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QUESTS ARE JUST TOO EASY!
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alanmatillab16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭TheImperfect wrote: »Satisfied customer here, the rest of life is challenging enough. I like ESO as it is, there is challenge we're needed and relaxation too.
and exactly how would a difficulty slider where I can make the game more challenging but you can leave it on "relax" mode affect your gameplay?8 -
Grandchamp1989✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Over the years there have been so many suggestions how to make this work. Not that it would be our job to do so, I'm perfectly confident in ZOS' ability to develop something appropriate if only they acknowledged the demand.That's just the thing though - how exactly would this even be implemented in a fashion that would matter?
But, what the heck. Let's go through this.
Yes, a simple debuff like battle spirit would be the most sensible solution. Overworld mobs don't need special mechanics - they already have them. They are just easily ignored because they can be powered through. Doshia didn't have different mechanics back in the day, you just had to pay attention to them.Lets say they put in a difficulty toggle. Lets say you flip it on. What then?
Do you then do half damage and take 1.5x damage? How can overworld mobs have special mechanics for sophisticated difficulty without that affecting everyone else in the overworld as well?
As said, mobs wouldn't have to change at all.Lets say you're doing literally anything in the overworld areas with literally anyone that doesn't have Hard Mode toggled on. Do mobs get Hard Mode mechanics that can affect you but not them? Just how long would you feel super thrilled to be doing less damage against mobs that the Normal Moders are just burning through?
And don't worry how long I will be thrilled, I'll be just fine. Players of varying character level and ability have been playing together at least since One Tamriel, seeing someone stronger never bothered me one bit.
No, logically you wouldn't. What logic? What's the premise here?Logically, you'd have to be in your own layer of the area where everything is tuned for this Hard Mode Overworld business, and where only other people with Hard Mode turned on also zoned into instead of the regular Normal Mode maps.
Which is why you shouldn't create different overland instances based on difficulty. It's too much effort for too little gain, and just separates people further.Very little of this game's story content is solo instanced. They could totally put difficulty options on that content in the storylines, sure, but that's a puny little smidge of content compared to all the quests and questlines there are throughout all the zones that are most definitely not exclusively instanced.
It sounds more like you are arguing against your own assumptions than somebody else's suggestion.What you and others sharing your outlook want isn't particularly feasible because it literally wouldn't help anything, or it would effectively double the load on the servers to have to run twice as many iterations of every zone and public instance.
Funny, but no.All so you can feel like you were threatened by a Guar while you were walking to Balmorra.
ZOS just recently acknowledged again that many, many of their players are playing solo. So do I most of the time.
The problem is that outside of solo arenas, solo content in this game is so trivially easy that it makes all other game systems virtually superfluous. I'd love to hunt for gear, level my crafting skills and upgrade said gear, add better traits and enchantments, learn recipes, gain new skill lines, level my champion rank, deliberate good loadouts, etc. pp. But all of these progression systems are completely irrelevant when you can beat the new story boss with a few light attacks.
So, what we really ask for is for ZOS to improve the solo experience they acknowledge is a huge part of their players' preferd playstyle, by (optionally) elevating the difficulty from the level of a visual novel to something that incorporates other game systems, the way it used to do.
There's always someone in these threads who considers it some kind of "Gotcha!" when people point out that higher difficulty comes with better/different rewards. It's not the "whole point", it's just one point to good game design.Ken_Koerperich wrote: »Next thing that all these guys begging for harder haven't realized....
It's an MMORpg Open World, you are in game with, what, several hundred per zone???
So you want it harder, you're at the same Dolmen/Boss/Mob Farm Spot....
How does ZOS make it harder for you, yet keep it easy for others??
You don't, your slider won't do diddly squat, as you're in the same instance as the other 100 players right next to you....
That's why there are "Hard & Vet Dungeons", Trials, and what ever else...
Want "Harder" go where it's HARDER....
LMFAO!
Simple really, you all just don't like that answer....
Actually you are assuming the world must be made harder and ESO is actually backwards compared with other games. Mobs don't scale to you, you scale to them. You are the one that changes, they are the same difficulty at level 1, no CP that they are at level 50,3600 CP. And mobs are (mostly) the same everywhere in the game based on their class( normal, elite, etc.) You are the one that changed.
When you are new you are leveled up to the mobs level. You lose your "buffs" over time as you get closer to their level and after you reach their level you have no buffs. All of this is built in and the same system used to buff you from level 1 to CP 160 could be used to alter your difficulty. For example, the "slider" could be moved in the opposite direction so instead of getting a 20% buff to all stats you get a 20% penalty to all stats. This would make mobs more difficult for you but Ali might have his slider set on easy (OG difficulty), Ann might have hers set on Vet( 40% penalty) and Arnold might have his set on Elite (60% penalty and they might all be in the same group.
Ann might get a little better chance at more rare loot while Arnold might get an even better chance than Ann because they are playing at a higher difficulty.
And there it is. The whole point of all of this.
/thread
There's no hidden conspiracy to leech a few more coins of gold out of ZOS. That's just how games work.
Yeah. Why wouldn't you want more rewards for higher difficulty? What would the point even be to running at a higher difficulty if you didn't get anything to show for it?
This was never a discussion about more challenge. It was always, and will always, be a dishonestly presented discussion about trying to finagle more shinies out of the devs, whether those shinies come in the form of gear or titles or being catered to despite being an insignificant minority of the playerbase.
If it was about more shinies why would I hinder my own experience by finishing Alik'r quests naked with no championpoints?
Why would I run random vet instead of random normal daily to get the same amount of transmutes despite not needing any other gear?
For some of us overcoming a challenge can be its own reward.
When things become trivial and repetetive my mind starts to wander, I become anxious, restless and bored. I need to keep my mind busy and focusing on the challenge ahead, because it helps me stay focused and motivated.Edited by Grandchamp1989 on June 24, 2021 10:47AM6 -
I see people often commenting on threads like this justifying why they want the game to remain easy bc they enjoy it that way. However, you have to realise, when ESO came out. It was considerably more difficulty and actually required a brain to play and beat the bosses. Slowly the game undeniably catered to the casual solo RP player. Hence why systems have been very anti-player expression and more to do with immersion.. or ZOS's attempt at immersion.
So after amassing a core foundation of being difficult and immersive they completely changed it to be easier for newer players. And that mantra within ZOS became more and more prevalent to the point you can beat NEW main story bosses in a matter of seconds. Its all well and good the players wanting easier gameplay are satisfied but don't be egotistical to think that that's how the game should be played because YOU only enjoy it. If the game was dirt easy as it is now with 0 risk to then be ramped up so you can be one shot by a wolf in the wild, you'd justifiably would be triggered to and no doubt commenting on forums.
And the lack of innovation adds to that fire. The risk and combat being dirt easy then being followed by the animations being stale to then the lack of new weapons or new animations since 2014 all melds into one to make a unsatisfying experience for new and old players alike.
People don't want to be one shot by wolves, that's not what anyone's asking. We're asking to make the gameplay gratifying and immersive. make Bosses actual bosses. If you're okay paying 50 quid a pop for expansions only to get a average zone, bosses that die in minutes including literally the last boss of the expansions and a 3 hours mainquest with a crapton of unneeded exposition then i guess that's your standard.
Many MMOS tried the easy content, story and RP focus to only die. It's statically proven the popular games that employ competitive and engaging content tend to be the most popular and well received. From the combat to all the way to the gear drop systems. In ESO a lot of things are fundamentally flawed. Making things easy to attain at the cost of feeling like you earned it. If Zenimax wants to house players that log in for just fashionscrolls and an hour of questing but then logging out to get their gratification kick in other MMOS then i guess that's what they want but are fundamentally losing the ethos of what making an MMO an MMO means . I've seen many players finish the main quest of the literal expansion that's been hyped for half a year in a matter of hours only to log back out and not come back for a while as there's 0 incentive to remain logged in or spend more time in ESO.
5 -
fiender66✭✭✭✭This is a matter that resurfaces often. Let me propose some considerations.
1. Difficulty, to be really engaging, should mean some kind of mechanics added to overland "bosses" and mobs too. Else, if you made them only more hard to kill that will mean only longer combats. More a waste of time than any increasing fun, IMO. Imagine doing the first quests as a newborn build, giving tens of seconds to ALL mobs you meet...
2. To add those mechanics of point 1. devs had to perform a major programming overhaul of the game in its entirety, while making any hostile more hard only involves the change of some (general?) variables. BTW this holds too for nerf. It is rather easily implemented by changing some general variables and the result is the same: longer combats. So, beware of what you are asking for.
3. There is the story to consider, and to many it is more important, or just as important as the fighting. True, often it is not at Nobel prize level, but often is very, very good, even compared to many other MMO's. A more difficult fight would make more difficult to appreciate the storyline for newborn players, this for sure.
4. Overland is meant for building new chars or familiarise with the game. I am well beyond 1000CP and when I want to find difficult and engaging content, there is no problem2 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭There is the story to consider, and to many it is more important, or just as important as the fighting. True, often it is not at Nobel prize level, but often is very, very good, even compared to many other MMO's. A more difficult fight would make more difficult to appreciate the storyline for newborn players, this for sure.
Counter Consideration:
Making the story Too Easy makes it hard for more experienced players to be able to enjoy the story. We are paying customers too - Why should the story's gameplay only appeal to new players?
Also there are plenty of New Players who find Overland and Story combat boring.5 -
Grandchamp1989✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭This is a matter that resurfaces often. Let me propose some considerations.
1. Difficulty, to be really engaging, should mean some kind of mechanics added to overland "bosses" and mobs too. Else, if you made them only more hard to kill that will mean only longer combats. More a waste of time than any increasing fun, IMO. Imagine doing the first quests as a newborn build, giving tens of seconds to ALL mobs you meet...
2. To add those mechanics of point 1. devs had to perform a major programming overhaul of the game in its entirety, while making any hostile more hard only involves the change of some (general?) variables. BTW this holds too for nerf. It is rather easily implemented by changing some general variables and the result is the same: longer combats. So, beware of what you are asking for.
3. There is the story to consider, and to many it is more important, or just as important as the fighting. True, often it is not at Nobel prize level, but often is very, very good, even compared to many other MMO's. A more difficult fight would make more difficult to appreciate the storyline for newborn players, this for sure.
4. Overland is meant for building new chars or familiarise with the game. I am well beyond 1000CP and when I want to find difficult and engaging content, there is no problem
And everyone respect that.
An optional hardmode scroll next to important bosses in dungeons and quests would allow players to continue to play on easy or to try playing on hard.
I don't agree that they would have to re-program all the bosses.
Most bosses already have 2-3-4-5 mechanics implemented already - the problem is nobody sees them because they're dead in 5 seconds. If an optional hardmode scroll were added that gave the bosses more HP and damage maybe we could experience the mechanics as was intended before One-Tamriel.2 -
Chadak✭✭✭✭✭
Over the years there have been so many suggestions how to make this work. Not that it would be our job to do so, I'm perfectly confident in ZOS' ability to develop something appropriate if only they acknowledged the demand.That's just the thing though - how exactly would this even be implemented in a fashion that would matter?
But, what the heck. Let's go through this.
Yes, a simple debuff like battle spirit would be the most sensible solution. Overworld mobs don't need special mechanics - they already have them. They are just easily ignored because they can be powered through. Doshia didn't have different mechanics back in the day, you just had to pay attention to them.Lets say they put in a difficulty toggle. Lets say you flip it on. What then?
Do you then do half damage and take 1.5x damage? How can overworld mobs have special mechanics for sophisticated difficulty without that affecting everyone else in the overworld as well?
As said, mobs wouldn't have to change at all.Lets say you're doing literally anything in the overworld areas with literally anyone that doesn't have Hard Mode toggled on. Do mobs get Hard Mode mechanics that can affect you but not them? Just how long would you feel super thrilled to be doing less damage against mobs that the Normal Moders are just burning through?
And don't worry how long I will be thrilled, I'll be just fine. Players of varying character level and ability have been playing together at least since One Tamriel, seeing someone stronger never bothered me one bit.
No, logically you wouldn't. What logic? What's the premise here?Logically, you'd have to be in your own layer of the area where everything is tuned for this Hard Mode Overworld business, and where only other people with Hard Mode turned on also zoned into instead of the regular Normal Mode maps.
Which is why you shouldn't create different overland instances based on difficulty. It's too much effort for too little gain, and just separates people further.Very little of this game's story content is solo instanced. They could totally put difficulty options on that content in the storylines, sure, but that's a puny little smidge of content compared to all the quests and questlines there are throughout all the zones that are most definitely not exclusively instanced.
It sounds more like you are arguing against your own assumptions than somebody else's suggestion.What you and others sharing your outlook want isn't particularly feasible because it literally wouldn't help anything, or it would effectively double the load on the servers to have to run twice as many iterations of every zone and public instance.
Funny, but no.All so you can feel like you were threatened by a Guar while you were walking to Balmorra.
ZOS just recently acknowledged again that many, many of their players are playing solo. So do I most of the time.
The problem is that outside of solo arenas, solo content in this game is so trivially easy that it makes all other game systems virtually superfluous. I'd love to hunt for gear, level my crafting skills and upgrade said gear, add better traits and enchantments, learn recipes, gain new skill lines, level my champion rank, deliberate good loadouts, etc. pp. But all of these progression systems are completely irrelevant when you can beat the new story boss with a few light attacks.
So, what we really ask for is for ZOS to improve the solo experience they acknowledge is a huge part of their players' preferd playstyle, by (optionally) elevating the difficulty from the level of a visual novel to something that incorporates other game systems, the way it used to do.
There's always someone in these threads who considers it some kind of "Gotcha!" when people point out that higher difficulty comes with better/different rewards. It's not the "whole point", it's just one point to good game design.Ken_Koerperich wrote: »Next thing that all these guys begging for harder haven't realized....
It's an MMORpg Open World, you are in game with, what, several hundred per zone???
So you want it harder, you're at the same Dolmen/Boss/Mob Farm Spot....
How does ZOS make it harder for you, yet keep it easy for others??
You don't, your slider won't do diddly squat, as you're in the same instance as the other 100 players right next to you....
That's why there are "Hard & Vet Dungeons", Trials, and what ever else...
Want "Harder" go where it's HARDER....
LMFAO!
Simple really, you all just don't like that answer....
Actually you are assuming the world must be made harder and ESO is actually backwards compared with other games. Mobs don't scale to you, you scale to them. You are the one that changes, they are the same difficulty at level 1, no CP that they are at level 50,3600 CP. And mobs are (mostly) the same everywhere in the game based on their class( normal, elite, etc.) You are the one that changed.
When you are new you are leveled up to the mobs level. You lose your "buffs" over time as you get closer to their level and after you reach their level you have no buffs. All of this is built in and the same system used to buff you from level 1 to CP 160 could be used to alter your difficulty. For example, the "slider" could be moved in the opposite direction so instead of getting a 20% buff to all stats you get a 20% penalty to all stats. This would make mobs more difficult for you but Ali might have his slider set on easy (OG difficulty), Ann might have hers set on Vet( 40% penalty) and Arnold might have his set on Elite (60% penalty and they might all be in the same group.
Ann might get a little better chance at more rare loot while Arnold might get an even better chance than Ann because they are playing at a higher difficulty.
And there it is. The whole point of all of this.
/thread
There's no hidden conspiracy to leech a few more coins of gold out of ZOS. That's just how games work.
Yeah. Why wouldn't you want more rewards for higher difficulty? What would the point even be to running at a higher difficulty if you didn't get anything to show for it?
This was never a discussion about more challenge. It was always, and will always, be a dishonestly presented discussion about trying to finagle more shinies out of the devs, whether those shinies come in the form of gear or titles or being catered to despite being an insignificant minority of the playerbase.
No, that's your point of view, for more effort you want bigger rewards. However, there are people for whom the challenge and necessity of overcoming difficulties and then knowing that they have managed to do it is reward enough in itself. This is why many single player games have difficulty levels, this is why games like DarkSouls are so popular.
You measure other people by comparing them to yourself, and that's not the right approach.
Nope. I measure other people based on my collective experiences with other humans in the context of the circumstances at hand.
In this case, in the MMO space.
Single player games aren't shared spaces and don't typically require persistent server space or ongoing dev maintenance for different difficulty levels to be featured. Moreover, I know of no single player game in which multiple players concurrently play and have different difficulty settings unique to each of them within that shared space.
So, that comparison is dead in the water. On to the next.
Dark Souls is popular because it seems very difficult and offers a substantial sense of satisfaction and a feeling of cleverness for 'figuring it out', even though its just choreography in generally very tightly scripted boss fights. Having played all of the Dark Souls games to absolute death, I feel confident in saying that Dark Souls' greatest appeal is in its easily accessed learning curve that overcomes the difficulty by learning the right dance steps.
When you memorize the patterns, you can do full clears without ever even getting hit no matter the difficulty level, because the difficulty level doesn't fundamentally change the nature of the game - choreography puzzles.
Its rather well done for all that though, because the devs clearly understood how most people think and learn, and they made their game seem difficult to the average person...and very rewarding when the average person starts to unravel the dance steps and start to feel pretty pro. And then its on to the next choreography puzzle.
If you're someone that's particularly good at puzzles, the difficulty is an illusion and the struggle becomes one of persistence rather than frustration, because when you figure out how the systems can and cannot work, you can winnow it down from there into likelihoods of what will and won't be happening.
Followed through to its conclusions and Dark Souls is a fantastic series that offers people like me no replay value what so ever. I figured the puzzles out and the difficulty levels were nothing but differentials of tolerance for mistakes before tedium as a punishing element would be introduced.
Great games, especially if you're not that good with puzzles. They could keep most people busy for ages.
I'm rather good with puzzles, personally. I didn't find them that hard to figure out, and while I enjoyed the process of figuring them out, what I wound up enjoying most of all was trying to find, unlock and discover all the hidden tidbits of lore.
There's a decent story in the Dark Souls games, and they make you go hunting for it. I enjoyed that.
So, no, I really don't measure you all through a myopic lens of self. I don't have anything against the idea of some form of difficulty toggle or slider, at least as a concept in a vacuum.
Unfortunately, none of it exists in a vacuum and the whole situation is one of interconnected systems.
Why, it must be asked, has ZOS not yet implemented such a thing? If it were easy; if there were some manner of equitable solution that they felt was worth the money and dev resources to implement such a thing; would they not already have done so?
They had the wherewithal to rehash the whole game into One Tamriel and redesign half the systems to re-structure the whole gameplay experience and flow, but there's no difficulty toggle for overworld content.
Do you think there might just be some good reasons for that? Perhaps that it wouldn't be nearly as easy as some wish to believe, or perhaps even possible?
It doesn't seem likely to me that ZOS would withhold such a thing if they could implement it in a manner they felt was worth the effort. Or at all. It might not be as possible as some wish to believe.
I certainly don't know the limitations or exigencies of this variant of the Hero Engine. I don't expect anyone in this topic does.
What I do know is that ZOS is a company motivated by profit. If they're not doing it, it probably isn't something they estimate would be worth the resources to make it so. The return on that investment is not determined to be there to justify it.
3 -
xeNNNNN✭✭✭✭✭
✭In SWTOR for example, any froup of mobs takes longer to kill than a boss in this game. Farming gear just for trials it's not the way to keep you in a game. Please level up difficulty
Erm, no it really does not take longer in SWTOR. Having played it for years myself, unless you're running healer spec on your classes you can mow through them easily. If you're doing it with terrible gear, year it will take longer if you're doing it with proper gear for say a marauder using the rage spec, you'll crush them in seconds. Even more so on a sorcerer, you just force storm and proc spam.
If you're talking about flashpoints and swtors equivalent to raids then well yeah it does take longer but then with a proper group like most games, it doesnt take that long at all.
Sorry but that comparison you made doesn't really hold water.Ah, e-communities - the "pinnacle" of the internet............yeah, right.0 -
Nemo78✭✭✭These "too easy" threads...
I think it's clear that the vast majority of the players like the game as it is.
Just a few elitist players want it hard.
Why do you think that? The majority on these threads seem to want more difficulty options. I get that those are the very people likely to be drawn to these threads - but what basis do you use on your assumption that the vast majority like it as is?
I knew someone would question that.
It's not an assumption, there was a poll not long ago.
Elitists already have vet trials, not enough? Make them even harder, like in a game I used to play where we wiped for several months until we finally cleared it. I'm too old for that crap, these days I don't even touch normal trials.
2 -
dinokstrunz✭✭✭✭✭
✭There is the story to consider, and to many it is more important, or just as important as the fighting. True, often it is not at Nobel prize level, but often is very, very good, even compared to many other MMO's. A more difficult fight would make more difficult to appreciate the storyline for newborn players, this for sure.
Counter Consideration:
Making the story Too Easy makes it hard for more experienced players to be able to enjoy the story. We are paying customers too - Why should the story's gameplay only appeal to new players?
Also there are plenty of New Players who find Overland and Story combat boring.
Yeah I kind of agree with this, I recently managed to get some friends to play ESO after several years of nagging. All of them bowed out after around level 30, the quests were just too dull of an experience to continue and even as a new players they were just mowing down enemies like they were nothing. They didn't like the feel of the combat with the style of grind/questing they had to contend with. Personally I can't see ZoS really ever doing anything to enhance the overall player experience at all in this game as they seem content with they have going.7 -
Massacre_Wurm✭✭✭✭✭Many MMOS tried the easy content, story and RP focus to only die. It's statically proven the popular games that employ competitive and engaging content tend to be the most popular and well received.
What are you talking about ? In any MMO i ever played main story was the easiest part of the game so anyone in any gear could do it.
There are dungeons , raids , world bosses , arenas , etc for challenge. Not main story.
Edited by Massacre_Wurm on June 24, 2021 11:33AM3 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Viewsfrom6ix wrote: »Viewsfrom6ix wrote: »Ken_Koerperich wrote: »Next thing that all these guys begging for harder haven't realized....
It's an MMORpg Open World, you are in game with, what, several hundred per zone???
So you want it harder, you're at the same Dolmen/Boss/Mob Farm Spot....
How does ZOS make it harder for you, yet keep it easy for others??
You don't, your slider won't do diddly squat, as you're in the same instance as the other 100 players right next to you....
That's why there are "Hard & Vet Dungeons", Trials, and what ever else...
Want "Harder" go where it's HARDER....
LMFAO!
Simple really, you all just don't like that answer....
Most people here want optional harder story or overland content like normal and bet for dungeons and trials. So relax, you won't be affected.
That's just the thing though - how exactly would this even be implemented in a fashion that would matter?
Lets say they put in a difficulty toggle. Lets say you flip it on. What then?
Do you then do half damage and take 1.5x damage? How can overworld mobs have special mechanics for sophisticated difficulty without that affecting everyone else in the overworld as well?
Lets say you're doing literally anything in the overworld areas with literally anyone that doesn't have Hard Mode toggled on. Do mobs get Hard Mode mechanics that can affect you but not them? Just how long would you feel super thrilled to be doing less damage against mobs that the Normal Moders are just burning through?
Logically, you'd have to be in your own layer of the area where everything is tuned for this Hard Mode Overworld business, and where only other people with Hard Mode turned on also zoned into instead of the regular Normal Mode maps.
Very little of this game's story content is solo instanced. They could totally put difficulty options on that content in the storylines, sure, but that's a puny little smidge of content compared to all the quests and questlines there are throughout all the zones that are most definitely not exclusively instanced.
What you and others sharing your outlook want isn't particularly feasible because it literally wouldn't help anything, or it would effectively double the load on the servers to have to run twice as many iterations of every zone and public instance.
All so you can feel like you were threatened by a Guar while you were walking to Balmorra.
Simple just like you said. Overland would have two instances. Anyone enabled vet would load into the vet overland instance and vice versa.
Yes, it would double the load on their servers but that is just a matter of money to solve.
Just like any other software challenges, throw more time, people and money at it and it will be completed.
Also I never said I wanted it. Just merely explaining what most people want from what I observed. I barely do any PvE nowadays.
Honestly, it wouldn't put any more strain on the servers. Every single dungeon being run is based off one of two templates, either a normal template or a vet one, and the number of groups in said dungeon determines the server load, the same for overland zones. If say, 10 instances of one zone had 10% of the players who would want to be in the vet instance instead, those players would be lumped together and the remaining players would be divided up between the other 9 instances, resulting in the same number of zones being maintained and the same populations in each.
This is tech ZOS already has access to and is proficient with using, even some dungeons have gameplay alterations between normal and vet without any scroll activations, so replacing worthless abilities some mobs have (like the conjured bubble) while reducing the cooldown on some skills (like light attacks or mender heals) and add a slight bit of health and damage to give them some bite and those simple changes alone would go a long way without compromising anything from the regular zones.
Also, Iccotak, thank you for post 107, that perfectly captures all of the counterarguments so well.1 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭These "too easy" threads...
I think it's clear that the vast majority of the players like the game as it is.
Just a few elitist players want it hard.
Why do you think that? The majority on these threads seem to want more difficulty options. I get that those are the very people likely to be drawn to these threads - but what basis do you use on your assumption that the vast majority like it as is?
I knew someone would question that.
It's not an assumption, there was a poll not long ago.
Elitists already have vet trials, not enough? Make them even harder, like in a game I used to play where we wiped for several months until we finally cleared it. I'm too old for that crap, these days I don't even touch normal trials.
Ah, ok - fair enough..
Why would I want harder trials though? I'm not asking for the kind of stuff where you need to group, where you have to run the same content over and over to get the hang of it.. I hate trials. I'm too old (and too busy) for that crap!
I just want the fights to feel meaningful and not have the immersion completely destroyed by the big evil world-ending boss that whole nations are afraid of dropping in 2 seconds. AT LEAST let him live long enough to monalogue!Edited by Biro123 on June 24, 2021 12:24PMMinalan owes me a beer.
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Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.3 -
People in this thread acting like every other game doesn't have competent, compelling and hard bosses and even mobs and if ZOS makes combat harder this game is going to die or something. Big whoop, you need to use more of your brain to have gratifying gameplay? OMG the travesty!
Zenimax clearly chosen their audience, people looking for engaging content should sadly probably look elsewhere.4 -
Nemo78✭✭✭Why would I want harder trials though? I'm not asking for the kind of stuff where you need to group, where you have to run the same content over and over to get the hang of it.. I hate trials. I'm too old (and too busy) for that crap!
I just want the fights to feel meaningful and not have the immersion completely destroyed by the big evil world-ending boss that whole nations are afraid of dropping in 2 seconds. AT LEAST let him live long enough to monalogue!
I understand what you want, but either there is some misunderstanding or we have totally different experiences regarding world bosses.
I feel some world bosses are easy, others just kick my ass, but none them takes less then like 2 min to solo, which feels ok to me.
Now if you are talking about delves and public dungeons bosses, I have to agree they die way too fast...Edited by Nemo78 on June 24, 2021 12:37PM0 -
Alurria✭✭✭✭✭
✭A: Hey let's make a separate Veteran version of Overland and Story Boss encounters to make them more engaging
B: You just want more rewards for doing Veteran
A: Well how about No added reward - that would be part of making it challenging.
B: No one would play a harder version of Overland / Story with no reward incentive to play. Go play other activities for challenge
A: Well we would be incentivized by the FUN it would be to play - but ok let's scale the rewards from blue to purple. Maybe add an achievement for doing certain things on Veteran
B: See it always comes back to Reward - you guys just want more goodies. Go play other activities if you want better rewards.
A: Ok - how about just achievements for Cosmetics - no gameplay rewards.
B: That's still a reward and hardly anyone would play it for no gameplay rewards.
A: We don't care about the reward, we want Overland and Story to have better gameplay.
B: Story is for New Players - there are other hard things in the game to satisfy your desire for harder content
A: This is not about seeking challenge. This is about making the story a better experience for other skilled players that are not beginners. Also there are plenty of New Players who find Overland and Story combat boring.
B: Well I like it the way it is so leave it alone
A: That is why we are asking for a separate instance so then you can still play the way you like
B: That would split the player base!
A: The player base is already split, Overland is easy enough that hardly anyone plays together (especially now with companions) those who don't enjoy how things are right now just don't play it. New Players who don't care for the lackluster combat just leave to go play something else.
B: Well ZOS already did Hard Overland and it failed.
A: We are not asking for another Craglorn or for leveled zones. That doesn't mean we want things to be too easy..There is a GOOD compromise in there somewhere. It doesn't have to be the hardest thing but that doesn't mean it has to be braindead easy.
B: Then wear no gear and use 0-1 skill
A: that doesn't solve the problem - we've tried it
B: Yes it does
A: No it doesn't
B: This isn’t Dark Souls
A: We never said it was, but they’re has to be a better compromise between Beginner Zone difficulty vs Endgame.
B: If you want challenge then go play endgame
A: We aren't asking for endgame - we're asking that the story be made fun for people with above beginner skill level.
B: Story is for New Players!
A: Why? We are paying customers too - Why should the story's gameplay only appeal to new players?
B: Stop being an elitist!
A: Many of us play casually, that doesn't mean we want the questing experience to be braindead easy.
B: Oh so you don't play endgame - then this is really just about Rewards & Goodies without having to do endgame!
A: ......... 🤦Bad faith is a concept in negotiation theory whereby parties pretend to reason to reach settlement, but have no intention to do so, for example, one political party may pretend to negotiate, with no intention to compromise, for political effect.
There is no intent to understand or compromise on a solution.
"Our enjoyment matters more than your optional setting that has no effect on me"
and
"The only possible reason you have a different opinion is because you have a secret goal for loot... even if many people have said they don't care about the loot from story content"
The only reason it seems anyone is against this is because of either spite against some symbolic collective of "Elites" - even though many asking for this feature are casuals who just have the basic understanding of the game.
Or because of the idea that ZOS just cannot afford it and would not make something for only a "Minority" of players, even though they do that all the time.
eventually this fades as this cycle gets repeated with some variation again and again and again and again and again and again. etc. etc. etc.
Maybe one day ZOS will actually do something about what many consider to be a fatal flaw in the game...maybe then these threads will stop popping up
Have you considered the fatal flaw as you put it isn't with Zos but with what you want? This thread for one thing and past threads are never presented in a good light. Look at the topic title it's hyperbole, the exaggerations in many of these threads reaches incredulity quickly. Sorry I don't believe everything yahoo who says the soloed all world bosses. Most quests in this game are one and done. Once you do them you can't repeat them unless you plan on rolling many alts, is that the case. The problem here is deeper than you realize and it has to do with our human minds. One set of people find relaxation in doing no thinking because all day long they have been taxed at work/school. Another set of people find relaxation in solving hard things. In the gaming world we have separated ourselves with labels such as casual and hardcore. When it's actually how different people operate. These threads repeat the same tired tropes. I don't see a great need for this at all, overland story is meant to give you background not challenge, they do make challenging content that surprise has stories involved vet dungeons and yes trials. Oh and you get better rewards, so why would they sink more money into making a vet overland? Think about what you are asking and realize you are in the minority.5 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Why would I want harder trials though? I'm not asking for the kind of stuff where you need to group, where you have to run the same content over and over to get the hang of it.. I hate trials. I'm too old (and too busy) for that crap!
I just want the fights to feel meaningful and not have the immersion completely destroyed by the big evil world-ending boss that whole nations are afraid of dropping in 2 seconds. AT LEAST let him live long enough to monalogue!
I understand what you want, but either there is some misunderstanding or we have totally different experiences regarding world bosses.
I feel some world bosses are easy, others just kick my ass, but none them takes less then like 2 min to solo, which feels ok to me.
Now if you are talking about delves and public dungeons bosses, I have to agree they die way too fast...
I'm actually talking about quest bosses - those guys who are the main bad guy in the storyline quests - who drop even quicker than delve bosses. (Well, I'm talking about everything really - but with the aim of giving an engaging questline experience)Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.1 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭A: Hey let's make a separate Veteran version of Overland and Story Boss encounters to make them more engaging
B: You just want more rewards for doing Veteran
A: Well how about No added reward - that would be part of making it challenging.
B: No one would play a harder version of Overland / Story with no reward incentive to play. Go play other activities for challenge
A: Well we would be incentivized by the FUN it would be to play - but ok let's scale the rewards from blue to purple. Maybe add an achievement for doing certain things on Veteran
B: See it always comes back to Reward - you guys just want more goodies. Go play other activities if you want better rewards.
A: Ok - how about just achievements for Cosmetics - no gameplay rewards.
B: That's still a reward and hardly anyone would play it for no gameplay rewards.
A: We don't care about the reward, we want Overland and Story to have better gameplay.
B: Story is for New Players - there are other hard things in the game to satisfy your desire for harder content
A: This is not about seeking challenge. This is about making the story a better experience for other skilled players that are not beginners. Also there are plenty of New Players who find Overland and Story combat boring.
B: Well I like it the way it is so leave it alone
A: That is why we are asking for a separate instance so then you can still play the way you like
B: That would split the player base!
A: The player base is already split, Overland is easy enough that hardly anyone plays together (especially now with companions) those who don't enjoy how things are right now just don't play it. New Players who don't care for the lackluster combat just leave to go play something else.
B: Well ZOS already did Hard Overland and it failed.
A: We are not asking for another Craglorn or for leveled zones. That doesn't mean we want things to be too easy..There is a GOOD compromise in there somewhere. It doesn't have to be the hardest thing but that doesn't mean it has to be braindead easy.
B: Then wear no gear and use 0-1 skill
A: that doesn't solve the problem - we've tried it
B: Yes it does
A: No it doesn't
B: This isn’t Dark Souls
A: We never said it was, but they’re has to be a better compromise between Beginner Zone difficulty vs Endgame.
B: If you want challenge then go play endgame
A: We aren't asking for endgame - we're asking that the story be made fun for people with above beginner skill level.
B: Story is for New Players!
A: Why? We are paying customers too - Why should the story's gameplay only appeal to new players?
B: Stop being an elitist!
A: Many of us play casually, that doesn't mean we want the questing experience to be braindead easy.
B: Oh so you don't play endgame - then this is really just about Rewards & Goodies without having to do endgame!
A: ......... 🤦Bad faith is a concept in negotiation theory whereby parties pretend to reason to reach settlement, but have no intention to do so, for example, one political party may pretend to negotiate, with no intention to compromise, for political effect.
There is no intent to understand or compromise on a solution.
"Our enjoyment matters more than your optional setting that has no effect on me"
and
"The only possible reason you have a different opinion is because you have a secret goal for loot... even if many people have said they don't care about the loot from story content"
The only reason it seems anyone is against this is because of either spite against some symbolic collective of "Elites" - even though many asking for this feature are casuals who just have the basic understanding of the game.
Or because of the idea that ZOS just cannot afford it and would not make something for only a "Minority" of players, even though they do that all the time.
eventually this fades as this cycle gets repeated with some variation again and again and again and again and again and again. etc. etc. etc.
Maybe one day ZOS will actually do something about what many consider to be a fatal flaw in the game...maybe then these threads will stop popping up
Have you considered the fatal flaw as you put it isn't with Zos but with what you want? This thread for one thing and past threads are never presented in a good light. Look at the topic title it's hyperbole, the exaggerations in many of these threads reaches incredulity quickly. Sorry I don't believe everything yahoo who says the soloed all world bosses. Most quests in this game are one and done. Once you do them you can't repeat them unless you plan on rolling many alts, is that the case. The problem here is deeper than you realize and it has to do with our human minds. One set of people find relaxation in doing no thinking because all day long they have been taxed at work/school. Another set of people find relaxation in solving hard things. In the gaming world we have separated ourselves with labels such as casual and hardcore. When it's actually how different people operate. These threads repeat the same tired tropes. I don't see a great need for this at all, overland story is meant to give you background not challenge, they do make challenging content that surprise has stories involved vet dungeons and yes trials. Oh and you get better rewards, so why would they sink more money into making a vet overland? Think about what you are asking and realize you are in the minority.
Does being in the minority mean it shouldn't exist? PVP exists, Vet trials exist. Arenas exist and Battlegrounds exist. Fishing achievements exist. All minority activities.
The request harms no-one. The only reason I can see not to implement it is possible cost/effort(which of course none of us know how large/small that would be) - or perception that there isn't enough of an interest in it (yet there is ALWAYS a thread open on it - and there has been for years - so there is definitely interest).Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.7 -
Shantu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I don't mind the quests being easy. I just wish they weren't so dreadfully boring, shallow, and repetitive.4 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭A: Hey let's make a separate Veteran version of Overland and Story Boss encounters to make them more engaging
B: You just want more rewards for doing Veteran
A: Well how about No added reward - that would be part of making it challenging.
B: No one would play a harder version of Overland / Story with no reward incentive to play. Go play other activities for challenge
A: Well we would be incentivized by the FUN it would be to play - but ok let's scale the rewards from blue to purple. Maybe add an achievement for doing certain things on Veteran
B: See it always comes back to Reward - you guys just want more goodies. Go play other activities if you want better rewards.
A: Ok - how about just achievements for Cosmetics - no gameplay rewards.
B: That's still a reward and hardly anyone would play it for no gameplay rewards.
A: We don't care about the reward, we want Overland and Story to have better gameplay.
B: Story is for New Players - there are other hard things in the game to satisfy your desire for harder content
A: This is not about seeking challenge. This is about making the story a better experience for other skilled players that are not beginners. Also there are plenty of New Players who find Overland and Story combat boring.
B: Well I like it the way it is so leave it alone
A: That is why we are asking for a separate instance so then you can still play the way you like
B: That would split the player base!
A: The player base is already split, Overland is easy enough that hardly anyone plays together (especially now with companions) those who don't enjoy how things are right now just don't play it. New Players who don't care for the lackluster combat just leave to go play something else.
B: Well ZOS already did Hard Overland and it failed.
A: We are not asking for another Craglorn or for leveled zones. That doesn't mean we want things to be too easy..There is a GOOD compromise in there somewhere. It doesn't have to be the hardest thing but that doesn't mean it has to be braindead easy.
B: Then wear no gear and use 0-1 skill
A: that doesn't solve the problem - we've tried it
B: Yes it does
A: No it doesn't
B: This isn’t Dark Souls
A: We never said it was, but they’re has to be a better compromise between Beginner Zone difficulty vs Endgame.
B: If you want challenge then go play endgame
A: We aren't asking for endgame - we're asking that the story be made fun for people with above beginner skill level.
B: Story is for New Players!
A: Why? We are paying customers too - Why should the story's gameplay only appeal to new players?
B: Stop being an elitist!
A: Many of us play casually, that doesn't mean we want the questing experience to be braindead easy.
B: Oh so you don't play endgame - then this is really just about Rewards & Goodies without having to do endgame!
A: ......... 🤦Bad faith is a concept in negotiation theory whereby parties pretend to reason to reach settlement, but have no intention to do so, for example, one political party may pretend to negotiate, with no intention to compromise, for political effect.
There is no intent to understand or compromise on a solution.
"Our enjoyment matters more than your optional setting that has no effect on me"
and
"The only possible reason you have a different opinion is because you have a secret goal for loot... even if many people have said they don't care about the loot from story content"
The only reason it seems anyone is against this is because of either spite against some symbolic collective of "Elites" - even though many asking for this feature are casuals who just have the basic understanding of the game.
Or because of the idea that ZOS just cannot afford it and would not make something for only a "Minority" of players, even though they do that all the time.
eventually this fades as this cycle gets repeated with some variation again and again and again and again and again and again. etc. etc. etc.
Maybe one day ZOS will actually do something about what many consider to be a fatal flaw in the game...maybe then these threads will stop popping up
Have you considered the fatal flaw as you put it isn't with Zos but with what you want? This thread for one thing and past threads are never presented in a good light. Look at the topic title it's hyperbole, the exaggerations in many of these threads reaches incredulity quickly. Sorry I don't believe everything yahoo who says the soloed all world bosses. Most quests in this game are one and done. Once you do them you can't repeat them unless you plan on rolling many alts, is that the case. The problem here is deeper than you realize and it has to do with our human minds. One set of people find relaxation in doing no thinking because all day long they have been taxed at work/school. Another set of people find relaxation in solving hard things. In the gaming world we have separated ourselves with labels such as casual and hardcore. When it's actually how different people operate. These threads repeat the same tired tropes. I don't see a great need for this at all, overland story is meant to give you background not challenge, they do make challenging content that surprise has stories involved vet dungeons and yes trials. Oh and you get better rewards, so why would they sink more money into making a vet overland? Think about what you are asking and realize you are in the minority.
Repeating quest would require doing quest in the first place. I used to do every single quest I ran into, but pretty much every zone since summerset, with the exception of elsweyr, I've just avoided questing. The main quest are a slog, "do 7-8 quest and beat some nobody who was hyped up to be a threat" all the while having npcs harp on about how it's the end of the world. It gets old being treated like a beginner every zone since every zone is designed to be a beginners zone, and because of this enemies aren't allowed to have any sense of threat or presence. Next patch we'll be headed to the deadlands, Dagon's realm, and what are the odds overland will either be laughably tame to the point that a stroll through Glenumbra will pose more of a threat, or that it'll be empty like blackwood? Quest consist of more than just dialogue, and the gameplay lets it down. Please stop acting like adding veteran overland is some kind of horrendous idea when in fact it may actually tempt many long time players to actually engage with the majority of the content ZOS puts out, because as it is many of the people I run trials with only log in to do that, and some of them are tired of being told to stay in their corner.1 -
Folkb✭✭✭✭✭I like soloing dungeons. Its fun and immersive to me. Most mmo's don't let you do that.2
-
Auztinito✭✭✭You can buff overland when you buff the floor.
If they remove necessary nature of weaving and weapon swapping to use a rotation. Then we can see a buff to overland content. As it stands now, I can’t play the way I want or get items I want due to needing to weave and weapon swap. If you remove this need, you’ll definitely have your average players consider story/overland too easy.2 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I guess you weren't around pre One-Tamriel? That had challenging questing. Doshia was HARD. You could go to more difficult zones or stay in easier zones, tailoring the difficulty you played. Then there were also Vet versions of the whole base game (Cadwells silver)
I don't know if they were but I was. Once you finished your own faction's zones you moved on to another for Cadwell's Silver, but it was a harder version of those zones. Once those were complete you moved on to the last for Cadwell's Gold, which was even more difficult. You did not have the option to stay in easier zones if you wanted to progress.
Then they introduced Craglorn that pretty much required grouping to do anything. It did not go over well.
Players in general didn't enjoy the veteran zones or Craglorn and a lot of them, myself included, left because of it. One Tamriel is the best thing they ever did for player satisfaction.
ESO has a lot of casual players who would not be utilizing a more difficult overland. In my opinion the cost to implement a feature few would use isn't feasible.Edited by SilverBride on June 24, 2021 3:49PMPCNA6 -
Folkb✭✭✭✭✭
Hmm I don't recall being able to solo a dungeon on wow or swtor without being overleveled and mowing everything down and getting irrelevant gear.
In eso its not always as easy. For example banished cells 2 i couldn't solo the end boss. Although my character isn't super geared atm but I am at cp 600 and the gear I get can be useful depending on the dungeon.
So I don't think that comparable.1 -
amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Over the years there have been so many suggestions how to make this work. Not that it would be our job to do so, I'm perfectly confident in ZOS' ability to develop something appropriate if only they acknowledged the demand.That's just the thing though - how exactly would this even be implemented in a fashion that would matter?
But, what the heck. Let's go through this.
Yes, a simple debuff like battle spirit would be the most sensible solution. Overworld mobs don't need special mechanics - they already have them. They are just easily ignored because they can be powered through. Doshia didn't have different mechanics back in the day, you just had to pay attention to them.Lets say they put in a difficulty toggle. Lets say you flip it on. What then?
Do you then do half damage and take 1.5x damage? How can overworld mobs have special mechanics for sophisticated difficulty without that affecting everyone else in the overworld as well?
As said, mobs wouldn't have to change at all.Lets say you're doing literally anything in the overworld areas with literally anyone that doesn't have Hard Mode toggled on. Do mobs get Hard Mode mechanics that can affect you but not them? Just how long would you feel super thrilled to be doing less damage against mobs that the Normal Moders are just burning through?
And don't worry how long I will be thrilled, I'll be just fine. Players of varying character level and ability have been playing together at least since One Tamriel, seeing someone stronger never bothered me one bit.
No, logically you wouldn't. What logic? What's the premise here?Logically, you'd have to be in your own layer of the area where everything is tuned for this Hard Mode Overworld business, and where only other people with Hard Mode turned on also zoned into instead of the regular Normal Mode maps.
Which is why you shouldn't create different overland instances based on difficulty. It's too much effort for too little gain, and just separates people further.Very little of this game's story content is solo instanced. They could totally put difficulty options on that content in the storylines, sure, but that's a puny little smidge of content compared to all the quests and questlines there are throughout all the zones that are most definitely not exclusively instanced.
It sounds more like you are arguing against your own assumptions than somebody else's suggestion.What you and others sharing your outlook want isn't particularly feasible because it literally wouldn't help anything, or it would effectively double the load on the servers to have to run twice as many iterations of every zone and public instance.
Funny, but no.All so you can feel like you were threatened by a Guar while you were walking to Balmorra.
ZOS just recently acknowledged again that many, many of their players are playing solo. So do I most of the time.
The problem is that outside of solo arenas, solo content in this game is so trivially easy that it makes all other game systems virtually superfluous. I'd love to hunt for gear, level my crafting skills and upgrade said gear, add better traits and enchantments, learn recipes, gain new skill lines, level my champion rank, deliberate good loadouts, etc. pp. But all of these progression systems are completely irrelevant when you can beat the new story boss with a few light attacks.
So, what we really ask for is for ZOS to improve the solo experience they acknowledge is a huge part of their players' preferd playstyle, by (optionally) elevating the difficulty from the level of a visual novel to something that incorporates other game systems, the way it used to do.
There's always someone in these threads who considers it some kind of "Gotcha!" when people point out that higher difficulty comes with better/different rewards. It's not the "whole point", it's just one point to good game design.Ken_Koerperich wrote: »Next thing that all these guys begging for harder haven't realized....
It's an MMORpg Open World, you are in game with, what, several hundred per zone???
So you want it harder, you're at the same Dolmen/Boss/Mob Farm Spot....
How does ZOS make it harder for you, yet keep it easy for others??
You don't, your slider won't do diddly squat, as you're in the same instance as the other 100 players right next to you....
That's why there are "Hard & Vet Dungeons", Trials, and what ever else...
Want "Harder" go where it's HARDER....
LMFAO!
Simple really, you all just don't like that answer....
Actually you are assuming the world must be made harder and ESO is actually backwards compared with other games. Mobs don't scale to you, you scale to them. You are the one that changes, they are the same difficulty at level 1, no CP that they are at level 50,3600 CP. And mobs are (mostly) the same everywhere in the game based on their class( normal, elite, etc.) You are the one that changed.
When you are new you are leveled up to the mobs level. You lose your "buffs" over time as you get closer to their level and after you reach their level you have no buffs. All of this is built in and the same system used to buff you from level 1 to CP 160 could be used to alter your difficulty. For example, the "slider" could be moved in the opposite direction so instead of getting a 20% buff to all stats you get a 20% penalty to all stats. This would make mobs more difficult for you but Ali might have his slider set on easy (OG difficulty), Ann might have hers set on Vet( 40% penalty) and Arnold might have his set on Elite (60% penalty and they might all be in the same group.
Ann might get a little better chance at more rare loot while Arnold might get an even better chance than Ann because they are playing at a higher difficulty.
And there it is. The whole point of all of this.
/thread
There's no hidden conspiracy to leech a few more coins of gold out of ZOS. That's just how games work.
Yeah. Why wouldn't you want more rewards for higher difficulty? What would the point even be to running at a higher difficulty if you didn't get anything to show for it?
This was never a discussion about more challenge. It was always, and will always, be a dishonestly presented discussion about trying to finagle more shinies out of the devs, whether those shinies come in the form of gear or titles or being catered to despite being an insignificant minority of the playerbase.
And who cares if they do get "better rewards"?
Do you know what "better rewards" amounts to in this game?
A purple drop instead of a blue drop.
Do you know how easy it is to upgrade a blue drop to a purple drop without having to play through the harder content? Incredibly easy. I don't even have to *think* about upgrading any of my non-jewelry gear, because the mats are so plentiful, I don't even need the passive crafting upgrades to make it happen.
Outside of Mother's Sorrow from Deshaan, none of the overland sets are considered "end-game" tier gear. Some tanks may use Plague Doctor, also from Deshaan, and some casters may use Necropotence on a Sorc or something, but these are not sets that the "elitists" are clamoring for for their end-game trial characters.
So even with the logic of players just wanting better gear, the end-game "elitists" that you are trying to argue against, aren't going to be farming for overland gear for their end-game builds anyways, and even if they were, the only difference is a purple drop instead of a blue drop, which is so easy to upgrade normally regardless that it is irrelevant. Why do you think that even the highest level CP end-game players still do normal instances of dungeons when they are gear farming? Because if it's all about gear collection, even with the increased rewards, it is still more worthwhile to do the easier content, get the lower grade gear, and just upgrade it.
So your argument about this being just a gear grab is not based in any form of reality. Gear grabbers do normal instances, not vet instances, because it is easier to do easier content and upgrade from blue to purple than it is to do harder content to get the higher grade gear. The only gear people get from vet content that can't be gotten in normal content is 1.) monster helms from vet dungeons 2.) perfected gear from vet trials / arenas
And nobody, not 1 person, is asking for "Perfected Overland Set", and EVEN IF THEY DID there is only literally about 1 set in the entirety of ESO's overland that an upgraded "perfected" set would even matter for the types of players that would be focused on higher tier gear in the first place.8 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »I guess you weren't around pre One-Tamriel? That had challenging questing. Doshia was HARD. You could go to more difficult zones or stay in easier zones, tailoring the difficulty you played. Then there were also Vet versions of the whole base game (Cadwells silver)
I don't know if they were but I was. Once you finished your own faction's zones you moved on to another for Cadwell's Silver, but it was a harder version of those zones. Once those were complete you moved on to the last for Cadwell's Gold, which was even more difficult. You did not have the option to stay in easier zones if you wanted to progress.
Then they introduced Craglorn that pretty much required grouping to do anything. It did not go over well.
Players in general didn't enjoy the veteran zones or Craglorn and a lot of them, myself included, left because of it. One Tamriel is the best thing they ever did for player satisfaction.
ESO has a lot of casual players who would not be utilizing a more difficult overland. In my opinion the cost to implement a feature few would use isn't feasible.
The problem with that, though is that it was forced progression - needed to get your vet ranks - and on each character... I see no problem at all with providing more difficult overland as an option.
But nobody knows what the cost is - it could be trivial.. Adjustments to character strength are already in-place since 1T to scale characters for the content. It may be as simple as tweaking that one calculation based on a user setting - it maybe a lot harder. It isn't for us to know, and therefore not a good reason to base a personal decision on of whether or not you want certain content.
I am a software developer and get soo frustrated when users don't ask for things because they think they may be hard to do - when in reality it could be a half-hour job - while they are asking me to spend months on something else.. So lets just ask and let Zos decide what not to do when they determine the effort (of course feedback from them would be nice so we don't keep asking for the impossible stuff!)Minalan owes me a beer.
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alberichtano✭✭✭✭✭
✭Viewsfrom6ix wrote: »Viewsfrom6ix wrote: »Ken_Koerperich wrote: »Next thing that all these guys begging for harder haven't realized....
It's an MMORpg Open World, you are in game with, what, several hundred per zone???
So you want it harder, you're at the same Dolmen/Boss/Mob Farm Spot....
How does ZOS make it harder for you, yet keep it easy for others??
You don't, your slider won't do diddly squat, as you're in the same instance as the other 100 players right next to you....
That's why there are "Hard & Vet Dungeons", Trials, and what ever else...
Want "Harder" go where it's HARDER....
LMFAO!
Simple really, you all just don't like that answer....
Most people here want optional harder story or overland content like normal and bet for dungeons and trials. So relax, you won't be affected.
That's just the thing though - how exactly would this even be implemented in a fashion that would matter?
Lets say they put in a difficulty toggle. Lets say you flip it on. What then?
Do you then do half damage and take 1.5x damage? How can overworld mobs have special mechanics for sophisticated difficulty without that affecting everyone else in the overworld as well?
Lets say you're doing literally anything in the overworld areas with literally anyone that doesn't have Hard Mode toggled on. Do mobs get Hard Mode mechanics that can affect you but not them? Just how long would you feel super thrilled to be doing less damage against mobs that the Normal Moders are just burning through?
Logically, you'd have to be in your own layer of the area where everything is tuned for this Hard Mode Overworld business, and where only other people with Hard Mode turned on also zoned into instead of the regular Normal Mode maps.
Very little of this game's story content is solo instanced. They could totally put difficulty options on that content in the storylines, sure, but that's a puny little smidge of content compared to all the quests and questlines there are throughout all the zones that are most definitely not exclusively instanced.
What you and others sharing your outlook want isn't particularly feasible because it literally wouldn't help anything, or it would effectively double the load on the servers to have to run twice as many iterations of every zone and public instance.
All so you can feel like you were threatened by a Guar while you were walking to Balmorra.
Simple just like you said. Overland would have two instances. Anyone enabled vet would load into the vet overland instance and vice versa.
Yes, it would double the load on their servers but that is just a matter of money to solve.
Just like any other software challenges, throw more time, people and money at it and it will be completed.
Also I never said I wanted it. Just merely explaining what most people want from what I observed. I barely do any PvE nowadays.
And what profit-seeking company would throw time (=money), people (=money) and money at something that they would feel is an unnecessary luxury? I mean, unless you actually PAY for it.2 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The problem with that, though is that it was forced progression - needed to get your vet ranks - and on each character... I see no problem at all with providing more difficult overland as an option.
But nobody knows what the cost is - it could be trivial.. Adjustments to character strength are already in-place since 1T to scale characters for the content. It may be as simple as tweaking that one calculation based on a user setting - it maybe a lot harder. It isn't for us to know, and therefore not a good reason to base a personal decision on of whether or not you want certain content.
I am a software developer and get soo frustrated when users don't ask for things because they think they may be hard to do - when in reality it could be a half-hour job - while they are asking me to spend months on something else.. So lets just ask and let Zos decide what not to do when they determine the effort (of course feedback from them would be nice so we don't keep asking for the impossible stuff!)
It isn't likely that the cost would be trivial when you consider that everything would have to be duplicated. And the servers most likely couldn't handle the extra load so would have to be replaced.
Yes ZoS has the final say on whether or not this would be worth the effort.
PCNA2
This discussion has been closed.