Beating a dead horse

jrgray93 · July 2021

I can live with backing off the mitigation changes and reducing healing. It's way better than what was proposed in PTS week one, but it's still not good enough.

There is still no mention of addressing:

stamina proc sets being buffed by scaling, with magicka being ruined
broken builds like deadlands assassin + frenzied momentum + crystal weapon + heavy attack into whirling blades - seriously, overtuning mitigation is the wrong strategy... [Snip]
light armor still having an asinine martial damage penalty
nerfing 150 sustain passive when zero people playing this game want this change
overwhelmingly unwelcome changes to armor to homogenize their identity and remove necessary elements for many builds (crit on medium)

The list could go on.

[Snip]

[Edited for bashing]

Xahran · July 2021

Honestly both light armor and heavy armour shouldn't have damage taken increase. Taking increased damage is unnecessary for the light armour, because it is already the squishiest armour and heavy don't need it because it defeats its purpose which is maximising survivability at the cost of damage; plus the roll dodge and sprint penalties are already enough.

I, however, am excited about the armour passive changes with light armour being the crit/pen armour and med being the tankier more mobile wpn/spl damage stacking armour, the build variety will soar, specially for crafted sets. I am still worried about the potential broken builds some people may find though.

jrgray93 · July 2021

Xahran wrote: »

Honestly both light armor and heavy armour shouldn't have damage taken increase. Taking increased damage is unnecessary for the light armour, because it is already the squishiest armour and heavy don't need it because it defeats its purpose which is maximising survivability at the cost of damage; plus the roll dodge and sprint penalties are already enough.

I, however, am excited about the armour passive changes with light armour being the crit/pen armour and med being the tankier more mobile wpn/spl damage stacking armour, the build variety will soar, specially for crafted sets. I am still worried about the potential broken builds some people may find though.

More than 75% of the sets in the game were not designed with armor hybridization in mind. Variety and viability will increase for crafted and hybrid stat sets, while harming the vast majority of the sets. You can't pull the rug out from the foundations of class and set design of 7+ years.

neferpitou73 · July 2021

I agree in general but to be fair to them their change to the agility medium armor passive does partially fix the proc damage issue.

Everything else you list is a good point. And to your larger point about the devs simply not understand their game I agree completely. The only change they've made that I've actually enjoyed in the past year (when they started the AOE tests) is nerfing Crimson into the ground (which was their own fault anyway). Everything else has been a complete failure from start to finish.

I'm not sure what's changed in the past year, whether it's someone new taking over their combat or the winds have changed. But they better change it back.

oterWitz · July 2021

I don't normally do this but...

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Greetings!

Today, the combat team would like to share what we’ve been working on since Update 30! While this update won’t have too many large-scale changes, there are a number of little things. We’d like to highlight a few of the more noteworthy changes in this post as well as talk about some behind the scenes work we’ve been doing.
[...]
The list of changes coming for Update 31 is quite long, but it’s built up from many little changes rather than huge ones, so our hope is it will be less disruptive than some of our more recent updates. We still look forward to hearing your feedback and discussion that comes from the upcoming PTS cycle based on the changes! Thanks for reading and see you in Tamriel.

(bolded for effect)
...sometimes I like to point out a bit of irony. Especially when all of my stam builds need to be reworked b/c armor passives...

DrSlaughtr · July 2021

#4 is 100% true. Nerfing rejuvenation is uncalled for and seems to only be happening because of Sustained by Sucking.

Wuuffyy · July 2021

TheEndBringer wrote: »

#4 is 100% true. Nerfing rejuvenation is uncalled for and seems to only be happening because of Sustained by Sucking.

They did the same with jug. Released the same item and sold it to us in the form of a gimmick

neferpitou73 · July 2021

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

#4 is 100% true. Nerfing rejuvenation is uncalled for and seems to only be happening because of Sustained by Sucking.

They did the same with jug. Released the same item and sold it to us in the form of a gimmick

and Iceheart and Dead-waters and...wait I'm sensing a pattern here

Sluggy · July 2021

neferpitou73 wrote: »

and Iceheart and Dead-waters and...wait I'm sensing a pattern here

Dead-Waters had the nerf coming. I honestly don't know how that made it out of PTS as it was. And I REALLY don't understand why every endgame trial group and Cyrodiil ballgroup in the game took over two years to discover how insanely powerful it was!

neferpitou73 · July 2021

Sluggy wrote: »

neferpitou73 wrote: »

and Iceheart and Dead-waters and...wait I'm sensing a pattern here

Dead-Waters had the nerf coming. I honestly don't know how that made it out of PTS as it was. And I REALLY don't understand why every endgame trial group and Cyrodiil ballgroup in the game took over two years to discover how insanely powerful it was!

I'm still sore about what they did to it. My PvP guild was using that set since at least early 2019 on one of our most unique builds. It was in such a nice spot for a set. Extremely powerful in situations where you needed it but completely useless outside of them (or at least outside of how we used the set). Although by the end it likely needed a good nerf because everyone and their mother was running it. But now it's pretty much completely useless except on a hammer build. Which makes me sad.

In the above comment tho I was more alluding to the fact that they then added a suspiciously similar set the patch after they nerfed it...

Xahran · July 2021

jrgray93 wrote: »

More than 75% of the sets in the game were not designed with armor hybridization in mind. Variety and viability will increase for crafted and hybrid stat sets, while harming the vast majority of the sets. You can't pull the rug out from the foundations of class and set design of 7+ years.

Which is fine and I like it that way. Not all armours should work with both stamina and magicka builds. No sets will be harmed here only builds that relied on the crit passive and I know this sucks for me and a lot of people who used it but I see the crit damage/healing done change as a net gain overall.

Curious_Death · July 2021

jrgray93 wrote: »

Xahran wrote: »

Honestly both light armor and heavy armour shouldn't have damage taken increase. Taking increased damage is unnecessary for the light armour, because it is already the squishiest armour and heavy don't need it because it defeats its purpose which is maximising survivability at the cost of damage; plus the roll dodge and sprint penalties are already enough.

I, however, am excited about the armour passive changes with light armour being the crit/pen armour and med being the tankier more mobile wpn/spl damage stacking armour, the build variety will soar, specially for crafted sets. I am still worried about the potential broken builds some people may find though.

More than 75% of the sets in the game were not designed with armor hybridization in mind. Variety and viability will increase for crafted and hybrid stat sets, while harming the vast majority of the sets. You can't pull the rug out from the foundations of class and set design of 7+ years.

hehe - they dont play this game ... i guess 90% of players that play pvp/hardcore pve re the same with u.. but we cant change anything... only leaving this crap might change something and their mind

Sluggy · July 2021

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Sluggy wrote: »

neferpitou73 wrote: »

and Iceheart and Dead-waters and...wait I'm sensing a pattern here

Dead-Waters had the nerf coming. I honestly don't know how that made it out of PTS as it was. And I REALLY don't understand why every endgame trial group and Cyrodiil ballgroup in the game took over two years to discover how insanely powerful it was!

I'm still sore about what they did to it. My PvP guild was using that set since at least early 2019 on one of our most unique builds. It was in such a nice spot for a set. Extremely powerful in situations where you needed it but completely useless outside of them (or at least outside of how we used the set). Although by the end it likely needed a good nerf because everyone and their mother was running it. But now it's pretty much completely useless except on a hammer build. Which makes me sad.

In the above comment tho I was more alluding to the fact that they then added a suspiciously similar set the patch after they nerfed it...

Yeah you have a fair point about the new set being added in with similar effects. Though at least that one had a proper cooldown on it. And I can agree that the new version of DW does feel extremely limited to only a handful of situations now.

To comment more on the fact that they basically just added another copy-cat set, I have to say that sometimes new sets coming out in later patches feel really uninspired. All this gear with stacking mechanics just gets really old after a while. At least they've shown that some new sets can be interesting and not have an annoying minigame attached to them. Note to ZoS: Please make more sets like Heartlands!!

neferpitou73 · July 2021

Sluggy wrote: »

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Sluggy wrote: »

neferpitou73 wrote: »

and Iceheart and Dead-waters and...wait I'm sensing a pattern here

Dead-Waters had the nerf coming. I honestly don't know how that made it out of PTS as it was. And I REALLY don't understand why every endgame trial group and Cyrodiil ballgroup in the game took over two years to discover how insanely powerful it was!

I'm still sore about what they did to it. My PvP guild was using that set since at least early 2019 on one of our most unique builds. It was in such a nice spot for a set. Extremely powerful in situations where you needed it but completely useless outside of them (or at least outside of how we used the set). Although by the end it likely needed a good nerf because everyone and their mother was running it. But now it's pretty much completely useless except on a hammer build. Which makes me sad.

In the above comment tho I was more alluding to the fact that they then added a suspiciously similar set the patch after they nerfed it...

Yeah you have a fair point about the new set being added in with similar effects. Though at least that one had a proper cooldown on it. And I can agree that the new version of DW does feel extremely limited to only a handful of situations now.

To comment more on the fact that they basically just added another copy-cat set, I have to say that sometimes new sets coming out in later patches feel really uninspired. All this gear with stacking mechanics just gets really old after a while. At least they've shown that some new sets can be interesting and not have an annoying minigame attached to them. Note to ZoS: Please make more sets like Heartlands!!

I think a better way to fix dead-waters was to fix the amount of ult you received. IIRC they buffed it from like 9-15 every time you damaged an enemy that died. Which was beyond ridiculous. The better way to nerf that would've been to change it down to 7-8. Still powerful but not ridiculously so.