Costs magicka to cast..

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7413632/#Comment_7413632

i've been messing around with flamelash a lot and it's really good. one of the things i'm most excited about this update is playing my stamdk

danthemann5 wrote: »

We've made it to week 4 of PTS, so it's pretty safe to say what we have now is what's going live, at least for the most part.

And still there is no stam whip.

I know I've noticed far fewer people online lately, maybe ZOS has noticed it too. I know how much ZOS hates the idea of stam whip; they've done so much over the last few years to avoid giving it to us at all cost. Maybe given the current situation, now would be a good time to listen to players and give us what we want.

Or maybe they're hoping if they ignore us, we'll go away...

Rich Lambert has commented on this during one of his streams, they're currently happy with how it works on PTS so don't expect further changes this cycle.
He did say however that this doesn't mean that further changes aren't possible in the future.

danthemann5 wrote: »

VarisVaris wrote: »

danthemann5 wrote: »

We've made it to week 4 of PTS, so it's pretty safe to say what we have now is what's going live, at least for the most part.

And still there is no stam whip.

I know I've noticed far fewer people online lately, maybe ZOS has noticed it too. I know how much ZOS hates the idea of stam whip; they've done so much over the last few years to avoid giving it to us at all cost. Maybe given the current situation, now would be a good time to listen to players and give us what we want.

Or maybe they're hoping if they ignore us, we'll go away...

Rich Lambert has commented on this during one of his streams, they're currently happy with how it works on PTS so don't expect further changes this cycle.
He did say however that this doesn't mean that further changes aren't possible in the future.

The comments by Rich "You Know You Don't Have to Be Here" Lambert highlight my point. It's great that he's happy with how it works, but that's not what the players want. Given what I'll call the 'current situation' without further elaboration, continuing to ignore player needs, wants, and feedback does not appear to be the wisest strategy.

A case study with many parallels is the story of Research In Motion / Blackberry from the early to mid 2000s. The market was evolving, competitors were appearing, yet the company stubbornly refused to adapt or consider that people might want something other than what the company leadership thought best. They clung to their philosophy while the world moved on around them. How many Blackberry phones do we see anymore?

speak for yourself. I really like the DK change.
I'm super excited about it hitting live and running flamelash on my stamdk.

danthemann5 wrote: »

...Maybe given the current situation, now would be a good time to listen to players and give us what we want.

Or maybe they're hoping if they ignore us, we'll go away...

danthemann5 wrote: »

...It's great that he's happy with how it works, but that's not what the players want. Given what I'll call the 'current situation' without further elaboration, continuing to ignore player needs, wants, and feedback does not appear to be the wisest strategy.

It sure sounds like you're trying to speak for other people as if your opinion is everyones opinion. It's not so black and white and from what I've seen, it's more divided at 50/50 rather than what we saw happen to Poop Fist which is still complete crap. There are many positives to having a magicka cost spammable and I doubt a lot of the people against this design have actually tried it.

Funny enough, despite this being the public test server, not many people actually test things. The true test will be on live when the majority of players get it in their hands and find ways to use it properly. While a stamina cost whip may be simpler and I'm sure would satisify the majority of players that asked for it, like yourself, there are many positives that have yet to be explored and it would be a shame to toss this unique opportunity out the window because of having a rigid point of view about the cost... which it seems is what Rich is Eluding to anyway.

Having a magicka dump for pve is insanely powerful. Look at @Tannus15 sustain/drain. It's close to 1:1 meaning they probably never dropped below 70% of either pool. Sustaining a 6mil dummy is already stupidly hard to do as sustain in actual content is much easier given combat phases, heavy attack openners, additional synergies instead of just 1, and generally shorter fights.

For pvp, you're going to build for mag and stam sustain regardless, more than you do in pve. Stam/Mag/Heroism pots are also very popular for DK's. They have an excellent toolkit to manage both resources simutaniously with most if not all their damage as flame or poison, similarly to how Sorcs run higher mag sustain so they can Dark Deal and Streak more often.

Both morphs don't actually require you to spam the skill at full cost continously anyway, they're both timed for comboes to how DK's are built, you're going to spend time dotting/turtling up for an ultimate, CC into Power Lash (half cost, more damage) or Molten Whip at 3 stacks for a huge burst.

Stx wrote: »

FluffWit wrote: »

Igneous weapons... dragon blood.... the one that gives me crit and puts the flame dealie on my shoulder... I'm fairly confident I can't run all that and use a magic based flammable on my STAM DK.

Other classes I could probably use a mag based spammable on a stam build but DK? Forget about it.

And no, I'm not gonna run max magic or mag regeneration food on my STAM DK. It would be at the cost of max stam and stam regeneration. Then you've got the whole what potions do I run problem

This isn't practical ZOS. How about for once you make magic users use their secondary resource to cast? Or better yet just give us the stam whip we spent years asking for.

I didn't say max magicka food. I said max stamina/magicka recovery blue food. This would 100% solve your problem if you are having issues using this spammable. You wouldn't need the stamina regen from food anymore if you are using a msgicka spammable...

I'm not sure what they're referring to with their example anyway.

For a PVE Stam DK you shouldn't be using Igneous Weapons and Dragon Blood. Igneous is only used by Tanks in niche scenario's to provide DPS with an alternative Potion option like minor heroism pots. Vigor is more than enough for a self heal and costs stamina, an hp % based heal on a Stam DK is like a 7k burst heal if that, Vigor easily has a 20k tooltip over 4s.

For a PVP Stam DK, why would you use Igneous over Molten Armaments, which is based on a heavy attack playstyle which has infinite stamina sustain anyway. With the new charged, combustion and ult spent changes, your magicka sustain is going to multiply. In PVP, you're probably already using stam/mag/heroism pots and/or Haunch/Jewels food, this really shouldn't be a problem. Stam DK's already spend half their skills on magicka anyway, you should have close to equal sustain on both and the DK kit supports this idea.

"Fairly confident" really means they're making a snap decision without thinking about the bigger picture on how they could optimize their build better to use this, while not actually trying out the ability for themselves on the PTS.

FluffWit wrote: »

Igneous weapons... dragon blood.... the one that gives me crit and puts the flame dealie on my shoulder... I'm fairly confident I can't run all that and use a magic based flammable on my STAM DK.

Other classes I could probably use a mag based spammable on a stam build but DK? Forget about it.

And no, I'm not gonna run max magic or mag regeneration food on my STAM DK. It would be at the cost of max stam and stam regeneration. Then you've got the whole what potions do I run problem

This isn't practical ZOS. How about for once you make magic users use their secondary resource to cast? Or better yet just give us the stam whip we spent years asking for.

Always thought Igneous Weapons should stay the way it is as a group buff with high mag cost for what it does. Molten Armaments on the other hand should be a self only buff and cheaper overall cost especially since its secondary benefit is personal only use at 50% buff to heavy attacks. 4320 mag cost is high for stamDK’s to swallow.

Especially since wardens get it free and a free purge to boot. Sorcerer cost is high at 4050, but the healing is way more useful then the 50% heavy attack damage bonus. Nightblade’s get it for 3510 or 2983 stam and AOE damage with either morph of drain. Plus, Sap Essence gets a ready nice heal for the group and Power Extraction gets Minor Cowardice for good measure. Templars and Necromancers yea screw those guys and gals they can’t have Major Brutality and Sorcery in class.

Stay safe and enjoy the journey

No stam morph for whip yet but from every bit of feedback I’ve seen heard and my friends who personally tested whip it definitely is a step in the right direction. There is a lot of utility in it costing magicka to use a spammable and opens up some build options for a dk.

Would I prefer an actual stam cost whip dealing poison damage? 100% but I’ll take what’s being given and roll with it for the time being.