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State of PC NA Gray Host

LostToTheSea
LostToTheSea
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I'm not sure how many of you remember late last year when NA PVP nearly flat-out died outside primetime. EP had become such an overpopulated faction that outside primetime.. it was not rare at all for Emps and full faction stacks to sit on gates vs 1 bar factions. The majority would likely consider NA PVP dead as of last year....BUT.. the collective community, including guilds, saved NA PVP from hitting the point of no return. EP was stomped by far lesser, but veteran players for weeks on end and it legitimately did keep NA Cyro from going under.

Not even one year later.. We are roughly one campaign away from being in the same exact situation, but with DC as the horde faction. Yet, all I hear talk about from the DC front is how DC is so focused by two factions during primetime. Do you all not realize what this server is like outside primetime? There are central tri-keeps, scrolls, and Emps being crowned with 0 defenders opposing a pop locked faction stack nearly 18 hours a day vs 2 factions that regularly sit on 1-2 bars. EP is a non-existent faction off hours. AD is entirely dependent on guilds dictating that DC blob is not allowed to mindlessly steamroll East and South... or you likely are looking a very normal 64 vs max 10-20 (if this 10-20 is organized it's one thing, but if we are talking off-hours AD pugs then oof).

AD had won the 2 previous campaigns largely (but not solely ofc) on the efforts of multiple guilds splitting the horde and map. You see what this server looks like when these guilds take a break or are far less active? The NA PVP community needs to wake up on this.. If guilds aren't splitting these zergs or a group of S-tier small scalers aren't holding up 40 DC at aleswell farm for hours... (people have to sleep and have a life btw, the small scalers also don't have a performant enough game to keep the zerg split in all hours).

If we note that the current NA cyro pop is roughly 85% wardens.. Are people even trying to PVP on NA side anymore? What is this? People zerging a gradually emptying server down on wardens and max sieging a few players that decide to fight outnumbered by roughly 8:1 or more in most fights.

People need to join EP or something. This whole revolt against EP for zerging down the server.. has turned into the old EP ironically. Guilds largely dictate the environment of pop movements, but at this point.. Even the average player needs to... you know.. consider PVPing on a PVP server and not being one of 64 targets on individual player death recaps. Or we'll have far less people to fight very soon.. regardless of what comes with U31 rulesets.
Edited by LostToTheSea on May 12, 2021 2:23PM
  • Dominion_Nightblade
    Don't worry. EP will come back when procs are enabled lol
  • starlizard70ub17_ESO
    starlizard70ub17_ESO
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    A lot of AD players and guilds just gave up and left Cryodiil. And that trend has been going on for a couple of years now. Of the two PvP guild I was in a year ago, one switched it's focus to a trial and merchant guild. The other disbanded due to lack of players :( . It just wasn't worth it for most AD to go to Cryodiil just to be farmed for AP. So we just stopped going. Now it's up to DC and EP to carry on for the most part. Good luck.
    "We have found a cave, but I don't think there are warm fires and friendly faces inside."
  • Sanctum74
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    It’s pretty bad on PS4 too. I’m on AD and DC just zergs the map with 30+ with little opposition. Most of our crowns went to BR because they don’t want to get zerged down and they got sick of the toxicity directed at them for not helping for the past year.

    Of course people are going to be toxic towards them when our home keeps and scrolls are gone and their zerg just takes the same outpost 5 times in an hour and don’t even keep it for eval. It’s funny to hear zergs complaining about getting zerged, how do they think the 5 people trying to defend home keeps felt getting zerged for the past year lol.

    The few groups we have left just farm bruma, WP, and Bleaks. They don’t even bother to defend them, just an ap farm.

    Yesterday I decided to convert my EP crafter for pvp. It’s the only non AD character I have so for now I plan to use him in BR to say hi to some of my old AD friends. Who knows maybe I’ll stay for good.
  • Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO
    Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO
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    If ZOS gave out faction change tokens or allowed for faction changes / PVP faction queueing separate from your character faction this wouldn't be an issue for the most part.

    Having spent a fair amount on faction changes (as one of the guilds who swapped back when EP was dominating completely). I don't really see the point in giving more to ZOS on further faction changes without any visible development effort or plan in place from them. Even if I'm buying with gold, they still get the crown sale price from somewhere.

    Before we at least had the hope that they were running some tests etc but having seen the outcomes of the tests and subsequent lack of feedback to the community it's not really something many people are prepared to get hyped for. That's only compounded by the complete lack of PVP features in the previous and current year of content. Not to mention the constantly degrading performance.
    @Solar_Breeze
    NA ~ Izanerys: Dracarys (Videos | Dracast Podcast)
    EU ~ Izanagi: Roleplay Circle (AOE Rats/ Zerg Squad / Banana Squad)
  • LostToTheSea
    LostToTheSea
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    If ZOS gave out faction change tokens or allowed for faction changes / PVP faction queueing separate from your character faction this wouldn't be an issue for the most part.

    Having spent a fair amount on faction changes (as one of the guilds who swapped back when EP was dominating completely). I don't really see the point in giving more to ZOS on further faction changes without any visible development effort or plan in place from them. Even if I'm buying with gold, they still get the crown sale price from somewhere.

    Before we at least had the hope that they were running some tests etc but having seen the outcomes of the tests and subsequent lack of feedback to the community it's not really something many people are prepared to get hyped for. That's only compounded by the complete lack of PVP features in the previous and current year of content. Not to mention the constantly degrading performance.

    I hear you on the not much reason to put forth the larger effort, esp from an overall guild perspective. Depsite the overwhelmingly negative back-and-forth I've had with your guild over the years.. this much we can agree on.

    That said, you can flip that same coin and say we've really been at that level of 'what is there really to look forward to' for awhile. I mean cmon Izzy, there's no way you saw those GCD tests and didn't think the data was already compromised before it began. Those parameters were self-defeating, outside maybe 1 or 2 of the weeks.

    Fact is, the PVP community has been keep itself alive just through sheer will at this point.. We all know the rush this game provides when it actually works to a remotely acceptable level. I don't think guilds or the community overall really can hold out for ZoS to offer the olive branch, without diminishing to a point of desolation by that time. The players are either going to right this ship or it will sink even further than it did with old EP. To where I'm quite certain NA PC PVP outside primetime would entirely die.

    The thing is, though I'm not trying to discount people as players, primetime overall is unplayable and not relevant to this conversation. What matters are the majority of hours around it, outside the few hour lull between late night NA and pre-JP/Aus startups. I've talked across several GMs from all regions.. and I don't see anybody going EP.. maybe one JP guild will go AD or not.. but within 40 days this server is going to be dead at this rate.

    Without speaking in particulars... I'm legit confused how 90% of this community could possibly enjoy being the horde in horde mode pvp to such a level that once a few of the enemy are dead it's GG. It might be thrilling for us at times and frustrating at others, but wat? I know we aren't getting 2017 PVP back to where I can port all over the map to numerous fights of any scale, but... I mean... there's a middle ground here we're missing. I hardly see anything outside megasiegezerg vs a few players and some random small scalers/late night guild farming the only poor EP online.
    Edited by LostToTheSea on May 11, 2021 6:12PM
  • Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO
    Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO
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    If ZOS gave out faction change tokens or allowed for faction changes / PVP faction queueing separate from your character faction this wouldn't be an issue for the most part.

    Having spent a fair amount on faction changes (as one of the guilds who swapped back when EP was dominating completely). I don't really see the point in giving more to ZOS on further faction changes without any visible development effort or plan in place from them. Even if I'm buying with gold, they still get the crown sale price from somewhere.

    Before we at least had the hope that they were running some tests etc but having seen the outcomes of the tests and subsequent lack of feedback to the community it's not really something many people are prepared to get hyped for. That's only compounded by the complete lack of PVP features in the previous and current year of content. Not to mention the constantly degrading performance.

    I hear you on the not much reason to put forth the larger effort, esp from an overall guild perspective. Depsite the overwhelmingly negative back-and-forth I've had with your guild over the years.. this much we can agree on.

    That said, you can flip that same coin and say we've really been at that level of 'what is there really to look forward to' for awhile. I mean cmon Izzy, there's no way you saw those GCD tests and didn't think the data was already compromised before it began. Those parameters were self-defeating, outside maybe 1 or 2 of the weeks.

    Fact is, the PVP community has been keep itself alive just through sheer will at this point.. We all know the rush this game provides when it actually works to a remotely acceptable level. I don't think guilds or the community overall really can hold out for ZoS to offer the olive branch, without diminishing to a point of desolation by that time. The players are either going to right this ship or it will sink even further than it did with old EP. To where I'm quite certain NA PC PVP outside primetime would entirely die.

    The thing is, though I'm not trying to discount people as players, primetime overall is unplayable and not relevant to this conversation. What matters are the majority of hours around it, outside the few hour lull between late night NA and pre-JP/Aus startups. I've talked across several GMs from all regions.. and I don't see anybody going EP.. maybe one JP guild will go AD or not.. but within 40 days this server is going to be dead at this rate.

    Without speaking in particulars... I'm legit confused how 90% of this community could possibly enjoy being the horde in horde mode pvp to such a level that once a few of the enemy are dead it's GG. It might be thrilling for us at times and frustrating at others, but wat? I know we aren't getting 2017 PVP back to where I can port all over the map to numerous fights of any scale, but... I mean... there's a middle ground here we're missing. I hardly see anything outside megasiegezerg vs a few players and some random small scalers/late night guild farming the only poor EP online.

    I'm not really sure what guild/group you play with so I'm sorry that you consider our interactions as negative, I feel like as long as a discussion is civil it can generally be positive regardless of whether either side changes their opinion.

    Whilst I thought certain tests unlikely to be useful, in terms of an actual 'solution' and still question some of the subsequent decisions the premise of running tests on the live servers was something I agreed with. It seemed at the time that ZOS were making some effort to actually have some dialog with the community and responding fairly quickly with further information etc.

    After the initial testing (which went on for far too long - I don't understand at all why they had to be 1 week tests when the same lag was felt on days 1&2 as 6&7). I was still fairly hopeful for some actually useful post technical post back from either the dev's or a more community based post with chances to respond and give feedback. This was evidently not what we got.

    A few things to note if you're asking for my opinion on this - 1) I only play during primetime 3 nights per week so it doesn't really affect me either way unless the map during those times that I play is too one-sided on the faction that I play on. 2) We were planning to swap to DC before the timeframe of the tests were announced and actually delayed by 1 more campaign because we wanted to have access to more characters during the tests. If you remember the first week of the test the map was almost entirely EP 90% of the day which made us confirm the switch across to DC.

    This will always be a problem for as long as the scoring rewards either faction for off hours play at a greater rate than primetime play (population based scoring ticks) but not only that - there needs to be more ways for underpopulated factions to play without being gated / make no progress.
    Edit - Another important thing would be variety in PVP play. Currently PVP is very stale in terms of the general reward structure. Zerg keeps for AP, Play on winning faction for the tiny amount of increased reward. (both can be achieved by being on the 'right' faction for that campaign). If there was more nuance. For example Daily score gain rewards in combination with the population based scoring. along with Increased tiers of rewards with token based reward system. This would allow underdog factions to make an effort to win on X night to gain better rewards. (all of which we were asking for about 3 or 4 years ago now)
    Edited by Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO on May 11, 2021 6:40PM
    @Solar_Breeze
    NA ~ Izanerys: Dracarys (Videos | Dracast Podcast)
    EU ~ Izanagi: Roleplay Circle (AOE Rats/ Zerg Squad / Banana Squad)
  • adirondack
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    Scoring based on faction population is the only logical method - it should have been that way at launch. It isn't now, and I don't see ZOS giving a rat's backside about PvP anyway (despite their relatively pointless 'tests') so I hold no hope for any meaningful changes now.

    If the PvP rewards were worth "something" I'd be more inclined to care about the campaign score. But they have been worthless for so long many people just decon everything. I'd love to see master's weapons again for the top 2% of the winning faction, like it used to be. I have so much gold and purple crap jewelry that I just decon for mats at the end of every campaign.

    Population balancing: I believe if any faction has the population to reliably take objectives every day, more power to them. Congrats for attracting all the players. Go forth and overwhelm the competition. Not a matter of fairness - but when you do, be aware you'll eventually run out of things to overwhelm, and that's not much fun for anyone.

    And it always makes me laugh when the overpopulated faction (whoever it is) cries about be "focused" by the other two. Well, DUH! Did you expect them to not do so? Don't act so shocked - it is the way it is and will remain so. If you take all the objectives during the day, you should fully expect to be double teamed when the other factions get sufficient numbers to fight back.

    Unless they decide it is no longer fun to fight you.
    Edited by adirondack on May 11, 2021 9:02PM
    Ray
  • ResidentContrarian
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    This is the ultimate result of faction locks. Always has been, always will be. There was a time before One Tamriel in the main campaign where only 7 EP had to defend the map for 8 hours vs. 200 DC and they took the scrolls and every keep + farmed the gates every night in PC NA. That was a "locked" campaign and still more toxic than any other campaign duration I have ever seen in this game's history.

    But...
    Why wouldn't or shouldn't players all move to the winning side?
    Why shouldn't players stack and farm lesser # of opponents?
    Because you or someone else thinks it will kill the campaign?
    So what?

    The reason why this cycle has appeared again and again is because faction locks are a bad idea. They don't prevent trolling and they don't really promote loyalty, in fact I've seen Cyrodiil at its most toxic state with the faction locks.

    Now, here comes the argument: "but locked factions are more popular". Again, not true, they are simply on the top of the list and where most players will be at any given moment because so.

    Then compound terrible class balance, especially in noProc, and the reason why this is happening is simple. Compare the # of warden and necros in EP and AD at any given moment to the ones in DC for example.

    DC has two ball groups of nothing but necros, wardens, and sorcs that simply all spam subterranean assault when keep doors come down, stack endless fury on anyone defending the keep, and nerco menders negate all damage you do to them (absolutely no real counter to this damage in no proc unless you are a -- sorc, warden, or necro).

    When something is absolute before the encounter even happens, then why bother playing?

    The only reason the score had been close in recent campaigns was because cross faction forces that wanted a campaign that was close kept it close. They logged when the score was too wide, they didn't push for emp/scrolls all the time, they didn't all stack one alliance. Cross faction forces: the thing that the campaign attempted to eliminate ironically keeps it balanced.

    Only issues is that this cycle they aren't around. They aren't around because no-proc isn't exactly fun unless you are playing three classes. They aren't around because the game in its no-proc state is balanced even worse than its proc state. Seen Deltia, Fengrush, et. al. much in Cyro this campaign cycle? There is a reason why you haven't.

    I've said it before, but when balance is bad in the game - no matter where it is - players will simply not play if they feel that what they do doesn't matter and they can spend their time better elsewhere.

    What's funny is that, had the campaign been unlocked, anyone that disagreed with DC could have swapped sides and fought the DC that were stacking so hard. Everyone knows this exact thing would have happened, which is why when you bring this up a load of lock supporters will pretend its not true. Why not put it to the test then?

    Yet, that can't happen anymore in a locked campaign because players complained on the forums, and I wonder who and what type of players the restriction of that benefits -- it surely can't be anyone that wanted a competitive campaign.
  • Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO
    Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO
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    Whilst I don't agree with total faction locks on the one campaign that they are enforced on. (I would rather see rewards lock with players free to switch and earn AP on other factions - just no tiers/scoreboard placement).

    If faction locks were to blame for this issue you wouldn't see this problem on unlocked highly populated servers - e.g. EU no-CP. In general this is a playerbase/game design issue not faction locks imo.
    @Solar_Breeze
    NA ~ Izanerys: Dracarys (Videos | Dracast Podcast)
    EU ~ Izanagi: Roleplay Circle (AOE Rats/ Zerg Squad / Banana Squad)
  • LostToTheSea
    LostToTheSea
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    The only reason the score had been close in recent campaigns was because cross faction forces that wanted a campaign that was close kept it close. They logged when the score was too wide, they didn't push for emp/scrolls all the time, they didn't all stack one alliance. Cross faction forces: the thing that the campaign attempted to eliminate ironically keeps it balanced.

    I lead a guild in the field on GH and the only cross-faction forces I'm aware of consisted of ~5 players. They were hardly ever on. Unless there was some magical cross-faction guild 20 hours a day fighting an additional pop locked faction that I'm unaware of, then this is entirely false. I was around too much the past 4 campaigns to not make comment on this. There were 3 organized guilds running quite actively in various timeslots (much of the time it was just 1 or 2 guilds on, but that's how it is). I'll note these guilds rarely fought alongside one another unless it was down to this or gated. Not to mention the not as active regular AD guilds.. I'm quite confident if those guilds had not put forth the effort they did, then PC NA Gray Host would already by pop lock vs 1 bar in nearly all hours outside primetime.

    I might sound like I'm boasting, but I'm not. This is simply the reality on NA right now. If these guilds take a break or scale back, then look at this server. 1 WAY overpop'd faction, 1 fluctuating low-medium pop, and a dead faction. Seem familiar to last year? I think my guess of ~40 days of the NA server going under has plenty of grounding when we look back.

    People are here to PVP? Prove it.
    Edited by LostToTheSea on May 12, 2021 11:42AM
  • techyeshic
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    I like the faction lock. Even though initially I wasn't so sure and thought they should incentivize players to go to the "weaker" faction and leave your characters queue whatever faction they want; I've seen what Blackreach looks like with wild flips of colors covering the map and lopsided scores. Grant it; if it was pop locked, it would be harder to switch, but even Gray Host is not locked all day.

    It was indeed great when EP first came to us on DC, but after DC won a couple; you could see us suddenly have a queue that we really never have. You always are going to have players chase to be on the winning side. AD won a couple and our queues in primetiem DC are down slightly so maybe they picked up some dead weight; but the campaigns are frustratingly won and lost in off hours
    Edited by techyeshic on May 12, 2021 2:11PM
  • ResidentContrarian
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    The only reason the score had been close in recent campaigns was because cross faction forces that wanted a campaign that was close kept it close. They logged when the score was too wide, they didn't push for emp/scrolls all the time, they didn't all stack one alliance. Cross faction forces: the thing that the campaign attempted to eliminate ironically keeps it balanced.

    I lead a guild in the field on GH and the only cross-faction forces I'm aware of consisted of ~5 players. They were hardly ever on. Unless there was some magical cross-faction guild 20 hours a day fighting an additional pop locked faction that I'm unaware of, then this is entirely false. I was around too much the past 4 campaigns to not make comment on this. There were 3 organized guilds running quite actively in various timeslots (much of the time it was just 1 or 2 guilds on, but that's how it is). I'll note these guilds rarely fought alongside one another unless it was down to this or gated. Not to mention the not as active regular AD guilds.. I'm quite confident if those guilds had not put forth the effort they did, then PC NA Gray Host would already by pop lock vs 1 bar in nearly all hours outside primetime.

    I might sound like I'm boasting, but I'm not. This is simply the reality on NA right now. If these guilds take a break or scale back, then look at this server. 1 WAY overpop'd faction, 1 fluctuating low-medium pop, and a dead faction. Seem familiar to last year? I think my guess of ~40 days of the NA server going under has plenty of grounding when we look back.

    People are here to PVP? Prove it.

    Naming is not allowed on the forums ;) And it would be naming and shaming because it would draw the ire of a bunch of players that don't like anyone playing in more than one faction despite lock. In fact, some players turn rabid and will autoblock them.

    If you ever go to DC or EP, just ask there and you will find out yourself if its true or not. That's where there are a large amount of players with cross-characters in the first place. Also ask them how they feel about AD's victory and posturing in the last campaigns when you find these multifaction players.

    If you really have been here you should have noticed by now that whenever a faction brags too much about victory, punishment with gating is always doled out and the same exact toxic methods used to win are applied to them every time.

    That is not to say that it is all cross-faction determining score, but a significant part of that score is, in fact rigged.

    AD was doomed to #3 when the campaign started thanks to their previous actions and some players there that talk too much. Make sure you thank them properly!
  • Vizirith
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    People would rather zerg than fight. If you watch the map during off hours, the most dominant faction by far will rarely drop in pop. People can barely take a resource without being zerged down. So what do they do? Leave. The people that zerged them down? Don't.
  • Nevidyra
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    AD's had lowpop for almost 10 hours now. It's great for farming DC, but annoying when they bring 30 because they can't kill your smallscale with 15.
    -PC/NA/AD-
    CP 1k+

    Immortal Redeemer [✅]
    Tick-Tock Tormentor [✅]
    Gryphon Heart [✅]
    Godslayer [WIP]
    Dawnbringer [N/A]

  • WaltherCarraway
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    “Smallscale”
    Back from my last hiatus. 2021 a new start.
  • ResidentContrarian
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    “Smallscale”

    That is what you call a faction stack when they fail to win vs. a smaller number of players. Technically, it is smallscale for someone...
  • Dominion_Nightblade
    I love getting zerged down hard by 50+ DC in PCNA US late night, especially when I'm just trying to take an AD home keep. It's also nice to go take keeps from the maybe 5 reds online at that time too. lol

    EP zerglord, if you are reading this, please come back to PCNA late night. EP needs more people to balance out that timeslot! Plus we miss fighting you buddy..
  • Nevidyra
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    “Smallscale”

    That is what you call a faction stack when they fail to win vs. a smaller number of players. Technically, it is smallscale for someone...

    I suppose 4 players looking for good fights could be considered a faction stack by your standards, given there's maybe only five or six AD in total online against around 50 DC.
    Edited by Nevidyra on May 20, 2021 2:54AM
    -PC/NA/AD-
    CP 1k+

    Immortal Redeemer [✅]
    Tick-Tock Tormentor [✅]
    Gryphon Heart [✅]
    Godslayer [WIP]
    Dawnbringer [N/A]

  • Selminus
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    Every faction says all of the same things about the other two factions every day. It's so obvious. You got guys in here saying people need to join EP when EP was the first to lock all weekend. lol. Try playing AD any time before 5pm EST and get back to us. It's a constantly hopeless scenario between the time MOD logs off and primetimers log in. The solution to this is a sliding pop lock. The cap should fluctuate based on whatever internal math is available.
    Edited by Selminus on May 24, 2021 2:25PM
  • Armethius
    Armethius
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    maths? nah, too high level for ZOS
  • Armethius
    Armethius
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    let's stick with low pop bonuses of arbitrary amounts
  • LightYagami
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    vamp_emily wrote: »
    What is funny about EP is they do good when AD/DC are not playing, but since the event this so called EP Army/ Faction stackers have been getting destroyed. They are not trained to fight equal numbers or 2 factions attacking them at once.

    Not only EP, this is the problem if a faction or a guild focuses too much on simply out-numbering enemies.

    If players get used to situations like 40 v 10, they may misunderstand strengths and weaknesses of themselves. When their ball group needs to be split, they may not know what to do.
    No improvement on Cyrodill servers -> no ESO plus renewal.
  • Jaimeh
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    Greyhost seems emptier than usual, at least on the DC side of things. Constant underpop, but lag is still present, and most people are disheartened and fed up. Players came in, saw how boring it was and left. Kinda sad state of affairs, especially for a weekend, hopefully it will pick up.
  • darvaria
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    vamp_emily wrote: »
    What is funny about EP is they do good when AD/DC are not playing, but since the event this so called EP Army/ Faction stackers have been getting destroyed. They are not trained to fight equal numbers or 2 factions attacking them at once.

    You are the one I see getting destroyed. I've never seen you not killed in a fight tbh.
  • Reverb
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    All I have to say about Gray Host is this - what in the flaming hell was going on at Alessia yesterday?! The entire keep was filled with quicksand or flypaper or something. Dozens of people from all three factions with a 90% snare or completely rooted.

    In all my years of playing ESO I’ve never experienced anything like it. That’s not exaggeration, that’s the buggiest fight I’ve been a part of in this game.
    Edited by Reverb on August 17, 2021 12:13AM
    Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. ~Friedrich Nietzsche
  • ResidentContrarian
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    Nevidyra wrote: »
    “Smallscale”

    That is what you call a faction stack when they fail to win vs. a smaller number of players. Technically, it is smallscale for someone...

    I suppose 4 players looking for good fights could be considered a faction stack by your standards, given there's maybe only five or six AD in total online against around 50 DC.

    The forums always are contrary to reality. Get agrees, get awesomes, still won't change reality.
    Reverb wrote: »
    All I have to say about Gray Host is this - what in the flaming hell was going on at Alessia yesterday?! The entire keep was filled with quicksand or flypaper or something. Dozens of people from all three factions with a 90% snare or completely rooted.

    In all my years of playing ESO I’ve never experienced anything like it. That’s not exaggeration, that’s the buggiest fight I’ve been a part of in this game.

    Blame certain ball groups that cannot be named for using "methods" that result in that kind of situation even on empty servers around them. In time, you will know what groups I mean; there are two on PC NA that always manage to have that situation happen around them even if they happen to log in with a 2-bar server and smaller conflict.

    NOTE: It's the same two you can't break free around ;)
    Edited by ResidentContrarian on August 17, 2021 8:13AM
  • Didact805
    Didact805
    ✭✭
    Jaimeh wrote: »
    Greyhost seems emptier than usual, at least on the DC side of things. Constant underpop, but lag is still present, and most people are disheartened and fed up. Players came in, saw how boring it was and left. Kinda sad state of affairs, especially for a weekend, hopefully it will pick up.

    I came to GH in the now gone by camp and found the lag/complaints re- current meta much worse than BR. Figured I'd find some fights but the *yanking* was much worse.. so I logged, lol.
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