Am I going to be disappointed in Frostbite?

ArchMikem

I spent the wee hours of the night before bed kitting out my Ice Mage Magden with a Frostbite set, golding the staves and a couple body pieces with gold glyps, thinking this was going to be an upgrade, but I haven't actually tested the build yet. Frost Magic dps has always been lacking so I'm already thinking the new set isn't going to be enough, especially since I lost about 7,000 max magic replacing Crafty Alfiq for it.

So, Ysgramor's and Frosbite. Should I expect to be disappointed?

Zodiarkslayer

Well, if you manage your expectations, you might be surprised. 😉

fred4

Yes.

WrathOfInnos

If you can keep high Brittle uptimes and use a Frost Staff front bar then it’s going to perform much better than Alfiq or Ysgramor, and pretty close to Mother’s Sorrow. It won’t be quite as good as Medusa (assuming you don’t have Minor Force) and it’s far behind any of the Minor Slayer sets like Siroria or Bahsei. If you run it front bar then I’d recommend Diamond’s Victory over Frostbite, but if it’s on body/jewelry these will also be very close with good uptimes.

ESO_Nightingale

Frostbite is alright. I've said this a couple of times, but i think it's worth farming. Even if you're not going to use it because it's the kind of set that will improve with more frost damage skills in the future, given the current outcry for more frost damage skills via deep fissure and SCR i think it's likely going to improve soon. I currently use it on my theme build and do solid enough dps but I'd increase it a more by using more meta sets instead of building around the frostden niche.

RandomKodiak

I am having a great time with a frost warden running Frostbite/Medusa. Definately an AoE build but 65k parse trial dummy single target and does massive AoE for trash groups and bosses with adds. I would not do vet trials but everything up to that it is fine dps..

ESO_Nightingale

RandomKodiak wrote: »

I am having a great time with a frost warden running Frostbite/Medusa. Definately an AoE build but 65k parse trial dummy single target and does massive AoE for trash groups and bosses with adds. I would not do vet trials but everything up to that it is fine dps..

You could do vet trials with it but in coordinated and solid groups your dps would look a bit sad in comparison.

ArchMikem

RandomKodiak wrote: »

I am having a great time with a frost warden running Frostbite/Medusa. Definately an AoE build but 65k parse trial dummy single target and does massive AoE for trash groups and bosses with adds. I would not do vet trials but everything up to that it is fine dps..

You just opened my eyes to Medusa.

My intention isn't to blaze Vet content with this build, I just want to not be hitting general PvE content with wet noodles.

ESO_Nightingale

ArchMikem wrote: »

RandomKodiak wrote: »

I am having a great time with a frost warden running Frostbite/Medusa. Definately an AoE build but 65k parse trial dummy single target and does massive AoE for trash groups and bosses with adds. I would not do vet trials but everything up to that it is fine dps..

You just opened my eyes to Medusa.

My intention isn't to blaze Vet content with this build, I just want to not be hitting general PvE content with wet noodles.

you should be alright then just as long as you're running force pulse, a frost glyph and frost wall.

RandomKodiak

ArchMikem wrote: »

You just opened my eyes to Medusa.

My intention isn't to blaze Vet content with this build, I just want to not be hitting general PvE content with wet noodles.

Body Frostbite, 2 crit moster pieces (Slimecraw and another, or 1 piece crit monster and Harpooner's Kilt), Medusa Jewelry with bloodthirsty enchants, I run 2 Medusa staves backbar infused weapon damage, frontbar infused absorb magicka (can as Nightinggale suggested run Frost enchant but I am bad at remembering the netch and run out of magicka without). Frontbar: Force Pulse, Deep fissure, Fetcher, Betty, inner light, Backbar: Unstable wall, Winter's Revenge, Degen/Orb, Bird of Prey (for extra passive and emergency speed boost), Inner Light. Ulti Bear is more damage but Ice comet is not bad dps and great AoE if going full Ice wizard.

RandomKodiak

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/732639565940260915/854787631433646080/Screenshot_20210616_131722.png


Bear Ulti did about 5k more damage but screenshot borked on me.

ArchMikem

RandomKodiak wrote: »

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/732639565940260915/854787631433646080/Screenshot_20210616_131722.png


Bear Ulti did about 5k more damage but screenshot borked on me.

How do you have 3k more magic than me with that gear. I'd I dropped Ysgramor's for Medusa I'd lose another 1k. That can't be just from Race passive?

I've played with my character a bit and it still feels like a moist noodle, though it may be a bit better now with Frostbite. Still it's become apparent if I want to actually be hitting good numbers I need to be doing crits, so I guess my next project is to farm a Medusa set and try to get that Crit Chance up.

I just wish ZOS hadn't kept on nerfing Crit chance sources.

ArchMikem

Apparently I'm soloing world bosses with my current build, so Frostbite with Ysgramor's seems good enough. I would love to crit more but I'm not in a rush. Already have two pieces of Medusa, just gonna wait for the jewelry to pop in The Golden.

Red_Feather

If it actually was fun it'd be reduced to be more grey and generic and over time average.

Lughlongarm

Keep it, In the upcoming patch I think they are going to give Destructive Touch, on a frost staff, an execute component.

ArchMikem

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Keep it, In the upcoming patch I think they are going to give Destructive Touch, on a frost staff, an execute component.

THAT would be really nice.

ImSoPro

I’ve just started using frostbite literally yesterday on my PvP iceden. I paired it with ysgramor(I previously used ysgramor and winterborn) and I use exclusively ice skills, it definitely hits hard but I need an execute so bad. You have to use exclusively frost skills to take full advantage I suppose, but really winters revenge is the main skill that keeps it up.

ImSoPro

I’ve just started using frostbite literally yesterday on my PvP iceden. I paired it with ysgramor(I previously used ysgramor and winterborn) and I use exclusively ice skills(except force pulse), it definitely hits hard but I need an execute so bad. You have to use exclusively frost skills to take full advantage I suppose, but really winters revenge is the main skill that keeps it up.

ImSoPro

I’ve just started using frostbite literally yesterday on my PvP iceden. I paired it with ysgramor(I previously used ysgramor and winterborn) and I use exclusively ice skills(except force pulse), the set combo definitely hits hard but I need an execute so bad. You have to use exclusively frost skills to take full advantage I suppose, but really winters revenge is the main skill that keeps it up.

YandereGirlfriend

ArchMikem wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Keep it, In the upcoming patch I think they are going to give Destructive Touch, on a frost staff, an execute component.

THAT would be really nice.

It would have to be a fairly huge amount of scaling on the execute since the base damage of Frost Clench is absurdly low.

It would need to be like an Executioner-style +400%.

ESO_Nightingale

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Keep it, In the upcoming patch I think they are going to give Destructive Touch, on a frost staff, an execute component.

I don't personally see that happening unless they shift the taunt to elemental susceptibility, and even then it would be nice to have it on frost reach instead. They have to buff a skill that we are currently using. Probably frost wall. Or they have to buff a skill we don't use to the point where it's good enough to slot. The idea of major brittle being given to icy rage is one I've thought about and it does logically make sense as the current effect of icy rage is practically useless. However it presents a problem. Yes frost dps would run the skill. But they'd also likely lose a ton of damage by doing so since frost DPS wardens run bear. Dropping bear for other ultimates is a no-go at the moment. Frost Necromancers run glacial collosus as well so the responsibility is left to frost staff tanks/Healers and warden DPS. I can see tanks running saxhleels champion with icy rage and therefore negating our theoretical new "role".

ESO_Nightingale

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Keep it, In the upcoming patch I think they are going to give Destructive Touch, on a frost staff, an execute component.

THAT would be really nice.

It would have to be a fairly huge amount of scaling on the execute since the base damage of Frost Clench is absurdly low.

It would need to be like an Executioner-style +400%.

well, actually, since the base damage is the same as impale, it would realistically only need to be a bonus 300% to be on the same level as it.

Lughlongarm

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Keep it, In the upcoming patch I think they are going to give Destructive Touch, on a frost staff, an execute component.

I don't personally see that happening unless they shift the taunt to elemental susceptibility, and even then it would be nice to have it on frost reach instead. They have to buff a skill that we are currently using. Probably frost wall. Or they have to buff a skill we don't use to the point where it's good enough to slot. The idea of major brittle being given to icy rage is one I've thought about and it does logically make sense as the current effect of icy rage is practically useless. However it presents a problem. Yes frost dps would run the skill. But they'd also likely lose a ton of damage by doing so since frost DPS wardens run bear. Dropping bear for other ultimates is a no-go at the moment. Frost Necromancers run glacial collosus as well so the responsibility is left to frost staff tanks/Healers and warden DPS. I can see tanks running saxhleels champion with icy rage and therefore negating our theoretical new "role".

Reason I thought it going for Destructive Touch is due to the hint on the combat changes post - "Frost Staff’s ability to give the touch of cold death". So we have touch and we have cold death. So, Destructive Touch+ execute sounds very reasonable.
However, clench is the morph that could be adjusted to have special effects and not the base skill nor reach, perhaps this concept could be changed. If its going for the base skill, It will probably work like Poison Arrow, more or less. If its going for clench, it will probably replace the root and have much bigger execute multiplier . I don't think its going on frost wall which already got re-design to be more defensive/supportive oriented, but who knows.

ESO_Nightingale

Lughlongarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Keep it, In the upcoming patch I think they are going to give Destructive Touch, on a frost staff, an execute component.

I don't personally see that happening unless they shift the taunt to elemental susceptibility, and even then it would be nice to have it on frost reach instead. They have to buff a skill that we are currently using. Probably frost wall. Or they have to buff a skill we don't use to the point where it's good enough to slot. The idea of major brittle being given to icy rage is one I've thought about and it does logically make sense as the current effect of icy rage is practically useless. However it presents a problem. Yes frost dps would run the skill. But they'd also likely lose a ton of damage by doing so since frost DPS wardens run bear. Dropping bear for other ultimates is a no-go at the moment. Frost Necromancers run glacial collosus as well so the responsibility is left to frost staff tanks/Healers and warden DPS. I can see tanks running saxhleels champion with icy rage and therefore negating our theoretical new "role".

"Frost Staff’s ability to give the touch of cold death".

i think you're looking too far into this, even if touch is buffed, this looks purely like a flavourful way to say frost dps.

Lughlongarm

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Keep it, In the upcoming patch I think they are going to give Destructive Touch, on a frost staff, an execute component.

I don't personally see that happening unless they shift the taunt to elemental susceptibility, and even then it would be nice to have it on frost reach instead. They have to buff a skill that we are currently using. Probably frost wall. Or they have to buff a skill we don't use to the point where it's good enough to slot. The idea of major brittle being given to icy rage is one I've thought about and it does logically make sense as the current effect of icy rage is practically useless. However it presents a problem. Yes frost dps would run the skill. But they'd also likely lose a ton of damage by doing so since frost DPS wardens run bear. Dropping bear for other ultimates is a no-go at the moment. Frost Necromancers run glacial collosus as well so the responsibility is left to frost staff tanks/Healers and warden DPS. I can see tanks running saxhleels champion with icy rage and therefore negating our theoretical new "role".

"Frost Staff’s ability to give the touch of cold death".

i think you're looking too far into this, even if touch is buffed, this looks purely like a flavourful way to say frost dps.

Could be....

YandereGirlfriend

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Keep it, In the upcoming patch I think they are going to give Destructive Touch, on a frost staff, an execute component.

THAT would be really nice.

It would have to be a fairly huge amount of scaling on the execute since the base damage of Frost Clench is absurdly low.

It would need to be like an Executioner-style +400%.

well, actually, since the base damage is the same as impale, it would realistically only need to be a bonus 300% to be on the same level as it.

There's also the difference in range to consider. And the lack of basically any worthwhile passives.

Clench is a rather measly (for a ranged ability) 18 meters whereas IIRC Imapale is the full ranged standard of 28.

ESO_Nightingale

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Keep it, In the upcoming patch I think they are going to give Destructive Touch, on a frost staff, an execute component.

THAT would be really nice.

It would have to be a fairly huge amount of scaling on the execute since the base damage of Frost Clench is absurdly low.

It would need to be like an Executioner-style +400%.

well, actually, since the base damage is the same as impale, it would realistically only need to be a bonus 300% to be on the same level as it.

There's also the difference in range to consider. And the lack of basically any worthwhile passives.

Clench is a rather measly (for a ranged ability) 18 meters whereas IIRC Imapale is the full ranged standard of 28.

the other big factor is that it's a weapon skill, so it has to be worse than impale in some ways, otherwise we just have the executioner situation where everyone just runs executioner because it's far better and therefore build diversity is not encouraged, class skills should be better than weapon skills. weapon skills are availiable to pretty much everyone.

edit: words

Lughlongarm

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Keep it, In the upcoming patch I think they are going to give Destructive Touch, on a frost staff, an execute component.

THAT would be really nice.

It would have to be a fairly huge amount of scaling on the execute since the base damage of Frost Clench is absurdly low.

It would need to be like an Executioner-style +400%.

well, actually, since the base damage is the same as impale, it would realistically only need to be a bonus 300% to be on the same level as it.

There's also the difference in range to consider. And the lack of basically any worthwhile passives.

Clench is a rather measly (for a ranged ability) 18 meters whereas IIRC Imapale is the full ranged standard of 28.

the other big factor is that it's a weapon skill, so it has to be worse than impulse in some ways, otherwise we just have the executioner situation where everyone just runs executioner because it's far better and therefore build diversity is not encouraged, class skills should be better than weapon skills. weapon skills are availiable to pretty much everyone.

That's why I think more, Poison arrow, kind of an executioner and not impale.

YandereGirlfriend

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Keep it, In the upcoming patch I think they are going to give Destructive Touch, on a frost staff, an execute component.

THAT would be really nice.

It would have to be a fairly huge amount of scaling on the execute since the base damage of Frost Clench is absurdly low.

It would need to be like an Executioner-style +400%.

well, actually, since the base damage is the same as impale, it would realistically only need to be a bonus 300% to be on the same level as it.

There's also the difference in range to consider. And the lack of basically any worthwhile passives.

Clench is a rather measly (for a ranged ability) 18 meters whereas IIRC Imapale is the full ranged standard of 28.

the other big factor is that it's a weapon skill, so it has to be worse than impale in some ways, otherwise we just have the executioner situation where everyone just runs executioner because it's far better and therefore build diversity is not encouraged, class skills should be better than weapon skills. weapon skills are availiable to pretty much everyone.

edit: words

I agree with that in principle but we also don't want another Impulse situation (I think that you meant Impale earlier) where ZOS creates an "execute" weapon ability that's ignored by 99% of players, even the magDKs whom it is ostensibly intended for.

If they turn it into an execute then the range should be extended to the ranged standard of 28 meters. This should also apply to Shock Clench.

The 18-meter standard is only for gap-closers, pulls, and CC abilities and neither of those abilities are either of those things and should thus not be subjected to their range limitations.

ESO_Nightingale

Lughlongarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Keep it, In the upcoming patch I think they are going to give Destructive Touch, on a frost staff, an execute component.

THAT would be really nice.

It would have to be a fairly huge amount of scaling on the execute since the base damage of Frost Clench is absurdly low.

It would need to be like an Executioner-style +400%.

well, actually, since the base damage is the same as impale, it would realistically only need to be a bonus 300% to be on the same level as it.

There's also the difference in range to consider. And the lack of basically any worthwhile passives.

Clench is a rather measly (for a ranged ability) 18 meters whereas IIRC Imapale is the full ranged standard of 28.

the other big factor is that it's a weapon skill, so it has to be worse than impulse in some ways, otherwise we just have the executioner situation where everyone just runs executioner because it's far better and therefore build diversity is not encouraged, class skills should be better than weapon skills. weapon skills are availiable to pretty much everyone.

That's why I think more, Poison arrow, kind of an executioner and not impale.

honestly, either works, but the poison arrow type would have to be fairly decent to consider running it over degeneration or fetcher infection, remember that degeneration increases max magicka and mag recovery while slotted, does more damage over time for a longer duration, and grants empower as well. it's really competing against a lot and even if you're running frostbite like i am you're still sacrificing damage just to run frost reach.

ESO_Nightingale

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Keep it, In the upcoming patch I think they are going to give Destructive Touch, on a frost staff, an execute component.

THAT would be really nice.

It would have to be a fairly huge amount of scaling on the execute since the base damage of Frost Clench is absurdly low.

It would need to be like an Executioner-style +400%.

well, actually, since the base damage is the same as impale, it would realistically only need to be a bonus 300% to be on the same level as it.

There's also the difference in range to consider. And the lack of basically any worthwhile passives.

Clench is a rather measly (for a ranged ability) 18 meters whereas IIRC Imapale is the full ranged standard of 28.

the other big factor is that it's a weapon skill, so it has to be worse than impale in some ways, otherwise we just have the executioner situation where everyone just runs executioner because it's far better and therefore build diversity is not encouraged, class skills should be better than weapon skills. weapon skills are availiable to pretty much everyone.

edit: words

I agree with that in principle but we also don't want another Impulse situation (I think that you meant Impale earlier) where ZOS creates an "execute" weapon ability that's ignored by 99% of players, even the magDKs whom it is ostensibly intended for.

If they turn it into an execute then the range should be extended to the ranged standard of 28 meters. This should also apply to Shock Clench.

The 18-meter standard is only for gap-closers, pulls, and CC abilities and neither of those abilities are either of those things and should thus not be subjected to their range limitations.

the thing is that it makes sense for the immobilise, so they'd need to remove the immobilise in order to increase the 28m range, i can definitely see people getting annoyed about that since it's used in pvp to lock down enemies, and magicka definitely doesn't need less cc options outside of classes. i can see them adding an execute to it as well, if they shift the taunt, but it would realistically need to be less powerful than impale (and yes i did accidentally type impulse before, sorry about that.)