There is already a heal absorption set that drops from rewards for the worthy. They need to change that to something like plaguebreak, increasing absorption with number of players in the area

finehair wrote: »

There is already a heal absorption set that drops from rewards for the worthy. They need to change that to something like plaguebreak, increasing absorption with number of players in the area

Yes that's the Soldier of Anguish set. I was thinking of exactly that kind of debuff but one that scales-up based on number of enemies in the area, and even better would be one that follows an enemy similar to the way inevitable detonation follows an enemy.

Andre_Noir wrote: »

The real problem of current system is that EVERYTHING is cleansable. A lot of sets has no use just because you can counter them by a single button on certain classes (and basicly for free on necro) but on other hand there is no any counterplay to healing and buffing except negate (at least somehow).
ZOS should work with defile debuff since it's pure pvp debuff and has now impact to pve. Right now it's cleansable so completely useless (same as meatbags against balls)

Imo anything player can inflict should be cleansable. Anything siege can inflict should not be cleansable.

Andre_Noir wrote: »

The real problem of current system is that EVERYTHING is cleansable. A lot of sets has no use just because you can counter them by a single button on certain classes (and basicly for free on necro) but on other hand there is no any counterplay to healing and buffing except negate (at least somehow).
ZOS should work with defile debuff since it's pure pvp debuff and has now impact to pve. Right now it's cleansable so completely useless (same as meatbags against balls)

I think you nailed it. It's the one thing with no consistent counter other thank 1 sorcerer class ultimate. What might be interesting is if ZOS made only 'damaging effects' cleansable.

They need to revert back old skills. Race against time shouldn’t give snare immunity, elude shouldn’t give snare immunity, and legendary boots shouldn’t give snare immunity.
You can’t pin these groups down because of snare immunity.

The only things that should give snare immunity is removal by cleanse and forward momentum like how it used to be. They only introduced these new skills after mass rooting was an issue — then they added a CD to roots after changing the above. That’s why most 1vX used to use forward momentum over rally.

Race against time is a loaded ability and IMO turned pvp into a game of cat and mouse. Everyone used to play without it and it was fine. Then magden got buffed and everyone started spamming ice snares in bgs and you were rooted all day. People complained, but now that roots are on a CD it should be a matter of skill.

Race against time used to lower to cost of sprint by 50% and give major expedition.

Playnice wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Hmmm... What about a set that works like Plague break where it leaves a harmful effect like Maim to reduce the healing a target gets, but if the harmful effect is purged it'll apply an unpurgable silence to the person and everyone around them in 8-10 meters?

That idea but not based on purge imo. From what I've seen lately, all the prominent ball groups already stopped using purge due to plaguebreak. What if instead of based on enemy purging, it was based on the enemy overhealing. Say any enemy that overheals themselves x number of times within x seconds is silenced for 3 seconds.

That would destroy all Magicka builds permanently, and now that I think of it the purge is a bad idea to. Think it should proc when the target is effected by an ability or set that targets group members. (Alliance war Cleanse, Barrier, War Horn, and sets like Olorime.)

Just change cross healing so you can only have 1 copy of each healing spell active on your at a time (1 green vigor, 1 yellow vigor, 1 radiating regeneration, 1 rapid regen, etc).
Without 30k healing per second from stacking rapid regens and vigors, ball groups wouldn't be immortal.

mocap wrote: »

you can't beat ball groups like Nova or Fist. Period. Negate, Shmegate, Bulshgate... Doesn't matter.
Only another ball + zerg support can do it. Otherwise they just farm you like total noob without any resistance.

[snip]

Doable with 5 people. Negate, cc and enough burst and they go down ez. Doable only on comms tho since it has to be timed perfectly.

[edited to remove quote]

Ballgroups are far from unkillable, just don't expect a few randoms to be able to counter a highly coordinated group with good players.

It's fair to assume and agree that the game is very unbalanced in some points, but regarding ballgroups (some at least - being my perspective PC-EU nCP/CP), the gap comes from coordination, tactics and reaction.

Most good ballgroup players have spent countless hours discussing and testing builds, perfecting roles, tactics and constantly log their performance to improve each and every time they play. It is indeed a lot of time invested in this.

Can you say the same for randoms/casuals? If so, most would stop running into obvious chokepoints/bottlenecks and wiping to coordinated groups in stacks as we continue to see.

If you are looking into a way to counter good groups, maybe start looking into roles, builds, coordination, tactics and having good players in teams with experienced leaders, than asking ESO Devs for sets/skills to counter those groups.

Because in the end, good groups will adapt and some may end up in forums again asking dev team for something else because what you have doesn't work anymore against ballgroups.

gariondavey wrote: »

Just change cross healing so you can only have 1 copy of each healing spell active on your at a time (1 green vigor, 1 yellow vigor, 1 radiating regeneration, 1 rapid regen, etc).
Without 30k healing per second from stacking rapid regens and vigors, ball groups wouldn't be immortal.

This is the best solution.

In my opinion Negate should be changed so that one gets this as few seconds uncleansable debuff when caught in the area. Like an AoE version of the WoW counterspell. Counterspell worked very well in WoW vs. people who spammed heals constantly.

https://eso-sets.com/set/ring-of-the-pale-order

Ring of the Pale Order:
(1 item) Restore 20% of the damage you deal as Health. This value is decreased by 4% per ally you are grouped with. You cannot be healed by anyone but yourself.

The answer on how to balance ball groups lays in this set. It literately scales with the group size, so the the larger the group, the weaker this set gets.

And this is imho the answer. Sets, skills, passives, synergies - all kind of things could be getting a small % reduction in effectives via battle spirit, depending on the group size. So the larger the group - the weaker some thing will be. This could be a small, barely noticeable "nerf" to a small scale groups, but a severe one in case of a ball group.

LarsS wrote: »

Having played ESO since open beta, I have noted a sucessive widening of the gap between new pvp players and hardcore players. This increased gap is due to the introduction of the CP system and the build diversity, especially the proc-sets. I think we have abundant proofs that new proc-sets wont solve this problem.

The problem is not easy to solve, good players or raids should have an advantage, on the other hand if the advantage gets to big, as it has been for a while, its not fun for anyone. People who are new to pvp leave again, when they are consitenty killed by hardcore raids and those raids run into a problem, because most people try to avoid them. So the power gap is at the core of the pvp problem.

I see only one solution and that is to remove proc-sets and CP from pvp and start a new from that base. I know that many experienced players want to be able to use their full power in pvp, so did I until a few months ago. Still ESO pvp have to change direction to stay fun, for both new and hardcore players.

You can already do this in Raven.