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Dizzying Swing needs a rework to be a competitive option for PvP
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AuraStorm43✭✭✭✭✭AuraStorm43 wrote: »For the past 2 years, Dizzying Swing remained relatively balanced and a top choice for stamina classes that don't have a good class spammable like DK, warden, necro, and sorc. It has the highest tooltip for a single target spammable, but this is balanced by its 0.8s cast time, which makes countering the ability relatively easy for an experienced player. Due to the cast time and ease of counter, it was never meant to be a true spammable, but rather a quick in-and-out burst ability for high damage builds. However, the recent meta shift to 1-shot burst damage has made Dizzying Swing much less competitive in that aspect. In BGs, high MMR stamina players mostly build into maximum mobility and use full damage 1-shot builds with DW as their front-bar weapon. This meta change combined with Dizzying Swing's predictability made it a very poor option for damage as players can simply run out of its range or block/dodge the damage with relative ease. In Cyrodiil, Dizzying Swing still remains a pug stomper, but very ineffective against good players.
I'd like to suggest two solutions to make Dizzying Swing competitive again for high level PvP:
1) Revert the ability to its old version with a 1.0s cast time and a very high tooltip. The current version does not offer the high risk, high reward feeling that you normally got. To make matter worse, it's also being outclassed by Surprise Attack, an overloaded single target spammable that's arguably the best in its category. By reverting back to the previous version, Dizzying Swing can fulfill its roll as a high risk, high reward burst "spammable". It will be easier to avoid, but the high damage compensates for that.
2) Remove the cast time and reduce the tooltip to be inline with other instant cast spammables. This essentially turns the ability into a true spammable, which can help it compete with the current fast paced one shot meta as the damage is now instant, making it harder to be avoided.
Stopped reading at “Dizzying Swing remained relatively balanced” its always hit far too hard for what it does
Honestly think its needed a nerf for awhile now
It's a 0.8s cast time ability. It needs to hit hard.
Whether it has a cast time or not isn’t really relevant to me, it has a lotta of different things for just one skill
Its a free stuhn proc for builds that run that set, a snare if they’re off balance immune, and it hits really hardEdited by AuraStorm43 on September 4, 2021 7:32PM1 -
MadeInVN✭✭✭✭AuraStorm43 wrote: »AuraStorm43 wrote: »For the past 2 years, Dizzying Swing remained relatively balanced and a top choice for stamina classes that don't have a good class spammable like DK, warden, necro, and sorc. It has the highest tooltip for a single target spammable, but this is balanced by its 0.8s cast time, which makes countering the ability relatively easy for an experienced player. Due to the cast time and ease of counter, it was never meant to be a true spammable, but rather a quick in-and-out burst ability for high damage builds. However, the recent meta shift to 1-shot burst damage has made Dizzying Swing much less competitive in that aspect. In BGs, high MMR stamina players mostly build into maximum mobility and use full damage 1-shot builds with DW as their front-bar weapon. This meta change combined with Dizzying Swing's predictability made it a very poor option for damage as players can simply run out of its range or block/dodge the damage with relative ease. In Cyrodiil, Dizzying Swing still remains a pug stomper, but very ineffective against good players.
I'd like to suggest two solutions to make Dizzying Swing competitive again for high level PvP:
1) Revert the ability to its old version with a 1.0s cast time and a very high tooltip. The current version does not offer the high risk, high reward feeling that you normally got. To make matter worse, it's also being outclassed by Surprise Attack, an overloaded single target spammable that's arguably the best in its category. By reverting back to the previous version, Dizzying Swing can fulfill its roll as a high risk, high reward burst "spammable". It will be easier to avoid, but the high damage compensates for that.
2) Remove the cast time and reduce the tooltip to be inline with other instant cast spammables. This essentially turns the ability into a true spammable, which can help it compete with the current fast paced one shot meta as the damage is now instant, making it harder to be avoided.
Stopped reading at “Dizzying Swing remained relatively balanced” its always hit far too hard for what it does
Honestly think its needed a nerf for awhile now
It's a 0.8s cast time ability. It needs to hit hard.
Whether it has a cast time or not isn’t really relevant to me, it has a lotta of different things for just one skill
Its a free stuhn proc for builds that run that set, a snare if they’re off balance immune, and it hits really hard
If you think the cast time isn't important then I already know how much PvP you've done. I'd like you to fight any good player with an instant cast spammable, and come back and tell me how many times you've beat them.0 -
AuraStorm43✭✭✭✭✭AuraStorm43 wrote: »AuraStorm43 wrote: »For the past 2 years, Dizzying Swing remained relatively balanced and a top choice for stamina classes that don't have a good class spammable like DK, warden, necro, and sorc. It has the highest tooltip for a single target spammable, but this is balanced by its 0.8s cast time, which makes countering the ability relatively easy for an experienced player. Due to the cast time and ease of counter, it was never meant to be a true spammable, but rather a quick in-and-out burst ability for high damage builds. However, the recent meta shift to 1-shot burst damage has made Dizzying Swing much less competitive in that aspect. In BGs, high MMR stamina players mostly build into maximum mobility and use full damage 1-shot builds with DW as their front-bar weapon. This meta change combined with Dizzying Swing's predictability made it a very poor option for damage as players can simply run out of its range or block/dodge the damage with relative ease. In Cyrodiil, Dizzying Swing still remains a pug stomper, but very ineffective against good players.
I'd like to suggest two solutions to make Dizzying Swing competitive again for high level PvP:
1) Revert the ability to its old version with a 1.0s cast time and a very high tooltip. The current version does not offer the high risk, high reward feeling that you normally got. To make matter worse, it's also being outclassed by Surprise Attack, an overloaded single target spammable that's arguably the best in its category. By reverting back to the previous version, Dizzying Swing can fulfill its roll as a high risk, high reward burst "spammable". It will be easier to avoid, but the high damage compensates for that.
2) Remove the cast time and reduce the tooltip to be inline with other instant cast spammables. This essentially turns the ability into a true spammable, which can help it compete with the current fast paced one shot meta as the damage is now instant, making it harder to be avoided.
Stopped reading at “Dizzying Swing remained relatively balanced” its always hit far too hard for what it does
Honestly think its needed a nerf for awhile now
It's a 0.8s cast time ability. It needs to hit hard.
Whether it has a cast time or not isn’t really relevant to me, it has a lotta of different things for just one skill
Its a free stuhn proc for builds that run that set, a snare if they’re off balance immune, and it hits really hard
If you think the cast time isn't important then I already know how much PvP you've done. I'd like you to fight any good player with an instant cast spammable, and come back and tell me how many times you've beat them.
Good job assuming you know me, always nice when someone makes baseless assumptions on someone they’ve never met
Personally i just think dizzying swing has a lot in its toolkit for how much damage it does, and its something i’ve been seeing in kill feeds for years
The problem was never that it was a stun, it was how much damage it did while also being a stun, you could nerf the damage but bring back the stun, and keep damage in the other morphEdited by AuraStorm43 on September 4, 2021 8:05PM1 -
MadeInVN✭✭✭✭AuraStorm43 wrote: »AuraStorm43 wrote: »AuraStorm43 wrote: »For the past 2 years, Dizzying Swing remained relatively balanced and a top choice for stamina classes that don't have a good class spammable like DK, warden, necro, and sorc. It has the highest tooltip for a single target spammable, but this is balanced by its 0.8s cast time, which makes countering the ability relatively easy for an experienced player. Due to the cast time and ease of counter, it was never meant to be a true spammable, but rather a quick in-and-out burst ability for high damage builds. However, the recent meta shift to 1-shot burst damage has made Dizzying Swing much less competitive in that aspect. In BGs, high MMR stamina players mostly build into maximum mobility and use full damage 1-shot builds with DW as their front-bar weapon. This meta change combined with Dizzying Swing's predictability made it a very poor option for damage as players can simply run out of its range or block/dodge the damage with relative ease. In Cyrodiil, Dizzying Swing still remains a pug stomper, but very ineffective against good players.
I'd like to suggest two solutions to make Dizzying Swing competitive again for high level PvP:
1) Revert the ability to its old version with a 1.0s cast time and a very high tooltip. The current version does not offer the high risk, high reward feeling that you normally got. To make matter worse, it's also being outclassed by Surprise Attack, an overloaded single target spammable that's arguably the best in its category. By reverting back to the previous version, Dizzying Swing can fulfill its roll as a high risk, high reward burst "spammable". It will be easier to avoid, but the high damage compensates for that.
2) Remove the cast time and reduce the tooltip to be inline with other instant cast spammables. This essentially turns the ability into a true spammable, which can help it compete with the current fast paced one shot meta as the damage is now instant, making it harder to be avoided.
Stopped reading at “Dizzying Swing remained relatively balanced” its always hit far too hard for what it does
Honestly think its needed a nerf for awhile now
It's a 0.8s cast time ability. It needs to hit hard.
Whether it has a cast time or not isn’t really relevant to me, it has a lotta of different things for just one skill
Its a free stuhn proc for builds that run that set, a snare if they’re off balance immune, and it hits really hard
If you think the cast time isn't important then I already know how much PvP you've done. I'd like you to fight any good player with an instant cast spammable, and come back and tell me how many times you've beat them.
Good job assuming you know me, always nice when someone makes baseless assumptions on someone they’ve never met
Personally i just think dizzying swing has a lot in its toolkit for how much damage it does, and its something i’ve been seeing in kill feeds for years
The problem was never that it was a stun, it was how much damage it did while also being a stun, you could nerf the damage but bring back the stun, and keep damage in the other morph
I don't know you, but I do know that when dizzy is used against good players, it's usually a disadvantage. I know this because I have fought plenty of good players on PC NA, in duels, BGs, small scale, etc. Dizzy isn't reliable for those scenarios. It's a pure pug stomper, and you can make an argument that it's too good for what it does, but I can tell you right now the moment you fight someone who knows how to play, dizzying swing doesn't look that great anymore.
So when you say whether it has a cast time or not, I have to assume you haven't fought enough good players. That's like saying cast times on ultimates is irrelevant. For 4 years there were no issues with animation canceling ultimates until ZOS decided that casuals should be able to block them, and guess what? They still don't block them lol. All it did was slow down gameplay.
So again, I urge you to use dizzy against a rollerblade, a block casting magdk, a magsorc in a roll build, a super fast stamsorc build, etc. You will understand why I said dizzy is not competitive. It doesn't matter if it has a stun, snare, root, whatever. If it can't reliably land on someone, then it's useless.0 -
AuraStorm43✭✭✭✭✭AuraStorm43 wrote: »AuraStorm43 wrote: »AuraStorm43 wrote: »For the past 2 years, Dizzying Swing remained relatively balanced and a top choice for stamina classes that don't have a good class spammable like DK, warden, necro, and sorc. It has the highest tooltip for a single target spammable, but this is balanced by its 0.8s cast time, which makes countering the ability relatively easy for an experienced player. Due to the cast time and ease of counter, it was never meant to be a true spammable, but rather a quick in-and-out burst ability for high damage builds. However, the recent meta shift to 1-shot burst damage has made Dizzying Swing much less competitive in that aspect. In BGs, high MMR stamina players mostly build into maximum mobility and use full damage 1-shot builds with DW as their front-bar weapon. This meta change combined with Dizzying Swing's predictability made it a very poor option for damage as players can simply run out of its range or block/dodge the damage with relative ease. In Cyrodiil, Dizzying Swing still remains a pug stomper, but very ineffective against good players.
I'd like to suggest two solutions to make Dizzying Swing competitive again for high level PvP:
1) Revert the ability to its old version with a 1.0s cast time and a very high tooltip. The current version does not offer the high risk, high reward feeling that you normally got. To make matter worse, it's also being outclassed by Surprise Attack, an overloaded single target spammable that's arguably the best in its category. By reverting back to the previous version, Dizzying Swing can fulfill its roll as a high risk, high reward burst "spammable". It will be easier to avoid, but the high damage compensates for that.
2) Remove the cast time and reduce the tooltip to be inline with other instant cast spammables. This essentially turns the ability into a true spammable, which can help it compete with the current fast paced one shot meta as the damage is now instant, making it harder to be avoided.
Stopped reading at “Dizzying Swing remained relatively balanced” its always hit far too hard for what it does
Honestly think its needed a nerf for awhile now
It's a 0.8s cast time ability. It needs to hit hard.
Whether it has a cast time or not isn’t really relevant to me, it has a lotta of different things for just one skill
Its a free stuhn proc for builds that run that set, a snare if they’re off balance immune, and it hits really hard
If you think the cast time isn't important then I already know how much PvP you've done. I'd like you to fight any good player with an instant cast spammable, and come back and tell me how many times you've beat them.
Good job assuming you know me, always nice when someone makes baseless assumptions on someone they’ve never met
Personally i just think dizzying swing has a lot in its toolkit for how much damage it does, and its something i’ve been seeing in kill feeds for years
The problem was never that it was a stun, it was how much damage it did while also being a stun, you could nerf the damage but bring back the stun, and keep damage in the other morph
I don't know you, but I do know that when dizzy is used against good players, it's usually a disadvantage. I know this because I have fought plenty of good players on PC NA, in duels, BGs, small scale, etc. Dizzy isn't reliable for those scenarios. It's a pure pug stomper, and you can make an argument that it's too good for what it does, but I can tell you right now the moment you fight someone who knows how to play, dizzying swing doesn't look that great anymore.
So when you say whether it has a cast time or not, I have to assume you haven't fought enough good players. That's like saying cast times on ultimates is irrelevant. For 4 years there were no issues with animation canceling ultimates until ZOS decided that casuals should be able to block them, and guess what? They still don't block them lol. All it did was slow down gameplay.
So again, I urge you to use dizzy against a rollerblade, a block casting magdk, a magsorc in a roll build, a super fast stamsorc build, etc. You will understand why I said dizzy is not competitive. It doesn't matter if it has a stun, snare, root, whatever. If it can't reliably land on someone, then it's useless.
Thats the thing i don’t BG i primarily play in cyrodil, judging the quality of the players i play based on a game mode i do not play isn’t gonna apply, you’re making baseless assumptionsEdited by AuraStorm43 on September 4, 2021 8:26PM0 -
MadeInVN✭✭✭✭AuraStorm43 wrote: »AuraStorm43 wrote: »AuraStorm43 wrote: »AuraStorm43 wrote: »For the past 2 years, Dizzying Swing remained relatively balanced and a top choice for stamina classes that don't have a good class spammable like DK, warden, necro, and sorc. It has the highest tooltip for a single target spammable, but this is balanced by its 0.8s cast time, which makes countering the ability relatively easy for an experienced player. Due to the cast time and ease of counter, it was never meant to be a true spammable, but rather a quick in-and-out burst ability for high damage builds. However, the recent meta shift to 1-shot burst damage has made Dizzying Swing much less competitive in that aspect. In BGs, high MMR stamina players mostly build into maximum mobility and use full damage 1-shot builds with DW as their front-bar weapon. This meta change combined with Dizzying Swing's predictability made it a very poor option for damage as players can simply run out of its range or block/dodge the damage with relative ease. In Cyrodiil, Dizzying Swing still remains a pug stomper, but very ineffective against good players.
I'd like to suggest two solutions to make Dizzying Swing competitive again for high level PvP:
1) Revert the ability to its old version with a 1.0s cast time and a very high tooltip. The current version does not offer the high risk, high reward feeling that you normally got. To make matter worse, it's also being outclassed by Surprise Attack, an overloaded single target spammable that's arguably the best in its category. By reverting back to the previous version, Dizzying Swing can fulfill its roll as a high risk, high reward burst "spammable". It will be easier to avoid, but the high damage compensates for that.
2) Remove the cast time and reduce the tooltip to be inline with other instant cast spammables. This essentially turns the ability into a true spammable, which can help it compete with the current fast paced one shot meta as the damage is now instant, making it harder to be avoided.
Stopped reading at “Dizzying Swing remained relatively balanced” its always hit far too hard for what it does
Honestly think its needed a nerf for awhile now
It's a 0.8s cast time ability. It needs to hit hard.
Whether it has a cast time or not isn’t really relevant to me, it has a lotta of different things for just one skill
Its a free stuhn proc for builds that run that set, a snare if they’re off balance immune, and it hits really hard
If you think the cast time isn't important then I already know how much PvP you've done. I'd like you to fight any good player with an instant cast spammable, and come back and tell me how many times you've beat them.
Good job assuming you know me, always nice when someone makes baseless assumptions on someone they’ve never met
Personally i just think dizzying swing has a lot in its toolkit for how much damage it does, and its something i’ve been seeing in kill feeds for years
The problem was never that it was a stun, it was how much damage it did while also being a stun, you could nerf the damage but bring back the stun, and keep damage in the other morph
I don't know you, but I do know that when dizzy is used against good players, it's usually a disadvantage. I know this because I have fought plenty of good players on PC NA, in duels, BGs, small scale, etc. Dizzy isn't reliable for those scenarios. It's a pure pug stomper, and you can make an argument that it's too good for what it does, but I can tell you right now the moment you fight someone who knows how to play, dizzying swing doesn't look that great anymore.
So when you say whether it has a cast time or not, I have to assume you haven't fought enough good players. That's like saying cast times on ultimates is irrelevant. For 4 years there were no issues with animation canceling ultimates until ZOS decided that casuals should be able to block them, and guess what? They still don't block them lol. All it did was slow down gameplay.
So again, I urge you to use dizzy against a rollerblade, a block casting magdk, a magsorc in a roll build, a super fast stamsorc build, etc. You will understand why I said dizzy is not competitive. It doesn't matter if it has a stun, snare, root, whatever. If it can't reliably land on someone, then it's useless.
Thats the thing i don’t BG i primarily play in cyrodil, judging the quality of the players i play based on a game mode i do not play isn’t gonna apply, you’re making baseless assumptions
Well I do a lot of 1vX and small scale and when cyro is laggy I either duel or do BGs. I only see Dizzy being a pug stomper but anything else it's not that great.0 -
ResidentContrarian✭✭✭✭✭[snip]
[snip] The skill is already arguably overtuned, and you want to tune it even harder for your proc stamsorc META build that isn't as effective as you thought it was going to be this patch.
[snip]
[edited for baiting & to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on September 5, 2021 1:15PM3 -
MadeInVN✭✭✭✭ResidentContrarian wrote: »
I can hop on any class and would still do well. In fact I just 1vXed a week ago on stamplar. [snip]
[edited for flaming & to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on September 5, 2021 1:16PM0 -
ResidentContrarian✭✭✭✭✭ResidentContrarian wrote: »
I can hop on any class and would still do well. In fact I just 1vXed a week ago on stamplar. [snip]
[snip]
You don't understand the implications of the changes you want on dizzy swing because you don't know enough about the builds actually in use in the game, or how these changes would affect (empower) builds far more than your own in a way that will make the skill a target for a nerf in the future.
[snip]
[edited for flaming & to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on September 5, 2021 1:19PM2 -
Psiion✭✭✭✭Greetings all,
Seeing as this thread has mostly become non-constructive back and forth, we have gone ahead and closed it down. While we understand everyone has their own opinions they would like to express, Baiting is against the ESO Forum's Community Rules, and generally non-constructive:Trolling or Baiting: The act of trolling is defined as something that is created for the intent to provoke conflict, shock others, or to elicit a strong negative or emotional reaction. It’s okay and very normal to disagree with others, and even to debate, but provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable in the official The Elder Scrolls Online community. If you do not have something constructive or meaningful to add to a discussion, we strongly recommend you refrain from posting in that thread, and find another discussion to participate in instead. It is also not constructive or helpful to publicly call out others and accuse them of trolling, or call them a troll—please refrain from doing so. If you genuinely believe someone is trolling, please report the post or thread to the ESO Team, and leave it at that.0
This discussion has been closed.