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Is Greyhost going to be proc or no-proc?

Kwoung
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The patch notes have me confused, unless I missed something....

PvP Campaign Changes
For Update 31, the existing No-CP Cyrodiil and Imperial City campaigns will now also prohibit proc sets from firing. We have expanded the number of sets from the original grouping that worked during the initial test several months ago.


This is written like there is a no-proc campaign at the moment that these 2 campaign's will join as no-proc, no? Is there a campaign that is no-proc currently? More to the point, what will Greyhost and Blackreach be when this patch drops?
  • jssriot
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    The prevailing sentiment with this plan is unhappiness: Ravenwatch players largely do not want the No-Proc format pushed onto their existing campaign and players who wanted to try out the No-Proc format generally want to do so while still retaining access to their CP.

    So this change satisfies almost nobody.

    Most people would prefer to use Greyhost or to create a new No-Proc campaign entirely.

    While I don't presume to know the minds of most people who play PVP regularly, I personally agree that they should have simply added a new no-proc campaign, but at the same time, the PVP population is spread so thin over just 4 campaigns that it's depressing, so adding a 5th campaign isn't a realistic use of server resources.

    It's clear for the small fraction of PVP'rs who use the forum here that they are unhappy, given the extraordinary incoherent yelping in other threads. In my PVP guilds the overwhelming response on Discord has been, "Oh we're going to have no-proc again? OK. Whatever."

    Honestly, for my part I am just tired of ZOS having no clear direction with PVP and doing things like yo-yoing around with no-proc. And since I play some of the same toons on more than one campaign, I am not thrilled with having to set them up with a proc'able and a no-proc set up. I also fear this will discourage more people from playing Ravenwatch, and we'll see more of what we saw on the NA server during MYM with one faction excessively dominating to where it's pointless to play there after getting your tier 3 reward status because being farmed for AP by a mega-zerg that already holds everything isn't fun or worth one's time. That's the real problem with Ravenwatch, not that's it's going to be no-proc. But also, I don't think making it no-proc will address that problem. It certainly isn't going to attract any of the more die-hard players who aren't already playing in that campaign.
    PC-NA since 2015. Tired and unimpressed.
  • YandereGirlfriend
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    jssriot wrote: »
    The prevailing sentiment with this plan is unhappiness: Ravenwatch players largely do not want the No-Proc format pushed onto their existing campaign and players who wanted to try out the No-Proc format generally want to do so while still retaining access to their CP.

    So this change satisfies almost nobody.

    Most people would prefer to use Greyhost or to create a new No-Proc campaign entirely.

    While I don't presume to know the minds of most people who play PVP regularly, I personally agree that they should have simply added a new no-proc campaign, but at the same time, the PVP population is spread so thin over just 4 campaigns that it's depressing, so adding a 5th campaign isn't a realistic use of server resources.

    It's clear for the small fraction of PVP'rs who use the forum here that they are unhappy, given the extraordinary incoherent yelping in other threads. In my PVP guilds the overwhelming response on Discord has been, "Oh we're going to have no-proc again? OK. Whatever."

    Honestly, for my part I am just tired of ZOS having no clear direction with PVP and doing things like yo-yoing around with no-proc. And since I play some of the same toons on more than one campaign, I am not thrilled with having to set them up with a proc'able and a no-proc set up. I also fear this will discourage more people from playing Ravenwatch, and we'll see more of what we saw on the NA server during MYM with one faction excessively dominating to where it's pointless to play there after getting your tier 3 reward status because being farmed for AP by a mega-zerg that already holds everything isn't fun or worth one's time. That's the real problem with Ravenwatch, not that's it's going to be no-proc. But also, I don't think making it no-proc will address that problem. It certainly isn't going to attract any of the more die-hard players who aren't already playing in that campaign.

    It's definitely the sentiment on the forums but it's also the overwhelming sentiment on at least the DC side of PC-NA Ravenwatch.

    Most of the guilds are either leaning toward or else have already made the decision to pull the plug on Ravenwatch if the changes go through. Which is a difficult as well as an immensely saddening situation since everyone chooses to play in Ravenwatch because we enjoy and prefer the combat there. Ravenwatch players will become refugees and exiles in formats that they fundamentally do not enjoy to play, which, over the long-term, will likely lead to their attrition away from the game.

    It will also likely start a chain reaction since there aren't even that many guilds in all of PC-NA Ravenwatch to begin with and AD and EP guilds won't remain there if there are no other organized groups to provide good fights.

    And with no organized DC and AD historically underpopulated, the campaign is, as you allude to, likely to revert back to the bad old testing period days when the EP would send like 40 players to zerg down anyone who tried to reclaim a resource at their gate-camped home keeps.

    It is like watching a tragedy unfold in slow-motion. And the worst part is that it's an accident that doesn't have to happen.
  • geonsocal
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    Most people would prefer to use Greyhost or to create a new No-Proc campaign entirely.
    e54bc86d182d90285055e615791d6076.gif
    PVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Grey Host) - This Must be the Place
  • YandereGirlfriend
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    geonsocal wrote: »
    Most people would prefer to use Greyhost or to create a new No-Proc campaign entirely.
    e54bc86d182d90285055e615791d6076.gif

    You have the right to your own opinion but the sentiment in actual Ravenwatch is fairly monolithic on this account.

    There are also a great many CP players who wished for a CP No-Proc format and who have no desire to transfer to Non-CP.
  • geonsocal
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    geonsocal wrote: »
    Most people would prefer to use Greyhost or to create a new No-Proc campaign entirely.
    e54bc86d182d90285055e615791d6076.gif

    You have the right to your own opinion but the sentiment in actual Ravenwatch is fairly monolithic on this account.

    There are also a great many CP players who wished for a CP No-Proc format and who have no desire to transfer to Non-CP.

    Azura's Star, Scourge, Grey Host have always been the "main", most consistently populated map...any "specialized" rule sets should be incorporated in to the "lesser" maps...
    giphy.gif
    PVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Grey Host) - This Must be the Place
  • YandereGirlfriend
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    geonsocal wrote: »
    geonsocal wrote: »
    Most people would prefer to use Greyhost or to create a new No-Proc campaign entirely.
    e54bc86d182d90285055e615791d6076.gif

    You have the right to your own opinion but the sentiment in actual Ravenwatch is fairly monolithic on this account.

    There are also a great many CP players who wished for a CP No-Proc format and who have no desire to transfer to Non-CP.

    Azura's Star, Scourge, Grey Host have always been the "main", most consistently populated map...any "specialized" rule sets should be incorporated in to the "lesser" maps...
    giphy.gif

    Indeed, like Blackreach.

    That option - or a new campaign entirely - are by far the most popular options for the No-Proc format.

    Their current plan is the worst option that they could have chosen.
  • geonsocal
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    geonsocal wrote: »
    geonsocal wrote: »
    Most people would prefer to use Greyhost or to create a new No-Proc campaign entirely.
    e54bc86d182d90285055e615791d6076.gif

    You have the right to your own opinion but the sentiment in actual Ravenwatch is fairly monolithic on this account.

    There are also a great many CP players who wished for a CP No-Proc format and who have no desire to transfer to Non-CP.

    Azura's Star, Scourge, Grey Host have always been the "main", most consistently populated map...any "specialized" rule sets should be incorporated in to the "lesser" maps...
    giphy.gif

    Indeed, like Blackreach.

    That option - or a new campaign entirely - are by far the most popular options for the No-Proc format.

    Their current plan is the worst option that they could have chosen.

    I definitely get what you're saying...it's tough, it seems there are fewer and fewer of us each year...finding consistent activity on even fewer and fewer total map choices is a challenge...

    it definitely seems that near every move zos makes is messing up someone's preferred playstyle...
    tenor.gif

    the proc/no proc set rules in a champion point enabled environment are a double edged sword - it can definitely help bridge the gap between players of differing champion point levels; but - some players can also use it to take their meta or ingenious/devious builds to the next level...

    was playing last night (i play for DC) and ran in to this AD stam dk outside of glade - they were just having fun playing 1 v 3 or 4 against us...we got them close a couple of times, but, they were very skilled - and - had an excellent build...

    after fighting for 15 to 20 minutes or so, and a few us of us blue humbly accepting the fact we couldn't beat this one yellow, we all ended just dancing and playing music together...

    it was what it was, and it is what it is - the top 10% or so players in pvp can really make the game seem pretty unbalanced and a little unfair...
    Edited by geonsocal on July 21, 2021 8:03PM
    PVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Grey Host) - This Must be the Place
  • the1andonlyskwex
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    I pretty much only do BGs (so I don't really have a personal interest), but it seems like there should be a campaign where low 50s can go without having to worry about getting steamrolled by people with 2000cp or whether their gear will actually function properly. Making the no-CP campaign no-proc completely breaks that.
  • Kwoung
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    So does anyone know if Greyhost and/or Blackreach will become no-proc as well, or are they staying as is?
  • geonsocal
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    from the mighty god - zos:
    BASE GAME

    PvP Campaign Changes
    For Update 31, the existing No-CP Cyrodiil and Imperial City campaigns will now also prohibit proc sets from firing.


    as it is written, is as it shall be...
    Edited by geonsocal on July 22, 2021 4:34AM
    PVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Grey Host) - This Must be the Place
  • Reverb
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    In all likelihood all of the existing campaigns will be retired and replaced with a new naming convention to go along with the new proc and CP structure changes. The names will be Blackwood themed, just like they’ve done every year since the Morrowind chapter.
    Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. ~Friedrich Nietzsche
  • Vevvev
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    Shame, I wanted to play no-proc in a CP environment but that isn't happening it seems. I personally hate no-cp because you feel like you're playing half a character or someone who hasn't eaten in days. Sustain is trash and it's harder for light armor users to survive in no-cp, and that's what hurts my magDK the most in that environment. Why I avoid Battlegrounds whenever I can.
    PC NA
    Ceyanna Ashton - Breton MagDK
  • amir412
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    No-proc was fun because procs could be stacked with no downside, it legit was unplayable and not fun.
    I don't see the point of introducing no-proc camps, I barely find any proc users in Blackwood.

    Braindead change, truly shows the good management of this game.
    Edited by amir412 on July 26, 2021 12:46PM
    PC | EU | AD |Stam Dk named "-Saidden"| 1700 CP|
    "..A world without fire. Ashen one, is this truly thy wish?.."


  • Brrrofski
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    Speaking of Greyhost, why didn't we get campaign name changes this year?

    Come on ZOS, that's the nearest thing we get to new PvP content 😂

    Just don't do dragon names again, that was awful haha

    "What campaign you guys in?"

    "Karngngngng, or however you say it"
    Edited by Brrrofski on July 26, 2021 12:50PM
    Xbox One EU
  • Thraben
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    I pretty much only do BGs (so I don't really have a personal interest), but it seems like there should be a campaign where low 50s can go without having to worry about getting steamrolled by people with 2000cp or whether their gear will actually function properly. Making the no-CP campaign no-proc completely breaks that.

    Could you elaborate that? Because one would think that BOTH proc sets and CP are bad for newer players. After all, you CANNOT even have all the proc sets you need until you hit CP 160.

    Real new players don't have things like Zaan, Balorgh, Caluuron, VD etc. They don't even have Ashen Grip. Only those guys who make a new char every month to farm new players with their pre-stored golden equipment have those.
    Hauptmann der Dolche des Königs

    DDK ist die letzte Verteidigungslinie des Dolchsturz- Bündnisses auf der 30-Tage-No-CP- Kampagne(EU) mit dem Anspruch, in kleinen, anfängerfreundlichen Raid-Gruppen möglichst epische Schlachten auszufechten.

    DDK is the Daggerfall Covenant´s last line of defense on the 30 days no-cp campaign (EU). We intend to fight epic battles in small, casual player friendly raid groups.
  • the1andonlyskwex
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    Thraben wrote: »
    I pretty much only do BGs (so I don't really have a personal interest), but it seems like there should be a campaign where low 50s can go without having to worry about getting steamrolled by people with 2000cp or whether their gear will actually function properly. Making the no-CP campaign no-proc completely breaks that.

    Could you elaborate that? Because one would think that BOTH proc sets and CP are bad for newer players. After all, you CANNOT even have all the proc sets you need until you hit CP 160.

    Real new players don't have things like Zaan, Balorgh, Caluuron, VD etc. They don't even have Ashen Grip. Only those guys who make a new char every month to farm new players with their pre-stored golden equipment have those.

    If I go into a PvP campaign as a noob/casual, I'm probably just going in with whatever gear I have from overland or dungeons. If the no-CP campaign is no-proc, that means there isn't a campaign for anybody low-CP who hasn't also specifically farmed no-proc PvP gear. There's even a good chance that people will be totally oblivious to the fact that their (already sub-optimal) proc sets are now totally nonfunctional.

    Making the no-CP campaign also no-proc significantly raises the bar for PvP participation (and the bar is already too high, in my opinion).
  • Amottica
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    jssriot wrote: »
    The prevailing sentiment with this plan is unhappiness: Ravenwatch players largely do not want the No-Proc format pushed onto their existing campaign and players who wanted to try out the No-Proc format generally want to do so while still retaining access to their CP.

    So this change satisfies almost nobody.

    Most people would prefer to use Greyhost or to create a new No-Proc campaign entirely.

    While I don't presume to know the minds of most people who play PVP regularly, I personally agree that they should have simply added a new no-proc campaign, but at the same time, the PVP population is spread so thin over just 4 campaigns that it's depressing, so adding a 5th campaign isn't a realistic use of server resources.

    It's clear for the small fraction of PVP'rs who use the forum here that they are unhappy, given the extraordinary incoherent yelping in other threads. In my PVP guilds the overwhelming response on Discord has been, "Oh we're going to have no-proc again? OK. Whatever."

    Honestly, for my part I am just tired of ZOS having no clear direction with PVP and doing things like yo-yoing around with no-proc. And since I play some of the same toons on more than one campaign, I am not thrilled with having to set them up with a proc'able and a no-proc set up. I also fear this will discourage more people from playing Ravenwatch, and we'll see more of what we saw on the NA server during MYM with one faction excessively dominating to where it's pointless to play there after getting your tier 3 reward status because being farmed for AP by a mega-zerg that already holds everything isn't fun or worth one's time. That's the real problem with Ravenwatch, not that's it's going to be no-proc. But also, I don't think making it no-proc will address that problem. It certainly isn't going to attract any of the more die-hard players who aren't already playing in that campaign.

    Overall I agree with your post. It has been a concern of mine that the more options Zenimax permits the more issues are presented.

    The first issue being that you cannot make everyone happy all the time.

    The second issue is we, including Zenimax, do not have a reliable means to ascertain what people really want without doing a well designed survey (not a forum poll). We tend to hear the most vocal , and that tends to not be the majority, and those we game with. As such Zenimax, not us, do not really know where is best to place a no-proc campaign within the current structure. None of us do.
  • YandereGirlfriend
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    Well, today was the last, best chance to avert the looming disaster in Ravenwatch.

    I hope that whomever came up with this abysmal change is happy seeing a deserted campaign!
  • Kory
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    Amottica wrote: »
    jssriot wrote: »
    The prevailing sentiment with this plan is unhappiness: Ravenwatch players largely do not want the No-Proc format pushed onto their existing campaign and players who wanted to try out the No-Proc format generally want to do so while still retaining access to their CP.

    So this change satisfies almost nobody.

    Most people would prefer to use Greyhost or to create a new No-Proc campaign entirely.

    While I don't presume to know the minds of most people who play PVP regularly, I personally agree that they should have simply added a new no-proc campaign, but at the same time, the PVP population is spread so thin over just 4 campaigns that it's depressing, so adding a 5th campaign isn't a realistic use of server resources.

    It's clear for the small fraction of PVP'rs who use the forum here that they are unhappy, given the extraordinary incoherent yelping in other threads. In my PVP guilds the overwhelming response on Discord has been, "Oh we're going to have no-proc again? OK. Whatever."

    Honestly, for my part I am just tired of ZOS having no clear direction with PVP and doing things like yo-yoing around with no-proc. And since I play some of the same toons on more than one campaign, I am not thrilled with having to set them up with a proc'able and a no-proc set up. I also fear this will discourage more people from playing Ravenwatch, and we'll see more of what we saw on the NA server during MYM with one faction excessively dominating to where it's pointless to play there after getting your tier 3 reward status because being farmed for AP by a mega-zerg that already holds everything isn't fun or worth one's time. That's the real problem with Ravenwatch, not that's it's going to be no-proc. But also, I don't think making it no-proc will address that problem. It certainly isn't going to attract any of the more die-hard players who aren't already playing in that campaign.

    Overall I agree with your post. It has been a concern of mine that the more options Zenimax permits the more issues are presented.

    The first issue being that you cannot make everyone happy all the time.

    The second issue is we, including Zenimax, do not have a reliable means to ascertain what people really want without doing a well designed survey (not a forum poll). We tend to hear the most vocal , and that tends to not be the majority, and those we game with. As such Zenimax, not us, do not really know where is best to place a no-proc campaign within the current structure. None of us do.

    Yep pretty much this. And of course ZOS decides to listen to the vocal minority on their forums. The fact that ZOS didn't even bother to post a "Hey your sets don't work here anymore" upon entering Cyrodiil during no-proc tells you who they're paying attention to

    Well pro proc set people and anti proc set people will complain interchangeably depending on the proc rulesets so....go figure :| and some will call the opposing opinions the "vocal minority" whilst in a bubble of agreement when change happens, and the other side quiets down a little due to the requested change being satisfied.
  • Kwoung
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    geonsocal wrote: »
    from the mighty god - zos:
    BASE GAME

    PvP Campaign Changes
    For Update 31, the existing No-CP Cyrodiil and Imperial City campaigns will now also prohibit proc sets from firing.


    as it is written, is as it shall be...

    Well, I am still not clear on the answer, since as it is written it says "the existing No-CP Cyrodiil and Imperial City campaigns will now ALSO prohibit proc sets from firing". So what campaign are they "ALSO" joining as no-proc? Using the word "also" pretty much says there will be another campaign as no-proc that we should all apparently know about, since it is already slated to be no-proc and these two will be joining it in the no-proc world.

    Edited by Kwoung on August 14, 2021 5:46AM
  • Katahdin
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    Kwoung wrote: »
    geonsocal wrote: »
    from the mighty god - zos:
    BASE GAME

    PvP Campaign Changes
    For Update 31, the existing No-CP Cyrodiil and Imperial City campaigns will now also prohibit proc sets from firing.


    as it is written, is as it shall be...

    Well, I am still not clear on the answer, since as it is written it says "the existing No-CP Cyrodiil and Imperial City campaigns will now ALSO prohibit proc sets from firing". So what campaign are they "ALSO" joining as no-proc? Using the word "also" pretty much says there will be another campaign as no-proc that we should all apparently know about, since it is already slated to be no-proc and these two will be joining it in the no-proc world.


    The no-CP campaigns in Cyrodiil and IC will now have proc sets disabled as well as being no-CP.
    I also see that Volundrung is disabled in the no-CP, no-proc campaigns

    The word "also" is indicating that another condition to the ruleset in those campaigns is being added, it does not mean that there will be a new campaign.

    If it was a whole new campaign, they would have said something like "We are adding a new campaign where proc sets will be disabled"
    Edited by Katahdin on August 23, 2021 2:36PM
    Beta tester November 2013
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