In defense of Elemental Succession....

SaintX · October 2021

I am quite aware that this post will be lost in the pile of other feedbacks, that are, frankly more important, BUT....

(Also, I must note that I have not for a long time used Elemental Succession, and this is not a "you ruined my favorite set post", since I rarely, if ever use it anymore...
far from it.... even though I think has its place and I do like idea behind it)

Changes:

"Elemental Succession: This set now grants its bonuses randomly per element when you deal any source of Flame, Frost, or Shock Damage, rather than firing each bonus independently per element."

This basically kills the set. This isn't the first, nor the last change ES is getting.
(Please, let's not dabble in niche usage

)

It cycled from being OP to being useless to being broken&OP, to meh and finally quite good but far from BIS numerous times depending on the content.

Now it is being relegated to useless category again, with the most half baked explanation ever:

"Developer Comment:
This change was done to ensure its power is not outright better than the flat bonus versions of these sets, such as Silks of the Sun, as well as to significantly reduce the amount of logic checks being done per second on the backend."

Not all sets are created equal, otherwise most of us would still run around in Julianos/Hunding.

One is a overland set bought for peanuts, the other was, is and will remain (even with the drop changes) one of the hardest sets to collect and grind for;
as well as being one of the, if not only reason next to score pushing ,to visit veteran Maelstrom Arena again and introducing new players to core mechanics.

Just to recap... to get Silks of the Sun you need a bit of gold and 15 minutes of time to get a set that has a crit line in it and a bit lower (specific magic element) spell damage
and the other was days, weeks (for most people months and for some years of grinding) to get the specific inferno/ice/lightning staff.

By all means it SHOULD and MUST be better than Silks of the Sun/Netch's Touch etc...
it was a clear upgrade that required enormous time and effort... nullified with a comment:
"Meh it must not be better than a very good potato overland set".

Fix the logic behind the set instead of disrespecting the time and effort players invested in it.
Or give us a crafting set aka Julianos/Hunding 2.0 on par with Siroria/Rele/Bahsei/Kinras since all sets should be equal and not an upgrade.

I am aware that most people and devs don't care... but that was my 2 cents.
Carry on

ankeor · October 2021

I would understand if it was nerfed but this change doesn't make sense at all.

EF321 · October 2021

Is uptime currently 100% even? If it lasts 4 seconds and cooldown is 4 seconds, doesn't it mean there is 1 second downtime, or 20% downtime? Also, does it apply to attack that proc'd it?

luen79rwb17_ESO · October 2021

Totally agree, this change got me quite upset since I really loved using it on my magcros. It wasn't OP or anything like that. Now it's simply useless and a senseless change

kojou · October 2021

I agree with the OP's sentiment. It went from a usable, but not BiS set to decon fodder with this change. The reason it was given the change to have overlapping bonuses in the first place was because no one was using it with the random single bonus when it was first released.

I sincerely doubt the number of people using this set had any impact to performance whatsoever even if the new bonus will now "significantly reduce the amount of logic checks being done per second on the backend" of the server. While it was probably a "low hanging fruit" from a performance perspective removing the set from the game entirely would have the same impact and probably be even easier programmatically since by making this change it is essentially being removed from the game.

If I could have one wish, it would be that the combat team would recognize a different "power budget" for sets depending on where they come from. Where the first 3 bonuses are worth 1 point of power, and the 5 piece bonus starts at 2.3 times that.

For example in PvE:

Crafted Sets could be worth 1 + 1 + 1 + 2.3
Overland Sets could be worth 1 + 1 + 1 + 2.4
Dungeon Sets could be worth 1 + 1 + 1 + 2.5
DLC Dungeon Sets and Arena Sets could be worth 1 + 1 + 1 + 2.6
Trials Sets could be worth 1 + Slayer/Aegis + 1 + 2.5
Perfected Trials Sets could be worth 1 + Slayer/Aegis + 1 + 3.6

...or something along that line. The idea being that the harder a set is to obtain the more relative power it allows, and thus Elemental Succession should be a bit more powerful than Silks of the Sun as implied by how much more time must be invested to obtain it.

Fennwitty · October 2021

If they boost those single-type damage boosting sets (maybe not War Maiden, as it's in a decent place IMO) then this change wouldn't be necessary

I don't know anyone who runs Netch's Touch, Silks of the Sun outside of new players and experimental theorycrafters.

katorga · October 2021

"Developer Comment:
...as well as to significantly reduce the amount of logic checks being done per second on the backend."

It must do an immense amount of logic checks if the 5-6 people using this were impacting the backend.

Meanwhile, Succession gets ruined, while Diamond's Victory procs both range and melee bonuses off of blastbones, and Dagons Dominion will offer permanent 492 spell damage next patch for aoe, which is just about every necro skill.

Tivnael · October 2021

Agree ....
There must be said that ysgramor, silks of the sun and netchs touch anyway are some of the weakest sets, they should rather get the 600 SD like spider cultist etc.
Then Ele Succession would be fine with giving around 500 SD

katorga · October 2021

Tivnael wrote: »

Agree ....
There must be said that ysgramor, silks of the sun and netchs touch anyway are some of the weakest sets, they should rather get the 600 SD like spider cultist etc.
Then Ele Succession would be fine with giving around 500 SD

All of the sets that impacted light attacks were kept at 400 - fire, lighting, frost and physical.

The set from Alikr and Blessed Crucible are 600 2H or DW, but only abilities (at least thats what it says in tooltip).

Stx · October 2021

Sword singer and sword dancer do buff light attacks I'm almost positive, but it has been over a year since I used those sets so someone can correct me if they know for sure.

All I have to say on elemental succession is... was the set being widely used? No? Then why the hell are you nerfing it?

How about you buff ysgramors, sun, and notch? Because I'm 99% sure those sets are never being used for anything.

ESO_Nightingale · October 2021

Stx wrote: »

Sword singer and sword dancer do buff light attacks I'm almost positive, but it has been over a year since I used those sets so someone can correct me if they know for sure.

All I have to say on elemental succession is... was the set being widely used? No? Then why the hell are you nerfing it?

How about you buff ysgramors, sun, and notch? Because I'm 99% sure those sets are never being used for anything.

Even 600 spell dmg to frost dmg abilities won't really save ysgram. It has barely any skills to go with it.

SaintX · October 2021

Tivnael wrote: »

Agree ....
There must be said that ysgramor, silks of the sun and netchs touch anyway are some of the weakest sets, they should rather get the 600 SD like spider cultist etc.
Then Ele Succession would be fine with giving around 500 SD

That would be fine, with one exception....most people are not aware that getting
specific ES Inferno/Lightning/Ice (same goes for Winterborn Ice/Lightning Staff)
is the WORST grind in the game by far...
drop rate was, as far as I can remember, the most hideous one out there, at around 0.69% per vMA run.

And please, correct me if I am wrong... (not sure if it is 50/50 for jewelry & weapons on the last boss...
either way it is under 1% or 2% percent in that case).

Yes, I am aware that you can grind it in normal, but when you are at that particular stage in your game life,
those 5 to 10 minutes difference per run, do not account for much.

Even after the loot drop changes it will remain (even though it will be now a laughable matter compared to how things were during previous X years) a hardest grind in the game.

Please, do not get me wrong, it does appear I am piling on about the set that is outclassed by many others at this point,
but I just feel that it is a bit of slap in the face considering the effort and time that people invested in it.

It is much easier and faster to get Perfected trial gear than it is to get Elemental Succession/Winterborn...
and now it is, sadly, a junk set again.

universal_wrath · October 2021

This goes in any game out there , the harderer the content, the better the reward. Except for eso, the easier ther content, the better the reward. Looking at how easy it is to get things like vicous death, perfected false god, medusa, mother sorrow, brairheart, and priah...etc. this thing is happening in both PvE and PvP which makes you wander a bit, is it worth it to do content like maelstrom, vMOL, and vAS for loot instead of just running scores? I understand people still you sets from these activites but I also know they only do it on normal and almost never bother doing the vet because it is useless to them. I for one, Only did vMOL to get the skin and had all my vMOL sets on normal, never did vMOL again after getting the skin. I also stopped doing vet maelstrom because perfected weapon bonuses are joke(only good on front bar) and I got all my weapons from normal, though I might go back and do vet just to complete the rest of weapons as it is going to be 100% easier.

Harder content showed be apprecaited instead of neglected like what is zos doing right now.

Fyi, for those don't know, the PTS versi9n of elemental successi9n is actually the original version when it was first enterduced in 2016 with orsinium expansion, lol. Much wow, much creativity.

Syrpynt · October 2021

If it is like Daedric Trickery and it is on rotation, then the only way to make it as strong as it was before this new/old update--is to make it like 1200 bonus SD to the element randomly selected. Why? Because:

• Sorc running Frost staff and Flame staff and 3 skills in each element, their power is 480 bonus to all 3 elements/attack abilities, averaging 480 overall attack spell damage bonus.
• Warden running Flame and Shock staves, similar ability setup is the same. 480 bonus SD to attack abilities (only attack abilities!!)
• Same for DK running frost and shock staves...
The math comes out to
(480+480+480) / 3 = 480 SD average bonus for attack abilities

Now with it on random for 4 seconds, same abilities slotted on those various classes:

bonus + no bonus + no bonus / 3 elements =
(1,440+0+0) / 3 elements = 480 SD averaged over 4 second intervals (12 seconds total cycle).

Last thing to note:
That's if it is on perfect rotation too!! Is it Truly RNG? Like, you can hit frost bonus 2 times in a row and then not hit frost bonus 5 times in a row? Because if so, that is pretty horrid for a remake, even with a 1,440 elemental spell damge bonus!

Either way. The changes they keep making, ruin builds and makes me give up. I spent SOOOOO much time farming some of these set pieces, prior to transmute crystal bonuses to get BiS trait pieces, and now the set is useless. I don't want to even farm anything in the game anymore, it's just going to be useless to use to farm for other content later on--so what's the point?

Eliahnus · October 2021

Syrpynt wrote: »

Either way. The changes they keep making, ruin builds and makes me give up. I spent SOOOOO much time farming some of these set pieces, prior to transmute crystal bonuses to get BiS trait pieces, and now the set is useless. I don't want to even farm anything in the game anymore, it's just going to be useless to use to farm for other content later on--so what's the point?

My thoughts exactly.
I farmed Elemental Succession, transmuted/reconstructed the set to get it with the traits I wanted, and improved it to golden. Only ... to have to throw it away because it will become totally useless.

EF321 · October 2021

Eliahnus wrote: »

Syrpynt wrote: »

Either way. The changes they keep making, ruin builds and makes me give up. I spent SOOOOO much time farming some of these set pieces, prior to transmute crystal bonuses to get BiS trait pieces, and now the set is useless. I don't want to even farm anything in the game anymore, it's just going to be useless to use to farm for other content later on--so what's the point?

My thoughts exactly.
I farmed Elemental Succession, transmuted/reconstructed the set to get it with the traits I wanted, and improved it to golden. Only ... to have to throw it away because it will become totally useless.

Yea zos completely changed many sets lately... even proc conditions sometimes for some sets, so same sets won't even fit original build I had.

Bl4ckR3alm93 · October 2021

katorga wrote: »

"Developer Comment:
...as well as to significantly reduce the amount of logic checks being done per second on the backend."

It must do an immense amount of logic checks if the 5-6 people using this were impacting the backend.

Meanwhile, Succession gets ruined, while Diamond's Victory procs both range and melee bonuses off of blastbones, and Dagons Dominion will offer permanent 492 spell damage next patch for aoe, which is just about every necro skill.

Actually Diamonds Victory got nerfed again and wont proc off of those skills anymore. People are already raging about how useless it is now on PTS lol. I still do agree that Elemental Succession shouldn't have received a nerf lol. In fact, sets like Diamonds Victory and even burning spellweave is still going to outperform since it gives a straight buff to anything with Mag while ES only gives that to the specific element. I rarely heard people using this set honestly especially now that everything is hybridized. Unnecessary nerf indeed and this is coming from someone that already looked at the set as being mediocre

ESO_Nightingale · October 2021

Bl4ckR3alm93 wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

"Developer Comment:
...as well as to significantly reduce the amount of logic checks being done per second on the backend."

It must do an immense amount of logic checks if the 5-6 people using this were impacting the backend.

Meanwhile, Succession gets ruined, while Diamond's Victory procs both range and melee bonuses off of blastbones, and Dagons Dominion will offer permanent 492 spell damage next patch for aoe, which is just about every necro skill.

Actually Diamonds Victory got nerfed again and wont proc off of those skills anymore. People are already raging about how useless it is now on PTS lol. I still do agree that Elemental Succession shouldn't have received a nerf lol. In fact, sets like Diamonds Victory and even burning spellweave is still going to outperform since it gives a straight buff to anything with Mag while ES only gives that to the specific element. I rarely heard people using this set honestly especially now that everything is hybridized. Unnecessary nerf indeed and this is coming from someone that already looked at the set as being mediocre

And they want us to use ysgram with 3 viable frost damage skills IF YOU COUNT UNSTABLE WALL OF FROST XD

Tivnael · October 2021

Yeah still waiting for Frozen fissure

ESO_Nightingale · October 2021

Tivnael wrote: »

Yeah still waiting for Frozen fissure

would love to have a reason to use fissure again. frost shalks would definitely make it take a step in the right direction. but a new smaller effect to help boost it's damage wouldn't be unreasonable either. something to help it stand out as a morph compared to sub assault. breach doesn't really do that.