You forgot to put (just another nb complaint thread) at the end of your post title.

Ganking is a valid playstyle. Know why? Because that's what NBs are best at in pvp these days. Don't hate the playa.

It's also not easy. Takes most people MONTHS to get really good at it. The people who can kill you easy are those who spent a lot of time figuring out what skills to use and how to best use them in a rotation.

Also if it takes me 3-5 skills plus light attacks to kill you, then you had ample time to react.

If I were spitballing I'd say I die once for every 20 people I kill on average. BUT, and here's the hitch, I only play my stamblade save tier 1 for transmutes, and have done so for 2 years since I started. I used to get killed all the time. I gradually got better and better. That's how it should be.

Iriidius wrote: »

A duell is definitely won by power and not by skill if i dodge(roll or by movement) or block every attack of my opponent and he doesnt block or dodge my attacks until somewhen I am out of stamina and get burstet and if the enemy can stand still and not block and only heal and still survive, while i cant outheal his damage when i am blocking and moving around/threw him. I think if you use active defenses you should survive, if you dont you shouldnt.

For sure. I am telling people that passive defense is at an all time high right now, but no one seems to want to admit it. At most I can get people to deflect the problem unto proc sets, but I played ravenwatch a good bit and the problem still exists. If anything without proc sets the passive defense problem just gets worse because you have no OP sets to counter act it.

I have this habit now where I "test" someone's passive defense and memorize the people I can and can't kill. I scan a siege and if I see "tanklet lord" I just ignore him and go after "silly-magsorc-with-his-shields-turned-off". Sometimes "tanklet lord" is protecting his squishies, so I have to lure him away so I can sneak back in and kill his flock. Games should never have players that you simply cannot kill and have to ignore. Even if a player out skills me I should still have a chance to win if he plays badly, but POWER makes that not true. Even more F'ed up is when that same player can 1 gcd you if you do attempt to fight him. I am a glass cannon so I expect to die fast, but I also expect to kill fast. Great POWER should come at a cost, but right now you can have all the passive defensive power and not really suffer in the damage department. I think this is textbook unbalance.

divnyi wrote: »

Iriidius wrote: »

A duell is definitely won by power and not by skill if i dodge(roll or by movement) or block every attack of my opponent and he doesnt block or dodge my attacks until somewhen I am out of stamina and get burstet and if the enemy can stand still and not block and only heal and still survive, while i cant outheal his damage when i am blocking and moving around/threw him. I think if you use active defenses you should survive, if you dont you shouldnt.

There is literally zero skill in holding block. You can easily do LA -> Skill+block with any skill without channel or cast time.
You can't dodge infinitely because this isn't dark souls.

Active defences cost because they can negate tonns of damage. Skill is to time them carefully and not overuse.

And ofc gear matters, who would have guessed, right?

Still takes more skill then the people crutching on passive defense. I got much more respect for people that block, then the ones who don't even need to. If it required blocking to be as powerful as some of these builds are I wouldn't even have a problem with pvp right now.

Tanky because he is blocking my burst? Alright that is good counter play.

Tanky because of his build? Nah he didn't even have to push any buttons, no skill.

The build plays the game for these clowns. No need to learn to position better or keep defenses up. No need to get better reaction speeds. Just stand still at your ballista and let the armor play the game for you.

divnyi wrote: »

Still takes more skill then the people crutching on cloak. I got much more respect for people that passive defense, then the ones who don't even need to. If it required mitigations to be as powerful as some of these builds are I wouldn't even have a problem with pvp right now.

Bursty because he is sacrificing defences? Alright that is good counter play.

Bursty because of one skill? Nah he didn't even have to take any damage, no skill.

The build plays the game for these clowns. No need to learn to position better or keep defenses up. No need to get better reaction speeds. Just stand still in your crouch and let the cloak play the game for you.

Cloak is active defense and one of the only ones with counters so hard that it gets completely turned off. Imagine how hard tanklets would SEETHE if a potion that gave you 15 seconds of oblivion damage existed. Passive defense is counter able with Knight slay... oh right this game caters to the reflexlets and power players so its totally useless. Hrothgar? Wasn't even given a chance to be balanced, went straight into the trash bin. Game completely caters to you and you still get ganked by us and you still come here to complain.

"Bursty because he is sacrificing defences? Alright that is good counter play."
That is literally a ganker, I would advice you proof read before you copy paste someone's comment in an attempt to be witty.

"No need to learn to position better or keep defenses up"
If a glass cannon does neither of these things they die instantly. Meanwhile the average tanklet charges straight into ten players(which by the way is a horrible position) and manages to stay alive. Defenses are built in, so they are already up.

"No need to get better reaction speeds."
Actually true in a way, I am already faster then any tanklet. The average ganker needs to react fast though or they will die instantly.

Write your own comment next time.

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

Games should never have players that you simply cannot kill and have to ignore.

You chosen a gameplay where you oneshot ppl from stealth or die trying. Ppl build defensively and survive your burst. What else do you expect them to do? You literally limited viable counterplays to this, now you go on forums and [snip] that armor is too strong.

If you call being bruisers POWER, build yourself a bruiser like that and dominate. I bet you don't even know that all that tankiness is in fact not only HP and armor.

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

That is literally a ganker, I would advice you proof read before you copy paste someone's comment in an attempt to be witty.

You don't have less defence if you snipeblade gank properly. I know that because I used to run simmering and had no problem surviving. You don't need defence if nobody can hit you even once.

Dropping defences for burst on any non-NB class is in magnitudes higher risk than dropping defences on NB. Guess why?

[edited for slight bait]

divnyi wrote: »

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

Games should never have players that you simply cannot kill and have to ignore.

If you call being bruisers POWER, build yourself a bruiser like that and dominate. I bet you don't even know that all that tankiness is in fact not only HP and armor.

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

That is literally a ganker, I would advice you proof read before you copy paste someone's comment in an attempt to be witty.

You don't have less defence if you snipeblade gank properly. I know that because I used to run simmering and had no problem surviving. You don't need defence if nobody can hit you even once.

Dropping defences for burst on any non-NB class is in magnitudes higher risk than dropping defences on NB. Guess why?

Nah those aren't bruisers or heavy brawlers(as I call them), they are legit tanky. I can tell by how many GCDs of inaction it takes to kill them. I run into a lot of afk players as a ganker, so I get lots of opportunities to test their passive defense.

1 GCD and its another glass cannon or a pver during an event

2 GCDs and its a normal dps build

3 GCDs and its a heavy brawler. Thats a heavy attack + silvershards + two mystery burst proc sets on the first attack, then Ult + light attack on attack 2, then execute + light attack on attack 3. This feels the most fair and balanced for pvp. More then enough time to react and start avoiding the damage in three GCDs.

4+ GCDs and I am dealing with a tanklet or a trial tank who wanted to try pvp. That is way too many turns of inaction to kill someone. Feels like their low reaction speed is being compensated for with passive defense. Anything in this tier needs action from Zos, either an actual tank buster set or they buff one of the old ones. You shouldn't be able to sit on your ass for 4 gcds against a glass cannon and still be alive. You sure as hell shouldn't also have massive burst or enough heals to revive to full hp in 1 gcd. This is straight up unbalanced and deserves a hard counter on par with detect pots.

"You don't have less defence if you snipeblade gank properly. I know that because I used to run simmering and had no problem surviving. You don't need defence if nobody can hit you even once."

Right we have 1 solid defense and it has REALLY good hard counters. That is fair because it is so strong it should have strong counters. Only absolute trash tier gankers are still using snipe, that is all I will say about that. I don't think you really know what I am talking about when I say tanklets if you are still using snipe. I think this is why you think I am talking about bruiser's when I say this game has too much passive defense. Its right in between Trial tank and Bruiser and its getting more and more common. Idk how they build this way or what they are doing, but it has to be stopped.

Rebiludo wrote: »

Reasoning by GCD quite valid for 1v1. But the tanklet has the right to choose gameplay for other types of more multi-player combat. He wants to resist 4 enemies who fall on him while he is alone. It's up to us to accept that the gameplay we have chosen does not have a solution for all cases.

We cannot kill everyone, we are killing enough already and we have a lot of choice of our targets 😀

I hate to suggest a power solution to a power problem, but this game is LONG overdue for a proper tank buster set or two. Or change oblivion damage to scale off armor/hp/DR instead of just ignoring it. I find that the problem with oblivion damage is that it hits everyone just as hard, when it should be just for killing tanks. So it always just ends up hitting everyone for low damage and you need big damage to kill a tank. Ideally oblivion damage enchant would be like 500 base damage, but it scales with every passive defense on your target and ignores them. Would hit pathetically small on a normal target, but harder then any other enchant on a tank.

See I have no problem changing my build to put a tanklet in his place, even if that makes me weaker against everyone else. Just give me the tools to do it. Right now our options as a ganker are to leave or wait until a zerg comes around and kills them...

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

Rebiludo wrote: »

Reasoning by GCD quite valid for 1v1. But the tanklet has the right to choose gameplay for other types of more multi-player combat. He wants to resist 4 enemies who fall on him while he is alone. It's up to us to accept that the gameplay we have chosen does not have a solution for all cases.

We cannot kill everyone, we are killing enough already and we have a lot of choice of our targets 😀

See I have no problem changing my build to put a tanklet in his place, even if that makes me weaker against everyone else. Just give me the tools to do it. Right now our options as a ganker are to leave or wait until a zerg comes around and kills them...

If no more gameplay can resist ganking ... we all become gankers and teso becomes entirely a game of hide and seek and detection potions. In an RPG, skill begins with theorycrafting and the choice of gameplay. If we want the only difference to be related to reflexes and precision, we go for a 100% action-oriented game but not on an RPG.

I'm gonna give you the hard truth.

First, no one is guaranteed a 1v1 in Cyrodiil. If you're fighting in the open, it's 99% sure someone running by will get involved. This is just as true for NBs as any other class. If you wanna 1v1 without interruption go to Riften.

Next, NBs are built for stealth. Yes there are the occasional NB brawlers but several patches back they were made less effective at standard melee combat. NB healers and Tanks aren't great for pvp. Every now and then you'll see one.

I'm sorry if anyone in this thread gets their feelings hurt because they got caught slipping but that's your own fault. If you're under 30k health you're much likely to get targeted so keep that in mind. Watch you back. If you're over 30k health, we can usually tell if your defenses are up or not. Keep that in mind.

I've went over techniques on how to not die to my hand before so I'm not going to do it again. I'll just say this. Stay moble and defend. If you're not going to go down in a timely fashion we break off for another target. Or we go down in a blaze of glory. I'm okay with both.

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

I'll just say this. Stay moble and defend. If you're not going to go down in a timely fashion we break off for another target. Or we go down in a blaze of glory. I'm okay with both.

Like good magsorcs. They keep their defenses up at all times because they know that a nb could be creeping around. If every player was playing that safe then ganking would be hard as hell. If you are ever just chilling and got literally nothing else to do you should always be holding block or activating you defensive buffs. Activate magelight, throw out flares, randomly start rolling, enter stealth, so many good ways for an active player to avoid getting ganked. We can kill you in under 3 gcds, but not if you are remaining active and ready. Its a shame cause there is so many veteran players that are not doing these simple things and then blaming NB for being too powerful.

I totally agree with you. There are many sources available for players to use to make it far more difficult for people to gank them. On my "buff bar", I slot radiant mage light, temporal guard and revealing flare. If I'm on a flag, back bar and block. Do I still die? Of course. If it was a fantastic death, I have no problem whispering the player and telling them it was a nice kill. Then I look at what I might have done wrong and try to do better next time. ie: Was I reading my map? Did I think I was safe standing still looking at my map while in enemy territory? Did I forget to pan around with my camera and look for tells?