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Summon Shade Visibility
trackdemon5512
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While we are retweaking aspects of this ability can we also make the shades themselves more visible? They’re currently practically impossible to see and when combating an opponent using the skill in PVP it’s extremely difficult to know where they will reappear.
Undo, an ultimate with the same warp back ability has a clear telegraph players can follow. It seems out of place that a regular skill can essentially perform better than an ultimate because it’s an instant warp, usually unclear where the player will return to, and can be spammed in a shorter amount of time.
Undo, an ultimate with the same warp back ability has a clear telegraph players can follow. It seems out of place that a regular skill can essentially perform better than an ultimate because it’s an instant warp, usually unclear where the player will return to, and can be spammed in a shorter amount of time.
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GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭While it's being reworked I'd also like to see the other morph, Dark Shade (the one that follows you), made into a toggle that remains active through bar swap.0 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No problem, but we also tune down by 300% sound cue of Merciless Resolve projectile, because it makes my grandma wake up 1 floor below whenever some fires it at me."We are currently investigating connection issues some players are having on the European megaservers. We will update as new information becomes available."
— They always claim they’re “investigating” the causes, but in reality they’re just waiting until the PC EU players go to bed. Once that happens, you can suddenly log in again and they happily mark the issue as Fixed.4 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
✭Maybe ZOS could add bright green text that says "WAIT TO AMBUSH NB HERE," with a bright green arrow pointing to the Shade.4 -
trackdemon5512✭✭✭✭✭
✭Maybe ZOS could add bright green text that says "WAIT TO AMBUSH NB HERE," with a bright green arrow pointing to the Shade.
The skill has insane versatility as it is now.
- It damages from range every 2 seconds for 20 seconds
- It inflicts a status effect (Minor Maim)
- It allows an instantaneous teleport over a range of 28 meters
- It grants you major resolve for 6 seconds (skill line passive)
- It’s a regular ability so it can be used repeatedly in succession as long as you have magicka
Contrast that with Undo/Temporal Guard
- an ultimate that costs 127 or so points
- Minor protection while slotted
- Reset Mag/Stam/Health by 4 seconds
- A dmg shield that absorbs 6k dmg and comes back after 10 seconds of not blocking (skill line passive)
- a noticeable telegraph when used
The Shade is without a doubt better than a similar ultimate. Asking for the shade itself to just be made clearer/easier to see is a no brainer.2 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It does show up on your compass as a red dot, but when I'm searching for that red dot typically it's because the Nightblade has already teleported away.
PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK1 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
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I just don't see it as an issue at all. I mean, when was the last time you were actually scared of a Magblade? The only thing they're good at now is running away from a fight. Hell, they're not even that great at bombing anymore.trackdemon5512 wrote: »Maybe ZOS could add bright green text that says "WAIT TO AMBUSH NB HERE," with a bright green arrow pointing to the Shade.
The skill has insane versatility as it is now.
- It damages from range every 2 seconds for 20 seconds
- It inflicts a status effect (Minor Maim)
- It allows an instantaneous teleport over a range of 28 meters
- It grants you major resolve for 6 seconds (skill line passive)
- It’s a regular ability so it can be used repeatedly in succession as long as you have magicka
Contrast that with Undo/Temporal Guard
- an ultimate that costs 127 or so points
- Minor protection while slotted
- Reset Mag/Stam/Health by 4 seconds
- A dmg shield that absorbs 6k dmg and comes back after 10 seconds of not blocking (skill line passive)
- a noticeable telegraph when used
The Shade is without a doubt better than a similar ultimate. Asking for the shade itself to just be made clearer/easier to see is a no brainer.
First off, no NB is using Shadow Image for the [extremely weak] DoT or the [recently nerfed] Minor Maim, I can tell you that right now — the ability is good for one thing, and one thing only: getting out of a jam. Even then, it's usually a pretty simple thing to figure out the NB's gameplan & in almost all cases it's fairly easy to counter it. You just have to be observant.
You did forget to mention two things re: Undo/Temporal Guard:
- it only requires a single cast
- it has has no maximum range (i.e. you are not tethered to a zone for it to be usable)
These two points make the skill significantly easier to use than Shadow Image. I can't tell you how many times I've died after porting because of 2 or 3 separate attacks landing on me *after* I've ported, or instead of porting I simply recast Shade because I'm a couple feet outside of it's range. When it works, it's great. However when it fails, it fails spectacularly.
Shadow Image is definitely a strong ability, don't get me wrong — but in the end it is simply an escape tool. If you think it has "insane versatility," I have to wonder what you think of Streak. I could literally replace 3 NB abilities (Lotus Fan, Shade, Mass Hysteria) with that skill. (Which would be fantastic considering how cramped my bars are due to the relative one-dimensionality of most NB abilities.)
Magblades are already in a really bad place right now, and IMO it's the last spec that needs a nerf. Sure, Shadow Image can be annoying to play against — but unlike other overtuned abilities in this game, it's not as if it's actually going to kill you.5 -
trackdemon5512✭✭✭✭✭
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I just don't see it as an issue at all. I mean, when was the last time you were actually scared of a Magblade? The only thing they're good at now is running away from a fight. Hell, they're not even that great at bombing anymore.trackdemon5512 wrote: »Maybe ZOS could add bright green text that says "WAIT TO AMBUSH NB HERE," with a bright green arrow pointing to the Shade.
The skill has insane versatility as it is now.
- It damages from range every 2 seconds for 20 seconds
- It inflicts a status effect (Minor Maim)
- It allows an instantaneous teleport over a range of 28 meters
- It grants you major resolve for 6 seconds (skill line passive)
- It’s a regular ability so it can be used repeatedly in succession as long as you have magicka
Contrast that with Undo/Temporal Guard
- an ultimate that costs 127 or so points
- Minor protection while slotted
- Reset Mag/Stam/Health by 4 seconds
- A dmg shield that absorbs 6k dmg and comes back after 10 seconds of not blocking (skill line passive)
- a noticeable telegraph when used
The Shade is without a doubt better than a similar ultimate. Asking for the shade itself to just be made clearer/easier to see is a no brainer.
First off, no NB is using Shadow Image for the [extremely weak] DoT or the [recently nerfed] Minor Maim, I can tell you that right now — the ability is good for one thing, and one thing only: getting out of a jam. Even then, it's usually a pretty simple thing to figure out the NB's gameplan & in almost all cases it's fairly easy to counter it. You just have to be observant.
You did forget to mention two things re: Undo/Temporal Guard:
- it only requires a single cast
- it has has no maximum range (i.e. you are not tethered to a zone for it to be usable)
These two points make the skill significantly easier to use than Shadow Image. I can't tell you how many times I've died after porting because of 2 or 3 separate attacks landing on me *after* I've ported, or instead of porting I simply recast Shade because I'm a couple feet outside of it's range. When it works, it's great. However when it fails, it fails spectacularly.
Shadow Image is definitely a strong ability, don't get me wrong — but in the end it is simply an escape tool. If you think it has "insane versatility," I have to wonder what you think of Streak. I could literally replace 3 NB abilities (Lotus Fan, Shade, Mass Hysteria) with that skill. (Which would be fantastic considering how cramped my bars are due to the relative one-dimensionality of most NB abilities.)
Magblades are already in a really bad place right now, and IMO it's the last spec that needs a nerf. Sure, Shadow Image can be annoying to play against — but unlike other overtuned abilities in this game, it's not as if it's actually going to kill you.
1) Undo/Temporal Guard like ultimates has a cast time; and
2) It’s range is dependent on how far can you travel in a straight line in 4 seconds.
If you cast Undo a player can follow you back to your restart location. And you can’t do it again until you refill your ultimate.
Shade on the other hand doesn’t have these limitations. The warp is instant. The warp cannot be traced as it goes from point A to point B with no visual telegraph. Shade can instantly be used again. Shade’s 28 meter distance is instantly more versatile than Undo because you have a long time to warp back. Meanwhile Undo gives you 4 seconds and you can’t choose the location without timing it out.
It’s unbalanced and better than an ultimate. And when combating a nightblade along two vectors (flat terrain) is one thing, it’s a completely different experience when three vectors are in play and a NB is kiting behind rocks, walls, warping during multiple falls back to back.
So asking for a clearer image of the shade and where it is (because currently it’s practically invisible to opponents) seems like a small concession for balance.0 -
Dojohoda✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Shade has been nerfed, the radius used to be larger, and it's been broken. It is one of the few nightblade skills that is fairly reliable. It's a skill (that requires thinking) that actually allows nightblades to be tricky. How about let's leave it alone.Fan of playing magblade since 2015. (PC NA)
Might be joking in comments.
-->(((Cyrodiil)))<--6 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Shade has been nerfed, the radius used to be larger, and it's been broken. It is one of the few nightblade skills that is fairly reliable. It's a skill (that requires thinking) that actually allows nightblades to be tricky. How about let's leave it alone.
exactly
it is meant to use in stealth and is a stealth tool.
it needs to be "buffed" not made weak and it needs to not be visible.
in other words,
"leave it alone."
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Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
✭trackdemon5512 wrote: »
I just don't see it as an issue at all. I mean, when was the last time you were actually scared of a Magblade? The only thing they're good at now is running away from a fight. Hell, they're not even that great at bombing anymore.trackdemon5512 wrote: »Maybe ZOS could add bright green text that says "WAIT TO AMBUSH NB HERE," with a bright green arrow pointing to the Shade.
The skill has insane versatility as it is now.
- It damages from range every 2 seconds for 20 seconds
- It inflicts a status effect (Minor Maim)
- It allows an instantaneous teleport over a range of 28 meters
- It grants you major resolve for 6 seconds (skill line passive)
- It’s a regular ability so it can be used repeatedly in succession as long as you have magicka
Contrast that with Undo/Temporal Guard
- an ultimate that costs 127 or so points
- Minor protection while slotted
- Reset Mag/Stam/Health by 4 seconds
- A dmg shield that absorbs 6k dmg and comes back after 10 seconds of not blocking (skill line passive)
- a noticeable telegraph when used
The Shade is without a doubt better than a similar ultimate. Asking for the shade itself to just be made clearer/easier to see is a no brainer.
First off, no NB is using Shadow Image for the [extremely weak] DoT or the [recently nerfed] Minor Maim, I can tell you that right now — the ability is good for one thing, and one thing only: getting out of a jam. Even then, it's usually a pretty simple thing to figure out the NB's gameplan & in almost all cases it's fairly easy to counter it. You just have to be observant.
You did forget to mention two things re: Undo/Temporal Guard:
- it only requires a single cast
- it has has no maximum range (i.e. you are not tethered to a zone for it to be usable)
These two points make the skill significantly easier to use than Shadow Image. I can't tell you how many times I've died after porting because of 2 or 3 separate attacks landing on me *after* I've ported, or instead of porting I simply recast Shade because I'm a couple feet outside of it's range. When it works, it's great. However when it fails, it fails spectacularly.
Shadow Image is definitely a strong ability, don't get me wrong — but in the end it is simply an escape tool. If you think it has "insane versatility," I have to wonder what you think of Streak. I could literally replace 3 NB abilities (Lotus Fan, Shade, Mass Hysteria) with that skill. (Which would be fantastic considering how cramped my bars are due to the relative one-dimensionality of most NB abilities.)
Magblades are already in a really bad place right now, and IMO it's the last spec that needs a nerf. Sure, Shadow Image can be annoying to play against — but unlike other overtuned abilities in this game, it's not as if it's actually going to kill you.
1) Undo/Temporal Guard like ultimates has a cast time; and
2) It’s range is dependent on how far can you travel in a straight line in 4 seconds.
If you cast Undo a player can follow you back to your restart location. And you can’t do it again until you refill your ultimate.
Shade on the other hand doesn’t have these limitations. The warp is instant. The warp cannot be traced as it goes from point A to point B with no visual telegraph. Shade can instantly be used again. Shade’s 28 meter distance is instantly more versatile than Undo because you have a long time to warp back. Meanwhile Undo gives you 4 seconds and you can’t choose the location without timing it out.
It’s unbalanced and better than an ultimate. And when combating a nightblade along two vectors (flat terrain) is one thing, it’s a completely different experience when three vectors are in play and a NB is kiting behind rocks, walls, warping during multiple falls back to back.
So asking for a clearer image of the shade and where it is (because currently it’s practically invisible to opponents) seems like a small concession for balance.
I understand all of that, I just disagree that it's an issue.
I don't agree that Shade is "better" than Undo, it's just different. Undo is a guaranteed reset, putting your health back to full (or at least close to it) whereas Shade in many cases simply delays the inevitable — against ranged builds, you often simply die shortly after porting. Undo can be cast at any point in time, regardless as to where you are, whereas Shade requires planning, foresight, and a lot of attention to positioning.
Even if Shade was hands-down better than Undo, that wouldn't necessarily mean there's anything wrong with Shade — maybe Undo needs improvement. Consuming Darkness is one of the most useless and unused ultimates in the game & there are plenty of normal skills that are better than it. Does that mean all those skills need to be reworked as well? Of course not.
Also, it's important to look at class toolkits in their totality, rather than just picking one skill by itself to dissect. For instance, outside of one ultimate morph, magblades have no burst heal in their toolkit. In fact, aside from Refreshing Path they have they don't even have a way of healing themselves that doesn't require first attacking an opponent (and Path only provides a relatively worthless 1k/sec.) This is why escape tools like Cloak and Shade are necessary for their survival in the first place.
Even before I started using Shade myself I never really had a problem dealing with it. You just have to pay closer attention to what the NB is doing. At worst, Shade is a minor annoyance to me.
As I asked before: if you think Shade is unbalanced, what do you think of Streak? And just out of curiosity, what class do you main?2 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You say shade is better than undo. Did you ever used it on a sorc? Use streak 5 times in a row then undo and get almost all resources back if they still are on you or do not use it if you managed to lose them.
Actually as someone who have access to shade and undo I can say that, if I could, I would be glad to swap those skills. Why? If I'm in a trouble I use shade, but when it's that "oh **** situation" when you are caught with your pants down it's undo who saves the day, not shade.
Shade requires few things to be useful:
1. It needs to be placed proactively.
2. You need to create the distance, its not like streak or BoL, it doesn't do it for you. If you are rooted or snared, guess what? It's useless.
3. You need to keep in mind it has duration and range. You can't use it mindlessly. Also in an open field shade won't help you because of ranged attacks and gap closers.
While undo even when standing and doing nothing does help you. If you're being ambushed you can use it to go from execute range to 100% in a second. It restores your resources (ofc it has to be used wisely to) and with good speed it can move you more than 2 times further than shade.
Edit:
And no, undo does not have a cast time. It's instant.Edited by Mayrael on October 5, 2021 10:01AM"We are currently investigating connection issues some players are having on the European megaservers. We will update as new information becomes available."
— They always claim they’re “investigating” the causes, but in reality they’re just waiting until the PC EU players go to bed. Once that happens, you can suddenly log in again and they happily mark the issue as Fixed.3 -
Jaimeh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No problem, but we also tune down by 300% sound cue of Merciless Resolve projectile, because it makes my grandma wake up 1 floor below whenever some fires it at me.
This... one of the strongest skills in NB's toolkit and it never lands because there's a symphonic orchestra announcing its arrival each time.Edited by Jaimeh on October 5, 2021 10:14AM3 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Meh, I'm just glad after 7 years, the teleport activation can finally be used while falling from a height.Edited by exeeter702 on October 5, 2021 9:33PM0 -
Thecompton73✭✭✭✭✭IMHO as someone that has NB's but doesn't use the ability shade is fine as is. As soon as an enemy NB drops one I hear the sound and am able find it pretty much every time. Then I'll just stop and camp it, ready to stun/burst them the second they teleport back to it.
As others have said it takes quite a bit of planning to use it well. And while 28 meters sounds like a good range the very reason I don't use shade is because it's actually incredibly restrictive when you have to play to stay within range while surrounded by enemies on a squishy NB.
Shade is basically only good for jumping off a drop-off and hope people follow before they notice you cast shade.1