Jameson18 wrote: »

With the severe lack of passives in proportion to slottables, Rejuvenation, being as low as it is now, should be made into a passive.

We all understand the anti power creep moves and intended progression of the new system. We want people to have to make decisions on what they slot, etc. etc. It all goes into character builds and development. Totally understood and its great and all.

But....
At this point, it's not likely to be a preferred slotted star anymore, if at all. Reduce it a touch more and make it a passive so people have something to spend points on. Replace the slottable with something like 3-5% move speed or something akin to a miniature version of the decisive trait. Afterall, it IS the fitness tree.

I certainly won't slot it anymore. I've never understood the constant nerfs to resource restore. It would be one thing if sustain was just out of control but it's not.

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Jameson18 wrote: »

With the severe lack of passives in proportion to slottables, Rejuvenation, being as low as it is now, should be made into a passive.

We all understand the anti power creep moves and intended progression of the new system. We want people to have to make decisions on what they slot, etc. etc. It all goes into character builds and development. Totally understood and its great and all.

But....
At this point, it's not likely to be a preferred slotted star anymore, if at all. Reduce it a touch more and make it a passive so people have something to spend points on. Replace the slottable with something like 3-5% move speed or something akin to a miniature version of the decisive trait. Afterall, it IS the fitness tree.

I certainly won't slot it anymore. I've never understood the constant nerfs to resource restore. It would be one thing if sustain was just out of control but it's not.

Not only is sustain not out of control and requiring of dumb nerfs like this but now classes like MagDK which has real sustain issues right now get hit with one more nerf.

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Jameson18 wrote: »

With the severe lack of passives in proportion to slottables, Rejuvenation, being as low as it is now, should be made into a passive.

We all understand the anti power creep moves and intended progression of the new system. We want people to have to make decisions on what they slot, etc. etc. It all goes into character builds and development. Totally understood and its great and all.

But....
At this point, it's not likely to be a preferred slotted star anymore, if at all. Reduce it a touch more and make it a passive so people have something to spend points on. Replace the slottable with something like 3-5% move speed or something akin to a miniature version of the decisive trait. Afterall, it IS the fitness tree.

I certainly won't slot it anymore. I've never understood the constant nerfs to resource restore. It would be one thing if sustain was just out of control but it's not.

Agreed, I don’t understand this one at all. I used to think all the sustain nerfs were because the devs wanted players to incorporate some sustain into their builds (maybe recovery jewelry, or food, Breton/Redguard/Bosmer, use some heavy attacks, skills like Dark Conversion), instead of just going full damage.

However the introduction of Bahsei’s Mania proved my theory false. Apparently the devs want to encourage everyone to struggle with low resources, and are willing to reward that with higher damage. And anyone who does build for some sustain (through any source I listed above) will not be rewarded, instead they get a reduced damage multiplier on top of their already-lower damage stats.

I tried to argue for Bahsei’s to be inverted, and actually reward players that could stay near 100% Magicka so they could compete with full damage builds, but no luck.

Nah, this is just the Iceheart vs Mother Ciannait case all over again, now with Rejuvenation vs Sustained by Suffering (the new slotable recovery while under negative effect). They introduce a new lackluster thing and nerf the already existing similar one to make the new one more appealing.

Very bad development behaviour, apparently they didn't learn anything from the previous Iceheart blowback...

Does anyone have a good way to compare this to other slottable CP’s to determine power budget?

One example would be that Fighting Finesse = 10X Divines Trait with Shadow Mundus. Therefore Rejuvenation should be 10X Invigorating trait, or 110 tri-stat Recovery. I don’t think this specific conversion is accurate though, since Invigorating is widely considered underpowered and bordering on useless, and any balance discussion that uses mundus stones as a conversion is asking for trouble since some have been updated and others forgotten. There’s also no guarantee that red slottables are intended to have the same power as blue slottables.

Maybe comparing to other red stars using set bonuses would be better? Ironclad gives 1730 armor, which is exactly half of the 3460 on Fortified Brass 5pc. Assuming Fortified Brass 5pc is equal to Amber Plasm 5pc we could say Rejuvenation should be half of the 245 tri-stat recovery. This would mean 122.5 tri-recovery for it to be balanced, not 90 or 150.

Open to ideas for a more reliable conversion. 5pc sets are not the best, since they often have varying power budgets. Anyway, both of the examples above show that Rejuvenation was possibly a little too strong, but is now far too weak.

Another option would be to introduce single stat recovery slottable stars. Most builds don’t care very much about off-stat sustain or health recovery. I’d rather just slot a star that gave ~200 Magicka Recovery in most cases, not split the power budget over multiple stats.

jrgray93 wrote: »

Just revert the damned change and make the new 150 one grant 300. I still wouldn't slot that one at 300 because I am a magplar and cleanse lol

This. 300 recovery for the tiny bit of time anyone is inflicted with a negative effect would make it closer to usable for anyone but a tank.

Yeah this cp seems to low tobe worth slotting at all now with the massive lack of passives wouldnt mind it becoming one

It should be a passive it is awkwardly low..

Agreed the new changes make it too weak for a slottable and should be made into a passive.

Rejuvination is such a nonnegotiable CP that everyone has to take that it essentially isn't a choice anymore, which limits build diversity and goes against the idea behind slottables in the first place. The only ones who might not take it are tanks because they benefit from other CP more, but if all DPS no matter the spec and all healers need this CP and even a lot of tanks take it, it can hardly be considered "optional" and a "choice". You essentially only have 3 slottables in Fitness and that's not because Rejuvination is too strong. It's because people are starved for sustain so they can go full damage or full support at every other turn.