Maintenance for the week of April 6:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
Another PvE vs Cyrodiil Thread...
-
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Morgha_Kul wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »Conversely a PvP player has to play a lot more PvE than PvP to obtain the Tamriel Hero, Tamriel Master Adventurer, and Tamriel Skyshard Hunter achievements.
The difference is that there isn't anyone actively interfering with those efforts. A PvE player might NEVER get what he needs, as there will usually be someone deliberately stopping him.
And PvP'r may never get what he wants/needs because mobs and bosses thwart his every attempt. Good thing is both problems have a solution. Take a friend and get it done.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."3 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'll be honest, even as a PvPer I can understand this. If you're not logged in at the right time on the right faction, you're not getting those shards. Fair call.
Also, I believe the Imperial City Fishing achievement is separated from the master fisher one? So I don't see why the skyshard one shouldn't be too.
Edited by Alucardo on July 3, 2021 3:00AM1 -
Greasytengu✭✭✭✭✭I wouldn't be opposed to ZOS making all achievement progress account wide rather than having it character wide.
The upside for PVErs would be that you could make a character on each alliance and get the gate shards in each alliance's area. You would still have to go out and get the delve and town shards, but it would cut down on some of the frustration a little bit.
Other than that, its fine as is." I nEeD HeAlInG!!! "0 -
Morgha_Kul✭✭✭✭✭
✭Morgha_Kul wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »Conversely a PvP player has to play a lot more PvE than PvP to obtain the Tamriel Hero, Tamriel Master Adventurer, and Tamriel Skyshard Hunter achievements.
The difference is that there isn't anyone actively interfering with those efforts. A PvE player might NEVER get what he needs, as there will usually be someone deliberately stopping him.
And PvP'r may never get what he wants/needs because mobs and bosses thwart his every attempt. Good thing is both problems have a solution. Take a friend and get it done.
Really? You're equating NPCs to PC gankers? Mobs and bosses are in PvP zones as well. Again, to do a PvE activity, you need only concern yourself with the mobs and bosses. In Cyrodiil, you not only have to deal with the mobs, but you have to deal with players.
Most PvE players are going to be entirely unable to compete with someone who has built for PvP. Indeed, most PvE players won't even SEE the PvP players before they're already dead.Exploring Tamriel since 1994.4 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Morgha_Kul wrote: »Morgha_Kul wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »Conversely a PvP player has to play a lot more PvE than PvP to obtain the Tamriel Hero, Tamriel Master Adventurer, and Tamriel Skyshard Hunter achievements.
The difference is that there isn't anyone actively interfering with those efforts. A PvE player might NEVER get what he needs, as there will usually be someone deliberately stopping him.
And PvP'r may never get what he wants/needs because mobs and bosses thwart his every attempt. Good thing is both problems have a solution. Take a friend and get it done.
Really? You're equating NPCs to PC gankers? Mobs and bosses are in PvP zones as well. Again, to do a PvE activity, you need only concern yourself with the mobs and bosses. In Cyrodiil, you not only have to deal with the mobs, but you have to deal with players.
Most PvE players are going to be entirely unable to compete with someone who has built for PvP. Indeed, most PvE players won't even SEE the PvP players before they're already dead.
Really? You're equating NPCs to PC gankers? "
Yeah I am. Both can prevent a player from getting what they want. Doesn't matter that there isn't players also trying to prevent you from getting what you want. Either way you don't get what you want and either way the solution is get help.
And there are players that do PvP that will tell you they are denied joining a group based on the gear they don't have. So that is also player blocking player.
Honestly most the time players camping turn in spots are also PvE'rs hoping for a few easy kills. The real PvP'rs are off doing PvP things.
Point I made earlier still remains. Having PvE type activities in Cyrodiil helps bring new players into PvP. Some stick around and that is very good for the game.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."4 -
M_Volsung✭✭✭✭✭Point I made earlier still remains. Having PvE type activities in Cyrodiil helps bring new players into PvP. Some stick around and that is very good for the game.
All it does for me is make my loathe pvp even more, once I get the last group of skyshards I will happily buy them from the crown store for my other characters so I never have to venture into that toxic waste dump ever again."In the Deep Halls, Far from Men;
Forsaken Red Mountain, Twisted Kin;
Hail the Mind, Hail the Stone;
Dwarven Pride, Stronger than Bone"
—Dwemer Inquiries I-III, Thelwe Ghelein4 -
cyclonus11✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Point I made earlier still remains. Having PvE type activities in Cyrodiil helps bring new players into PvP. Some stick around and that is very good for the game.
Not with this lag. Who would want to subject themselves to that on a daily basis?
Edited by cyclonus11 on July 3, 2021 4:34AM1 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭cyclonus11 wrote: »
Masochists.
That hit close to my heart mate
Regarding the topic, those achievements cover all of Tamriel that existed in-game upon their introduction. Therefore @op has few misconception and straight up falsities in his arguments.
1. Those achievements are not PvE achievements.
2. PvP folks do require to do purely PvE activities for their PvP (gear, skill lines, skill points)
3. In PvE other humans do hinder their activities (pugs) of trying to get said gear (and if u r arguing that they can get premade, so can you bring premade when doing quests to do quests together and be safer).2 -
Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭You can do all this without PvP.
Nobody is ever in the delves and as for the skyshards behind the gates, at some point your faction will turn a dead campaign your colour.
It's not going to change, nor should it. Live with you it or move on.0 -
Sorbin✭✭✭✭Girl_Number8 wrote: »No reason to do that. You can simply wait for your color to dominate one of the campaigns, them get the skyshards rather easy.
Since you’re a PvEr, dying shouldn’t matter to you because you’re questing. Also, when your faction is dominate, you can easily revive at a keep close by any quest you’re doing.
The achievement requires you to go into a PvP zone. Imo it is smart move on ZOS’ part to give players an incentive to try different content.
So I am not seeing your problem really....
Hmmm, well if we are on the topic of forcing people to do different content then absolutely they should make the PvP ranks at least require some PvE content then! I mean I was just joking when I said EMP should require malestrom, but if you think that forcing people to do content they absolutely do not want to do is a brilliant marketing tactic, then why not make it so some of the PvP achievements require you to finish hard PvE content as well! Excellent idea. Everyone is forced to do everything now. Even if they really dont want to.
PvPers already have to do tons of PvE to stay relevant in PvP. Farming mythics, dungeon gear and overland sets never ends and is absolutely necessary to stay competitive. Getting a few achievements involves going into an empty campaign that your faction is dominant in and then it's done for good.Edited by Sorbin on July 3, 2021 7:30AM3 -
aaisoaho✭✭✭✭✭They are completionist achievements and by that nature, PvX achievements. I'd consider it to be silly to change it to conform others. They are already doable, a lot of people already have them. It would take the prestige of the achievements away if you were to dilute them to PvE + PvP achievements.1 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nobody is ever in the delves and as for the skyshards behind the gates, at some point your faction will turn a dead campaign your colour.
Even then some people find it tricky.. yesterday I saw a low AR player coming through the gate and they stopped in their tracks when they saw me. So I whispered them, "Skyshard?". They said yes, so I just let them pass. They weren't going to cause any trouble on their own.
Sadly she got destroyed by guards lmao0 -
Ippokrates✭✭✭✭✭Ippokrates wrote: »Well, that is why PvE Cyro would nice addition to the game. People would have a chance to explore this area and learn where is everything without risk of being ganked by some loser or zergs aiming for a single players.
As long as the rewards aren't there. That includes Cyro Skyshards being exclusive to PvP Cyro.
Sure, then they could add some quests for the province, randomly spamming daedra or even World Bosses like Horrors. Pure PvE on Cyro is more demanding than typhical overland content from basic game or DLC so it would be nice addition for single players.Ippokrates wrote: »Well, that is why PvE Cyro would nice addition to the game. People would have a chance to explore this area and learn where is everything without risk of being ganked by some loser or zergs aiming for a single players.
There really isn't enough there for that, people would just go there for a few days complete the zone then never go back, unless the left the rewards in which case people would farm them causing PVP players to lose out on some of there only income.
There are the Dolmens the delves, the Skyshards, about a dozen one time quests, which involve delivering a message or contacting someone in on of the towns, one fetch quest gives you memento.
Other than that its just the town daily quests and Cyrodiil is not like the other zones which almost all have a quest at the points of interest in Cyrodiil the points of interest are just places to send you on the daily quests they don't have there own unique quests to do.
The lore books most of which you can find if you do the base game PVE zones, when I finally went to Cyrodiil I only had to find about a dozen of the books the rest had already been found in other zones.
And now it is a problem? Just take nb or vamp and you could collect most of the sets without problems.
The only disadvantage would be bots, but this is something that zos should handle anyway ^^Edited by Ippokrates on July 3, 2021 8:30AM0 -
ajkb78✭✭✭✭✭Cyrodiil pve is just not hard, though you have to pick your moment. Use a dead campaign, wait for your alliance to dominate, gallop in and grab the skyshards. Gankers don't camp skyshards in dead campaigns as it would mostly be a waste of time.
I got all the Cyro PVE done in a day like that, did both sets of enemy skyshards early in the morning when the scroll gates were open, cycled through every repeatable town quest, every overland skyshard, all the random side quests I could find, all the delve bosses and all the dolmens. I encountered 2 players in the whole time and got killed a total of no times, though I did subsequently get killed once when I went back another day to do the fishing achievement. I'm not scared of a bit of PVP but this was on my PVE main and I couldn't be bothered to change into my PvP gear so it was nice to be undisturbed.0 -
WaywardArgonian✭✭✭✭✭I did find it a hassle when I first went after these achievements and had no interest in PVP. Solo'ing all dolmens in Cyrodiil on my weak PVE build made for a dreadful evening.
However, I think these achievements are designed with the intent of letting PVE'ers/questers at least dabble into the PVP part of the game. Even if it's just to let them learn to queue for a campaign, familiarize themselves with the map, etc.
It's the same reason why there is no option to earn tickets outside of PVP areas during Midyear Mayhem, and there is no PVE version of Cyrodiil. From looking at the way their game is designed, ZOS seems to want to make sure players don't completely shut themselves off from one aspect of the game.PC/EU altaholic | #1 PVP support player (contested) | @ degonyte in-game | Nibani Ilath-Pal (AD Nightblade) - AvA rank 50 | Jehanne Teymour (AD Sorcerer) - AvA rank 50 | Niria Ilath-Pal (AD Templar) - AvA rank 500 -
Folkb✭✭✭✭✭I wish there was a cyrodiil pve. It seems like a cool area to explore but the way the story is told in this era how would you implement a pve cyrodiil and have it make sense?
Heck lore wise I'm even iffy about the pvp implementation as a map. Like why are there 3 elder scrolls just chilling there and why are there these random keeps just hanging around?
Cyrodiil as a zone could have been so much more imo.1 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭If the cyrodiil shards were separated into their own achievement as per the OPs idea, wouldn't achievement hunters/completionists still feel like they have to do the cyrodiil skyshard achievement, and therefore still complain about the PvP aspect??
Edited.. I hate my autocorrectEdited by Biro123 on July 3, 2021 11:58AMMinalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.1 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Morgha_Kul wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »Conversely a PvP player has to play a lot more PvE than PvP to obtain the Tamriel Hero, Tamriel Master Adventurer, and Tamriel Skyshard Hunter achievements.
The difference is that there isn't anyone actively interfering with those efforts. A PvE player might NEVER get what he needs, as there will usually be someone deliberately stopping him.
This is such misinformation, other than maybe during the Midyear event you would be hard pressed to find a PvP player anywhere near the PvE quest areas and skyshards. The exception being if you flip an objective town which is supposed to be defended.
I recently created a new account and character on the EU server and did all the Cyro quests and fishing achievement, rarely saw another player and unless I looked for one there were no fights.
Keep your head on a swivel, stealth and don't aggro other players.
If you want it super easy do the Cyrodiil quest/shards on your character before level 50 on the under 50 campaign which is empty 80% of the time.
Edited by TequilaFire on July 3, 2021 12:39PM3 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You are not a Tamriel Master Adventurer or a Tamriel Skyshard Hunter unless you demonstrate your adventuring and hunting prowess in Cyrodiil and thus not deserving of the achievement unless you do so.
Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.4 -
Jierdanit✭✭✭✭✭
✭Girl_Number8 wrote: »No reason to do that. You can simply wait for your color to dominate one of the campaigns, them get the skyshards rather easy.
Since you’re a PvEr, dying shouldn’t matter to you because you’re questing. Also, when your faction is dominate, you can easily revive at a keep close by any quest you’re doing.
The achievement requires you to go into a PvP zone. Imo it is smart move on ZOS’ part to give players an incentive to try different content.
So I am not seeing your problem really....
Hmmm, well if we are on the topic of forcing people to do different content then absolutely they should make the PvP ranks at least require some PvE content then! I mean I was just joking when I said EMP should require malestrom, but if you think that forcing people to do content they absolutely do not want to do is a brilliant marketing tactic, then why not make it so some of the PvP achievements require you to finish hard PvE content as well! Excellent idea. Everyone is forced to do everything now. Even if they really dont want to.
lol
Because PvP players dont already pretty much have to do PvE to get the gear or skills they want, level faster or to get literally any decent cosmetic, like skins, personalities or costumes.
As a PvE player the only reasons you have to go to Cyro are those achivements and getting Vigor, Caltrops, etc.
Stop complaining that you have to do so much PvP as a PvE player when PvP players have to do way more PvE just to be able to properly play the part of the game they want to....PC/EU, StamSorc Main3 -
Minyassa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I think it's a nice idea, but the fact that people have gotten snarky about it shows that really there isn't any solution. They should've made PvE and PvP two separate games, and they dropped the ball, and it's a sub-par game experience because of it.2 -
Cirantille✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭To comparing NPCs with players, at least players log off after a while.
I don't see NPCs logging off or leaving the monster sets or gears unattended
2 -
Morgha_Kul✭✭✭✭✭
✭Morgha_Kul wrote: »Morgha_Kul wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »Conversely a PvP player has to play a lot more PvE than PvP to obtain the Tamriel Hero, Tamriel Master Adventurer, and Tamriel Skyshard Hunter achievements.
The difference is that there isn't anyone actively interfering with those efforts. A PvE player might NEVER get what he needs, as there will usually be someone deliberately stopping him.
And PvP'r may never get what he wants/needs because mobs and bosses thwart his every attempt. Good thing is both problems have a solution. Take a friend and get it done.
Really? You're equating NPCs to PC gankers? Mobs and bosses are in PvP zones as well. Again, to do a PvE activity, you need only concern yourself with the mobs and bosses. In Cyrodiil, you not only have to deal with the mobs, but you have to deal with players.
Most PvE players are going to be entirely unable to compete with someone who has built for PvP. Indeed, most PvE players won't even SEE the PvP players before they're already dead.
Really? You're equating NPCs to PC gankers? "
Yeah I am. Both can prevent a player from getting what they want. Doesn't matter that there isn't players also trying to prevent you from getting what you want. Either way you don't get what you want and either way the solution is get help.
And there are players that do PvP that will tell you they are denied joining a group based on the gear they don't have. So that is also player blocking player.
Honestly most the time players camping turn in spots are also PvE'rs hoping for a few easy kills. The real PvP'rs are off doing PvP things.
Point I made earlier still remains. Having PvE type activities in Cyrodiil helps bring new players into PvP. Some stick around and that is very good for the game.
"Having PvE type activities in Cyrodiil helps bring new players into PvP."
This is not true. It brings easy targets, which is what most PvP players seem to want.
[snip] Not one single NPC mob has ever blindsided me with a one hit ambush kill. Not once have I had to face NPC mobs ganging up in groups of 30 to gank me. Not once have I had to suffer mobs doing in excess of 100k dps.
[edited for baiting]
Edited by ZOS_Icy on July 5, 2021 6:05PMExploring Tamriel since 1994.1 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Morgha_Kul wrote: »Morgha_Kul wrote: »Morgha_Kul wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »Conversely a PvP player has to play a lot more PvE than PvP to obtain the Tamriel Hero, Tamriel Master Adventurer, and Tamriel Skyshard Hunter achievements.
The difference is that there isn't anyone actively interfering with those efforts. A PvE player might NEVER get what he needs, as there will usually be someone deliberately stopping him.
And PvP'r may never get what he wants/needs because mobs and bosses thwart his every attempt. Good thing is both problems have a solution. Take a friend and get it done.
Really? You're equating NPCs to PC gankers? Mobs and bosses are in PvP zones as well. Again, to do a PvE activity, you need only concern yourself with the mobs and bosses. In Cyrodiil, you not only have to deal with the mobs, but you have to deal with players.
Most PvE players are going to be entirely unable to compete with someone who has built for PvP. Indeed, most PvE players won't even SEE the PvP players before they're already dead.
Really? You're equating NPCs to PC gankers? "
Yeah I am. Both can prevent a player from getting what they want. Doesn't matter that there isn't players also trying to prevent you from getting what you want. Either way you don't get what you want and either way the solution is get help.
And there are players that do PvP that will tell you they are denied joining a group based on the gear they don't have. So that is also player blocking player.
Honestly most the time players camping turn in spots are also PvE'rs hoping for a few easy kills. The real PvP'rs are off doing PvP things.
Point I made earlier still remains. Having PvE type activities in Cyrodiil helps bring new players into PvP. Some stick around and that is very good for the game.
"Having PvE type activities in Cyrodiil helps bring new players into PvP."
This is not true. It brings easy targets, which is what most PvP players seem to want.
[snip] Not one single NPC mob has ever blindsided me with a one hit ambush kill. Not once have I had to face NPC mobs ganging up in groups of 30 to gank me. Not once have I had to suffer mobs doing in excess of 100k dps.
[snip]
You should play more of the harder PvE content if you don't think a PvE boss can one shot.
Max group size is 12 so I guess several groups "ganked" you. lol
But that may be the root of the problem, in PvP you have less control over the difficulty of the opponent, you can't pick normal or hard mode.
[edited to remove quote & for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on July 5, 2021 6:06PM3 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭cyclonus11 wrote: »
That is an entirely different issue and is a problem that needs fixed. Having to brave PvP land for a few skyshards to get an achievement is not a problem that needs fixed. It is a good thing for the game that something draws players to try PvP when the game is properly working.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."1 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Morgha_Kul wrote: »Morgha_Kul wrote: »Morgha_Kul wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »Conversely a PvP player has to play a lot more PvE than PvP to obtain the Tamriel Hero, Tamriel Master Adventurer, and Tamriel Skyshard Hunter achievements.
The difference is that there isn't anyone actively interfering with those efforts. A PvE player might NEVER get what he needs, as there will usually be someone deliberately stopping him.
And PvP'r may never get what he wants/needs because mobs and bosses thwart his every attempt. Good thing is both problems have a solution. Take a friend and get it done.
Really? You're equating NPCs to PC gankers? Mobs and bosses are in PvP zones as well. Again, to do a PvE activity, you need only concern yourself with the mobs and bosses. In Cyrodiil, you not only have to deal with the mobs, but you have to deal with players.
Most PvE players are going to be entirely unable to compete with someone who has built for PvP. Indeed, most PvE players won't even SEE the PvP players before they're already dead.
Really? You're equating NPCs to PC gankers? "
Yeah I am. Both can prevent a player from getting what they want. Doesn't matter that there isn't players also trying to prevent you from getting what you want. Either way you don't get what you want and either way the solution is get help.
And there are players that do PvP that will tell you they are denied joining a group based on the gear they don't have. So that is also player blocking player.
Honestly most the time players camping turn in spots are also PvE'rs hoping for a few easy kills. The real PvP'rs are off doing PvP things.
Point I made earlier still remains. Having PvE type activities in Cyrodiil helps bring new players into PvP. Some stick around and that is very good for the game.
"Having PvE type activities in Cyrodiil helps bring new players into PvP."
This is not true. It brings easy targets, which is what most PvP players seem to want.
[snip] Not one single NPC mob has ever blindsided me with a one hit ambush kill. Not once have I had to face NPC mobs ganging up in groups of 30 to gank me. Not once have I had to suffer mobs doing in excess of 100k dps.
You are still missing or ignoring my point. It doesn't matter how you are being prevented from reaching your goal. What matters is that you are being prevented from reaching your goal. Many really good PvP'rs don't do well in PvE. Without help they are not going to get their gear. Fun thing is there is nothing preventing you from also getting help when you are trying to accomplish things in Cyrodiil.
And I've taken a hit in trials way over 100k. The 100k doesn't matter though because 23k was going to kill me also.
You can get your achievements sneaking around avoiding other players. Eventually you can get what you want with no help. A player wanting trial gear to use in PvP is going to have to find eleven other people to help. Your adventure will be much easier than his. If you get friends and guild mates to help your adventure actually can go very quick.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on July 5, 2021 6:07PMand then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."4 -
StamPlar_1976✭✭✭✭Girl_Number8 wrote: »No reason to do that. You can simply wait for your color to dominate one of the campaigns, them get the skyshards rather easy.
Since you’re a PvEr, dying shouldn’t matter to you because you’re questing. Also, when your faction is dominate, you can easily revive at a keep close by any quest you’re doing.
The achievement requires you to go into a PvP zone. Imo it is smart move on ZOS’ part to give players an incentive to try different content.
So I am not seeing your problem really....
Hmmm, well if we are on the topic of forcing people to do different content then absolutely they should make the PvP ranks at least require some PvE content then! I mean I was just joking when I said EMP should require malestrom, but if you think that forcing people to do content they absolutely do not want to do is a brilliant marketing tactic, then why not make it so some of the PvP achievements require you to finish hard PvE content as well! Excellent idea. Everyone is forced to do everything now. Even if they really dont want to.
I'm all for it. I'm a big pvper with Flawless Conquerer. Thing is. Us pvpers have no problems going into pve to get what we want. And in my experience, the best pvers are pvpers. So go for it. We won't complain. But you'll still be on here begging ZOS to change the game for you cause you aren't willing to adapt.Edited by StamPlar_1976 on July 3, 2021 9:45PM2
