Armory Assistant restrictions

Amottica · October 2021

Vevvev wrote: »

LeonAkando wrote: »

Everyone unanimously agrees that the PVP restrictions are good but there is some debate on the timed competitive PVE swapping.

PvP restrictions are nice, but it'd be neat if at the Alliance Base there was an Armory Station there. Know it has nothing to do with the assistant, but waiting on Cyrodiil queues can be a nightmare depending on the faction and currently running event.

I agree. It does not harm to be able to use the assistant in the main base areas. However, it may not be easy to code since it would probably require changing coding concerning the main bases.

Mayrael · October 2021

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

ShawnLaRock wrote: »

Remathilis wrote: »

I kinda get if they want to avoid swapping at every mob/boss

So, then - what is their intention with this?

The entire point would be to swap gear between trash & bosses.

Not remotely.

The point, is to be able to switch between builds for different playstyles / areas of the game. Like a PvE build and a PvP build. Or a Raid/Trial build and a solo build.

That's how similar systems are used in other MMOs that added them. Not for tweaking your setup for every boss in a raid.

Oh please tell me how to use it in PvP? When there's a queue of 100 people I have to change the build first and then wait idly because I can't estimate how long it will take to get me into Cyrodiil/IC, it might pull me in while killing time in PvE and I won't have chance to change the build.

And what if I forget to change? Should I leave Cyro, change the build and come back again? Why can't one station be added to change the build in Cyrodiil and IC bases? Since we already have such a feature I would prefer if they took away outfit station and put in place of it.

Elsonso · October 2021

Gylzyn wrote: »

From the new webpage about the Armory:

Note that there are some restrictions as to when and where you can activate Ghrasharog (such as in the middle of a Dungeon or Trial run), so be sure to summon him before you begin your activities.

@ZOS_Kevin Was that intended to say "middle of an Arena" instead of dungeon?

Parasaurolophus · October 2021

I don't understand how it works. This means that when top sets are dropped in only paid dlc dungeons and trials, this is not p2w. When a warden and a necromancer are actually an op for pvp, and a must-have class for high-end pve raids, it's not p2w. But using an armory assistant that MAY improve your score so that you get 10 crystal transmutes and 2 useless gold items, is that p2w? Do a lot of people really play the score?
This decision looks very dubious ... Why is the console community as a whole not worried?

Gracous · October 2021

The whole reason for getting the Armorer would be to have the ability to swap gear in a dungeon/trial/arena. Otherwise its not any different than right now. Plus you won't be able to change the Mundus stone in your build. So changing your build, which may require a different mundus stone, is now pointless as well.
In order to be able to switch builds you have to haul all the gear with you which lowers your carrying capacity. Which means you will be pulling out the merchant more often to sell your stuff. It will be worse for those that don't have ESO+. If you have to have the gear on you then you can switch it out manually which will be faster anyways because you won't have to leave the dungeon to do it.

The Armory Assistant is basically useless and a waste of crowns. The only time you can really use it is in overland content where you don't need it.

xgoku1 · October 2021

Really unfortunate for console players. Their P2W comment was adding insult to injury.

Elsonso · October 2021

Gracous wrote: »

The Armory Assistant is basically useless and a waste of crowns. The only time you can really use it is in overland content where you don't need it.

A agree, but maybe not for the same reasons. ZOS should have just left the NPC out of the mix. It adds ambiguity and will never be as functional as people want.

I understand why they don't want to remove existing functionality with addons. I believe Rich referred to it as "a *** move". I don't agree. If it is important enough for the Armorer to be banned from Arenas and Trials, then the addon API should also enforce that. Allowing the addons to do it, but not the armorer, is basically sanctioned cheating and allows for inflated scores with one group, but not the other.

Either everyone can swap gear, and Armorer is usable in Trials and Arenas, or no one can.

redspecter23 · October 2021

I agree with others that are saying that the assistant should just have never been included at all at this point. If the only way to swap was in homes, at least it removes any confusion. If the assistant has so many limitations for "balance" then just don't include it at all. It sounds like it was problematic to their vision right from the start. If they are concerned about monetization, they have that covered with the extra slots, even though I expect 99% of toons will only ever have 2 slots anyway.

HybridFreak · October 2021

I was really looking forward to getting the armorer and being able to swap builds on the fly. But based on this, it's looking like I'll get way better use out of buying a banker or merchant. Seems like the armory assistant is only going to be good for saving a trip to your house. Which definitely seems like a waste of 5k crowns. 😕 I really hope they just miscommunicated.

AcadianPaladin · October 2021

Some clarification is needed for sure since we have both ways in writing. I'm in the 'What's the point if I can't change during a pug group dungeon run based on needs of the pug?' camp.

PeacefulAnarchy · October 2021

Elsonso wrote: »

Gracous wrote: »

Either everyone can swap gear, and Armorer is usable in Trials and Arenas, or no one can.

The issue is that they're ok with gear swapping, but not skill point and stat swapping. I guess coding the assistant to let you swap only some things in trials and arenas led to bugs or seemed too complex and so they decided to just deny it all together.

Everyone can swap gear right now without addons, it just takes a few more seconds to go into inventory and click it.

Elsonso · October 2021

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Either everyone can swap gear, and Armorer is usable in Trials and Arenas, or no one can.

The issue is that they're ok with gear swapping, but not skill point and stat swapping. I guess coding the assistant to let you swap only some things in trials and arenas led to bugs or seemed too complex and so they decided to just deny it all together.

Everyone can swap gear right now without addons, it just takes a few more seconds to go into inventory and click it.

People running addons take the responsibility of getting it right when they use the addon. Armory needs to be mindless and work the same everywhere or people will end up with broken characters, and that is on ZOS, not some addon author.

jaws343 · October 2021

Mayrael wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

ShawnLaRock wrote: »

Remathilis wrote: »

I kinda get if they want to avoid swapping at every mob/boss

So, then - what is their intention with this?

The entire point would be to swap gear between trash & bosses.

Not remotely.

The point, is to be able to switch between builds for different playstyles / areas of the game. Like a PvE build and a PvP build. Or a Raid/Trial build and a solo build.

That's how similar systems are used in other MMOs that added them. Not for tweaking your setup for every boss in a raid.

Oh please tell me how to use it in PvP? When there's a queue of 100 people I have to change the build first and then wait idly because I can't estimate how long it will take to get me into Cyrodiil/IC, it might pull me in while killing time in PvE and I won't have chance to change the build.

And what if I forget to change? Should I leave Cyro, change the build and come back again? Why can't one station be added to change the build in Cyrodiil and IC bases? Since we already have such a feature I would prefer if they took away outfit station and put in place of it.

I actually I agree that a station should be added to the alliance bases. I also think the assistant should be summonable in the starting area of a BG before the match starts, but not after the match starts.

But if they don't do that, I plan on wearing my PVE gear until the queue pops, and then pulling out the armorer assistant prior to accepting the queue and swapping gear. Then accept and port in.

DarcyMardin · October 2021

Wait, you can’t use it in dungeons? Gee, I guess they don’t want anything to slow down the speed runners.

Tigertron · October 2021

I went into PTS and unless something is planned to change between now and launch it still works in both vet and normal dungeons everywhere I tried it.

I was solo and I know you can not get the no death achievement solo. But the armory works all the way to sitting in front of the first boss for me on vet.

Anything where a timer starts it does not work. Vet arenas and trials it does not work once the timer starts. ie right after you open the first door. Normal trial it works everywhere I can get solo.

So I think its a typo.

jaws343 · October 2021

Tigertron wrote: »

I went into PTS and unless something is planned to change between now and launch it still works in both vet and normal dungeons everywhere I tried it.

I was solo and I know you can not get the no death achievement solo. But the armory works all the way to sitting in front of the first boss for me on vet.

Anything where a timer starts it does not work. Vet arenas and trials it does not work once the timer starts. ie right after you open the first door. Normal trial it works everywhere I can get solo.

So I think its a typo.

You absolutely can get no death achievement solo. Had to do that on a few dungeons.

But yeah, I think it is only tied to leaderboard instances where it won't work. Anything where you are competing for a score against other people.

Tigertron · October 2021

jaws343 wrote: »

Tigertron wrote: »

I went into PTS and unless something is planned to change between now and launch it still works in both vet and normal dungeons everywhere I tried it.

I was solo and I know you can not get the no death achievement solo. But the armory works all the way to sitting in front of the first boss for me on vet.

Anything where a timer starts it does not work. Vet arenas and trials it does not work once the timer starts. ie right after you open the first door. Normal trial it works everywhere I can get solo.

So I think its a typo.

You absolutely can get no death achievement solo. Had to do that on a few dungeons.

But yeah, I think it is only tied to leaderboard instances where it won't work. Anything where you are competing for a score against other people.

I did CoA1 many times and never got the no death achievement. Maybe because I skipped the flame actronoch mini boss? Never really looked at the other ones I did. So probably wrong about that.

Armory works though.

jaws343 · October 2021

Tigertron wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Tigertron wrote: »

I went into PTS and unless something is planned to change between now and launch it still works in both vet and normal dungeons everywhere I tried it.

I was solo and I know you can not get the no death achievement solo. But the armory works all the way to sitting in front of the first boss for me on vet.

Anything where a timer starts it does not work. Vet arenas and trials it does not work once the timer starts. ie right after you open the first door. Normal trial it works everywhere I can get solo.

So I think its a typo.

You absolutely can get no death achievement solo. Had to do that on a few dungeons.

But yeah, I think it is only tied to leaderboard instances where it won't work. Anything where you are competing for a score against other people.

I did CoA1 many times and never got the no death achievement. Maybe because I skipped the flame actronoch mini boss? Never really looked at the other ones I did. So probably wrong about that.

Armory works though.

Yeah, that may be why. You have to kill specific bosses to trigger the achievement and I believe that one is one of them. I had to solo the Tempest Island no death due to people always dying on the final fight.

wishlist14 · October 2021

Why are these crucial points not discussed earlier by players from pts so devs can consider changing it according to player feedback?

jaws343 · October 2021

wishlist14 wrote: »

Why are these crucial points not discussed earlier by players from pts so devs can consider changing it according to player feedback?

They were discussed vigorously the moment the system constraints were announced.

I think that people need to understand that feedback isn't always implemented. Especially if the feedback runs counter to the intended usage of the system. In this case, the feedback was that the system was too restrictive. Zos disagrees and are moving forward as is. That doesn't mean the feedback wasn't heard, or that it was ignored. It just means that they don't agree with us.

And I actually think that it should not be available during a scored run of a trial/arena. Only in the prep area or during a normal run. But I also think it should be made available in the alliance base areas of Cyrodil, because not being able to use the system when you swap from PVE to PVP is literally missing the point of the system that is being implemented.

Elsonso · October 2021

wishlist14 wrote: »

Why are these crucial points not discussed earlier by players from pts so devs can consider changing it according to player feedback?

This is a case where the big issues are already decided, i think.

Jeremy · October 2021

rageofodin wrote: »

I understand why the assistant should not be available for timed trials, but dungeons?

My motivation to purchase the assistant is null and void

My primary motivation for purchasing was for PUG dungeon runs, to adapt to the team I am grouped with

I really feel the devs should rethink the Dungeon restriction, I cant be the only one that looked forward to this option

It would be convenient, for sure. Especially if you get grouped with a fake tank or healer.

But I can see both sides of the argument, because it would allow characters to build specifically for certain boss encounters, which might cut down on the intended challenge throughout a dungeon. Though I personally would be fine with it.

In any case: this is a very nice feature either way. It's going to be nice to be able to switch my character from PvE to PvP before I enter a battleground with a few clicks of a button instead of lugging PvP gear around with me and trying to frantically equip everything before the match starts. My Nightblade especially is going to like it, because I'll be able to switch back and forth between Shadowy Disguise and Dark Cloak without having to make a trip to the shrine and paying a fee. So I'm looking forward to it.

rageofodin · October 2021

Tigertron wrote: »

I went into PTS and unless something is planned to change between now and launch it still works in both vet and normal dungeons everywhere I tried it.

I was solo and I know you can not get the no death achievement solo. But the armory works all the way to sitting in front of the first boss for me on vet.

Anything where a timer starts it does not work. Vet arenas and trials it does not work once the timer starts. ie right after you open the first door. Normal trial it works everywhere I can get solo.

So I think its a typo.

YEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAH BABAY!

THANK YOU for the feedback and effort!! 👍👍

Hotdog_23 · October 2021

Elsonso wrote: »

Gylzyn wrote: »

From the new webpage about the Armory:

Note that there are some restrictions as to when and where you can activate Ghrasharog (such as in the middle of a Dungeon or Trial run), so be sure to summon him before you begin your activities.

@ZOS_Kevin Was that intended to say "middle of an Arena" instead of dungeon?

My biggest complaint with this is either
A. Get into a dungeon and someone runs off ahead and I don't have time to set my build.
B. In either a trial or dungeon and someone leaves, and I can quickly swap my build to help the group, but I am limited to it since the instance has already started.

These are the main reason I wish it was just limited to being out of combat to being able to change items with the armory in a dungeon or trial run and not restricted. The argument that it would be pay to win is really a straw man argument at best considering they keep releasing better and better gear but you either must have ESO+ or buy the new content to get it. Sure, you can use base game sets and still do all the content, but people want the latest and best and they know this which in part drives sales.

My 2 cents. Stay safe and happy hunting

redspecter23 · October 2021

Rich Lambert was asked about this issue regarding the wording in his stream tonight and he stated for clarification that the assistant can't be used in timed arenas and trials. I'm assuming that the behavior we are currently seeing on the pts is what is intended and the person writing the article stating that the assistant can't be used in the middle of dungeons was mistaken.

Elsonso · October 2021

redspecter23 wrote: »

Rich Lambert was asked about this issue regarding the wording in his stream tonight and he stated for clarification that the assistant can't be used in timed arenas and trials. I'm assuming that the behavior we are currently seeing on the pts is what is intended and the person writing the article stating that the assistant can't be used in the middle of dungeons was mistaken.

Sadly, people now have to watch Rich's stream to get up-to-date information about things like this. ZOS needs to hire someone who has the job of providing that information on the forum, rather than having the Creative Director do it on his own time in a personal Twitch stream.

Edit: And... people watch Rich's stream and then bring that information here, to the Official ESO Forums, and post it. If they don't, that information is not available to the people on the forum. That just seems backwards to me, but at least we get the info.

zaria · October 2021

Gylzyn wrote: »

From the new webpage about the Armory:

Note that there are some restrictions as to when and where you can activate Ghrasharog (such as in the middle of a Dungeon or Trial run), so be sure to summon him before you begin your activities.

So if you can't use the assistant in a dungeon - what is the point? Because I can't see why you would want to be changing set up much for overland activity. Well that has saved me a lot of crowns/money.

Armor station sounds useful even on PC if you can use it to swap out CP, morphs, and attributes with an click for free. Letting me have an tank, a dps and a PvP build, yes 3 require buying an extra slot. Swapping this now require remember settings and cost gold.
The assistant sounds pretty useless except that you don't have to port to an station for changing.

redspecter23 · October 2021

Elsonso wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Rich Lambert was asked about this issue regarding the wording in his stream tonight and he stated for clarification that the assistant can't be used in timed arenas and trials. I'm assuming that the behavior we are currently seeing on the pts is what is intended and the person writing the article stating that the assistant can't be used in the middle of dungeons was mistaken.

Sadly, people now have to watch Rich's stream to get up-to-date information about things like this. ZOS needs to hire someone who has the job of providing that information on the forum, rather than having the Creative Director do it on his own time in a personal Twitch stream.

Edit: And... people watch Rich's stream and then bring that information here, to the Official ESO Forums, and post it. If they don't, that information is not available to the people on the forum. That just seems backwards to me, but at least we get the info.

To be fair, Rich didn't say anything that he hasn't said before. His stance hasn't changed. The wording in the recent article was what caught people's attention. Had that been fact checked before going live, we wouldn't have this confusion. It could even be edited right now and the confusion would disappear.