wrote: »Gaebriel0410 wrote: »hcbigdogdoghc wrote: »
Alas, 'meme' doesn't mean 'something I dislike'.
Playing meta already throws diversity out of the window, as having a single best mathematical (theoretical) setup is already objectively, unequivocally what meta is. It's a sacrifice you choose to make to achieve the holy CHIM of dps bragging rights.
You're gimping your own enjoyment by adhering to what others calculate and dictate.
See what I did there?
Seem pretty selfish holding back the entire group, making things harder for everyone for merely "personal enjoyment"
Imagine if tank use leeching plate and sweet roll set because fun.
Aren't games for "personal enjoyment"?
You are sacrificing 11 other people's personal enjoyment for your own, so selfish is definitely the right word to describe this
You need to see it like this,95% of the ESO players aren't end game players so they dont care for BiS gear or meta builds.For most content you simply dont need it and can play how you like and with what you want.
Is it good? Is it bad? It is on you to decide.Total ESO playtime: 8325 hours
ESO plus status: Cancelled
ESO currently uninstalled.0 -
CoronHR✭✭✭✭✭
✭i mentioned lack of diversity in a previous post.
there is always going to be a bis, and many players think they have to have that bis set to be good, but that's never true.
there are a handful of sets to choose from, albeit not a huge handful, but you can mix and match from enough sets for each role for variety's sake if you choose to do so.
don't let the current top meta, whatever that is, pigeonhole you into running 18 chars with nearly identical setups. not necessary, and very boringPC EU - Steam client0 -
Ksariyu✭✭✭✭Yeah, I'm pretty sure I've seen this post for the past three years, nearly every patch cycle when the new meta comes in because there's literally always been the "best" setup. The only difference now is there's only one meta DPS set instead of two, not that you'd ever notice the difference between a stam build and a mag build anyway, they play exactly the same.
So yeah, I'm enjoying ignoring the meta exactly as much as I did last patch.1 -
Coatmagic✭✭✭✭✭
✭Not changed my gear. Only do overland stuff so it doesn't matter. Playing nekked is fun too 0 -
Before patch, meta for mag was Kilt+bahsei+medusa (ms, siroria, dv - all with the exception of dv sets that have been meta for ages), monster sets were dead except for maybe zaan and if you were wearing anything else you would be actively gimping yourself. Now you have SO MUCH variety not only in terms of 5 pc sets, but in terms of monster sets too. You don't even need to suffer with kilt to get to 100k anymore - monster sets, a *variety* of monster sets will get you there no problem.
Bahsei+kinras aren't the only good sets now. You can combine bahsei with rele or AY too and you will get the same results really. Or you can ditch bahsei entirely. Hell you can do close to 100k in z'en+kinras+monster set setup. I made a bsw+rele setup just for the giggles and it's not even much worse! And the best part is - old meta still works. You can still hit 100k in your bahsei+siroria+kilt.
This patch is really a breath of fresh air. There have *never* been so many options in PvE.@supersonic_kitten PC EU3 -
vivisectvib16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭hcbigdogdoghc wrote: »Gaebriel0410 wrote: »hcbigdogdoghc wrote: »
Alas, 'meme' doesn't mean 'something I dislike'.
Playing meta already throws diversity out of the window, as having a single best mathematical (theoretical) setup is already objectively, unequivocally what meta is. It's a sacrifice you choose to make to achieve the holy CHIM of dps bragging rights.
You're gimping your own enjoyment by adhering to what others calculate and dictate.
See what I did there?
Seem pretty selfish holding back the entire group, making things harder for everyone for merely "personal enjoyment"
Imagine if tank use leeching plate and sweet roll set because fun.
It's almost as if end game group members coordinate with eachother and agree on who needs to be wearing what sets for the content they're doing. 🙄Edited by vivisectvib16_ESO on November 4, 2021 12:26PM2 -
Galaen_Frost✭✭✭I don't run BiS gear yet I still have about 5 different sets in my personal trunk that I switch between depending on what got nerfed last for me. Only one of them has yet to see a nerf hammering and they seriously aren't anywhere near the best sets for Stamina DPS. Sometimes I log in after being away for months and hit the trifecta of gear, CP and skill resets. Such is life under the rule of Meta.
Wandering the lands of Tamriel, waiting for the hammer to drop.0 -
Snow_White✭✭✭Meta for what? Dummy humping? Not every fight is a parse fight.Edited by Snow_White on November 4, 2021 2:59PM6 -
Franchise408✭✭✭✭✭
✭hcbigdogdoghc wrote: »hcbigdogdoghc wrote: »Gaebriel0410 wrote: »hcbigdogdoghc wrote: »
Alas, 'meme' doesn't mean 'something I dislike'.
Playing meta already throws diversity out of the window, as having a single best mathematical (theoretical) setup is already objectively, unequivocally what meta is. It's a sacrifice you choose to make to achieve the holy CHIM of dps bragging rights.
You're gimping your own enjoyment by adhering to what others calculate and dictate.
See what I did there?
Seem pretty selfish holding back the entire group, making things harder for everyone for merely "personal enjoyment"
Imagine if tank use leeching plate and sweet roll set because fun.
Aren't games for "personal enjoyment"?
You are sacrificing 11 other people's personal enjoyment for your own, so selfish is definitely the right word to describe this
Huh? How are you sacrificing 11 other people's enjoyment?
Are you suggesting that you must be BiS in order to participate in end-game content? Because you're wrong. 100% wrong.
To clear content, you don't require more than about 30k-40k for even vet DLC trials. The 50k, 60k, 70k, 80k, 90k requirements are entirely unnecessary, and are only in place for groups to bypass mechanics and get done as fast as possible.
I run a vet trial group. I wear 0 meta sets on my tank (Crimson Twilight, Grave Guardian, Lord Warden). I *have* the meta sets if necessary, but my group actually prefers I don't use them, because they prefer my stability with my "selfish" sets that keep me alive, and the healers know they don't have to worry about me and can worry about buffing DPS and keeping them alive. I have no idea what the other members of my group are wearing. I require 0 sets to be used. I have no idea what any of my DPS parse. I require 0 parses to be submitted. I am pretty sure that I have members of my group that parse less than 30k. The only coordination that really goes on is between my healers, who communicate sets with each other so they don't overlap. We are still making progress and getting clears in vet trial content.
So what's this about "sacrificing 11 other people's enjoyment"?
My enjoyment isn't sacrificed when my group members come in with parses and sets that I have no idea what they are because I don't even ask.
Their enjoyment isn't sacrificed when I am purposefully and intentionally wearing off-meta sets and they even ask me to.
Sounds like you've been swayed by the voices that say that meta is the only way to play the game - but there is no basis in reality for those claims. Meta isn't needed for completion of even 1 piece of content in this game.7 -
woe✭✭✭✭I was a fan of being able to use a lot of sets but I feel like this wasn't the right way to do it. It just feels like there is even less of a gap choosing a magicka or stamina class. I wish there were more sets that could be used so there wasn't a "best" or "meta" setup while still maintaining a unique set of skills/abilities for being a magicka or stamina character.uwu1 -
cyberjanet✭✭✭✭✭And here I thought rotation was more important than sets. Silly me.Favourite NPC: Wine-For-All
Mostly PC-EU , with a lonely little guy on NA.2 -
xeNNNNN✭✭✭✭✭
✭hcbigdogdoghc wrote: »hcbigdogdoghc wrote: »Gaebriel0410 wrote: »hcbigdogdoghc wrote: »
Alas, 'meme' doesn't mean 'something I dislike'.
Playing meta already throws diversity out of the window, as having a single best mathematical (theoretical) setup is already objectively, unequivocally what meta is. It's a sacrifice you choose to make to achieve the holy CHIM of dps bragging rights.
You're gimping your own enjoyment by adhering to what others calculate and dictate.
See what I did there?
Seem pretty selfish holding back the entire group, making things harder for everyone for merely "personal enjoyment"
Imagine if tank use leeching plate and sweet roll set because fun.
Aren't games for "personal enjoyment"?
You are sacrificing 11 other people's personal enjoyment for your own, so selfish is definitely the right word to describe this
*shrugs* isn't that somewhat dependent on the people you're playing with having the mindset that the lack of BiS gear equipped is a waste of time?
I've ran with plenty of people who didn't wear meta gear doing raids and so forth. People absolutely can do it, provided the groups fine with it.
As there is no group finder for raids (I wish their was it would be fun) the only place I can really see that argument sticking is in group finder for dungeons.
I've also seen plenty of people in the "meta" setup doing 9% of the dps while someone wearing their preferred off meta setup are doing 16%. Would they do more in the BiS? probably, but I can tell you who I'm more concerned about as the raid lead...
I mean sure, but even the raid leader has their limits of responsibility. I think in the end it just depends on what kind of group you're with and what the priorities are. But I do think people tend to gravitate towards meta even those who want to have fun and don't necessarily have a great amount of skill because they still want to do well.
I guess what everyone here wants is the meta to be more flexible.
The raid group I ran with my friends a while back made the point that we have a recruitment DPS requirement of 40k with 50-60k being preferred. The reason for that was because we wanted to have fun but also we wanted to complete the content reasonably. We took on people without high DPS (half the group) and still completed most raids (pre-kynes) so I think the meta only matters as much as the skill of the person using the sets which is why group mentality is important.
Ah, e-communities - the "pinnacle" of the internet............yeah, right.1