SkerKro wrote: »

Hmm. I have yet to see fee used, or donations used in the place of fee.

What I do see is: Weekly DUES are required / preferred / suggested / welcomed when available.

Not saying that the term or phrase of donations/fees hasn't been used ever, just seems off, especially when majority of the guilds advertised in game and on the forums use almost the same terminology.

The guilds I've seen (and been in) that have said, "please donate," were ones who were asking for assistance.

I've seen many guilds with dues (or quotas in lieu of dues). Can't remember any calling those, "fees," but it would make sense.

However, you're right, I haven't seen someone calling their dues, "donations." Doesn't mean it doesn't happen, but, I can't remember ever seeing that.

This is far from being an ESO-only problem.

I could not agree more with the OP’s eloquent turn of phrase: “Its so frustrating when people don't educate themselves good enough.“

ChunkyCat wrote: »

You forgot to donate your forum fees.

Send me one million gold or you’re banned for life.

Have some cheese instead:

All of the trade guilds I am in have minimum Weekly Dues, in various forms either raffle tickets/sales tax/winning auction bids etc...

Since the deposits are tracked with an add on, quite a few of the officers in the guilds I am in have gone out of their way to make the point that it tracks 1K amounts for tickets for example: 1000 gold gets you one ticket, 1001 gold is a donation.

The only time the guilds I am in have asked for donations, is in the mail asking for stuff for auctions and raffle prizes its completely optional and gets sent to every member.


And if the guild your in is not bidding for a trader each week, there should be no reason for fees, if they are asking for donations for events that's one thing but if they are asking for a min fee each week, that is likely just going to the GM.


I would be very suspicious of any guild that is pushing/begging for donations, or asking for payment weeks in advance.

Have a friend who was in a trade guild, that's GM really pushed for donations, one week out of the blue, then disbanded the guild after emptying the guild bank.

buttaface wrote: »

Meaningless distinction. There is nothing wrong with calling a mandatory fee for membership a donation. Try to get into a club for a particular charity or get a ticket to a charity "plate" dinner or a "member" status in a nonprofit, and the issue falls apart like toilet paper in the rain.

You aren't forced to donate, but if you don't, you are kicked from the club.

This is a whole different set of circumstances that is not the same as in our game. Donation is used so those clubs are not considered to be making an income from selling those aspects of the club. The have privileges from taxes that go away if they sell something.

Not even a issue in the game.

Yeah, it´s in part semantics, and english isn´t everyone´s first language. I´m kind of nitpicky with words, but it´s of course no big deal, really. The terms are clear enough.

Others do it too, like calling giving me useless trash that I must accept in order to get non-trash 4 days later, then forcing me to type in an all-caps word to get rid of said trash, a "reward".

I agree that calling a fee or dues a "donation" and then saying it is mandatory is silly. There are scenarios where participation in, say, a charitable event requires a payment and then will be considered a donation but that type of logic makes no sense in an online game.

However I don't agree that people/entities/guilds etc. shouldn't ask for a donation and the differentiation has anything to do with the asking. People can ask for anything. What differentiates a fee vs. a donation is whether it is enforced/required.

I will add that, due to the multi-bidding system, many trade guilds can no longer sustain themselves on sales taxes alone. As a result, some trade guilds are reluctantly increasing their quotas, usually requesting a mix of more sales, raffle tickets, or donations if you'd prefer. In that case the donation is only "required" if you fail to meet the other criteria and it is up to you to decide whether you feel as if the donation is masquerading as a fee. One can usually tell by the guild's community and communications whether the intent is sincere vs. scammy and to a certain extent I would give your new guild the benefit of the doubt, at least for a week or two, unless the "donation requirement" is outrageous. Sales minimums are part of how trade guilds work and the guilds are in the midst of trying to adjust and give people different options that work best for them so that the guilds can keep their traders and the traders can keep selling items.

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

@NekoTashi, what would happen if you talked to these guild leaders/officers directly about the issue?

Broadcasting it in the forums, when the majority of guilds have no problems with distinguishing between the two, may not be effective.

he can reach more people that does not know about it.. so here is the right place

NekoTashi wrote: »

The reason why I start this topic is because many guild leaders/officers use the term "donation" as a fee. Like for example: Your donation must be paid between x and x or else you will get kicked! See my point here?! That's not a donation guys. That's a fee!!! Its so frustrating when people don't educate themselves good enough. They also have some reading problems apparently cause I specifically state on my application form that I'm looking for a FEE FREE GUILD. And they still add me to their guild while trying to force a donation out of me lol.

These kids have left school too early imo.

"You must donate" LOL

In my experience most guilds to not charge a fee, certainly not casual guilds or those open to new players.

Instead most guilds do ask for donations, explaining that the funds are needed to gain a guild trader, which allows everyone to sell unwanted items and make gold. This in turn generates funds for the guild and allows the purchase of guild house items etc that again benefit everyone in the guild.

To incentivise donations, almost every guild I have been in has a system whereby in order to use the guild trader, you have to donate a minimum each week, or a minimum in total. Additionally most guilds I have been in also run weekly or monthly raffle prize draws, with minimum fees to purchase "tickets". Again the purpose being to generate guild funds for all the above.

I imagine there are people out there who confuse donation and fee or who expect more of casual players than they have a right to. But for the most part even in relatively ineffective or unorganised guilds, this matter has not been an issue in my experience.

NekoTashi wrote: »

A donation is something you get WITHOUT ASKING FOR IT! People know that they have the ability to gift someone something, okay! We are not stupid lol.

A donation can be requested. Organizations solicit donations all the time.

The real difference between a donation and a fee is one is optional while the other is required.

ugh, lol. Just noticed how this is a dead thread.