Whirlwind Morph?

Sorpaijen_ESO · April 2014

So Whirlwind has been available for Morph for a while now but I keep picking other skills instead, because I cannot make up my mind which Morph to pick and of course once chosen I'm stuck with it until a costly respec.

So, Steel Tornado morph increases range from 5m to 11m, if I recall correctly. This seemed less useful than the other morph for the simple reason that if I were going to USE Whirlwind at all, it would be when foes were clustered around me, not scattered around the area.

If there is a foe that's 6 - 11 meters away from me, then chances are he's an archer or a caster of some kind and I should move to HIM and let the other folk who WERE near me come along for the ride so we're all within 5 meters of the immobile caster.

The other morph returns stamina over time with more stamina returned per extra foe hit. At first glance, this also seemed rather weak. I think it was 3 stamina every two seconds for 10 seconds... so after 10 seconds I'd regain 15 stamina but the attack costs like 114 or 140 stamina to use... the stamina return increases 50% per additional foe hit, so if there were three foes, that would be +100% stamina or 6 stamina every 2 seconds for 10 seconds or 30 stamina ---- again, not a lot compared to the cost of throwing it.

If there were eleven foes hit (one main and ten extra for +500% stamina return) then I would get 18 stamina per 2 seconds for 10 seconds, so after 10 seconds I'd have recovered 90 stamina. STILL not enough to throw it again, and that's after TEN seconds after hitting ELEVEN foes.

I'm thinking that if there are eleven foes within 5 meters of me I'm not going to be living long enough to even get back that measly 90 stamina...

Now, granted, I may have OTHER stamina-return methods (there's a medium armor passive that gives me +30% stamina return after going invis for 2.5 seconds --- still not much time for the stamina-returning Whirlwind to give me much back). But it still FEELS like this is not really doing much for me. I had this image that this morph would let me chain-cast Whirlwind more frequently than otherwise...

But unless the math is wrong somewhere, I'd be better off using Steel Tornado so that I could hit a larger area, maybe tagging archers and casters who were spread out a bit more, saving me from running around so much.

Anyone have any experiences with the two morphs, to offer some help deciding?

Thanks!

Niminion · April 2014

FYI the stamina scales up, at 46 mine returns 10, think it goes up to 20 at vr10?

One warning though on whirlwind, the stamina regen is even worse than you are thinking. If you are spamming it and something dies/moves out of range it is refreshed at a lower rate.

What usually ends up happening for me is I get 4x regen at 1 maybe 2 ticks then two squishy die fast and the regen goes down, but I was spamming it and another guy goes down and now its back to just 1x regen. So I usually leave a fight with only 1x regen ticking. Considering you want to use this on low health guys it and not as an opener this makes the skill just feel awkward.

I plan on re-morphing this when I eventually respec. Being able to aoe from a safer distance seems much better than the meager regen.

Sorpaijen_ESO · April 2014

Thanks for the insight! Looks like Steel Tornado may be the winner of the next skill point I get.

huntgod_ESO · April 2014

Don't think of it as a stamina return, think of it as a reducer, it effectively reduces the stam cost, and that reduction goes up depending on how many people you hit. Still makes it better than extended range.

In my experience VR1, so far, mobs are either on top of you, or they are 15-20m away shooting you.

braddsloanb14_ESO · April 2014

making me sign in for this >.>
you are forgetting the most important part of steel tornado; the damage increase think of it as an aoe execute

Hodorius · April 2014

In my opinion the tornado wins.

That stamina reduction/gain is so small you wont feel it while spamming.
As I always have ahealer with me for aoe-spamming he often gets aggro and the mobs run "away" => you wont have to move that much.

Obscure · April 2014

Whirlwind is not a spam skill, don't do that, it's a waste of stamina. Instead use it once in an opener to trigger regen then use Ember Explosion every 4 seconds. The two skills have the same base damage, but Ember is cheaper to use and inflicts a 40% miss chance. Stack that up with full medium Elude and you have a 62% chance to avoid damage (yes it absolutely undoubtedly stacks), to further conserve stamina you'd be otherwise using to block. For Templar use it with Blinding Flashes, as a Nightblade use it with Double Take, and as a Dragonknight use it with Cinder Storm.

Use any other AoE damage ability to chop down enemy health bars around you and when they get to about 25% then smack them with an AoE immobilize/disorient/stun to stack the Ruffian bonus with Whirling Blades for a solid execute combo. As a Dragonknight using this strategy I've slaughtered 10 melee enemies at once in very little time doing exactly that. There's no other AoE execute like Whirlwind, and if you use it properly in your build you will cut through PvE mobs like butter.

Sorpaijen_ESO · April 2014

Good thing I haven't placed this skill point yet, as there appears to be several divergent opinions on the matter.

I wish there were an easier way to respec JUST the morphs you choose, rather than all-or-nothing. Can always earn new skill points, but cannot undo a morph.

Another thing in favor of non-Steel Tornado (whatever it's called) is that while Steel Tornado DOES increase the range, ~I~ cannot tell when a foe is 8m away or 12 m away.... I mean, I could probably learn, but it's not intuitive. I was surprised when a UI mod changed my reticle color when I closed within 5 m (melee range) and I FELT like I was still too far away to hit; but, no, I was in range for melee attacks. Just didn't FEEL like it. So having the extra range on Steel Tornado might not help me that much --- I might still mis-judge whether a foe is within the (extended) range of the AoE. Whereas, when they are stepping on my toes, I ~know~ that they'll be hit.

Gisgo · April 2014

Steel tornado got me in troubles, it hit too many targets and aggroed XD so i had to respec.

Sorpaijen_ESO · April 2014

That's actually one thing that worried me about other single target morphs into AoEs ---- sometimes there may be a non-hostile foe near a hostile foe, and if you use an AoE you may draw more trouble to yourself. Like, mudcrabs or wolves near hostile humanoids won't normally join in the fight against you.... unless you tag them with your AoE.

Crescent · April 2014

I use it as a stamina execute ability, because the AoE is crap.

With classes like dragon knight who bring good class based aoe's it works, not so much with sorcerer and the crap Lightning Splash as your only ground AoE. Encase unlike talons costs a metric *** ton of magicka so you won't be using it or risk not having enough to renew Thundering Presence and critical surge.

NB is on the same boat as sorcs with not having that good class based AoE outside ultimates, it's mostly Templars and DK's who have good class based AoE. Sorcs and Nightblades need to go into destro staff with Impulse to do any respectable AoE.