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ZOS - if you won't fix AoE caps, are you going to ban those who exploit stacking/turtling?
ChairGraveyard
✭✭✭✭
AoE Caps Enable Cheating:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=0hyK9tLzG5o
This video shows a group abusing AoE caps (i.e., exploiting) to make their group basically invulnerable to damage.
This is the textbook definition of exploiting game mechanics, and is against the Terms of Service.
So I ask, if AoE caps are staying, will ZOS be policing PvP and banning those that use stacking exploits?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=0hyK9tLzG5oThis video shows a group abusing AoE caps (i.e., exploiting) to make their group basically invulnerable to damage.
This is the textbook definition of exploiting game mechanics, and is against the Terms of Service.
So I ask, if AoE caps are staying, will ZOS be policing PvP and banning those that use stacking exploits?
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Daverios✭✭✭✭A. they are not abusing anything. They are organized and not sticking so close together for aoes explicitly rather heals.
B. Its much easier to abuse infinite targets being hit by aoe.
C. It is more realistic. Do you think an flame thrower hits everyone or just the people in the front.
I support this change as it makes pvp just a lil less zergtastic. Please do not listen to the whiners. Every game does this and for goid reason even if they cannot see it when fully explained.
Edited by Daverios on April 28, 2014 11:49PM3 -
ChairGraveyard✭✭✭✭A) they are not abusing anything. They are organized.
Its much easier to abuse infinite targets being hit by aoe. It is more realistic. Do you think an flame thrower hits everyone or just the people in the front.
I support this change as it makes pvp just a lil less zergtastic. Please do not listen to the whiners.
A) A giant blob is the opposite of organized. Also, abusing game mechanics is exploiting, and against the TOS, regardless of how much you like the exploit yourself.
Let me restate this, since you seem to have not understood it.
Abusing game mechanics (such as making your group invulnerable because of the AoE cap by stacking) IS EXPLOITING AS DEFINED BY THE TERMS OF SERVICE.
Your opinion does not matter. The Terms of Service clearly denote that abusing game mechanics in this fashion is cheating and against the TOS.
Edited by ChairGraveyard on April 28, 2014 11:45PM2 -
EQBallzz✭✭✭✭✭
✭Not sure if I am for or against this but how do you think it makes pvp less "zergtastic"? I think it has the opposite effect. If there is a cap on AE dmg won't people zerg more since it will be far safer to be in a large group? As it stands now it would be quite dangerous to all be grouped up together for fear of being AE'd together. I would think it would also be more realistic that an AE spell over a certain area would damage everyone in that area not some arbitrary number.1 -
ROFL, @ChairGraveyard those people "stacking" sure seem a lot more organized than the idiots running into the middle of them in a steady stream.
And I suppose the use of the nightblade ability to go invisible or the DK's ability to take only 2% max hp dmg per hit is Exploiting to you as well
Edited by BenjaminKacher_ESO on April 28, 2014 11:53PM0 -
ChairGraveyard✭✭✭✭
I'll make sure to report you if you're planning on exploiting and cheating.BenjaminKacher_ESO wrote: »ROFL, @ChairGraveyard
Cheating is SO FUNNY right?
And if you don't think abusing game mechanics to exploit is cheating, think again - it's literally spelled out in the TOS.Edited by ChairGraveyard on April 28, 2014 11:54PM2 -
Daverios✭✭✭✭ChairGraveyard wrote: »A) they are not abusing anything. They are organized. Its much easier to abuse infinite targets being hit by aoe. It is more realistic. Do you think an flame thrower hits everyone or just the people in the front.
I support this change as it makes pvp just a lil less zergtastic. Please do not listen to the whiners.
A) A giant blob is the opposite of organized. Also, abusing game mechanics is exploiting, and against the TOS, regardless of how much you like the exploit yourself.
Let me restate this, since you seem to have not understood it.
Abusing game mechanics (such as making your group invulnerable because of the AoE cap by stacking) IS EXPLOITING AS DEFINED BY THE TERMS OF SERVICE.
Your opinion does not matter. The Terms of Service clearly denote that abusing game mechanics in this fashion is cheating and against the TOS.
My opinion matters everybit as much as yours. In fact I have 2 accounts I play so do I get to vote twice.
If you think sticking in a tight group in a game where the majority of heals is smart and aoe based is abuse then you are not playing eso smart. Adjust your strategy and take out the healers.
Again the blob is not about aoe it is about heals. Nothing else you are saying matters when you fail to realize this.
Edited by Daverios on April 29, 2014 12:03AM2 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So... which is worse, needing to use some single target abilities to pick people off... or a vampire with batswarm, broken talons, and a mistform that recharges every second?1 -
ChairGraveyard✭✭✭✭
Actually no. Because I'm not basing what I say on opinion.
My opinion matters everybit as much as yours.
I'm basing it on the Terms of Service, which defines abusing game mechanics as exploiting.
Exploiting is against the Terms of Service. That is an objective fact, unlike your opinion.
So no, your opinion doesn't matter, and I never stated one (abusing game mechanics for unfair advantage = exploiting, specifically against the TOS, which is objective fact, not an opinion).
Edited by ChairGraveyard on April 28, 2014 11:56PM2 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ChairGraveyard wrote: »
Actually no. Because I'm not basing what I say on opinion.
My opinion matters everybit as much as yours.
I'm basing it on the Terms of Service, which defines abusing game mechanics as exploiting.
Exploiting is against the Terms of Service. That is an objective fact, unlike your opinion.
So no, your opinion doesn't matter, and I never stated one (abusing game mechanics for unfair advantage = exploiting, specifically against the TOS, which is objective fact, not an opinion).
Just a note... using the bold tags doesn't automatically make your opinion more valid. Just pick them off the old fashioned way, with single target murder powers, while they're trying to sort out their aoe.2 -
ChairGraveyard✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »Just a note... using the bold tags doesn't automatically make your opinion more valid.
Good thing I never stated an opinion.
Exploiting is against the Terms of Service. That is objective fact (do you not understand English, or just didn't read your TOS?).
Abusing game mechanics for unfair advantages = exploiting, AS DEFINED IN THE TERMS OF SERVICE.
Neither of those are opinion.
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RosenburgerSoul ShrivenNot only will finding the healers be a problem, targeting and hitting them without walking into the middle of the zerg should be fun.
Rosenburger
Imperial DK -EP on AB1 -
Orchish✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ah Pryda. Him and his buddies dominate Auriel's bow. I don't complain though, i just run in the opposite direction.0 -
Nybling✭✭✭✭✭/facepalm.
This isn't exploiting. Jesus Christ.Member, Entropy Rising
- Beta Tester since March 2013.
- Psijic Tester since October 2013
- Veteran Rank 16 once upon a time1 -
There is no exploit here... they aren't "abusing" anything... they are using the game mechanics...The statement "if you put enough monkeys behind enough typewriters... sooner or later one will produce the works of Shakespeare" has sadly been proven utterly wrong by the internet...1 -
SuperScrubby✭✭✭They can't ban those people because they're only adhering to the new rules that they put in place. The game doesn't reward you for spreading out so moving in a giant blob helps protect you from being ganked. Strength in numbers right? That's all this is since thats what ZM wanted by adding aoe caps in. Otherwise they wouldn't add such a ridiculous mechanic into a game that's supposed to be giant AvA.1
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starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ChairGraveyard wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Just a note... using the bold tags doesn't automatically make your opinion more valid.
Good thing I never stated an opinion.
Exploiting is against the Terms of Service. That is objective fact (do you not understand English, or just didn't read your TOS?).
Abusing game mechanics for unfair advantages = exploiting, AS DEFINED IN THE TERMS OF SERVICE.
Neither of those are opinion.
Well, the stuff you've been putting in bold have been opinions. The stuff that's not in bold is a slightly better mix of opinion and fact.1 -
driosketch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Why not have DKs chain pull people out of the clomp and nuke them.
You can also set siege at forts, keeps, resources, and choke point gates, which people do anyways, and are the locations every zerg is headed for.
Edited by driosketch on April 29, 2014 12:11AMMain: Drio Azul ~ DC, Redguard, Healer/Magicka Templar ~ NA-PC
●The Psijic Order●The Sidekick Order●Great House Hlaalu●Bal-Busters●0 -
Attorneyatlawl✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭stefaan.de.wasch1b16_ESO wrote: »There is no exploit here... they aren't "abusing" anything... they are using the game mechanics...
Don' like logic round dese here parts, bruddah...
/sarcasm Edited by Attorneyatlawl on April 29, 2014 12:11AM-First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent.
Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!
-Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
________________
-In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.1 -
dietlime✭✭✭✭ChairGraveyard wrote: »
Actually no. Because I'm not basing what I say on opinion.
My opinion matters everybit as much as yours.
I'm basing it on the Terms of Service, which defines abusing game mechanics as exploiting.
Exploiting is against the Terms of Service. That is an objective fact, unlike your opinion.
So no, your opinion doesn't matter, and I never stated one (abusing game mechanics for unfair advantage = exploiting, specifically against the TOS, which is objective fact, not an opinion).
Your opinion is that this is an exploit, it's a bad opinion because it's something that emerges naturally through gameplay.0 -
ChairGraveyard✭✭✭✭
Your opinion is that this is an exploit, it's a bad opinion because it's something that emerges naturally through gameplay.
Actually, The Terms of Service defines it as an exploit.
By your logic, the dupe bug isn't exploiting either, since it's exploiting an in game mechanic.
But you're wrong, it is, and exploiting other game mechanics falls under the same section of the Terms of Service, regardless of whether you personally think that form of cheating is okay.
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Dragos✭stefaan.de.wasch1b16_ESO wrote: »There is no exploit here... they aren't "abusing" anything... they are using the game mechanics...
You cant spell "abuse" without "use". Anyone who thinks stacking dozens of players in a tiny area to AVOID aoe is a good idea needs a lesson in common sense.
Maybe you know something the rest of the world doesn't. Perhaps you should go talk to the military and tell them they're doing it wrong. They need to know that the best way to avoid all the advancements in high powered, high area of effect bombs is to just stack people in one spot because obviously that would work.
Im sure if we gathered enough people in one place we can make a nuke ineffective, amirite?
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starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ChairGraveyard wrote: »
Your opinion is that this is an exploit, it's a bad opinion because it's something that emerges naturally through gameplay.
Actually, The Terms of Service defines it as an exploit.
By your logic, the dupe bug isn't exploiting either, since it's exploiting an in game mechanic.
But you're wrong, it is, and exploiting other game mechanics falls under the same section of the Terms of Service, regardless of whether you personally think that form of cheating is okay.
No, this isn't abusing a game mechanic. Duping is abusing. You see the difference?1 -
SuperScrubby✭✭✭They won't ban because they're paying subscribers that are only doing what the game allows them to do. If that's seen as an exploit then the developers need to figure something out to alleviate that by you know now putting it in place.
ZM is going for cash, and since this game is built around PvE questing and not PvP they won't ban anyone. They'll just continue to nerf PvP because you literally get no benefit from PvP, don't level up faster, don't make much gold, etc. PvE questing is where its supposed be at.0 -
ChairGraveyard✭✭✭✭
You didn't actually point out any difference. Thus proving my point.starkerealm wrote: »
No, this isn't abusing a game mechanic. Duping is abusing. You see the difference?Edited by ChairGraveyard on April 29, 2014 12:20AM0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ChairGraveyard wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »
No, this isn't abusing a game mechanic. Duping is abusing. You see the difference?
Explain, in DETAIL, how using the AoE cap by stacking to make your group invulnerable is not "abuse".
The game does not allow players to be invulnerable unless they abuse the AoE cap to do so. Classic example of an exploit.
You can't because you're full of it and are simply defending your favorite exploit.
Mmmm. No, I couldn't possibly be defending my favorite exploit because the game's been unplayable for a week, and I don't think this is even live yet.
Here's the difference, you can abuse the game mechanics to make a single vampire that is completely unkillable in PVP, and will easily wipe zergs. (Also not my favorite exploit, but it has kept me out of Cyrodill.) You can go find the recipe on your own time, if you're curious how to do this, but it is dependent on uncapped AOE damage.
So, clearly, a single vampire laying waste to 40-50 players at once isn't intended, and is an abuse of the AOE mechanics.
So, the devs have changed the AOE rules to prevent that. I'll say that again, and in bold, so you can hear it, they have changed the mechanics. This is now working as intended.
Duping is using a coding error to introduce new items into the game, it is not intended behavior.0 -
ChairGraveyard✭✭✭✭You posted nothing that explains how abusing AoE caps to cheat is different from abusing guild bank deposit/withdrawal in order to cheat.
Because they are both exploits, as defined by the TERMS OF SERVICE. Exploiting is against the Terms of Service regardless of whether or not the exploit is your favorite one or not.Edited by ChairGraveyard on April 29, 2014 12:28AM0 -
Daverios✭✭✭✭This thread is a mess of silly comments. Comparing pvp tactics to duping is just ....
Well I refuse to participate or listen.
Edited by Daverios on April 29, 2014 12:35AM0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ChairGraveyard wrote: »You posted nothing that explains how abusing AoE caps to cheat is different from abusing guild bank deposit/withdrawal in order to cheat.
Because they are both exploits, as defined by the TERMS OF SERVICE. Exploiting is against the Terms of Service regardless of whether or not the exploit is your favorite one or not.
I'm sorry, I must not have used enough bold text, let me try again. AOE is supposed to work this way now. Helpful?0 -
Attorneyatlawl✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »ChairGraveyard wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »
No, this isn't abusing a game mechanic. Duping is abusing. You see the difference?
Explain, in DETAIL, how using the AoE cap by stacking to make your group invulnerable is not "abuse".
The game does not allow players to be invulnerable unless they abuse the AoE cap to do so. Classic example of an exploit.
You can't because you're full of it and are simply defending your favorite exploit.
Mmmm. No, I couldn't possibly be defending my favorite exploit because the game's been unplayable for a week, and I don't think this is even live yet.
Here's the difference, you can abuse the game mechanics to make a single vampire that is completely unkillable in PVP, and will easily wipe zergs. (Also not my favorite exploit, but it has kept me out of Cyrodill.) You can go find the recipe on your own time, if you're curious how to do this, but it is dependent on uncapped AOE damage.
So, clearly, a single vampire laying waste to 40-50 players at once isn't intended, and is an abuse of the AOE mechanics.
So, the devs have changed the AOE rules to prevent that. I'll say that again, and in bold, so you can hear it, they have changed the mechanics. This is now working as intended.
Duping is using a coding error to introduce new items into the game, it is not intended behavior.
Logic won't get far with these people, any more than it did for asking for options like the buff icons or nameplates to be left in-game as options instead of forcefully turned off and in the case of these actually not even able to be done via addons (except self-buffs under 30 seconds). Instead the trolls whined and moaned so loudly that ZOS let them dictate how we should have to have our UI and screens look /rolleyes.
Trust me, don't waste your time. State your case and let the trolls argue themselves out...-First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent.
Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!
-Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
________________
-In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.0
This discussion has been closed.