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Am I going to be disappointed in Frostbite?
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YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ESO_Nightingale wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Lughlongarm wrote: »Keep it, In the upcoming patch I think they are going to give Destructive Touch, on a frost staff, an execute component.
THAT would be really nice.
It would have to be a fairly huge amount of scaling on the execute since the base damage of Frost Clench is absurdly low.
It would need to be like an Executioner-style +400%.
well, actually, since the base damage is the same as impale, it would realistically only need to be a bonus 300% to be on the same level as it.
There's also the difference in range to consider. And the lack of basically any worthwhile passives.
Clench is a rather measly (for a ranged ability) 18 meters whereas IIRC Imapale is the full ranged standard of 28.
the other big factor is that it's a weapon skill, so it has to be worse than impale in some ways, otherwise we just have the executioner situation where everyone just runs executioner because it's far better and therefore build diversity is not encouraged, class skills should be better than weapon skills. weapon skills are availiable to pretty much everyone.
edit: words
I agree with that in principle but we also don't want another Impulse situation (I think that you meant Impale earlier) where ZOS creates an "execute" weapon ability that's ignored by 99% of players, even the magDKs whom it is ostensibly intended for.
If they turn it into an execute then the range should be extended to the ranged standard of 28 meters. This should also apply to Shock Clench.
The 18-meter standard is only for gap-closers, pulls, and CC abilities and neither of those abilities are either of those things and should thus not be subjected to their range limitations.
the thing is that it makes sense for the immobilise, so they'd need to remove the immobilise in order to increase the 28m range, i can definitely see people getting annoyed about that since it's used in pvp to lock down enemies, and magicka definitely doesn't need less cc options outside of classes. i can see them adding an execute to it as well, if they shift the taunt, but it would realistically need to be less powerful than impale (and yes i did accidentally type impulse before, sorry about that.)
Well, I would like to see the Immobilize and taunt go elsewhere in order to make room for the execute.
In either case though, it makes zero sense given current game standards why Shock Clench, with no CC of any kind appended to it, is subject to its absurdly tiny 18-meter range.0 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭YandereGirlfriend wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Lughlongarm wrote: »Keep it, In the upcoming patch I think they are going to give Destructive Touch, on a frost staff, an execute component.
THAT would be really nice.
It would have to be a fairly huge amount of scaling on the execute since the base damage of Frost Clench is absurdly low.
It would need to be like an Executioner-style +400%.
well, actually, since the base damage is the same as impale, it would realistically only need to be a bonus 300% to be on the same level as it.
There's also the difference in range to consider. And the lack of basically any worthwhile passives.
Clench is a rather measly (for a ranged ability) 18 meters whereas IIRC Imapale is the full ranged standard of 28.
the other big factor is that it's a weapon skill, so it has to be worse than impale in some ways, otherwise we just have the executioner situation where everyone just runs executioner because it's far better and therefore build diversity is not encouraged, class skills should be better than weapon skills. weapon skills are availiable to pretty much everyone.
edit: words
I agree with that in principle but we also don't want another Impulse situation (I think that you meant Impale earlier) where ZOS creates an "execute" weapon ability that's ignored by 99% of players, even the magDKs whom it is ostensibly intended for.
If they turn it into an execute then the range should be extended to the ranged standard of 28 meters. This should also apply to Shock Clench.
The 18-meter standard is only for gap-closers, pulls, and CC abilities and neither of those abilities are either of those things and should thus not be subjected to their range limitations.
the thing is that it makes sense for the immobilise, so they'd need to remove the immobilise in order to increase the 28m range, i can definitely see people getting annoyed about that since it's used in pvp to lock down enemies, and magicka definitely doesn't need less cc options outside of classes. i can see them adding an execute to it as well, if they shift the taunt, but it would realistically need to be less powerful than impale (and yes i did accidentally type impulse before, sorry about that.)
Well, I would like to see the Immobilize and taunt go elsewhere in order to make room for the execute.
In either case though, it makes zero sense given current game standards why Shock Clench, with no CC of any kind appended to it, is subject to its absurdly tiny 18-meter range.
shock clench could use 28 meters for sure. but i don't see there being another decent target for the immobilise other than frost impulse which while okay, it's just wasted potential. and even then frost blockade basically does that just with an added step of the chilled status effect.PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX1 -
Lughlongarm✭✭✭✭✭ESO_Nightingale wrote: »Lughlongarm wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Lughlongarm wrote: »Keep it, In the upcoming patch I think they are going to give Destructive Touch, on a frost staff, an execute component.
THAT would be really nice.
It would have to be a fairly huge amount of scaling on the execute since the base damage of Frost Clench is absurdly low.
It would need to be like an Executioner-style +400%.
well, actually, since the base damage is the same as impale, it would realistically only need to be a bonus 300% to be on the same level as it.
There's also the difference in range to consider. And the lack of basically any worthwhile passives.
Clench is a rather measly (for a ranged ability) 18 meters whereas IIRC Imapale is the full ranged standard of 28.
the other big factor is that it's a weapon skill, so it has to be worse than impulse in some ways, otherwise we just have the executioner situation where everyone just runs executioner because it's far better and therefore build diversity is not encouraged, class skills should be better than weapon skills. weapon skills are availiable to pretty much everyone.
That's why I think more, Poison arrow, kind of an executioner and not impale.
honestly, either works, but the poison arrow type would have to be fairly decent to consider running it over degeneration or fetcher infection, remember that degeneration increases max magicka and mag recovery while slotted, does more damage over time for a longer duration, and grants empower as well. it's really competing against a lot and even if you're running frostbite like i am you're still sacrificing damage just to run frost reach.
I don't expect it to be like a BiS skill or a huge buff to Warden's DPS(which is already top-tier this patch from what I understand). Just an extra source of frost damage for niche builds that like to focus on that. That's why I'm mentioning this upcoming change on a post dedicated to the "Frostbite" set. If you are going with frostbite to begin with, a buffed destructive touch could be competitive. Could perhaps even open a solid setup option for PVE with master Ice staff, front bar.Edited by Lughlongarm on July 11, 2021 6:33AM1 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Lughlongarm wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »Lughlongarm wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Lughlongarm wrote: »Keep it, In the upcoming patch I think they are going to give Destructive Touch, on a frost staff, an execute component.
THAT would be really nice.
It would have to be a fairly huge amount of scaling on the execute since the base damage of Frost Clench is absurdly low.
It would need to be like an Executioner-style +400%.
well, actually, since the base damage is the same as impale, it would realistically only need to be a bonus 300% to be on the same level as it.
There's also the difference in range to consider. And the lack of basically any worthwhile passives.
Clench is a rather measly (for a ranged ability) 18 meters whereas IIRC Imapale is the full ranged standard of 28.
the other big factor is that it's a weapon skill, so it has to be worse than impulse in some ways, otherwise we just have the executioner situation where everyone just runs executioner because it's far better and therefore build diversity is not encouraged, class skills should be better than weapon skills. weapon skills are availiable to pretty much everyone.
That's why I think more, Poison arrow, kind of an executioner and not impale.
honestly, either works, but the poison arrow type would have to be fairly decent to consider running it over degeneration or fetcher infection, remember that degeneration increases max magicka and mag recovery while slotted, does more damage over time for a longer duration, and grants empower as well. it's really competing against a lot and even if you're running frostbite like i am you're still sacrificing damage just to run frost reach.
I don't expect it to be like a BiS skill or a huge buff to Warden's DPS(which is already top-tier this patch from what I understand). Just an extra source of frost damage for niche builds that like to focus on that. That's why I'm mentioning this upcoming change on a post dedicated to the "Frostbite" set. If you are going with frostbite to begin with, a buffed destructive touch could be competitive. Could perhaps even open a solid setup option for PVE with master Ice staff, front bar.
that's what i want, i think it would be fair if frostbite made it so that frost reach was better than degeneration when used in tandem.PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX1 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ESO_Nightingale wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Lughlongarm wrote: »Keep it, In the upcoming patch I think they are going to give Destructive Touch, on a frost staff, an execute component.
THAT would be really nice.
It would have to be a fairly huge amount of scaling on the execute since the base damage of Frost Clench is absurdly low.
It would need to be like an Executioner-style +400%.
well, actually, since the base damage is the same as impale, it would realistically only need to be a bonus 300% to be on the same level as it.
There's also the difference in range to consider. And the lack of basically any worthwhile passives.
Clench is a rather measly (for a ranged ability) 18 meters whereas IIRC Imapale is the full ranged standard of 28.
the other big factor is that it's a weapon skill, so it has to be worse than impale in some ways, otherwise we just have the executioner situation where everyone just runs executioner because it's far better and therefore build diversity is not encouraged, class skills should be better than weapon skills. weapon skills are availiable to pretty much everyone.
edit: words
I agree with that in principle but we also don't want another Impulse situation (I think that you meant Impale earlier) where ZOS creates an "execute" weapon ability that's ignored by 99% of players, even the magDKs whom it is ostensibly intended for.
If they turn it into an execute then the range should be extended to the ranged standard of 28 meters. This should also apply to Shock Clench.
The 18-meter standard is only for gap-closers, pulls, and CC abilities and neither of those abilities are either of those things and should thus not be subjected to their range limitations.
the thing is that it makes sense for the immobilise, so they'd need to remove the immobilise in order to increase the 28m range, i can definitely see people getting annoyed about that since it's used in pvp to lock down enemies, and magicka definitely doesn't need less cc options outside of classes. i can see them adding an execute to it as well, if they shift the taunt, but it would realistically need to be less powerful than impale (and yes i did accidentally type impulse before, sorry about that.)
Well, I would like to see the Immobilize and taunt go elsewhere in order to make room for the execute.
In either case though, it makes zero sense given current game standards why Shock Clench, with no CC of any kind appended to it, is subject to its absurdly tiny 18-meter range.
shock clench could use 28 meters for sure. but i don't see there being another decent target for the immobilise other than frost impulse which while okay, it's just wasted potential. and even then frost blockade basically does that just with an added step of the chilled status effect.
Not to get too far off topic here, but what is the deal with Shock Clench anyway? It serves exactly the same function as Shock Ring (direct damage AoE spammable), while being shorter range, dealing less damage, with a smaller radius, and more difficult to aim at the center of a group.
The only reason Shock clench is ever slotted is because the Master Destruction Staff is moderately useful on some AoE burst builds, while the Blackrose Destruction Staff is absolute garbage. BRP Lightning should honestly just work like Master 2H (an AoE spammable arena weapon done right), and Shock Clench should get a different morph effect (maybe a decent single target spammable?).1 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Lughlongarm wrote: »Keep it, In the upcoming patch I think they are going to give Destructive Touch, on a frost staff, an execute component.
THAT would be really nice.
It would have to be a fairly huge amount of scaling on the execute since the base damage of Frost Clench is absurdly low.
It would need to be like an Executioner-style +400%.
well, actually, since the base damage is the same as impale, it would realistically only need to be a bonus 300% to be on the same level as it.
There's also the difference in range to consider. And the lack of basically any worthwhile passives.
Clench is a rather measly (for a ranged ability) 18 meters whereas IIRC Imapale is the full ranged standard of 28.
the other big factor is that it's a weapon skill, so it has to be worse than impale in some ways, otherwise we just have the executioner situation where everyone just runs executioner because it's far better and therefore build diversity is not encouraged, class skills should be better than weapon skills. weapon skills are availiable to pretty much everyone.
edit: words
I agree with that in principle but we also don't want another Impulse situation (I think that you meant Impale earlier) where ZOS creates an "execute" weapon ability that's ignored by 99% of players, even the magDKs whom it is ostensibly intended for.
If they turn it into an execute then the range should be extended to the ranged standard of 28 meters. This should also apply to Shock Clench.
The 18-meter standard is only for gap-closers, pulls, and CC abilities and neither of those abilities are either of those things and should thus not be subjected to their range limitations.
the thing is that it makes sense for the immobilise, so they'd need to remove the immobilise in order to increase the 28m range, i can definitely see people getting annoyed about that since it's used in pvp to lock down enemies, and magicka definitely doesn't need less cc options outside of classes. i can see them adding an execute to it as well, if they shift the taunt, but it would realistically need to be less powerful than impale (and yes i did accidentally type impulse before, sorry about that.)
Well, I would like to see the Immobilize and taunt go elsewhere in order to make room for the execute.
In either case though, it makes zero sense given current game standards why Shock Clench, with no CC of any kind appended to it, is subject to its absurdly tiny 18-meter range.
shock clench could use 28 meters for sure. but i don't see there being another decent target for the immobilise other than frost impulse which while okay, it's just wasted potential. and even then frost blockade basically does that just with an added step of the chilled status effect.
Not to get too far off topic here, but what is the deal with Shock Clench anyway? It serves exactly the same function as Shock Ring (direct damage AoE spammable), while being shorter range, dealing less damage, with a smaller radius, and more difficult to aim at the center of a group.
The only reason Shock clench is ever slotted is because the Master Destruction Staff is moderately useful on some AoE burst builds, while the Blackrose Destruction Staff is absolute garbage. BRP Lightning should honestly just work like Master 2H (an AoE spammable arena weapon done right), and Shock Clench should get a different morph effect (maybe a decent single target spammable?).
it was standardised so badly that it's just kinda... not good anymore. It's even worse now since master's no longer turns it into a spammable. Some people insist it is good and use it on magicka warden but they're definitely stuck in the past. this isn't murkmire anymore, no stun, lower ST damage. why use it?PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX0