ESO+ sub and Free trial issue

hafgood · October 2021

Lysette wrote: »

Crates cost them nothing at all, free eso+ costs them nothing as well - it can just gain them something, new subscriptions. With crates it is simple to understand - people who like them, will still buy them, and people like me, who are disgusted by gambling crates won't - nothing will change, in this case - these crates cost them nothing at all therefore.

Free ESO+ costs them nothing.

Basic economics tells us thats not true. If you pay for 11 months and get one month free either ZOS only have income for 11 months of the year and nothing for the 12th, in other words they have lost 1/12th of their income.

Or they up the costs of the subscription so that you pay the same as you would for 12 months but you pay over 11 and get the feel good factor of having a free month.

So either they lose a 1/12th of their income or the cost of the subscription goes up so that they get their 12 months income from the 11 months. And I can tell you now they are not going to give up 1/12th of their income....

SeaGtGruff · October 2021

Lysette wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

hafgood wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I have not missed out on anything, I benefitted from it - but that doesn't mean, I would be fine with it, because it leaves this bitter feeling that ZOS could just again not be completely generous with such an offer - and left those, who pay for their show out of it - not giving them anything as well - like a few free crates or so. Anything saying "we appreciate you subscribing".

So the crowns you get, and the statues you get and the discounts you get are not Zos saying we appreciate you subscribing? Because you get none of those on the free trial....

Not only that, but the free trial doesn't include doubled bank account space and doubled housing furnishings space, does it? (I'm asking, not saying.)

it includes it - my bank shows 480 spaces now - was 240 unsubbed.

the real benefit of it was the transfer of crafting stuff into the bag again - that freed about 1300 slots on my 16 characters, which was occupied by crafting materials This is as well why I think that ESO+ is well worth it, if one plays more often than just a few hours per month.

Okay, thanks for clarifying that. But the additional space gets "locked" as soon as the free trial ends-- just as when a paid subscription ends-- so you'll only be able to add to existing stacks and won't be able to add new items until after you've taken enough stuff out of the bank to drop you back down below the normal maximum, so the temporary increase in bank space is sort of like a "gotcha" in that it gets you used to having more space, but once the extra space is locked it's inconvenient to manage things back down to "normal," thereby strongly encouraging you to subscribe.

Lysette · October 2021

hafgood wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Crates cost them nothing at all, free eso+ costs them nothing as well - it can just gain them something, new subscriptions. With crates it is simple to understand - people who like them, will still buy them, and people like me, who are disgusted by gambling crates won't - nothing will change, in this case - these crates cost them nothing at all therefore.

Free ESO+ costs them nothing.

Basic economics tells us thats not true. If you pay for 11 months and get one month free either ZOS only have income for 11 months of the year and nothing for the 12th, in other words they have lost 1/12th of their income.

Or they up the costs of the subscription so that you pay the same as you would for 12 months but you pay over 11 and get the feel good factor of having a free month.

So either they lose a 1/12th of their income or the cost of the subscription goes up so that they get their 12 months income from the 11 months. And I can tell you now they are not going to give up 1/12th of their income....

no, if one is permanently subscribed, it doesn't make a difference - you get extra time at the end - when you will most likely stop playing, but while you are subbed, nothing is changing at all - for these subscribers it is not a benefit in regards to ESO+, but just a change in the goodwill towards the company - instead to leave this sour feeling, to be left out of any benefit - especially when you are permanently paying for the service.

for the others it is a benefit -but not a loss for ZOS, because these people wouldn't have bought ESO+ anyway - so this cannot be counted as a loss, it is a gain they wouldn't have achieved either way.

Sheezabeast · October 2021

What if laws regarding loot crates and gambling practices are what made ZOS unable to give them out?

hafgood · October 2021

Lysette wrote: »

no, if one is permanently subscribed, it doesn't make a difference - you get extra time at the end - when you will most likely stop playing, but while you are subbed, nothing is changing at all - for these subscribers it is not a benefit in regards to ESO+, but just a change in the goodwill towards the company - instead to leave this sour feeling, to be left out of any benefit - especially when you are permanently paying for the service.

for the others it is a benefit -but not a loss for ZOS, because these people wouldn't have bought ESO+ anyway - so this cannot be counted as a loss, it is a gain they wouldn't have achieved either way.

Except that's not how it works, the "free" period would be added to the current subscription and that would push the renewal date back, so those who are permanently subscribed would benefit and ZOS would lose the income. So it does come with a cost attached no matter how you try to sell it.

Anyway this has wasted enough of my time I'm off to do something useful.

Lysette · October 2021

Sheezabeast wrote: »

What if laws regarding loot crates and gambling practices are what made ZOS unable to give them out?

if it would be considered to be gambling it would be illegal - the problem is, that it isn't considered that - well, some countries see it as such, but they lack the laws yet to go against virtual gambling, where the payout is not actual money. A crate is just a token with will give you a random selection of virtual items - there is no real money to gain from it, even it costs indirectly real money. In an MMO like second life, where people can actually change virtual currency back to US dollars it is different. They had to change any gambling from purely chance based mechanics to something what requires some "talent" from the player.

shadyjane62 · October 2021

Will look forward to free weeks and free trials as I will NEVER sub this game again.

Lysette · October 2021

hafgood wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

no, if one is permanently subscribed, it doesn't make a difference - you get extra time at the end - when you will most likely stop playing, but while you are subbed, nothing is changing at all - for these subscribers it is not a benefit in regards to ESO+, but just a change in the goodwill towards the company - instead to leave this sour feeling, to be left out of any benefit - especially when you are permanently paying for the service.

for the others it is a benefit -but not a loss for ZOS, because these people wouldn't have bought ESO+ anyway - so this cannot be counted as a loss, it is a gain they wouldn't have achieved either way.

Except that's not how it works, the "free" period would be added to the current subscription and that would push the renewal date back, so those who are permanently subscribed would benefit and ZOS would lose the income. So it does come with a cost attached no matter how you try to sell it.

Anyway this has wasted enough of my time I'm off to do something useful.

well, I am using a non-reoccurring payment method - and whenever I buy eso+, to get some crowns, it is added to the amount I have already. So for as long as I stay subscribed, nothing is changing - just the number of days left on my account. But I will most likely need more crowns before the time is up, and this way the time left gets longer and longer - lol.

It was most of the time like this - I buy a game on steam with prepaid methods - some money is left over from it - and I drop part of it on the ESO account - just to not let it go to waste - I tend to forget about those remaining sums and after a while these companies charge you a fee every month, which will just use up those left overs - so I rather drop them on the eso account or some other account with subscription.

oddbasket · October 2021

Vindold wrote: »

I've explained what we are missing, you just didn't read.
You, as well as others who disagree, look at this situation from perspective of ppl who can afford ESO+ each month.
I'm talking mostly for ppl who can't afford Subing each month, and we value not Crowns, not free statuets which we don't need, nor petty discounts which you will not really benefit from if you don't buy most discounted stuff + obviously ppl who can't afford Sub\month don't buy much, discounts mostly pointless, but what we value is each day we paid for, limited time which gives us access to DLCs\Housing\Outfit Dyeing\Craftbag\Bank space.

The only thing of value is Crowns, but personaly I don't value them so much, I can farm for crowns, what I can't farm for is time to access DLCs\Housing\Outfit Dyeing\Craftbag\Bank space

Also you're mentioning all of this 'free' stuff like crowns, statuets, discounts over and over...you're paying for all of this stuff, it's all calculated, it's not really free, it's not really gratitude it's a small candy which helps them sell Sub.

So what exactly are you missing? You still have your ESO+ subscription that you paid for while the non-subscribers have their free week. You're just sore you paid for a month of ESO+ at exactly the month with a free trial. What you're actually missing is a missed opportunity of getting a free week if YOU hadn't subscribed this month, and you're blaming a third party for it. That is the difference.

I remember when ESO+ had 1500 crowns, no exclusive deals and no statues (we even had a painting!). ZOS decided to value add to the subscription and let's not forget the subscription grows to include new dungeon and zone dlcs as they releases. By using the argument that everything in the the subscription is being paid for to cancel out any generosity, player appreciation or value add on the part of ZOS, I wonder why ZOS would want to add further value for us when we're like this. And everything in the subscription has a value add despite being subjectively weighted differently by each of us to be valuable or meaningless.

It's a catch 22, because anything they add on top of ESO+ falls into your argument that it's your paid entitlement when the next demand for more value comes about. The free trial just happens to be the excuse to bring this topic up this time round.

ZOS's hands are tied with that argument, they can't have a free ESO+ trial, they can't give away a DLC. They better not give out one of those ESO+ statues as a daily login reward, or I'm going to ask for more free stuff because I've just lost all value in my subscription because I only care about the free statues! (Hope you see how little sense that makes?)

Lysette · October 2021

oddbasket wrote: »

Vindold wrote: »

I've explained what we are missing, you just didn't read.
You, as well as others who disagree, look at this situation from perspective of ppl who can afford ESO+ each month.
I'm talking mostly for ppl who can't afford Subing each month, and we value not Crowns, not free statuets which we don't need, nor petty discounts which you will not really benefit from if you don't buy most discounted stuff + obviously ppl who can't afford Sub\month don't buy much, discounts mostly pointless, but what we value is each day we paid for, limited time which gives us access to DLCs\Housing\Outfit Dyeing\Craftbag\Bank space.

The only thing of value is Crowns, but personaly I don't value them so much, I can farm for crowns, what I can't farm for is time to access DLCs\Housing\Outfit Dyeing\Craftbag\Bank space

Also you're mentioning all of this 'free' stuff like crowns, statuets, discounts over and over...you're paying for all of this stuff, it's all calculated, it's not really free, it's not really gratitude it's a small candy which helps them sell Sub.

So what exactly are you missing? You still have your ESO+ subscription that you paid for while the non-subscribers have their free week. You're just sore you paid for a month of ESO+ at exactly the month with a free trial. What you're actually missing is a missed opportunity of getting a free week if YOU hadn't subscribed this month, and you're blaming a third party for it. That is the difference.

I remember when ESO+ had 1500 crowns, no exclusive deals and no statues (we even had a painting!). ZOS decided to value add to the subscription and let's not forget the subscription grows to include new dungeon and zone dlcs as they releases. By using the argument that everything in the the subscription is being paid for to cancel out any generosity, player appreciation or value add on the part of ZOS, I wonder why ZOS would want to add further value for us when we're like this. And everything in the subscription has a value add despite being subjectively weighted differently by each of us to be valuable or meaningless.

It's a catch 22, because anything they add on top of ESO+ falls into your argument that it's your paid entitlement when the next demand for more value comes about. The free trial just happens to be the excuse to bring this topic up this time round.

ZOS's hands are tied with that argument, they can't have a free ESO+ trial, they can't give away a DLC. They better not give out one of those ESO+ statues as a daily login reward, or I'm going to ask for more free stuff because I've just lost all value in my subscription because I only care about the free statues! (Hope you see how little sense that makes?)

well with this, let's not forget that they as well didn't stick to their promise that with subscription every DLC will be free for subscribers - it is still somewhat valid, but with a delay - when they came to the idea to rename DLCs to Chapters - so they actually removed something from the subscription product, not just added to it - and still not all of the Chapter content will be free DLC content later - so they someone kept their promise and somewhat they didn't as well.

the subscription service didn't sell well until they came up with the crafting bag - but the bag alone is no argument for those not needing that much space for crafting material, so the other benefits were added to make it a worthwhile product.

wolfie1.0. · October 2021

Vindold wrote: »

wtlonewolf20 wrote: »

I am subbed on multiple accounts, and honestly? no they shouldn't and wont do this.
Here is my reasoning,
ZOS has been offering free ESO+ trials for years now, and these come out once a quarter usually, but are also not guaranteed. When you sub, regardless of the time frame, you are waiving any benefits to anything that ZOS may offer free in the future, in exchange for benefits now or over a longer period.

you still recieved the crowns included in Plus that free trial users dont get access to, these are provided at very close to sale conversion rates. this alone should offset any "lost" time

ESO + trials are designed to entice players to subscribe to ESO+

Plus free trials are a benefit to the community as a whole, and is not a purchase gated item. if you own any version of ESO you can benefit from it, with the exception of those that pay for it.

having ESO Plus allows you the option to access the benefits until a specified renewal date. Access to the game during that time is NOT guaranteed by ZOS. They will maintain the servers as best they can, but if servers go down, or if you violate the TOS they are not obligated to compensate you for lost playtime.

Most of ppl here who speaks against +7 days to sub time are ppl who can afford to pay for ESO+ each month and looks like you guys are not thinking about other ppl who can't afford it, who counts each day of their sub and to defend your point of view you keep grasping for such obvious things like 'Crowns', Discounts...personaly, I benefited from discounts just once, and don't really care about crowns I saved, it's almost nothing, and to really benefit from such discounts you should always buy and buy some discounted stuff with crowns..yes, we also get free tiny statuets...tbh I don't care about them, as well, as majority of players, well, as far as I know.
Sure, extra Crowns are a good bonus,I appreciate it, but it is a bonus, it's not the reason why I'm paying for sub, not to mention, that I can even farm gold to buy some crowns, so yeah, I don't value them so much, what I value is limited access to DLCs\Craftbag\Costume Dyeing\Housing which you can't get for crowns, so I'm paying for a time and time is money, you paid 30 Septims for each day of your Sub and now, without any profit, without any signs of gratitude you got -210 Septims you paid for 7 days, but yeah...you got some discounts which most ppl will not really benefit from, free tiny statuete which you can..well, lol...and lastly crowns which can't extend your access to DLCs\Craftbag\Costume Dyeing\Housing.

As I already noted before, I like how BDO managed it. They simply gives you free 7 days of sub which you can activate any time you want and this 7days will add to your existing Sub time, this is done just right and clean, everyone happy.

I understand where your coming from but it's well documented that ZOS does these on a regular basis to the point that it is effectively 3 to 4 times a year. They don't adhere to a strict schedule but it's there.

As indicated in point #3 I made these trials are meant to get new subscribers or former ones to return. not to benefit existing ones.

Also as I indicated these trials enable people that can't afford to sub to access content and sub features that they normally wouldn't have access to. Thus it's better for the community.

Zos is under no obligation to extend your sub for the free trial. Just as there is no obligation to offer it. It's the risk you take when you buy a sub. You could renew your sub today for 30 days and tomorrow ZOS'S servers could go down for a week and they would be under no obligation to compensate you for it. If they did, then that's awesome they got some good will. But there's a difference between obligations and best practices, and sometimes companies do what gets them more revenue vs more good will.

oddbasket · October 2021

Lysette wrote: »

well with this, let's not forget that they as well didn't stick to their promise that with subscription every DLC will be free for subscribers - it is still somewhat valid, but with a delay - when they came to the idea to rename DLCs to Chapters - so they actually removed something from the subscription product, not just added to it - and still not all of the Chapter content will be free DLC content later - so they someone kept their promise and somewhat they didn't as well.

the subscription service didn't sell well until they came up with the crafting bag - but the bag alone is no argument for those not needing that much space for crafting material, so the other benefits were added to make it a worthwhile product.

Is it? A product worth your money? Since you say you're picking up a subscription again, the scales must have been balance at the point of that decision, no?

What If I told you someone just gifted me a 3 months subscription so I'm getting 3 months free ESO+? How's does that make you feel about the value of your subscription now?

wolfie1.0. · October 2021

Youyouz06 wrote: »

Vindold wrote: »

wtlonewolf20 wrote: »

I am subbed on multiple accounts, and honestly? no they shouldn't and wont do this.
Here is my reasoning,
ZOS has been offering free ESO+ trials for years now, and these come out once a quarter usually, but are also not guaranteed. When you sub, regardless of the time frame, you are waiving any benefits to anything that ZOS may offer free in the future, in exchange for benefits now or over a longer period.

you still recieved the crowns included in Plus that free trial users dont get access to, these are provided at very close to sale conversion rates. this alone should offset any "lost" time

ESO + trials are designed to entice players to subscribe to ESO+

Plus free trials are a benefit to the community as a whole, and is not a purchase gated item. if you own any version of ESO you can benefit from it, with the exception of those that pay for it.

having ESO Plus allows you the option to access the benefits until a specified renewal date. Access to the game during that time is NOT guaranteed by ZOS. They will maintain the servers as best they can, but if servers go down, or if you violate the TOS they are not obligated to compensate you for lost playtime.

Most of ppl here who speaks against +7 days to sub time are ppl who can afford to pay for ESO+ each month and looks like you guys are not thinking about other ppl who can't afford it, who counts each day of their sub and to defend your point of view you keep grasping for such obvious things like 'Crowns', Discounts...personaly, I benefited from discounts just once, and don't really care about crowns I saved, it's almost nothing, and to really benefit from such discounts you should always buy and buy some discounted stuff with crowns..yes, we also get free tiny statuets...tbh I don't care about them, as well, as majority of players, well, as far as I know.
Sure, extra Crowns are a good bonus,I appreciate it, but it is a bonus, it's not the reason why I'm paying for sub, not to mention, that I can even farm gold to buy some crowns, so yeah, I don't value them so much, what I value is limited access to DLCs\Craftbag\Costume Dyeing\Housing which you can't get for crowns, so I'm paying for a time and time is money, you paid 30 Septims for each day of your Sub and now, without any profit, without any signs of gratitude you got -210 Septims you paid for 7 days, but yeah...you got some discounts which most ppl will not really benefit from, free tiny statuete which you can..well, lol...and lastly crowns which can't extend your access to DLCs\Craftbag\Costume Dyeing\Housing.

As I already noted before, I like how BDO managed it. They simply gives you free 7 days of sub which you can activate any time you want and this 7days will add to your existing Sub time, this is done just right and clean, everyone happy.

This does sound more balanced (The addition or bonus sub days to existing pre-purchase).

If you really wanted to get to balanced from the consumer end then subs would count as time played vs calendar days. But that also wouldn't bring in the same levels of revenue so they won't do it.

Vindold · October 2021

oddbasket wrote: »

So what exactly are you missing? You still have your ESO+ subscription that you paid for while the non-subscribers have their free week. You're just sore you paid for a month of ESO+ at exactly the month with a free trial. What you're actually missing is a missed opportunity of getting a free week if YOU hadn't subscribed this month, and you're blaming a third party for it. That is the difference.

Hah, you really imagine me, like my butt is on fire because I've subbed this month?
You do not believe that I just want to bring up such discussion because I saw a flawed system and solution which is implemented in other MMOs?
I'll tell you more, my friend, I've paid this month and only this month, but I knew that they will bring Free Trial this month by analysing previous dates of Free Trials, I just wanted an access to DLCs and didn't want to wait, cause I'm short on time, I can afford sub when I need it, but I don't need it to be up all the time.
I'm not offended, my butt isn't on fire, I'm not here for myself, I've never been a selfish person, I'm here with a proposition
to improve system, make it fair, so everyone could be happy, well, but ZOS will not be happy, they'll lose a bit of money, that's why we will not get what I'm talking about.

oddbasket wrote: »

I remember when ESO+ had 1500 crowns, no exclusive deals and no statues (we even had a painting!). ZOS decided to value add to the subscription and let's not forget the subscription grows to include new dungeon and zone dlcs as they releases. By using the argument that everything in the the subscription is being paid for to cancel out any generosity, player appreciation or value add on the part of ZOS, I wonder why ZOS would want to add further value for us when we're like this. And everything in the subscription has a value add despite being subjectively weighted differently by each of us to be valuable or meaningless.

They were trying to make Sub sells better, that's the main reason they were experimenting, adding some new stuff to Sub, probably not because of generosity, it's a buisness, rough buisness, but you can believe what you want...and the reason we are sort of paying for others 7 days of free trial for non sub ppl shows how ZOS is trying to get as much as they can without crossing the line of greed.
Even BDO manages to give away 7 free sub days, without subscribers paying for others 7 free days, that's is fair, that's generousity and an investment.

oddbasket wrote: »

It's a catch 22, because anything they add on top of ESO+ falls into your argument that it's your paid entitlement when the next demand for more value comes about. The free trial just happens to be the excuse to bring this topic up this time round.

Whaaat?

Catch? Excuse? Srsly? Daaamn, man...I've just wished to give ppl time they've paid for...
You really don't believe that I've brought this discussion because of flawed system and solution I saw, sad, sad indeed.

Hallothiel · October 2021

Vindold wrote: »

hafgood wrote: »

Vindold wrote: »

I've explained what we are missing, you just didn't read.
You, as well as others who disagree, look at this situation from perspective of ppl who can afford ESO+ each month.
I'm talking mostly for ppl who can't afford Subing each month, and we value not Crowns, not free statuets which we don't need, nor petty discounts which you will not really benefit from if you don't buy most discounted stuff + obviously ppl who can't afford Sub\month don't buy much, discounts mostly pointless, but what we value is each day we paid for, limited time which gives us access to

The only thing of value is Crowns, but personaly I don't value them so much, I can farm for crowns, what I can't farm for is time to access DLCs\Housing\Outfit Dyeing\Craftbag\Bank space

Also you're mentioning all of this 'free' stuff like crowns, statuets, discounts over and over...you're paying for all of this stuff, it's all calculated, it's not really free, it's not really gratitude it's a small candy which helps them sell Sub.

With respect, you haven't explained what we are missing because we are not missing anything, you are still getting the service you have paid for.

Look, man decided to Sub for 1 month, can't afford more, he's paying for access to DLCs\Housing\Outfit Dyeing\Craftbag\Bank space because he can't get it otherwise, he value each day he paid for, like 30 Septims for each day, but few hours later Free Trial arrived, 7 days free -> he lost his 210 Septims, flushed down the toilet, all what he paid for is given for free to everyone else, he's not even geting some sort of a thank you, dear customer...btw I'm talking about real person, he posted it here.

That’s just unlucky, but perhaps a decently-worded email to customer support might be a better option than demanding free stuff on the forums?

Hallothiel · October 2021

Blacknight841 wrote: »

There is a difference between allowing one time 30 day free trial per account … and giving a free trial ever quarter for a whole week, every single year. Currently eso+ Are paying for 12 months of subscription, but only getting 11 months of paid subscription plus 1 month free.

What exactly are they selling… a subscription service with perks for dedicated members, or a “hold out until we give another free week” (because we definitely will). I certainly can’t tell anymore.

No, I am getting the continual benefits of 12 months of subbing. I really really do not mind the occasional week long free trial being given to other players. I cannot get my head round the idea that this free trial is somehow ‘disrespectful’ or some other nonsense.

(Why does it edit ‘disrespectful’ but not disrespectful ?)

kargen27 · October 2021

Is ESO+ worth the cost?

For me the answer is yes. That answer doesn't change just because others get it free for one week. And if a free week for others keeps them playing the game longer I see that as good for me anyway.

I imagine holding onto crafting supplies is a major hassle if you don't have the bag. Offering players without ESO+ a bit of a way to deal with that from time to time has got to be good for the game whether it directly benefits me or not.

And it comes right at the end of a double drops event so even better for those that don't usually have access.

Vindold · October 2021

Hallothiel wrote: »

Vindold wrote: »

hafgood wrote: »

Vindold wrote: »

I've explained what we are missing, you just didn't read.
You, as well as others who disagree, look at this situation from perspective of ppl who can afford ESO+ each month.
I'm talking mostly for ppl who can't afford Subing each month, and we value not Crowns, not free statuets which we don't need, nor petty discounts which you will not really benefit from if you don't buy most discounted stuff + obviously ppl who can't afford Sub\month don't buy much, discounts mostly pointless, but what we value is each day we paid for, limited time which gives us access to

The only thing of value is Crowns, but personaly I don't value them so much, I can farm for crowns, what I can't farm for is time to access DLCs\Housing\Outfit Dyeing\Craftbag\Bank space

Also you're mentioning all of this 'free' stuff like crowns, statuets, discounts over and over...you're paying for all of this stuff, it's all calculated, it's not really free, it's not really gratitude it's a small candy which helps them sell Sub.

With respect, you haven't explained what we are missing because we are not missing anything, you are still getting the service you have paid for.

Look, man decided to Sub for 1 month, can't afford more, he's paying for access to DLCs\Housing\Outfit Dyeing\Craftbag\Bank space because he can't get it otherwise, he value each day he paid for, like 30 Septims for each day, but few hours later Free Trial arrived, 7 days free -> he lost his 210 Septims, flushed down the toilet, all what he paid for is given for free to everyone else, he's not even geting some sort of a thank you, dear customer...btw I'm talking about real person, he posted it here.

That’s just unlucky, but perhaps a decently-worded email to customer support might be a better option than demanding free stuff on the forums?

Free stuff? He paid for a main service, for a time everyone gets for free and he was not demanding anything.
This thread isn't about demanding it's about a solution, ppl agree with such solution or they not, that's all.

JKorr · October 2021

oddbasket wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

well with this, let's not forget that they as well didn't stick to their promise that with subscription every DLC will be free for subscribers - it is still somewhat valid, but with a delay - when they came to the idea to rename DLCs to Chapters - so they actually removed something from the subscription product, not just added to it - and still not all of the Chapter content will be free DLC content later - so they someone kept their promise and somewhat they didn't as well.

the subscription service didn't sell well until they came up with the crafting bag - but the bag alone is no argument for those not needing that much space for crafting material, so the other benefits were added to make it a worthwhile product.

Is it? A product worth your money? Since you say you're picking up a subscription again, the scales must have been balance at the point of that decision, no?

What If I told you someone just gifted me a 3 months subscription so I'm getting 3 months free ESO+? How's does that make you feel about the value of your subscription now?

Same as I felt before, actually. *You* may be getting that 3 months as a gift, but it was paid for by someone/magical elf/random family member/friend. Also, since you are getting a "real" as opposed to trial version, you are getting all the benefits. Nice friend/magical elf/random family member you have.

Until there is something ZOS takes away from the service I'm paying for to give non-subbers a free trial, I really have no issues with it. I don't see the point of asking for more stuff just because they are offering a limited "free" version of the service I'm paying for to try to get new customers.

JKorr · October 2021

kargen27 wrote: »

Is ESO+ worth the cost?

For me the answer is yes. That answer doesn't change just because others get it free for one week. And if a free week for others keeps them playing the game longer I see that as good for me anyway.

I imagine holding onto crafting supplies is a major hassle if you don't have the bag. Offering players without ESO+ a bit of a way to deal with that from time to time has got to be good for the game whether it directly benefits me or not.

And it comes right at the end of a double drops event so even better for those that don't usually have access.

It is possible to survive and craft without the crafting bag. Everyone who's been playing since early access when a sub was *required*and we got nothing besides the game know it can be done. It was a right royal pain before they revamped the provisioning craft; all the different levels of ingredients was maddening to keep track of. Mule alts were a thing; visits to the bank to switch inventory items around was a thing. Not allowing alt A to pick up mat B due to space issues was a thing. It is a good idea to show players what the benefits of the crafting bag and extra inventory space are; if they keep playing, even if they don't sub, that still gets players into the game.

Lysette · October 2021

oddbasket wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

well with this, let's not forget that they as well didn't stick to their promise that with subscription every DLC will be free for subscribers - it is still somewhat valid, but with a delay - when they came to the idea to rename DLCs to Chapters - so they actually removed something from the subscription product, not just added to it - and still not all of the Chapter content will be free DLC content later - so they someone kept their promise and somewhat they didn't as well.

the subscription service didn't sell well until they came up with the crafting bag - but the bag alone is no argument for those not needing that much space for crafting material, so the other benefits were added to make it a worthwhile product.

Is it? A product worth your money? Since you say you're picking up a subscription again, the scales must have been balance at the point of that decision, no?

What If I told you someone just gifted me a 3 months subscription so I'm getting 3 months free ESO+? How's does that make you feel about the value of your subscription now?

I have no issue with the product or it's price - I have a problem with ZOS not genuinely being generous - this is what I dislike - that they dare to let subscribers, those who pay for their show, out of the picture and think it is ok to give them nothing extra.

I think you have the wrong idea about what I like with subscription or not - if it would be me, it would be all mandatory subscription, no extra paid DLC or Chapters, everything included with the subscription - like it was originally planned - ZOS just deviated from their original plan.

Lysette · October 2021

And just to the "get new customers" with a free eso+ trial - this is not true, we are all their customers, subscribed or not, because we have bought the game and often as well lots of stuff from the crown store as well - there are no free loaders playing ESO, all are paid for accounts - eventually not paid by the account holder, but still paid for accounts.

kargen27 · October 2021

JKorr wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Is ESO+ worth the cost?

For me the answer is yes. That answer doesn't change just because others get it free for one week. And if a free week for others keeps them playing the game longer I see that as good for me anyway.

I imagine holding onto crafting supplies is a major hassle if you don't have the bag. Offering players without ESO+ a bit of a way to deal with that from time to time has got to be good for the game whether it directly benefits me or not.

And it comes right at the end of a double drops event so even better for those that don't usually have access.

It is possible to survive and craft without the crafting bag. Everyone who's been playing since early access when a sub was *required*and we got nothing besides the game know it can be done. It was a right royal pain before they revamped the provisioning craft; all the different levels of ingredients was maddening to keep track of. Mule alts were a thing; visits to the bank to switch inventory items around was a thing. Not allowing alt A to pick up mat B due to space issues was a thing. It is a good idea to show players what the benefits of the crafting bag and extra inventory space are; if they keep playing, even if they don't sub, that still gets players into the game.

I know it is possible. I've been here since early access. Much more stuff to craft now. Didn't have so much to haul around back then.
My point is giving players access to the crafting bag free twice a year might be enough to keep some of these players from getting completely frustrated and thinking about moving on.

spartaxoxo · October 2021

Gundug wrote: »

I find it amusing how people equate the monthly crowns and the small statues you get for subscribing to Plus as being free. All of those items are paid for by the subscription fee. Just because ZOS portrays the statues as free, that doesn’t mean they are. You won’t get them without paying.

The statues are free. They were created specifically to replace the free crown crates and added after the fact. They also aren't a primary reason to subscribe and can be removed at a moment's notice.

But I guess them being added as a freebie don't count anymore since it's been a while, huh? Anything they give subscribers later as a bonus will automatically added to the things you paid for?

This is what is advertised as purchase.

DLC GAME PACKS

Full access to all DLC game packs1

MORE CRAFTING STORAGE

Unlimited storage for crafting materials2

FREE CROWNS

1650 crowns per month for mounts, pets, & more3

EXTRA BANK SPACE

Double Bank space for your account

MORE GOLD & XP

10% increase to Gold & Experience acquisition1

BONUS TO CRAFTING

10% increase to Crafting Inspiration & Trait Research rates1

MORE FURNITURE SPACE

Double Furnishings & Collectibles space in player housing

COSTUME DYEING

Exclusive ability to dye costumes

TRANSMUTATION CRYSTALS

Double currency cap for Transmutation Crystals

EXCLUSIVE DEALS

Exclusive access to unique Crown Store deals

Any freebies they give to subscribers outside of that is not what is being paid for. By your defintion it is literally impossible to give subscribers anything because any gift given to subscribers first requires you to subscribe, therefore it automatically becomes part of your subscription the second they give it to you despite not being part of your original deal.

That's simply not how that works. This is what you're paying to get, everything else is a bonus.

Subscribers get free statuettes all year, non-subscribers get a few weeks free of the subscription perks a year.

spartaxoxo · October 2021

xgoku1 wrote: »

oddbasket wrote: »

xgoku1 wrote: »

4 free weeks of ESO+ is around 12$ off your yearly sub. I would say its a valid gripe.

I don't see why ZOS can't give some crown items in the 400-500c range for people who are subbed during a free ESO+ week. It'd be a nice gesture

I find it amusing that some are mentioning the trial as an absolute loss ($12) to them. It's not, it is perceiving someone else's gain as their loss. A perceived loss, not an actual loss.

This 1 to 1 gain and loss comparison under the guise of fairness is disturbing. If that is the case, wouldn't it be more fair to suggest for ZOS to tally up the number of players who've activated the free trial, and then reward the exact same number of ESO+ players with a bonus? That is a direct 1 to 1 gain and completely fair, no?

In fairness, the number of ESO+ subscribers rewarded will depend on how successful the free trial was, and that we can't measure since we do not really know the figures. But then how would you decide which ESO+ subscribers receive rewards and who don't such that it would be fair?

ZOS will probably reap the benefits of only a fraction of players on the free trial converting to ESO+, but existing ESO+ subscribers are demanding a payout for every single one of them. That seems fair? That just sounds greedy, calculating and petty.

Because these trials are announced out of the blue, people with running overlapping subs feel short changed.

It's an objective loss if you don't care for the crowns. If you got a 1 month sub from Oct-Nov you paid for 4 weeks when you could've paid for 3. Or if known prior they could start their one month sub on the last week of September.

If you're paying for a yearly subscription, you're paying for 12 months when you could've got by with paying for 11.

So that's 8% less value for what you paid 150$ for.

It is not a loss. You paid for what you wanted and received it. You can't pay for 1 week so there is no opportunity loss either.

spartaxoxo · October 2021

Hallothiel wrote: »

Blacknight841 wrote: »

There is a difference between allowing one time 30 day free trial per account … and giving a free trial ever quarter for a whole week, every single year. Currently eso+ Are paying for 12 months of subscription, but only getting 11 months of paid subscription plus 1 month free.

What exactly are they selling… a subscription service with perks for dedicated members, or a “hold out until we give another free week” (because we definitely will). I certainly can’t tell anymore.

No, I am getting the continual benefits of 12 months of subbing. I really really do not mind the occasional week long free trial being given to other players. I cannot get my head round the idea that this free trial is somehow ‘disrespectful’ or some other nonsense.

(Why does it edit ‘disrespectful’ but not disrespectful ?)

[snip] Of course it would be nice to get something extra, but I am not entitled to something anytime someone else gets something. Nor is it taking something away from me.

"I could have paid for 3 weeks!"

No, you could not have. That's entirely made up to make it seem like rather than something being given to someone else, it was taken from you.

"I could have subbed month to month instead of a year and saved money!"

Also false. 14.99 for 11 months is more expensive than buying it for a year.

[edited for bashing]

oddbasket · October 2021

Lysette wrote: »

I have no issue with the product or it's price - I have a problem with ZOS not genuinely being generous - this is what I dislike - that they dare to let subscribers, those who pay for their show, out of the picture and think it is ok to give them nothing extra.

I think you have the wrong idea about what I like with subscription or not - if it would be me, it would be all mandatory subscription, no extra paid DLC or Chapters, everything included with the subscription - like it was originally planned - ZOS just deviated from their original plan.

What you're describing is a fear of losing out. It's like a salesman offering your neighbour a good deal and you feel you should get it too because you own many of their products. To the salesman, it's not generosity, it's business. The neighbour simply fit a consumer profile.

Despite how you feel should have been the game's direction, we have an ESO to play today and the game is thriving. A compulsory subscription made it a direct competitor against two very popular MMOs at the time. Making ESO more accessible changed this dynamic.

Lysette · October 2021

well, it is pointless to try to further argue - the difference is just too much and it's getting more not less - so let's just agree to disagree - I think about entitlement as a customer in a totally different way than you do and I guess nothing will change your mind and neither mine. So let's just stop here.

oddbasket · October 2021

JKorr wrote: »

Same as I felt before, actually. *You* may be getting that 3 months as a gift, but it was paid for by someone/magical elf/random family member/friend. Also, since you are getting a "real" as opposed to trial version, you are getting all the benefits. Nice friend/magical elf/random family member you have.

Until there is something ZOS takes away from the service I'm paying for to give non-subbers a free trial, I really have no issues with it. I don't see the point of asking for more stuff just because they are offering a limited "free" version of the service I'm paying for to try to get new customers.

Indeed. My reply was to prompt them to see that the actual value of the subscription that they've decided was worth paying for hasn't changed.

spartaxoxo · October 2021

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Eliahnus wrote: »

oddbasket wrote: »

I find it amusing that some are mentioning the trial as an absolute loss ($12) to them. It's not, it is perceiving someone else's gain as their loss. A perceived loss, not an actual loss.

From a mathematical point of view : absolutely speaking it is indeed not a loss, relatively speaking it IS a loss.

That you find it to be amusing, it is because you do not (or better : do not want) to understand.
Paying for what others get for free, can never be justified.

(Edited because of typo.)

So it can never be justified to pay for a car, if people can go on a game show and win the car? It can never be justified to pay for a meal in a restaurant, if somebody can get a free meal there as part of some prize or through a gift certificate that they received? It can never be justified to pay for a movie ticket or Blu-ray disc if people can see the same movie on broadcast TV? It can never be justified to pay for a music album if people can turn on the radio and hear the same songs for free?

Bingo. Don't go buy your friend a birthdat dinner either, because it means you'll have to go to your local grocery store and buy meals for your entire town. Otherwise you are greedy person because they had to walk around this town knowing that Tim got a free meal and they didn't.