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Stun Mechanics & PvP
TwiceBornStar
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I think it would be a blast to have at least one PvP server that has stun/immobilization mechanics disabled, just like we have servers with CP disabled. I think combat would be more about positioning, dodging, blocking and using offensive/defensive skills that way. No offense, but I think PvP is starting to become a bit of a bore. Everybody is using the same skills, same sets and same rotations over and over, with few exceptions. I think a server without stun/immobilization mechanics would drastically alter play style and allow people the freedom to consider alternative builds and tactics.
Opinions?
Opinions?
5
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Idinuse✭✭✭✭✭
✭TwiceBornStar wrote: »I think it would be a blast to have at least one PvP server that has stun/immobilization mechanics disabled, just like we have servers with CP disabled. I think combat would be more about positioning, dodging, blocking and using offensive/defensive skills that way. No offense, but I think PvP is starting to become a bit of a bore. Everybody is using the same skills, same sets and same rotations over and over, with few exceptions. I think a server without stun/immobilization mechanics would drastically alter play style and allow people the freedom to consider alternative builds and tactics.
Opinions?
Stun is the ultimate I win - easy mode button in PvP. It's zero skills to perma stun a player and then face roll. Especially fantastic play at times, when imov pots don't even seem to work.Sed ut perspiciatis unde omnis iste natus error sit voluptatem accusantium dolorem que laudantium, totam rem aperiam, eaque ipsa quae ab illo inventore veritatis et quasi architecto beatae vitae dicta sunt explicabo. Nemo enim ipsam voluptatem quia voluptas sit aspernatur aut odit aut fugit, sed quia consequuntur magni dolores eos qui ratione voluptatem sequi nesciunt. Neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non numquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem. Ut enim ad minima veniam, quis nostrum exercitationem ullam corporis suscipit laboriosam, nisi ut aliquid ex ea commodi consequatur? Quis autem vel eum iure reprehenderit qui in ea voluptate velit esse quam nihil molestiae consequatur, vel illum qui dolorem eum fugiat quo voluptas nulla pariatur?6 -
Sheuib✭✭✭✭About half of the pvpers would become unkillable without stuns and immobilizers. People are already using positioning, dodging, and blocking to avoid damage.8 -
moleculardrugs✭✭✭✭TwiceBornStar wrote: »I think it would be a blast to have at least one PvP server that has stun/immobilization mechanics disabled, just like we have servers with CP disabled. I think combat would be more about positioning, dodging, blocking and using offensive/defensive skills that way. No offense, but I think PvP is starting to become a bit of a bore. Everybody is using the same skills, same sets and same rotations over and over, with few exceptions. I think a server without stun/immobilization mechanics would drastically alter play style and allow people the freedom to consider alternative builds and tactics.
Opinions?
Stun is the ultimate I win - easy mode button in PvP. It's zero skills to perma stun a player and then face roll. Especially fantastic play at times, when imov pots don't even seem to work.
I would like to be able to get shot at by a spell, hide behind a wall as it was heading towards me, and the spell not hitting me, instead of having to dodge roll the spell. It sort of takes away the positioning aspects of combat for objects in the game to not have more of an effect on combat (imo).1 -
Asardes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Me every time Dark Convergence procs in BGs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4Mc-NYPHaQ Beta tester since February 2014, played ESO-TU October 2015 - August 2022, currently on an extended break
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ResidentContrarian✭✭✭✭✭If they did that, there would be zero consequence to building for speed.
Considering you can already run out of the range of skills before they damage you, then the only thing that would happen is that the game would move towards speed + ranged builds with procs.
In other words, it would just be another variation of a shooter game.
Well it already kinda is...5 -
TwiceBornStar✭✭✭✭About half of the pvpers would become unkillable without stuns and immobilizers. People are already using positioning, dodging, and blocking to avoid damage.
You really think so? I'd be willing to bet that if no one has to worry about stuns and immobilizations, that pretty much leaves more room for everyone to use more offensive skills which are currently less used or not at all by most of the player base, because right now it's all about stuns and burst/executes.
You'd have to think more along the lines of status effects, apply more bleeds, use different kinds of poisons, burns, etc. What I'm proposing here doesn't mean things like chilled, concussed or off-balance are out of the window, and people would still get the burst from attacks from stealth. Just not the stun. I think the longer a fight lasts between people, the longer people have the time to apply all these other funny things that they normally don't do. I think if there's more room to do those things, people will be able to build more damage over time, making certain builds which are now considered almost unkillable, very killable.
I'm not talking about banning the stun mechanic from PvP altogether. Just one server where you can fight each other without. I *do* think it would make a huge difference, and would probably make for interesting game play.1 -
TwiceBornStar✭✭✭✭ResidentContrarian wrote: »If they did that, there would be zero consequence to building for speed.
Considering you can already run out of the range of skills before they damage you, then the only thing that would happen is that the game would move towards speed + ranged builds with procs.
In other words, it would just be another variation of a shooter game.
Well it already kinda is...
Roll Dodge? Reflective shield? Defensive stance? Shadowy Disguise? There are a number of sets and abilities which can easily avoid/reflect projectiles, so I doubt everyone would go for a ranged character in the above scenario, simply because people will be able to respond appropriately. I think it's nice to be able to respond in combat, at all times. I see a lot of people just walking around in smaller or larger groups, just spamming whatever stun available to them. I'm just wondering if PvP without these mechanics would be a tad more interesting.1 -
xDeusEJRx✭✭✭✭✭
✭Not in favor of it. Taking away stuns/immobilizations would really gimp a lot of abilities like hell. Ruining build diversity severely. There's an issue already of classes having useless abilities in PVP and removing stuns/immobilizations would just make most classes worse and steepen the issue of lack of diversity in practical abilities.
If we assume "stuns/immobilizations" also includes snares (I assume it does because anti-cc abilities remove snares too), half of the templar class tool kit would severely get gimped since they have tons of abilities with snares as secondary effects. Jabs/Puncturing, eclipse, reflective light, javelin. toppling charge even their Nova ultimate's synergy effect would get nuked too.
Dragonknights would be effected too, but not to such an insane degree though since their abilities snares come from their passives rather than the secondary effects of their abilities. Though their Warmth passive would be completely useless here. And fossilize and chains would be useless skills.
Lots of other abilities would lose usefulness as their secondary effects would be gutted. To name a few: bombard, silver leash, frost version of destructive clench, wall of frost, barbed trap, turn evil. And those are just a few I named.
It would honestly kill build diversity in a way never seen before, because 90% of abilities would lose any relevant usefulness.
On top of that it would probably become meta to just build speedy with full damage, run swift jewelry for crazy movement speed and running movement speed buffs like wild hunt and then go full glass cannon and burn most people while not being able to be caught by anyone. I can't possibly see something like that being something the PVP community would enjoy. Back when evasion still gave you dodge chance people complained they could never hit stamina users, we'd really just be going back to that era of not being able to hit most people in PVPSolo PvP'er PS5 NA player
90% of my body is made of Magblade3 -
Sluggy✭✭✭✭✭moleculardrugs wrote: »I would like to be able to get shot at by a spell, hide behind a wall as it was heading towards me, and the spell not hitting me, instead of having to dodge roll the spell. It sort of takes away the positioning aspects of combat for objects in the game to not have more of an effect on combat (imo).
This is a consequence of target-based combat and lag. Effectively, they can't hit you if the didn't target you. And if they did target you the server already confirmed that line-of-sight was achieved at the time of the cast so it's simply going to allow the hit to happen (unless dodged or blocked). At that point the fact that it bends around corners or passes through walls is just due to the visuals having to compensate for both latency and changing end-target positions.
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Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭No.
I agree. There is already too much "customization" of servers as it is. If Zenimax created a server for every request then we would have dozens of unpopulated servers.
Faction lock, CP, Proc, Stun.
Faction Lock, CP, Proc, no stun
Faction lock, CP, No proc, stun
Faction lock, CP, No proc, no stun.
Faction lock, no CP, Proc, Stun
Faction lock, no CP, proc, no stun.
I am not even halfway through this list but I think we can see where it could go.6 -
relentless_turnip✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Stuns are the only way to kill even slightly competent players. Without timing your stun you will fail to burst most players. Not to mention have you considered how boring it would be? Especially with healing and mitigation as high and as accessible as it is. You would have to adjust basically everything to even make it even a consideration.
What ZOS need to do is fix their game and make break free work, make cc immunity work etc...Edited by relentless_turnip on September 9, 2021 7:09AM6 -
moo_2021✭✭✭✭relentless_turnip wrote: »What ZOS need to do is fix their game and make break free work, make cc immunity work etc...
People have mentioned that before calculation was moved to server, break-free always worked.
What about automatic break free by the server or simply no stun/fear for N seconds - 1 second is all you get and immediately followed by immunity in the same action, so it cannot possibly fail and no chance getting double CC'edEdited by moo_2021 on September 9, 2021 9:00AM1 -
moo_2021✭✭✭✭About half of the pvpers would become unkillable without stuns and immobilizers. People are already using positioning, dodging, and blocking to avoid damage.
only when you see it coming or have the alert addon - even so most can't keep dodging while attacker can just retry again and again.
did it myself this evening: charge stun, 2 spammable 1 execute, done. So smooth I can't believe it! (as usual break-free failed) And I wasn't wearing proc sets.
Or, instead of stun/fear, the existing skills could reduce both healing and resistance progressively: 40k => 20k, 15k => 10k, etc.0 -
Amerises✭✭✭✭TwiceBornStar wrote: »I think it would be a blast to have at least one PvP server that has stun/immobilization mechanics disabled, just like we have servers with CP disabled. I think combat would be more about positioning, dodging, blocking and using offensive/defensive skills that way. No offense, but I think PvP is starting to become a bit of a bore. Everybody is using the same skills, same sets and same rotations over and over, with few exceptions. I think a server without stun/immobilization mechanics would drastically alter play style and allow people the freedom to consider alternative builds and tactics.
Opinions?
I would disagree on there not being much build diversity. I asked about a magplar and a stamplar and got a variety of different opinions. From mundus, to stats, to sets, to skills, to weapons, to armor traits. I would be very surprised to see someone with my exact build or rotation.
I can understand from the outside it might look every templar is: "run around with major expedition, and rally, jump, stun, jabs to death," but I'll tell you, if you know the classes well enough, you can see different skills being used (I've seen almost 20 different skills in rotation with a 2h frontbarred).
I couldn't tell the difference between a stamsorc and a magsorc, and all I see is damage shield, teleport, and a burst of damage (consequently, if I survive their burst I need to be ready to jump after their teleport, and then I'll prolly have them). I've never played a sorc. But I'm going to assume their build diversity is about as much as templar, DK, and NB (the classes I do play).Edited by Amerises on September 9, 2021 10:38PM1 -
JayKwellen✭✭✭✭✭TwiceBornStar wrote: »
Yes.
If I couldn't be immobilized you'd never catch me. I could kite 20 people around a tower forever and you'd have no hope of ever stopping me.
And how would you kill me anyway? Without stuns I'll just block every leap, meteor, spectral bow, grav crush, incap, and anything else that comes at me. I'd have plenty of stam for it too, as I wouldn't have to break free or roll roots anymore.
It would be awful. If you think 10 dudes chasing one guy around a tree is bad now, imagine if you had no way to reliably burst or slow them down. Think about how hard it is to kill people who run immoves as their main potion. Now imagine that was everybody, all the time, with no downside or opportunity cost.
Trust me, this isn't something you want.Xbox NA - JaeKwellen
AD PvP
Trying to main a magcro. This is awful.4 -
etchedpixels✭✭✭✭✭
✭JayKwellen wrote: »[
It would be awful. If you think 10 dudes chasing one guy around a tree is bad now, imagine if you had no way to reliably burst or slow them down. Think about how hard it is to kill people who run immoves as their main potion. Now imagine that was everybody, all the time, with no downside or opportunity cost.
Trust me, this isn't something you want.
Not without rebalancing the rest of the PVP game quite dramatically so that people are much easier to kill - Minecraft works just fine without stun mechanics
Too many toons not enough time1 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭TwiceBornStar wrote: »I think it would be a blast to have at least one PvP server that has stun/immobilization mechanics disabled, just like we have servers with CP disabled. I think combat would be more about positioning, dodging, blocking and using offensive/defensive skills that way. No offense, but I think PvP is starting to become a bit of a bore. Everybody is using the same skills, same sets and same rotations over and over, with few exceptions. I think a server without stun/immobilization mechanics would drastically alter play style and allow people the freedom to consider alternative builds and tactics.
Opinions?
I would suggest an immunie duration increase from 7 to 10 secs would be nice instead of removing the stun. If you don't stun in PvP, you probably wouldn't be able to kill people as effective, because block and dodge roll exist. Unless block and dodge roll have cooldown like stuns and immoblization, stun should not be removed ever.1 -
neferpitou73✭✭✭✭✭
✭universal_wrath wrote: »TwiceBornStar wrote: »I think it would be a blast to have at least one PvP server that has stun/immobilization mechanics disabled, just like we have servers with CP disabled. I think combat would be more about positioning, dodging, blocking and using offensive/defensive skills that way. No offense, but I think PvP is starting to become a bit of a bore. Everybody is using the same skills, same sets and same rotations over and over, with few exceptions. I think a server without stun/immobilization mechanics would drastically alter play style and allow people the freedom to consider alternative builds and tactics.
Opinions?
I would suggest an immunie duration increase from 7 to 10 secs would be nice instead of removing the stun. If you don't stun in PvP, you probably wouldn't be able to kill people as effective, because block and dodge roll exist. Unless block and dodge roll have cooldown like stuns and immoblization, stun should not be removed ever.
I'd suggest having CC immunity work the way it's supposed to instead of the laggy mess it is now
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moo_2021✭✭✭✭universal_wrath wrote: »Unless block and dodge roll have cooldown like stuns and immoblization, stun should not be removed ever.
dodge has cooldown - or is it irrelevant?
i have always wondered why block works against any direction. it should be 160 degrees like some skills.1 -
spacefracking✭✭✭✭There is a CC immunity period, an immobilize immunity period, dodge roll escalating costs, and resource management/regen. There is no snare immunity period.
It's a part of combat, and crucial to the idea of both sustain, and having something in the way of defenses. Builds are about balancing defenses, sustain, and offense.
I don't see the problem here, though, dark convergence does a very poor job of interacting with the above.
It's a check on things like, ranged glass cannons. Immovability potions last 10.7s, more with potion glyphs, immov poisons last 4.4 seconds. Each have drawbacks.1 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭i agree
both Stuns and immobilizations should never have been put in eso.
they need removed.1 -
MEBengalsFan2001✭✭✭✭✭I like games where you can do counters. And the person that does a counter gains an immunity to stuns, etc.. in another MMO I played while playing against 2-3 other player I was able to keep myself fully protect from CC abilities because I was able to keep countering the other players attacks providing me immunity from CC effects. So, they couldn't stun, knock me over, etc.. it was fun and I was able to constantly do that to them. Also, combat wasn't like here where a few hits and you die most of the time. It took 10+ hits to kill someone when they didn't heal. So with healing it took even longer to kill someone. I loved PVP in that game before the devs started to tweak things and it ruined it. For instance they had PVP only gear and I loved that. Than PVE gear could be used in PVP, YUCK.
PVP right now isn't bad, a few tweaks to gear and how CC abilities work and I think PVP would be a lot better.0
