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Still no changes to Survey mechanic?
TheDarkRuler
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In the forums many users cried out for changes for the survey mechanics.
I am writing in PTS while hoping a few more ZoS devs might see it.
Please do something about the way resource surveys are handled:
I am writing in PTS while hoping a few more ZoS devs might see it.
Please do something about the way resource surveys are handled:
- Make them respawn immediately once the last node is done
- When harvesting a node consume all surveys and increase the resource gained by an equal percentage
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BalticBlues✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭+1
CONSTANTLY HAVING TO RUN AWAY from the nodes you have to COLLECT
is poor game design, makes no sense at all and is tedious instead of fun.
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MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I've got 100s, maybe 1000s collected up for this very reason.. Spending hours of my day running back and forth because the Dev's didn't consider a respawn mechanic that doesn't involve exploiting line of sight to make the nodes reappear is beyond frustrating.6 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TheDarkRuler wrote: »In the forums many users cried out for changes for the survey mechanics.
I am writing in PTS while hoping a few more ZoS devs might see it.
Please do something about the way resource surveys are handled:- Make them respawn immediately once the last node is done
- When harvesting a node consume all surveys and increase the resource gained by an equal percentage
Much as I'd like the latter, I have had a few cases where I've had a crash or DC mid survey, and if it was eating five or six surveys at once, I'd be [snip].
[edited for profanity bypass]Edited by ZOS_Icy on October 4, 2021 10:55AM4 -
TheDarkRuler✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »TheDarkRuler wrote: »In the forums many users cried out for changes for the survey mechanics.
I am writing in PTS while hoping a few more ZoS devs might see it.
Please do something about the way resource surveys are handled:- Make them respawn immediately once the last node is done
- When harvesting a node consume all surveys and increase the resource gained by an equal percentage
Much as I'd like the latter, I have had a few cases where I've had a crash or DC mid survey, and if it was eating five or six surveys at once, I'd be [snip].
Ok thats a valid counter argument, I agree.
The 1st option would be better to protect versus fails like these.
Perhaps such things can even be added in the game-play option ("Harvest surveys all at once") which you can unflag if you know you're having bad internet.
That being said: I think the current survey mechanic are bad, terribly annoying and dont add anything to ESO except being a time-sink.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on October 4, 2021 10:56AM3 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ultimately, I don't think that the problem is collecting on duplicate surveys, but that there are duplicate surveys that need to be collected. This creates an awkwardness right from the start, and the above discussion really emphasizes this.
With that in mind, another thing they could do is go back to preventing us from carrying more than one of each survey. Before you flame me, consider that they could also do a smart RNG that always gave a survey the character did not have. (Heck, it's only back end database time) This way, it would only be an issue when things were so backed up on surveys that the character had them all. I suppose at that point they could just skip awarding the survey.
As a player, I very rarely "run away-run back" when I have a duplicate. I usually go get other surveys and come back later, or just come back next time I am going through surveys. As I said at the top, I see the problem in that I am getting duplicates in the first place.
XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus1 -
Xebov✭✭✭✭✭
✭Its designed as a time sink. The locations of surveys towards wayshrines together with the non respawning nature requires players to spend time in collecting them. Thats why i think its unlikely they ever change it because they want us to spend time getting resources.3 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think the instant respawn would be ideal. Should do the same for treasure maps as well. The moment you pull one into your inventory it should spawn in front of you.
They already have it so you can watch resource nodes and treasure chests respawn in world right in front of you.1 -
themaddaedra✭✭✭✭✭
✭I agree that it needs an update, long overdue even. Surveys represent a time when the game wasn't flooded with everyday activities to run after, far off from today.
The thing is, there's no real downside to making them reset after the last node is picked up. Some other alternatives (like making crafting dailies reward the resources automatically) might have an impact on the economy (tho some could argue that it's the least of concerns in eso economy rn). But making them spawn immediately and removing the eternal back and forth running sounds allright. It's still somewhat time consuming, it's still not *free resources* but just less tedious.
Edited by themaddaedra on September 23, 2021 2:58PMPC|EU0 -
Phaedryn✭✭✭
...
With that in mind, another thing they could do is go back to preventing us from carrying more than one of each survey. Before you flame me, consider that they could also do a smart RNG that always gave a survey the character did not have. (Heck, it's only back end database time) This way, it would only be an issue when things were so backed up on surveys that the character had them all. I suppose at that point they could just skip awarding the survey.
...
Please no. I only do Surveys when I have 5 or more of the same one. The *last* thing I want is for them to be treated just like Treasure Maps (which I destroy out of hand since storing them as single is a pain and just waste storage space).6 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭themaddaedra wrote: »The thing is, there's no real downside to making them reset after the last node is picked up.
Technically, "no downside..." that we know of.
It is possible that there are some significant technical issues about instantly re-spawning surveys we're not aware of. Though, at the same time, that would be significantly more convienent, and even if we had to wait a five or six seconds for the survey nodes to repopulate, it would be less obnoxious than what we have to deal with now.
That said, it is possible that the current system is there to address some technical issue. It requires us to move away from the survey node, but it's not measuring distance, as that is inconsistent. So, it's probably tracking when the player moves across some invisible border on the map. The same behavior is also true for treasure maps, if you pull one from your bank while standing on the site, it won't instantly appear.
It's also possible that the current system relates specifically to the old survey exploit, where someone would walk up to the nodes, bank their survey, and then loot the nodes, pull the survey back out respawning the nodes, and repeat.3 -
themaddaedra✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »themaddaedra wrote: »The thing is, there's no real downside to making them reset after the last node is picked up.
Technically, "no downside..." that we know of.
It is possible that there are some significant technical issues about instantly re-spawning surveys we're not aware of.
I wouldn't know, i feel like that's too basic. You can already see nodes spawning in front of you while in the world. So looks like the technology is there. But one can never be too sure with the way ESO is coded.
PC|EU0 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »themaddaedra wrote: »The thing is, there's no real downside to making them reset after the last node is picked up.
Technically, "no downside..." that we know of.
It is possible that there are some significant technical issues about instantly re-spawning surveys we're not aware of. Though, at the same time, that would be significantly more convienent, and even if we had to wait a five or six seconds for the survey nodes to repopulate, it would be less obnoxious than what we have to deal with now.
That said, it is possible that the current system is there to address some technical issue. It requires us to move away from the survey node, but it's not measuring distance, as that is inconsistent. So, it's probably tracking when the player moves across some invisible border on the map. The same behavior is also true for treasure maps, if you pull one from your bank while standing on the site, it won't instantly appear.
It's also possible that the current system relates specifically to the old survey exploit, where someone would walk up to the nodes, bank their survey, and then loot the nodes, pull the survey back out respawning the nodes, and repeat.
To elaborate on what you said...
My thinking is that all of this just takes advantage of systems already in place to put those nodes there, and avoids a "one-off" situation where they create a second system to put those nodes there because the player has multiple surveys.
The nodes only need to be there when the player gets close enough to see them. They don't need to be there just because they entered the zone. The game likely generates the nodes only when they get within a certain range. By running away and returning, the player exits that range and re-enters it, forcing the game to naturally regenerate the survey nodes.
Edited by Elsonso on September 24, 2021 2:52PMXBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus1 -
TheDarkRuler✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »themaddaedra wrote: »The thing is, there's no real downside to making them reset after the last node is picked up.
Technically, "no downside..." that we know of.
It is possible that there are some significant technical issues about instantly re-spawning surveys we're not aware of. Though, at the same time, that would be significantly more convienent, and even if we had to wait a five or six seconds for the survey nodes to repopulate, it would be less obnoxious than what we have to deal with now.
That said, it is possible that the current system is there to address some technical issue. It requires us to move away from the survey node, but it's not measuring distance, as that is inconsistent. So, it's probably tracking when the player moves across some invisible border on the map. The same behavior is also true for treasure maps, if you pull one from your bank while standing on the site, it won't instantly appear.
It's also possible that the current system relates specifically to the old survey exploit, where someone would walk up to the nodes, bank their survey, and then loot the nodes, pull the survey back out respawning the nodes, and repeat.
To elaborate on what you said...
My thinking is that all of this just takes advantage of systems already in place to put those nodes there, and avoids a "one-off" situation where they create a second system to put those nodes there because the player has multiple surveys.
The nodes only need to be there when the player gets close enough to see them. They don't need to be there just because they entered the zone. The game likely generates the nodes only when they get within a certain range. By running away and returning, the player exits that range and re-enters it, forcing the game to naturally regenerate the survey nodes.
I dont think there is such a thing as "taking advantage" of speeding up the looting process. If you have five Survey writs you are allowed to obtain 5 times the resources from it. So why is speeding it up not an allowed thing? There might be technical things that are not immediately allowing it but such is the thing of software development... you find a way eventually. Right now the system is a cripple, it could be much better.0 -
AinSoph✭✭✭✭✭Another idea is to multiply the resources by the number of survey copies.
It's right there nvmEdited by AinSoph on October 3, 2021 4:14AM0 -
FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ultimately, I don't think that the problem is collecting on duplicate surveys, but that there are duplicate surveys that need to be collected. This creates an awkwardness right from the start, and the above discussion really emphasizes this.
With that in mind, another thing they could do is go back to preventing us from carrying more than one of each survey. Before you flame me, consider that they could also do a smart RNG that always gave a survey the character did not have. (Heck, it's only back end database time) This way, it would only be an issue when things were so backed up on surveys that the character had them all. I suppose at that point they could just skip awarding the survey.
As a player, I very rarely "run away-run back" when I have a duplicate. I usually go get other surveys and come back later, or just come back next time I am going through surveys. As I said at the top, I see the problem in that I am getting duplicates in the first place.
Horrible, horrible, horrible idea.2 -
SirAndy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Surprisingly, this is one of the few things that does not really bother me at all.
When i'm doing survey runs, i'm committed to just that.
Running back and forth for duplicate surveys never bothered me much at all.
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ApoAlaia✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭It might be immersion breaking for some, but spawning the resources upon consuming the survey would work for me.
'Nom' the survey, nodes pop up. Happy days.0 -
Epona222✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ultimately, I don't think that the problem is collecting on duplicate surveys, but that there are duplicate surveys that need to be collected. This creates an awkwardness right from the start, and the above discussion really emphasizes this.
With that in mind, another thing they could do is go back to preventing us from carrying more than one of each survey. Before you flame me, consider that they could also do a smart RNG that always gave a survey the character did not have. (Heck, it's only back end database time) This way, it would only be an issue when things were so backed up on surveys that the character had them all. I suppose at that point they could just skip awarding the survey.
As a player, I very rarely "run away-run back" when I have a duplicate. I usually go get other surveys and come back later, or just come back next time I am going through surveys. As I said at the top, I see the problem in that I am getting duplicates in the first place.
Re: bolded bit: No, absolutely no. I spend enough time messing about storing maps in different places and then retrieving them, no way would I want them to do the same with surveys.
If anything, I want them to make treasure maps stack.
Only giving a survey that you didn't already have is not a solution at all and causes as many problems as it would solve (I'd still rather store up multiples of one survey than have one of each, also what happens when you have one of each? In addition, you get possibly 7 different surveys per day per character for writs, and they are different anyway - I am sure most people like me then put them in the bank and pick them up on our harvester who has the harvesting CP perks - we don't keep them on the characters that earn them)
Edited by Epona222 on October 4, 2021 10:56AMGM - Ghost Sea Trading Co - NA PC
Epona was a Romano-Celtic goddess dating back to around 1800 to 2000 years before computer games were invented.2 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It might be immersion breaking for some, but spawning the resources upon consuming the survey would work for me.
'Nom' the survey, nodes pop up. Happy days.
There is literally 0 arguement for RP here. The current system respawns a huge deposit of metal ores by simply walking away a minutes distance then coming back.1 -
kojou✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Why were you even expecting changes to this?
I think the intention is that we would do surveys as we get them, not wait until they stack to double digits. This is just a situation were developer intention and player laziness *ahem* efficiency didn't line up, but it is not a bug, nor do I find it particularly inconvenient. If you think about, given their intention it they could have made it so we have to log out and back in again to refresh it, so it could be worse...
Would I complain if they figured out some way for use to do them all at once? No, but there are a lot of worse QoL issues that I would prefer they address first.Playing since beta...2 -
wolfie1.0.✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭TheDarkRuler wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »themaddaedra wrote: »The thing is, there's no real downside to making them reset after the last node is picked up.
Technically, "no downside..." that we know of.
It is possible that there are some significant technical issues about instantly re-spawning surveys we're not aware of. Though, at the same time, that would be significantly more convienent, and even if we had to wait a five or six seconds for the survey nodes to repopulate, it would be less obnoxious than what we have to deal with now.
That said, it is possible that the current system is there to address some technical issue. It requires us to move away from the survey node, but it's not measuring distance, as that is inconsistent. So, it's probably tracking when the player moves across some invisible border on the map. The same behavior is also true for treasure maps, if you pull one from your bank while standing on the site, it won't instantly appear.
It's also possible that the current system relates specifically to the old survey exploit, where someone would walk up to the nodes, bank their survey, and then loot the nodes, pull the survey back out respawning the nodes, and repeat.
To elaborate on what you said...
My thinking is that all of this just takes advantage of systems already in place to put those nodes there, and avoids a "one-off" situation where they create a second system to put those nodes there because the player has multiple surveys.
The nodes only need to be there when the player gets close enough to see them. They don't need to be there just because they entered the zone. The game likely generates the nodes only when they get within a certain range. By running away and returning, the player exits that range and re-enters it, forcing the game to naturally regenerate the survey nodes.
I dont think there is such a thing as "taking advantage" of speeding up the looting process. If you have five Survey writs you are allowed to obtain 5 times the resources from it. So why is speeding it up not an allowed thing? There might be technical things that are not immediately allowing it but such is the thing of software development... you find a way eventually. Right now the system is a cripple, it could be much better.
Honestly, I don't want my surveys to be obtained all at once for several reasons. First, Plentiful Harvest VP triggers on survey nodes. That will likely have to be removed or won't trigger as often. Next, rare resource drops such as nirncrux and aether dust do trigger on survey node interactions. That would be reduced. And lastly, let's be honest here, ZOS has more important things to worry about than this and I don't trust them enough to not screw it up.2 -
wolfie1.0.✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭MashmalloMan wrote: »It might be immersion breaking for some, but spawning the resources upon consuming the survey would work for me.
'Nom' the survey, nodes pop up. Happy days.
There is literally 0 arguement for RP here. The current system respawns a huge deposit of metal ores by simply walking away a minutes distance then coming back.
The walk away spawn zones were added because the nodes used to work where you could just keep going. The problem was that there were a few underlying issues that were used to exploit this and it led to unlimited resources which is why we have what we have.1 -
wolfie1.0.✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ultimately, I don't think that the problem is collecting on duplicate surveys, but that there are duplicate surveys that need to be collected. This creates an awkwardness right from the start, and the above discussion really emphasizes this.
With that in mind, another thing they could do is go back to preventing us from carrying more than one of each survey. Before you flame me, consider that they could also do a smart RNG that always gave a survey the character did not have. (Heck, it's only back end database time) This way, it would only be an issue when things were so backed up on surveys that the character had them all. I suppose at that point they could just skip awarding the survey.
As a player, I very rarely "run away-run back" when I have a duplicate. I usually go get other surveys and come back later, or just come back next time I am going through surveys. As I said at the top, I see the problem in that I am getting duplicates in the first place.
I would gladly accept more duplicates over having to go to to every zone to collect. I don't know about you but it takes many players way less time to walk out of sight of survey nodes and return than it does to transition zones with loading screens. Survey items stacking WAS a QOL thing ZOS added and I won't flame you, but I will fight for it to remain. We need more stuff to stack not less.0 -
Sordidfairytale✭✭✭✭✭I maintain the idea that we should be allowed to trade the survey's in to an NPC for a reduced reward. Convenience VS effort.
The Vegemite Knight0 -
TheDarkRuler✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sordidfairytale wrote: »I maintain the idea that we should be allowed to trade the survey's in to an NPC for a reduced reward. Convenience VS effort.
I would love that feature. Would use it all the time.0
