No changes unfortunately. Think most of my proc sets are going to be sitting in storage for a long time.

We’ve traded procs for stacks for less sever side calculations or something like that. The stacks outperform the procs by a wide margin in the current game. This runs contrary to the lower the ceiling and raise the floor narrative introduced with CP 2.0 and the crit nerf. I mean I see why they did it but the ceiling and floor are still as far from one another as ever.

They've acknowledged the current implementation isn't ideal. When or if they'll change it is anyone's guess.

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

They've acknowledged the current implementation isn't ideal. When or if they'll change it is anyone's guess.

The real issue is that tanks can put tons of proc sets on in PVP and kill lightly armored characters who went all-out offenses and with very little investment over in offensive minded stats.

The answer is simple though IMO - Go to the Oblivion/Skyrim formula where when you wore heavy armor, all of your spells suffered a damage/effectiveness penalty. Now proc sets aren't really spells, but they can be treated the same way such that if you wear a proc set and have 40K resists, those 40K resists also apply to outgoing damage as well as incoming damage. That way when PVPers stack proc sets in heavy armor, they're actually harming their ability to have any offensive damage output. That would address the need to have proc sets neutered throughout the entire game, because most tanks aren't running offensive proc sets in PVE.

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

They've acknowledged the current implementation isn't ideal. When or if they'll change it is anyone's guess.

Do you know where they acknowledged it? I'd love to read/watch what they say.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/580491/update-31-combat-preview/p1

Aside from this and a few more specific, smaller adjustments, we’re still monitoring many of the moving parts (such as proc set scaling) and discussing measures we can take in future updates that won’t adversely affect parts of the game where problems aren’t as severe.

Thanks for the info. I really hope they're serious about it and aren't just saying that while we continue to see update after update launch without any changes. Fingers crossed.

Kalle_Demos wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

They've acknowledged the current implementation isn't ideal. When or if they'll change it is anyone's guess.

Do you know where they acknowledged it? I'd love to read/watch what they say.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/580491/update-31-combat-preview/p1

Aside from this and a few more specific, smaller adjustments, we’re still monitoring many of the moving parts (such as proc set scaling) and discussing measures we can take in future updates that won’t adversely affect parts of the game where problems aren’t as severe.

Thanks for the info. I really hope they're serious about it and aren't just saying that while we continue to see update after update launch without any changes. Fingers crossed.

This was the final straw among a heap of nonsensical updates that led me to cancel my subscription. The egregious disparity between Magicka and Stamina is particularly disturbing as we have yet another example of balance becoming far worse. I sincerely hope someone is following this closely as I believe such heavy handed approaches have negative impacts on the health of the game overall.

I’m reality there’s is no real disparity between stam and mag, only what people want to believe because of some myth that playing in melee range is makes it impossible to stay alive and do solid DPS. That is simply not true. Hybridization opens the door to even more mixed comps but sadly most groups want all mag because of support sets which have made their way to DPS now. I have no idea why people are so scared to bring a couple of stam toons along when they need to fill a trial. Mag toons die at pretty much the same rate in content as stam toons. You’ll probably find people that main stam are actually better at mechs as well because you have to learn the tells in order to survive.

If only more raid leads would give stam a chance.

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

Kalle_Demos wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

They've acknowledged the current implementation isn't ideal. When or if they'll change it is anyone's guess.

Do you know where they acknowledged it? I'd love to read/watch what they say.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/580491/update-31-combat-preview/p1

Aside from this and a few more specific, smaller adjustments, we’re still monitoring many of the moving parts (such as proc set scaling) and discussing measures we can take in future updates that won’t adversely affect parts of the game where problems aren’t as severe.

Thanks for the info. I really hope they're serious about it and aren't just saying that while we continue to see update after update launch without any changes. Fingers crossed.

This was the final straw among a heap of nonsensical updates that led me to cancel my subscription. The egregious disparity between Magicka and Stamina is particularly disturbing as we have yet another example of balance becoming far worse. I sincerely hope someone is following this closely as I believe such heavy handed approaches have negative impacts on the health of the game overall.

I’m reality there’s is no real disparity between stam and mag, only what people want to believe because of some myth that playing in melee range is makes it impossible to stay alive and do solid DPS. That is simply not true. Hybridization opens the door to even more mixed comps but sadly most groups want all mag because of support sets which have made their way to DPS now. I have no idea why people are so scared to bring a couple of stam toons along when they need to fill a trial. Mag toons die at pretty much the same rate in content as stam toons. You’ll probably find people that main stam are actually better at mechs as well because you have to learn the tells in order to survive.

If only more raid leads would give stam a chance.

I'm referring to the disparity in proc set scaling. Weapon damage is far easier to stack for stam than spell damage is to stack for mag. It's far more difficult for mag players to reach the threshold required to retain their proc sets original values.

If you are in overland it is easy enough not to require proc sets.
If you are in a normal dungeon it is also easy enough.
If you are in a trial / vet dungeon you should have a healer and a tank, who will buff your stats to reach maximum proc set values.

In PVE, when you need meta (vet dlc dungeons and trials) proc sets will be as powerful as they were. In PVP i think proc sets were specifically nerfed.

Edited to my original post.

It really is frustrating that ZOS keeps trying to counter the top tier tiny percent of players that can blast through their hardest PvE content without a problem, or nuke other players in PvP without even trying, in ways that hardly affect those players (if at all) but hurt the rest of us. Content keeps getting harder for a lot of people just because skills and sets keep getting nerfed left and right. It was nice when they made proc sets easier to use by removing the various % chances and just made them flat procs on certain conditions instead, but then they turned around and made these high numbers you have to reach just to break even on the power your sets had before.

I'm not the best player, and I don't bother with meta or BiS most of the time (the only time I do is when I've decided in my theorycrafting that it's a set I'd like to go ahead and try). I have a WW Stamsorc who runs Sellistrix, Blood Moon, and Tzogvin's. I could hit 30k on her relatively easily, but when u30 came out and the proc set nerf dropped, I lost a solid 10k dps. It's frustrating that even stacking stuff like WD enchants, potions, and Mundus, I still can't get any higher than like 5.5k WD. For the longest time I resigned myself to getting just flat stat sets for her, but then I tried Pillar of Nirn and Rush of Agony on the PTS and the DPS felt solid. It's still annoying that a build I've been running since like Greymoor got gutted so thoroughly though.

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

The changes have made procs work the way they should have to begin with to be honest.

Before the update, the procs were weird design.

lol no they basically gutted them.

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

That;s actually a really good idea. No tank in PVE was ever going to damage proc sets in dungeons or trials; they use tank proc sets that boosted their survivability or survivability of their party members. Or provided buffs.

If you've ever tanked for a pug group you'll be carrying some DPS gear. Doesn't need to be proc sets though - medusa/mother's sorrow on a templar magtank is quite nice when you get a group who couldn't take out a skeever without an ultimate. A lot of sets are also not really role specific - hitis for example is a tank and a healer set as is winters respite.

I'd much rather see the scaling on damage made a bit more non-linear so that if you have "meh" damage the sets are ok for PvE content but not meta, scale with damage as they do now, but once you get to the upper end either cap the scaling or give it rapidly diminishing returns to deal with the bogus theorycrafter builds with one stat insanely maximised.