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QUESTS ARE JUST TOO EASY!
-
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ken_Koerperich wrote: »Next thing that all these guys begging for harder haven't realized....
It's an MMORpg Open World, you are in game with, what, several hundred per zone???
So you want it harder, you're at the same Dolmen/Boss/Mob Farm Spot....
How does ZOS make it harder for you, yet keep it easy for others??
You don't, your slider won't do diddly squat, as you're in the same instance as the other 100 players right next to you....
That's why there are "Hard & Vet Dungeons", Trials, and what ever else...
Want "Harder" go where it's HARDER....
LMFAO!
Simple really, you all just don't like that answer....
Actually you are assuming the world must be made harder and ESO is actually backwards compared with other games. Mobs don't scale to you, you scale to them. You are the one that changes, they are the same difficulty at level 1, no CP that they are at level 50,3600 CP. And mobs are (mostly) the same everywhere in the game based on their class( normal, elite, etc.) You are the one that changed.
When you are new you are leveled up to the mobs level. You lose your "buffs" over time as you get closer to their level and after you reach their level you have no buffs. All of this is built in and the same system used to buff you from level 1 to CP 160 could be used to alter your difficulty. For example, the "slider" could be moved in the opposite direction so instead of getting a 20% buff to all stats you get a 20% penalty to all stats. This would make mobs more difficult for you but Ali might have his slider set on easy (OG difficulty), Ann might have hers set on Vet( 40% penalty) and Arnold might have his set on Elite (60% penalty and they might all be in the same group.
Ann might get a little better chance at more rare loot while Arnold might get an even better chance than Ann because they are playing at a higher difficulty.
And there it is. The whole point of all of this.
/thread
and other people that want it harder have disagreed with this idea - so no, it is not the point of the thread. The only reason someone would come to this conclusion is if they ignored what everyone else said.
People have had different ideas on how it should work. Let's not paint everyone with a broad brush, K5 -
Viewsfrom6ix✭✭✭✭✭Viewsfrom6ix wrote: »Ken_Koerperich wrote: »Next thing that all these guys begging for harder haven't realized....
It's an MMORpg Open World, you are in game with, what, several hundred per zone???
So you want it harder, you're at the same Dolmen/Boss/Mob Farm Spot....
How does ZOS make it harder for you, yet keep it easy for others??
You don't, your slider won't do diddly squat, as you're in the same instance as the other 100 players right next to you....
That's why there are "Hard & Vet Dungeons", Trials, and what ever else...
Want "Harder" go where it's HARDER....
LMFAO!
Simple really, you all just don't like that answer....
Most people here want optional harder story or overland content like normal and bet for dungeons and trials. So relax, you won't be affected.
That's just the thing though - how exactly would this even be implemented in a fashion that would matter?
Lets say they put in a difficulty toggle. Lets say you flip it on. What then?
Do you then do half damage and take 1.5x damage? How can overworld mobs have special mechanics for sophisticated difficulty without that affecting everyone else in the overworld as well?
Lets say you're doing literally anything in the overworld areas with literally anyone that doesn't have Hard Mode toggled on. Do mobs get Hard Mode mechanics that can affect you but not them? Just how long would you feel super thrilled to be doing less damage against mobs that the Normal Moders are just burning through?
Logically, you'd have to be in your own layer of the area where everything is tuned for this Hard Mode Overworld business, and where only other people with Hard Mode turned on also zoned into instead of the regular Normal Mode maps.
Very little of this game's story content is solo instanced. They could totally put difficulty options on that content in the storylines, sure, but that's a puny little smidge of content compared to all the quests and questlines there are throughout all the zones that are most definitely not exclusively instanced.
What you and others sharing your outlook want isn't particularly feasible because it literally wouldn't help anything, or it would effectively double the load on the servers to have to run twice as many iterations of every zone and public instance.
All so you can feel like you were threatened by a Guar while you were walking to Balmorra.
Simple just like you said. Overland would have two instances. Anyone enabled vet would load into the vet overland instance and vice versa.
Yes, it would double the load on their servers but that is just a matter of money to solve.
Just like any other software challenges, throw more time, people and money at it and it will be completed.
Also I never said I wanted it. Just merely explaining what most people want from what I observed. I barely do any PvE nowadays.Edited by Viewsfrom6ix on June 24, 2021 3:56AM0 -
Viewsfrom6ix✭✭✭✭✭Ken_Koerperich wrote: »Viewsfrom6ix wrote: »Ken_Koerperich wrote: »Next thing that all these guys begging for harder haven't realized....
It's an MMORpg Open World, you are in game with, what, several hundred per zone???
So you want it harder, you're at the same Dolmen/Boss/Mob Farm Spot....
How does ZOS make it harder for you, yet keep it easy for others??
You don't, your slider won't do diddly squat, as you're in the same instance as the other 100 players right next to you....
That's why there are "Hard & Vet Dungeons", Trials, and what ever else...
Want "Harder" go where it's HARDER....
LMFAO!
Simple really, you all just don't like that answer....
Most people here want optional harder story or overland content like normal and bet for dungeons and trials. So relax, you won't be affected.
That's just the thing though - how exactly would this even be implemented in a fashion that would matter?
Lets say they put in a difficulty toggle. Lets say you flip it on. What then?
Do you then do half damage and take 1.5x damage? How can overworld mobs have special mechanics for sophisticated difficulty without that affecting everyone else in the overworld as well?
Lets say you're doing literally anything in the overworld areas with literally anyone that doesn't have Hard Mode toggled on. Do mobs get Hard Mode mechanics that can affect you but not them? Just how long would you feel super thrilled to be doing less damage against mobs that the Normal Moders are just burning through?
Logically, you'd have to be in your own layer of the area where everything is tuned for this Hard Mode Overworld business, and where only other people with Hard Mode turned on also zoned into instead of the regular Normal Mode maps.
Very little of this game's story content is solo instanced. They could totally put difficulty options on that content in the storylines, sure, but that's a puny little smidge of content compared to all the quests and questlines there are throughout all the zones that are most definitely not exclusively instanced.
What you and others sharing your outlook want isn't particularly feasible because it literally wouldn't help anything, or it would effectively double the load on the servers to have to run twice as many iterations of every zone and public instance.
All so you can feel like you were threatened by a Guar while you were walking to Balmorra.
Thanks!
You explained better than I did...
Let's see how many "bash" you for it...
ROFL!
Take whether or not it is feasible out of the equation. You don't want other players to have an optional vet overland content when the current overland difficulty will be untouched?
3 -
I'd have to agree there, haha. It's pretty unfathomable to me that there are people out there who want to play a game with no difficulty whatsoever. I guess I just never will get it. I've watched my SO play enough games where they lose it if something is mildly harder than they anticipated (talk about zero frustration tolerance) and will immediately put the game on easy mode so those kinds of players definitely exist. I have no idea what exactly they find fun when they play like that... but I'm also the sort of person who puts things on the hardest difficulty I can manage because I enjoy the adrenaline rush of almost dying and the challenge of having to try things multiple times before succeeding.
To be fair though, for people who like that same kind of gameplay, you can sort of replicate it on your own in ESO. At one point, I made a new character that was more flavor than build - the sort I'd play in an actual RPG, think ice-magic dual wield / SnS trekking around in first person - and it was actually quite fun. If you play suboptimally with whatever build restrictions match the character you want to play, you can make things much more fun. It was also pretty easy to have a tank loadout for normal dungeons too.
I mean, handicapping yourself is sort of like playing on a harder difficulty... but I think the problem is it isn't quite the same. On games with actual harder difficulties your gameplay challenge is essentially, "How do I need to play in order to beat something this hard?" which is a lot different than "What kind of suboptimal build do I need to create in order to artificially inflate the difficulty?"2 -
I wish the writing was better. Well mainly the quest design part of it. I think they should design them with more player agency involved and dialogue options. As a kind of a newer player since last year I want to relax and enjoy the quests, but I noticed there is repeating format and it gets kind of boring being the fetcher, collector, and delver with no personality. Just end up skipping through like everyone else seems too.
Agreed. There are plenty of games out there that are narrative driven whose fun factor are not reliant on difficulty, and they all involve ... you know, in depth characterization, choices that matter and a deeper story. ESO's story is too linear and shallow to get away with relying on that angle as their "fun factor" rather than gameplay difficulty, which is why single player overland PvE was by far my least favorite part of this game, in spite of being a huge elderscrolls fan.1 -
Chadak✭✭✭✭✭Ken_Koerperich wrote: »Next thing that all these guys begging for harder haven't realized....
It's an MMORpg Open World, you are in game with, what, several hundred per zone???
So you want it harder, you're at the same Dolmen/Boss/Mob Farm Spot....
How does ZOS make it harder for you, yet keep it easy for others??
You don't, your slider won't do diddly squat, as you're in the same instance as the other 100 players right next to you....
That's why there are "Hard & Vet Dungeons", Trials, and what ever else...
Want "Harder" go where it's HARDER....
LMFAO!
Simple really, you all just don't like that answer....
Actually you are assuming the world must be made harder and ESO is actually backwards compared with other games. Mobs don't scale to you, you scale to them. You are the one that changes, they are the same difficulty at level 1, no CP that they are at level 50,3600 CP. And mobs are (mostly) the same everywhere in the game based on their class( normal, elite, etc.) You are the one that changed.
When you are new you are leveled up to the mobs level. You lose your "buffs" over time as you get closer to their level and after you reach their level you have no buffs. All of this is built in and the same system used to buff you from level 1 to CP 160 could be used to alter your difficulty. For example, the "slider" could be moved in the opposite direction so instead of getting a 20% buff to all stats you get a 20% penalty to all stats. This would make mobs more difficult for you but Ali might have his slider set on easy (OG difficulty), Ann might have hers set on Vet( 40% penalty) and Arnold might have his set on Elite (60% penalty and they might all be in the same group.
Ann might get a little better chance at more rare loot while Arnold might get an even better chance than Ann because they are playing at a higher difficulty.
And there it is. The whole point of all of this.
/thread
and other people that want it harder have disagreed with this idea - so no, it is not the point of the thread. The only reason someone would come to this conclusion is if they ignored what everyone else said.
People have had different ideas on how it should work. Let's not paint everyone with a broad brush, K
And yet, somehow, despite your assertions, it always comes back...to this. This one particular thing.
Next to nobody would use a Hard Mode toggle if there weren't greater incentives for doing so, and even if the toggle-wanting sorts got their wish, the first thing we'd all be seeing roughly five minutes afterward is 'Those of us that play on Hard Mode should get better rewards!'
This isn't just an issue of extremely predictable moving goalposts - its expecting all of us to be so credulous and vacuous that we'd actually believe such things as you're claiming.
There is no reality in which human nature follows some other path. People do harder content because they want greater rewards, whether that comes in the form of gear, prestige, exclusive skins, achievements - all of the above.
Take those incentives away from, say, Vet dungeons and Vet trials...and watch pretty much nobody ever do them ever again.
Do you seriously think that people would ever do Vet Maelstrom if there weren't Perfected Malestrom weapons to be had or leaderboard ego fluff to shoot for? Incentives don't just matter - they're the be-all, end-all of why anyone does pretty much anything difficult at all, in game, in life - period.
So, the whole very noble-sounding premise that there's just some deluge of people that really-for-realsies only want more challenge and would be totally happy without greater incentives to entice and justify it sounds a lot to me like nonsense.
This will always be a discussion about Moar Harder for Moar Shinies no matter how veiled that foundational fact is being today. It was that the entire time, every time.10 -
six2fall✭✭✭✭Considering the massive grind this game is I gladly take the easy questing. When I want a challenge there is vet dungeons or trials5 -
TheImperfect✭✭✭✭✭
✭Satisfied customer here, the rest of life is challenging enough. I like ESO as it is, there is challenge we're needed and relaxation too.5 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ken_Koerperich wrote: »Next thing that all these guys begging for harder haven't realized....
It's an MMORpg Open World, you are in game with, what, several hundred per zone???
So you want it harder, you're at the same Dolmen/Boss/Mob Farm Spot....
How does ZOS make it harder for you, yet keep it easy for others??
You don't, your slider won't do diddly squat, as you're in the same instance as the other 100 players right next to you....
That's why there are "Hard & Vet Dungeons", Trials, and what ever else...
Want "Harder" go where it's HARDER....
LMFAO!
Simple really, you all just don't like that answer....
Actually you are assuming the world must be made harder and ESO is actually backwards compared with other games. Mobs don't scale to you, you scale to them. You are the one that changes, they are the same difficulty at level 1, no CP that they are at level 50,3600 CP. And mobs are (mostly) the same everywhere in the game based on their class( normal, elite, etc.) You are the one that changed.
When you are new you are leveled up to the mobs level. You lose your "buffs" over time as you get closer to their level and after you reach their level you have no buffs. All of this is built in and the same system used to buff you from level 1 to CP 160 could be used to alter your difficulty. For example, the "slider" could be moved in the opposite direction so instead of getting a 20% buff to all stats you get a 20% penalty to all stats. This would make mobs more difficult for you but Ali might have his slider set on easy (OG difficulty), Ann might have hers set on Vet( 40% penalty) and Arnold might have his set on Elite (60% penalty and they might all be in the same group.
Ann might get a little better chance at more rare loot while Arnold might get an even better chance than Ann because they are playing at a higher difficulty.
And there it is. The whole point of all of this.
/thread
and other people that want it harder have disagreed with this idea - so no, it is not the point of the thread. The only reason someone would come to this conclusion is if they ignored what everyone else said.
People have had different ideas on how it should work. Let's not paint everyone with a broad brush, K
And yet, somehow, despite your assertions, it always comes back...to this. This one particular thing.
Snip continued
Ok - and it also always comes back to the fact that the Overland combat / Story Boss fights are boring to any player with bare minimum knowledge of gameplay.
You can say that reward is as aspect for some people but I disagree that it is "The Foundation" because I know that is not the case for me and many others here.
Sure, the idea of rewards always gets brought up. This is because all developer-made-activities are centered around rewards, so when players propose another game mode they tend to propose rewards that could come with it. This is generally for the goal to make the hypothetical activity fit with how the rest of the game operates.
The developers also tend to put in rewards to maximize participation in the whole player base.
With that said; most people that I see advocating for this, including myself, do not care about the reward. We are just tired of overland and/or story content have very easy & lackluster combat. We want to play engaging stories AND engaging gameplay together. I play casual and like to relax but I don't want to be bored.
No one would do Vet Dungeons & Vet Trials if there was no reward? Yeah, no one would do the much harder version of a repeatable group activity that is designed to be farmed if it had no increased reward - but we are talking about questing here. Story content that can only be done once, and it's not hard for the player to upgrade a blue zone item to a purple item.
You say no one would play it without incentive? I think there are quite a few who would play it without the reward. Not as many as normal - but more than you would think as many have expressed that very desire.
(in WoW classic the rewards are definitely lower while questing is harder yet it is arguably as popular as retail, but that's a separate game)
In the past, I tried to tackle this by proposing achievements as a compromise. No purple drops, nothing with improved stats, just cosmetic rewards like a title or color you could earn.
Some people were ok with that - others weren't.
Frankly I am tired of the debate and I have to agree with what someone else said in this thread: "Getting better loot kind of defeats the object of having a challenging experience."
I say no reward - if there has to be one than put in an achievement - but there should NOT be any increase in gold or quality of drops.
and yeah I would totally play it and I am tired of being told I have some kind of ulterior motive about it.
EDIT: TES games had difficulty settings that had no increased reward, I think that would work fine for general overland & questing in ESO
edited for spellingEdited by Iccotak on June 24, 2021 6:09AM4 -
Ken_Koerperich wrote: »Next thing that all these guys begging for harder haven't realized....
It's an MMORpg Open World, you are in game with, what, several hundred per zone???
So you want it harder, you're at the same Dolmen/Boss/Mob Farm Spot....
How does ZOS make it harder for you, yet keep it easy for others??
You don't, your slider won't do diddly squat, as you're in the same instance as the other 100 players right next to you....
That's why there are "Hard & Vet Dungeons", Trials, and what ever else...
Want "Harder" go where it's HARDER....
LMFAO!
Simple really, you all just don't like that answer....
Actually you are assuming the world must be made harder and ESO is actually backwards compared with other games. Mobs don't scale to you, you scale to them. You are the one that changes, they are the same difficulty at level 1, no CP that they are at level 50,3600 CP. And mobs are (mostly) the same everywhere in the game based on their class( normal, elite, etc.) You are the one that changed.
When you are new you are leveled up to the mobs level. You lose your "buffs" over time as you get closer to their level and after you reach their level you have no buffs. All of this is built in and the same system used to buff you from level 1 to CP 160 could be used to alter your difficulty. For example, the "slider" could be moved in the opposite direction so instead of getting a 20% buff to all stats you get a 20% penalty to all stats. This would make mobs more difficult for you but Ali might have his slider set on easy (OG difficulty), Ann might have hers set on Vet( 40% penalty) and Arnold might have his set on Elite (60% penalty and they might all be in the same group.
Ann might get a little better chance at more rare loot while Arnold might get an even better chance than Ann because they are playing at a higher difficulty.
And there it is. The whole point of all of this.
/thread
and other people that want it harder have disagreed with this idea - so no, it is not the point of the thread. The only reason someone would come to this conclusion is if they ignored what everyone else said.
People have had different ideas on how it should work. Let's not paint everyone with a broad brush, K
And yet, somehow, despite your assertions, it always comes back...to this. This one particular thing.
Next to nobody would use a Hard Mode toggle if there weren't greater incentives for doing so, and even if the toggle-wanting sorts got their wish, the first thing we'd all be seeing roughly five minutes afterward is 'Those of us that play on Hard Mode should get better rewards!'
This isn't just an issue of extremely predictable moving goalposts - its expecting all of us to be so credulous and vacuous that we'd actually believe such things as you're claiming.
There is no reality in which human nature follows some other path. People do harder content because they want greater rewards, whether that comes in the form of gear, prestige, exclusive skins, achievements - all of the above.
Take those incentives away from, say, Vet dungeons and Vet trials...and watch pretty much nobody ever do them ever again.
Do you seriously think that people would ever do Vet Maelstrom if there weren't Perfected Malestrom weapons to be had or leaderboard ego fluff to shoot for? Incentives don't just matter - they're the be-all, end-all of why anyone does pretty much anything difficult at all, in game, in life - period.
So, the whole very noble-sounding premise that there's just some deluge of people that really-for-realsies only want more challenge and would be totally happy without greater incentives to entice and justify it sounds a lot to me like nonsense.
This will always be a discussion about Moar Harder for Moar Shinies no matter how veiled that foundational fact is being today. It was that the entire time, every time.
I don’t play harder difficulties for more rewards, so there’s one data point. I get nothing at all for playing Skyrim on Legendary and with combat mods other than the game lasting longer and being more engaging until I am inevitably overpowered. There’s a reason I restart and rarely finish play throughout and there’s a reason I ran around purposefully handicapped doing overland story quests so I could actually play without being bored.
It’s not us trying to be noble sounding. Enjoying harder content also doesn’t mean I think I’m better at games either - my SO is perfectly capable of playing and beating the same difficulty, they just don’t enjoy it because it frustrates them because we play games for different reasons.
Even in ESO I ran vets over normal because they are way more fun. The drops are the same and I had gotten every shoulder/head monster set imaginable a long time ago so as far as I was concerned the rewards for harder content was never any different. God nMA was so boring compared to vMA too! So much time waiting between rounds it’s not like normal was even that much faster.Edited by AuraoftheAzureSea on June 24, 2021 8:19AM4 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
And yet, somehow, despite your assertions, it always comes back...to this. This one particular thing.
Next to nobody would use a Hard Mode toggle if there weren't greater incentives for doing so, and even if the toggle-wanting sorts got their wish, the first thing we'd all be seeing roughly five minutes afterward is 'Those of us that play on Hard Mode should get better rewards!'
I would. I mean what better rewards could there be for overland? Purple drops instead of blue? I mean think about this for a bit. Who would play hard overland? I already explained when I would:
1. When playing a new character. (Note I don't say levelling. Currently I consider it levelling because you just rush thru the grind as quickly as possible - but if it was more difficult, I would need to actually 'play' it). What is the use of purple level 25 rewards? If anything, that better loot would make it easier - which defeats the object.
2. When playing a newly released zone with my main. Here I may be grinding for a new gear set - but again - if I get purple rather than blue, it would be nice I guess - but a minor nice. Long-term players have enough mats/cash to upgrade any blues they want to use easily anyway..
Better loot doesn't matter.
But even if better loot was a factor - how would it affect those who do it on an easier setting? They won't lose anything. I find it an odd view to think that someone doing more difficult content shouldn't get better rewards in an MMO *shrug*. Personally, I don't think it really matters either way.
And again, nobody is asking for it to be VMA difficulty. That is intentionally really difficult endgame content that you need to repeat many many times until you learn it (and that should give a reward). Overland questing should never be that - but there *should* be an option for it to provide some risk of dying.Edited by Biro123 on June 24, 2021 9:00AMMinalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.2 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Viewsfrom6ix wrote: »
Simple just like you said. Overland would have two instances. Anyone enabled vet would load into the vet overland instance and vice versa.
Yes, it would double the load on their servers but that is just a matter of money to solve.
Just like any other software challenges, throw more time, people and money at it and it will be completed.
Also I never said I wanted it. Just merely explaining what most people want from what I observed. I barely do any PvE nowadays.
To be honest, I think I'd rather have the difficulty affect my character - and we all play in the same instances (and tbf it fits better with the one Tamriel ideal, which I think Zos would more likely go with).
I mean yeah, it may be a bit jarring running into people who 1-shot standard mobs that you need to hit 5/6 times. But really, when questing, how often do you run into someone else whacking the same boss? For newly released zones - quite a bit I guess, but doing old content its pretty rare. But then again, there are completely new players who take 5/6 hits to down a mob and they regularly see experienced people rush in and one-shot stuff. Must be fairly jarring for them currently..
I only mostly see this where people are farming delve/world bosses or dolmens for loot.
But this isn't about difficulty for farming - its about questing difficulty - to make the story feel engaging.Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.1 -
Chadak✭✭✭✭✭AuraoftheAzureSea wrote: »Ken_Koerperich wrote: »Next thing that all these guys begging for harder haven't realized....
It's an MMORpg Open World, you are in game with, what, several hundred per zone???
So you want it harder, you're at the same Dolmen/Boss/Mob Farm Spot....
How does ZOS make it harder for you, yet keep it easy for others??
You don't, your slider won't do diddly squat, as you're in the same instance as the other 100 players right next to you....
That's why there are "Hard & Vet Dungeons", Trials, and what ever else...
Want "Harder" go where it's HARDER....
LMFAO!
Simple really, you all just don't like that answer....
Actually you are assuming the world must be made harder and ESO is actually backwards compared with other games. Mobs don't scale to you, you scale to them. You are the one that changes, they are the same difficulty at level 1, no CP that they are at level 50,3600 CP. And mobs are (mostly) the same everywhere in the game based on their class( normal, elite, etc.) You are the one that changed.
When you are new you are leveled up to the mobs level. You lose your "buffs" over time as you get closer to their level and after you reach their level you have no buffs. All of this is built in and the same system used to buff you from level 1 to CP 160 could be used to alter your difficulty. For example, the "slider" could be moved in the opposite direction so instead of getting a 20% buff to all stats you get a 20% penalty to all stats. This would make mobs more difficult for you but Ali might have his slider set on easy (OG difficulty), Ann might have hers set on Vet( 40% penalty) and Arnold might have his set on Elite (60% penalty and they might all be in the same group.
Ann might get a little better chance at more rare loot while Arnold might get an even better chance than Ann because they are playing at a higher difficulty.
And there it is. The whole point of all of this.
/thread
and other people that want it harder have disagreed with this idea - so no, it is not the point of the thread. The only reason someone would come to this conclusion is if they ignored what everyone else said.
People have had different ideas on how it should work. Let's not paint everyone with a broad brush, K
And yet, somehow, despite your assertions, it always comes back...to this. This one particular thing.
Next to nobody would use a Hard Mode toggle if there weren't greater incentives for doing so, and even if the toggle-wanting sorts got their wish, the first thing we'd all be seeing roughly five minutes afterward is 'Those of us that play on Hard Mode should get better rewards!'
This isn't just an issue of extremely predictable moving goalposts - its expecting all of us to be so credulous and vacuous that we'd actually believe such things as you're claiming.
There is no reality in which human nature follows some other path. People do harder content because they want greater rewards, whether that comes in the form of gear, prestige, exclusive skins, achievements - all of the above.
Take those incentives away from, say, Vet dungeons and Vet trials...and watch pretty much nobody ever do them ever again.
Do you seriously think that people would ever do Vet Maelstrom if there weren't Perfected Malestrom weapons to be had or leaderboard ego fluff to shoot for? Incentives don't just matter - they're the be-all, end-all of why anyone does pretty much anything difficult at all, in game, in life - period.
So, the whole very noble-sounding premise that there's just some deluge of people that really-for-realsies only want more challenge and would be totally happy without greater incentives to entice and justify it sounds a lot to me like nonsense.
This will always be a discussion about Moar Harder for Moar Shinies no matter how veiled that foundational fact is being today. It was that the entire time, every time.
I don’t play harder difficulties for more rewards, so there’s one data point. I get nothing at all for playing Skyrim on Legendary and with combat mods other than the game lasting longer and being more engaging until I am inevitably overpowered. There’s a reason I restart and rarely finish play throughout and there’s a reason I ran around purposefully handicapped doing overland story quests so I could actually play without being bored.
It’s not us trying to be noble sounding. Enjoying harder content also doesn’t mean I think I’m better at games either - my SO is perfectly capable of playing and beating the same difficulty, they just don’t enjoy it because it frustrates them because we play games for different reasons.
Even in ESO I ran vets over normal because they are way more fun. The drops are the same and I had gotten every shoulder/head monster set imaginable a long time ago so as far as I was concerned the rewards for harder content was never any different. God nMA was so boring compared to vMA too! So much time waiting between rounds it’s not like normal was even that much faster.
And yet, I give you...the entirety of human history as accumulated evidence that, in overwhelmingly vast majority, people generally do things because they want the rewards, whatever those happen to be.
You say you're different; that the only reward you want is the joy of harder content.
I say...what are you doing here in this easytown MMO? This was never, on its most outrageous day, one of the difficult MMO's. Not ever. Not. Ever.
It was never going to be. There wasn't any hype about how this was going to be some Big Woo Oldskool MMO. There was never any whisper or suggestion that this was going to be some sort of hardcore wonderland.
Couple of games off the top of my head did try to play that angle. Wizardry Online and Wildstar.
They crashed and burned, because it turns out that there just aren't enough players that want that kind of game.
On the other hand, ESO is currently very comfortably popular and doing quite well, at least as far as player counts go.
As it turns out, nobody makes MMO's because they wanted to savor the challenge, and MMO studios and their publishers/owners expect these things to be profitable endeavors. They both expect and require fairly substantial profits when it comes to whether or not a game eventually gets the axe or gets invested in further and expanded upon with more content.
ESO has been getting regular content for years. There is no other indicator necessary to conclude that the game is comfortably profitable per the desires of its owners, as they keep authorizing continued investments into expanding its development.
Turns out, nobody does that unless they expect even greater returns on such investments. It's almost like this is a core motivator for pretty much all humans everywhere about almost everything or something.
So, ESO must be fine. You clearly aren't happy with the challenge you aren't finding here, but that really just begs the question...why are you here?
Per your own description of yourself and how ultra-hardcore you sound to be, how the heck did you wind up here in the first place?
What in all existence about any Elder Scrolls game led you to somehow believe that any of this was going to offer the kind of challenge you say you crave? I mean, I've played them all clear back to Arena when that was the new hotness and I can very confidently say that Elder Scrolls games are cheesetastic romps that anyone with two braincells can utterly break into unbalanced godmode-tier hilarity just by learning the systems and then abusing them.
No cheat codes or console commands required. Homey G-Funk, I can murder my way through Skyrim with an enchanted fork that deals thousands of damage per hit. No cheating required. Difficulty settings won't matter much when I render myself invincible with 20k health and a fork that can oneshot everything in the game, brought forth by learning the systems and figuring out how to loophole and generally abuse them.
This is part of the fun of an Elder Scrolls game though; breaking them terribly and doing absurd things. This goes clear back to at least Daggerfall, making your character absurdly overpowered and require the minimum XP to level by setting outrageous weaknesses that never actually get attacked, then farming your way to max rank in the mage's guild by repeatedly cheesing the guild quest and doing nothing but killing thieves in the basement so you never even have to leave the building, and THEN making enchanted items that cover for your outrageous weaknesses, rendering you an unkillable god with a few hours worth of effort.
And then you can farm Daedric gear by loitering in stores, stealing everything when the store is closed and selling it back to the same store while hopping and running around, thus skilling up several of your skills.
This is the legacy of Elder Scrolls. It's a whacky mix of Shedungent's password to skip the whole thing literally being 'Shut Up' and enchanted murderforks that deal 7k damage per hit wrapped in an unhealthy number of cliffracers and an unfortunate dearth of Patrick Stewart voicing more emperors.
I mean, its not like you're somehow unwelcome in an elderscrolls game, but with what you said about what you want out of a game...I mean, its like, how did you even get here? And why did you stay?
And do you really think this game is ever going to be the thing you wish it were?
7 -
Faulgor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Over the years there have been so many suggestions how to make this work. Not that it would be our job to do so, I'm perfectly confident in ZOS' ability to develop something appropriate if only they acknowledged the demand.That's just the thing though - how exactly would this even be implemented in a fashion that would matter?
But, what the heck. Let's go through this.
Yes, a simple debuff like battle spirit would be the most sensible solution. Overworld mobs don't need special mechanics - they already have them. They are just easily ignored because they can be powered through. Doshia didn't have different mechanics back in the day, you just had to pay attention to them.Lets say they put in a difficulty toggle. Lets say you flip it on. What then?
Do you then do half damage and take 1.5x damage? How can overworld mobs have special mechanics for sophisticated difficulty without that affecting everyone else in the overworld as well?
As said, mobs wouldn't have to change at all.Lets say you're doing literally anything in the overworld areas with literally anyone that doesn't have Hard Mode toggled on. Do mobs get Hard Mode mechanics that can affect you but not them? Just how long would you feel super thrilled to be doing less damage against mobs that the Normal Moders are just burning through?
And don't worry how long I will be thrilled, I'll be just fine. Players of varying character level and ability have been playing together at least since One Tamriel, seeing someone stronger never bothered me one bit.
No, logically you wouldn't. What logic? What's the premise here?Logically, you'd have to be in your own layer of the area where everything is tuned for this Hard Mode Overworld business, and where only other people with Hard Mode turned on also zoned into instead of the regular Normal Mode maps.
Which is why you shouldn't create different overland instances based on difficulty. It's too much effort for too little gain, and just separates people further.Very little of this game's story content is solo instanced. They could totally put difficulty options on that content in the storylines, sure, but that's a puny little smidge of content compared to all the quests and questlines there are throughout all the zones that are most definitely not exclusively instanced.
It sounds more like you are arguing against your own assumptions than somebody else's suggestion.What you and others sharing your outlook want isn't particularly feasible because it literally wouldn't help anything, or it would effectively double the load on the servers to have to run twice as many iterations of every zone and public instance.
Funny, but no.All so you can feel like you were threatened by a Guar while you were walking to Balmorra.
ZOS just recently acknowledged again that many, many of their players are playing solo. So do I most of the time.
The problem is that outside of solo arenas, solo content in this game is so trivially easy that it makes all other game systems virtually superfluous. I'd love to hunt for gear, level my crafting skills and upgrade said gear, add better traits and enchantments, learn recipes, gain new skill lines, level my champion rank, deliberate good loadouts, etc. pp. But all of these progression systems are completely irrelevant when you can beat the new story boss with a few light attacks.
So, what we really ask for is for ZOS to improve the solo experience they acknowledge is a huge part of their players' preferd playstyle, by (optionally) elevating the difficulty from the level of a visual novel to something that incorporates other game systems, the way it used to do.
There's always someone in these threads who considers it some kind of "Gotcha!" when people point out that higher difficulty comes with better/different rewards. It's not the "whole point", it's just one point to good game design.Ken_Koerperich wrote: »Next thing that all these guys begging for harder haven't realized....
It's an MMORpg Open World, you are in game with, what, several hundred per zone???
So you want it harder, you're at the same Dolmen/Boss/Mob Farm Spot....
How does ZOS make it harder for you, yet keep it easy for others??
You don't, your slider won't do diddly squat, as you're in the same instance as the other 100 players right next to you....
That's why there are "Hard & Vet Dungeons", Trials, and what ever else...
Want "Harder" go where it's HARDER....
LMFAO!
Simple really, you all just don't like that answer....
Actually you are assuming the world must be made harder and ESO is actually backwards compared with other games. Mobs don't scale to you, you scale to them. You are the one that changes, they are the same difficulty at level 1, no CP that they are at level 50,3600 CP. And mobs are (mostly) the same everywhere in the game based on their class( normal, elite, etc.) You are the one that changed.
When you are new you are leveled up to the mobs level. You lose your "buffs" over time as you get closer to their level and after you reach their level you have no buffs. All of this is built in and the same system used to buff you from level 1 to CP 160 could be used to alter your difficulty. For example, the "slider" could be moved in the opposite direction so instead of getting a 20% buff to all stats you get a 20% penalty to all stats. This would make mobs more difficult for you but Ali might have his slider set on easy (OG difficulty), Ann might have hers set on Vet( 40% penalty) and Arnold might have his set on Elite (60% penalty and they might all be in the same group.
Ann might get a little better chance at more rare loot while Arnold might get an even better chance than Ann because they are playing at a higher difficulty.
And there it is. The whole point of all of this.
/thread
There's no hidden conspiracy to leech a few more coins of gold out of ZOS. That's just how games work.Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.3 -
MasterSpatula✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I keep thinking this topic can't get any more tiresome. I'm always wrong."A probable impossibility is preferable to an improbable possibility." - Aristotle3 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭A: Hey let's make a separate Veteran version of Overland and Story Boss encounters to make them more engaging
B: You just want more rewards for doing Veteran
A: Well how about No added reward - that would be part of making it challenging.
B: No one would play a harder version of Overland / Story with no reward incentive to play. Go play other activities for challenge
A: Well we would be incentivized by the FUN it would be to play - but ok let's scale the rewards from blue to purple. Maybe add an achievement for doing certain things on Veteran
B: See it always comes back to Reward - you guys just want more goodies. Go play other activities if you want better rewards.
A: Ok - how about just achievements for Cosmetics - no gameplay rewards.
B: That's still a reward and hardly anyone would play it for no gameplay rewards.
A: We don't care about the reward, we want Overland and Story to have better gameplay.
B: Story is for New Players - there are other hard things in the game to satisfy your desire for harder content
A: This is not about seeking challenge. This is about making the story a better experience for other skilled players that are not beginners. Also there are plenty of New Players who find Overland and Story combat boring.
B: Well I like it the way it is so leave it alone
A: That is why we are asking for a separate instance so then you can still play the way you like
B: That would split the player base!
A: The player base is already split, Overland is easy enough that hardly anyone plays together (especially now with companions) those who don't enjoy how things are right now just don't play it. New Players who don't care for the lackluster combat just leave to go play something else.
B: Well ZOS already did Hard Overland and it failed.
A: We are not asking for another Craglorn or for leveled zones. That doesn't mean we want things to be too easy..There is a GOOD compromise in there somewhere. It doesn't have to be the hardest thing but that doesn't mean it has to be braindead easy.
B: Then wear no gear and use 0-1 skill
A: that doesn't solve the problem - we've tried it
B: Yes it does
A: No it doesn't
B: This isn’t Dark Souls
A: We never said it was, but they’re has to be a better compromise between Beginner Zone difficulty vs Endgame.
B: If you want challenge then go play endgame
A: We aren't asking for endgame - we're asking that the story be made fun for people with above beginner skill level.
B: Story is for New Players!
A: Why? We are paying customers too - Why should the story's gameplay only appeal to new players?
B: Stop being an elitist!
A: Many of us play casually, that doesn't mean we want the questing experience to be braindead easy.
B: Oh so you don't play endgame - then this is really just about Rewards & Goodies without having to do endgame!
A: ......... 🤦Bad faith is a concept in negotiation theory whereby parties pretend to reason to reach settlement, but have no intention to do so, for example, one political party may pretend to negotiate, with no intention to compromise, for political effect.
There is no intent to understand or compromise on a solution.
"Our enjoyment matters more than your optional setting that has no effect on me"
and
"The only possible reason you have a different opinion is because you have a secret goal for loot... even if many people have said they don't care about the loot from story content"
The only reason it seems anyone is against this is because of either spite against some symbolic collective of "Elites" - even though many asking for this feature are casuals who just have the basic understanding of the game.
Or because of the idea that ZOS just cannot afford it and would not make something for only a "Minority" of players, even though they do that all the time.
eventually this fades as this cycle gets repeated with some variation again and again and again and again and again and again. etc. etc. etc.
Maybe one day ZOS will actually do something about what many consider to be a fatal flaw in the game...maybe then these threads will stop popping up8 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭AuraoftheAzureSea wrote: »Ken_Koerperich wrote: »Next thing that all these guys begging for harder haven't realized....
It's an MMORpg Open World, you are in game with, what, several hundred per zone???
So you want it harder, you're at the same Dolmen/Boss/Mob Farm Spot....
How does ZOS make it harder for you, yet keep it easy for others??
You don't, your slider won't do diddly squat, as you're in the same instance as the other 100 players right next to you....
That's why there are "Hard & Vet Dungeons", Trials, and what ever else...
Want "Harder" go where it's HARDER....
LMFAO!
Simple really, you all just don't like that answer....
Actually you are assuming the world must be made harder and ESO is actually backwards compared with other games. Mobs don't scale to you, you scale to them. You are the one that changes, they are the same difficulty at level 1, no CP that they are at level 50,3600 CP. And mobs are (mostly) the same everywhere in the game based on their class( normal, elite, etc.) You are the one that changed.
When you are new you are leveled up to the mobs level. You lose your "buffs" over time as you get closer to their level and after you reach their level you have no buffs. All of this is built in and the same system used to buff you from level 1 to CP 160 could be used to alter your difficulty. For example, the "slider" could be moved in the opposite direction so instead of getting a 20% buff to all stats you get a 20% penalty to all stats. This would make mobs more difficult for you but Ali might have his slider set on easy (OG difficulty), Ann might have hers set on Vet( 40% penalty) and Arnold might have his set on Elite (60% penalty and they might all be in the same group.
Ann might get a little better chance at more rare loot while Arnold might get an even better chance than Ann because they are playing at a higher difficulty.
And there it is. The whole point of all of this.
/thread
and other people that want it harder have disagreed with this idea - so no, it is not the point of the thread. The only reason someone would come to this conclusion is if they ignored what everyone else said.
People have had different ideas on how it should work. Let's not paint everyone with a broad brush, K
And yet, somehow, despite your assertions, it always comes back...to this. This one particular thing.
Next to nobody would use a Hard Mode toggle if there weren't greater incentives for doing so, and even if the toggle-wanting sorts got their wish, the first thing we'd all be seeing roughly five minutes afterward is 'Those of us that play on Hard Mode should get better rewards!'
This isn't just an issue of extremely predictable moving goalposts - its expecting all of us to be so credulous and vacuous that we'd actually believe such things as you're claiming.
There is no reality in which human nature follows some other path. People do harder content because they want greater rewards, whether that comes in the form of gear, prestige, exclusive skins, achievements - all of the above.
Take those incentives away from, say, Vet dungeons and Vet trials...and watch pretty much nobody ever do them ever again.
Do you seriously think that people would ever do Vet Maelstrom if there weren't Perfected Malestrom weapons to be had or leaderboard ego fluff to shoot for? Incentives don't just matter - they're the be-all, end-all of why anyone does pretty much anything difficult at all, in game, in life - period.
So, the whole very noble-sounding premise that there's just some deluge of people that really-for-realsies only want more challenge and would be totally happy without greater incentives to entice and justify it sounds a lot to me like nonsense.
This will always be a discussion about Moar Harder for Moar Shinies no matter how veiled that foundational fact is being today. It was that the entire time, every time.
I don’t play harder difficulties for more rewards, so there’s one data point. I get nothing at all for playing Skyrim on Legendary and with combat mods other than the game lasting longer and being more engaging until I am inevitably overpowered. There’s a reason I restart and rarely finish play throughout and there’s a reason I ran around purposefully handicapped doing overland story quests so I could actually play without being bored.
It’s not us trying to be noble sounding. Enjoying harder content also doesn’t mean I think I’m better at games either - my SO is perfectly capable of playing and beating the same difficulty, they just don’t enjoy it because it frustrates them because we play games for different reasons.
Even in ESO I ran vets over normal because they are way more fun. The drops are the same and I had gotten every shoulder/head monster set imaginable a long time ago so as far as I was concerned the rewards for harder content was never any different. God nMA was so boring compared to vMA too! So much time waiting between rounds it’s not like normal was even that much faster.
And yet, I give you...the entirety of human history as accumulated evidence that, in overwhelmingly vast majority, people generally do things because they want the rewards, whatever those happen to be.
You say you're different; that the only reward you want is the joy of harder content.
I say...what are you doing here in this easytown MMO? This was never, on its most outrageous day, one of the difficult MMO's. Not ever. Not. Ever.
It was never going to be. There wasn't any hype about how this was going to be some Big Woo Oldskool MMO. There was never any whisper or suggestion that this was going to be some sort of hardcore wonderland.
Couple of games off the top of my head did try to play that angle. Wizardry Online and Wildstar.
They crashed and burned, because it turns out that there just aren't enough players that want that kind of game.
On the other hand, ESO is currently very comfortably popular and doing quite well, at least as far as player counts go.
As it turns out, nobody makes MMO's because they wanted to savor the challenge, and MMO studios and their publishers/owners expect these things to be profitable endeavors. They both expect and require fairly substantial profits when it comes to whether or not a game eventually gets the axe or gets invested in further and expanded upon with more content.
ESO has been getting regular content for years. There is no other indicator necessary to conclude that the game is comfortably profitable per the desires of its owners, as they keep authorizing continued investments into expanding its development.
Turns out, nobody does that unless they expect even greater returns on such investments. It's almost like this is a core motivator for pretty much all humans everywhere about almost everything or something.
So, ESO must be fine. You clearly aren't happy with the challenge you aren't finding here, but that really just begs the question...why are you here?
Per your own description of yourself and how ultra-hardcore you sound to be, how the heck did you wind up here in the first place?
What in all existence about any Elder Scrolls game led you to somehow believe that any of this was going to offer the kind of challenge you say you crave? I mean, I've played them all clear back to Arena when that was the new hotness and I can very confidently say that Elder Scrolls games are cheesetastic romps that anyone with two braincells can utterly break into unbalanced godmode-tier hilarity just by learning the systems and then abusing them.
No cheat codes or console commands required. Homey G-Funk, I can murder my way through Skyrim with an enchanted fork that deals thousands of damage per hit. No cheating required. Difficulty settings won't matter much when I render myself invincible with 20k health and a fork that can oneshot everything in the game, brought forth by learning the systems and figuring out how to loophole and generally abuse them.
This is part of the fun of an Elder Scrolls game though; breaking them terribly and doing absurd things. This goes clear back to at least Daggerfall, making your character absurdly overpowered and require the minimum XP to level by setting outrageous weaknesses that never actually get attacked, then farming your way to max rank in the mage's guild by repeatedly cheesing the guild quest and doing nothing but killing thieves in the basement so you never even have to leave the building, and THEN making enchanted items that cover for your outrageous weaknesses, rendering you an unkillable god with a few hours worth of effort.
And then you can farm Daedric gear by loitering in stores, stealing everything when the store is closed and selling it back to the same store while hopping and running around, thus skilling up several of your skills.
This is the legacy of Elder Scrolls. It's a whacky mix of Shedungent's password to skip the whole thing literally being 'Shut Up' and enchanted murderforks that deal 7k damage per hit wrapped in an unhealthy number of cliffracers and an unfortunate dearth of Patrick Stewart voicing more emperors.
I mean, its not like you're somehow unwelcome in an elderscrolls game, but with what you said about what you want out of a game...I mean, its like, how did you even get here? And why did you stay?
And do you really think this game is ever going to be the thing you wish it were?
I guess you weren't around pre One-Tamriel? That had challenging questing. Doshia was HARD. You could go to more difficult zones or stay in easier zones, tailoring the difficulty you played. Then there were also Vet versions of the whole base game (Cadwells silver)
Why do YOU think it was always built and marketed as easy-mode? It wasn't. One-Tamriel made all content much, much easier. And then constant power-creep since with new sets, CP limit increases etc.. have made it easier still.
The reason people who want a more difficult game ever started ESO is that it WAS a more difficult game when we first came here.
The biggest thing that I don't understand, is why you are so against an OPTION?. You don't have to choose it if you don't want to.Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.6 -
hcbigdogdoghc✭✭✭✭✭If ESO overland is really a "story game" and that we should play it for the story, i would say they failed pretty hard seeing that Saturday kid cartoons have better writing than the "year long adventures" ZOS gave us. As someone who played quite a few visual novels I can safely say 99.9999% of visual novels have better writing than ESO.Edited by hcbigdogdoghc on June 24, 2021 9:38AM7
-
nryerson1025✭✭✭✭Use all white non set gear and do them. They're mildly more fun. Remove your CP tooEdited by nryerson1025 on June 24, 2021 9:36AM2 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭AuraoftheAzureSea wrote: »Ken_Koerperich wrote: »Next thing that all these guys begging for harder haven't realized....
It's an MMORpg Open World, you are in game with, what, several hundred per zone???
So you want it harder, you're at the same Dolmen/Boss/Mob Farm Spot....
How does ZOS make it harder for you, yet keep it easy for others??
You don't, your slider won't do diddly squat, as you're in the same instance as the other 100 players right next to you....
That's why there are "Hard & Vet Dungeons", Trials, and what ever else...
Want "Harder" go where it's HARDER....
LMFAO!
Simple really, you all just don't like that answer....
Actually you are assuming the world must be made harder and ESO is actually backwards compared with other games. Mobs don't scale to you, you scale to them. You are the one that changes, they are the same difficulty at level 1, no CP that they are at level 50,3600 CP. And mobs are (mostly) the same everywhere in the game based on their class( normal, elite, etc.) You are the one that changed.
When you are new you are leveled up to the mobs level. You lose your "buffs" over time as you get closer to their level and after you reach their level you have no buffs. All of this is built in and the same system used to buff you from level 1 to CP 160 could be used to alter your difficulty. For example, the "slider" could be moved in the opposite direction so instead of getting a 20% buff to all stats you get a 20% penalty to all stats. This would make mobs more difficult for you but Ali might have his slider set on easy (OG difficulty), Ann might have hers set on Vet( 40% penalty) and Arnold might have his set on Elite (60% penalty and they might all be in the same group.
Ann might get a little better chance at more rare loot while Arnold might get an even better chance than Ann because they are playing at a higher difficulty.
And there it is. The whole point of all of this.
/thread
and other people that want it harder have disagreed with this idea - so no, it is not the point of the thread. The only reason someone would come to this conclusion is if they ignored what everyone else said.
People have had different ideas on how it should work. Let's not paint everyone with a broad brush, K
And yet, somehow, despite your assertions, it always comes back...to this. This one particular thing.
Next to nobody would use a Hard Mode toggle if there weren't greater incentives for doing so, and even if the toggle-wanting sorts got their wish, the first thing we'd all be seeing roughly five minutes afterward is 'Those of us that play on Hard Mode should get better rewards!'
This isn't just an issue of extremely predictable moving goalposts - its expecting all of us to be so credulous and vacuous that we'd actually believe such things as you're claiming.
There is no reality in which human nature follows some other path. People do harder content because they want greater rewards, whether that comes in the form of gear, prestige, exclusive skins, achievements - all of the above.
Take those incentives away from, say, Vet dungeons and Vet trials...and watch pretty much nobody ever do them ever again.
Do you seriously think that people would ever do Vet Maelstrom if there weren't Perfected Malestrom weapons to be had or leaderboard ego fluff to shoot for? Incentives don't just matter - they're the be-all, end-all of why anyone does pretty much anything difficult at all, in game, in life - period.
So, the whole very noble-sounding premise that there's just some deluge of people that really-for-realsies only want more challenge and would be totally happy without greater incentives to entice and justify it sounds a lot to me like nonsense.
This will always be a discussion about Moar Harder for Moar Shinies no matter how veiled that foundational fact is being today. It was that the entire time, every time.
I don’t play harder difficulties for more rewards, so there’s one data point. I get nothing at all for playing Skyrim on Legendary and with combat mods other than the game lasting longer and being more engaging until I am inevitably overpowered. There’s a reason I restart and rarely finish play throughout and there’s a reason I ran around purposefully handicapped doing overland story quests so I could actually play without being bored.
It’s not us trying to be noble sounding. Enjoying harder content also doesn’t mean I think I’m better at games either - my SO is perfectly capable of playing and beating the same difficulty, they just don’t enjoy it because it frustrates them because we play games for different reasons.
Even in ESO I ran vets over normal because they are way more fun. The drops are the same and I had gotten every shoulder/head monster set imaginable a long time ago so as far as I was concerned the rewards for harder content was never any different. God nMA was so boring compared to vMA too! So much time waiting between rounds it’s not like normal was even that much faster.
And yet, I give you...the entirety of human history as accumulated evidence that, in overwhelmingly vast majority, people generally do things because they want the rewards, whatever those happen to be.
You say you're different; that the only reward you want is the joy of harder content.
I say...what are you doing here in this easytown MMO? This was never, on its most outrageous day, one of the difficult MMO's. Not ever. Not. Ever.
It was never going to be. There wasn't any hype about how this was going to be some Big Woo Oldskool MMO. There was never any whisper or suggestion that this was going to be some sort of hardcore wonderland.
Couple of games off the top of my head did try to play that angle. Wizardry Online and Wildstar.
They crashed and burned, because it turns out that there just aren't enough players that want that kind of game.
On the other hand, ESO is currently very comfortably popular and doing quite well, at least as far as player counts go.
As it turns out, nobody makes MMO's because they wanted to savor the challenge, and MMO studios and their publishers/owners expect these things to be profitable endeavors. They both expect and require fairly substantial profits when it comes to whether or not a game eventually gets the axe or gets invested in further and expanded upon with more content.
ESO has been getting regular content for years. There is no other indicator necessary to conclude that the game is comfortably profitable per the desires of its owners, as they keep authorizing continued investments into expanding its development.
Turns out, nobody does that unless they expect even greater returns on such investments. It's almost like this is a core motivator for pretty much all humans everywhere about almost everything or something.
So, ESO must be fine. You clearly aren't happy with the challenge you aren't finding here, but that really just begs the question...why are you here?
Per your own description of yourself and how ultra-hardcore you sound to be, how the heck did you wind up here in the first place?
What in all existence about any Elder Scrolls game led you to somehow believe that any of this was going to offer the kind of challenge you say you crave? I mean, I've played them all clear back to Arena when that was the new hotness and I can very confidently say that Elder Scrolls games are cheesetastic romps that anyone with two braincells can utterly break into unbalanced godmode-tier hilarity just by learning the systems and then abusing them.
No cheat codes or console commands required. Homey G-Funk, I can murder my way through Skyrim with an enchanted fork that deals thousands of damage per hit. No cheating required. Difficulty settings won't matter much when I render myself invincible with 20k health and a fork that can oneshot everything in the game, brought forth by learning the systems and figuring out how to loophole and generally abuse them.
This is part of the fun of an Elder Scrolls game though; breaking them terribly and doing absurd things. This goes clear back to at least Daggerfall, making your character absurdly overpowered and require the minimum XP to level by setting outrageous weaknesses that never actually get attacked, then farming your way to max rank in the mage's guild by repeatedly cheesing the guild quest and doing nothing but killing thieves in the basement so you never even have to leave the building, and THEN making enchanted items that cover for your outrageous weaknesses, rendering you an unkillable god with a few hours worth of effort.
And then you can farm Daedric gear by loitering in stores, stealing everything when the store is closed and selling it back to the same store while hopping and running around, thus skilling up several of your skills.
This is the legacy of Elder Scrolls. It's a whacky mix of Shedungent's password to skip the whole thing literally being 'Shut Up' and enchanted murderforks that deal 7k damage per hit wrapped in an unhealthy number of cliffracers and an unfortunate dearth of Patrick Stewart voicing more emperors.
I mean, its not like you're somehow unwelcome in an elderscrolls game, but with what you said about what you want out of a game...I mean, its like, how did you even get here? And why did you stay?
And do you really think this game is ever going to be the thing you wish it were?
I guess you weren't around pre One-Tamriel? That had challenging questing. Doshia was HARD. You could go to more difficult zones or stay in easier zones, tailoring the difficulty you played. Then there were also Vet versions of the whole base game (Cadwells silver)
Why do YOU think it was always built and marketed as easy-mode? It wasn't. One-Tamriel made all content much, much easier. And then constant power-creep since with new sets, CP limit increases etc.. have made it easier still.
The reason people who want a more difficult game ever started ESO is that it WAS a more difficult game when we first came here.
The biggest thing that I don't understand, is why you are so against an OPTION?. You don't have to choose it if you don't want to.
Because it’s likely that they don’t like the idea of resources being dedicated to this kind of project instead of something else.
It’s a mindset of scarcity - rather than asking; “Why not both?”.
Though they are free to correct me if I’m wrong.
I just see this same argument from people who finally make their conclusion about money and where they would prefer it to be dedicated.
————————————————
Also there just seems to be quite a few people who don’t consider how making the Main Antagonist of the year (as well as the Chapter & Zone DLC) only for new players just makes for an unmemorable, boring, and overall disappointing experience.
In previous TES games story and gameplay go hand-in-hand, that’s how it is for most games, yet it’s somehow controversial to ask that of ESO.
One Tamriel is Not 100% perfect, and I think it’s odd how people are so quick to act as if it is.1 -
KyraCROgnon✭✭✭There still is hard content IMHO. If you're managing vet CR +3 without even breaking a sweat you're much better at that game than i never will be, and i would probably hate a game that would be challenging for you.
The storyline quests though, should NOT be blocked by unbeatable hard content, because everyone should be able to enjoy the story. If you want harder longer fights, don't spend all your champion skill and ability points, use a mix of green gear and no abilities and even green trash will be hard (says someone who now and then take their "bagholder" char out for a walk and come back crying...)
My complain with the lastest trend in storyline is that the writing quality has decreased; some of the quests in the older content are very moving and complex in their story, not so much now (i loved the main Wrothgar story, and the Dark brotherhood was also a very good surprise. Elsweyr was mehh, and Greymoor even more disappointing)
And i find some quests too easy not in the fight part but in the thinking : when you're supposed to investigate a mystery / solve a puzzle, having all the answers glowing in front of you is not exacly problem solving ...2 -
Grandchamp1989✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭nryerson1025 wrote: »Use all white non set gear and do them. They're mildly more fun. Remove your CP too
I finished Alik'r Zone naked with no champion points - only weapon.
It isn't harder.. Just boring. What happens when you go in naked is you do 1-2 abilities and then you're dry, and must heavy attack.
So it's ability - heavy attack - ability - heavy attack repeat.
Abilities don't flow and things aren't dynamic which makes for a dull experience.
Would love to be able to use my abilities and and still have it be a challenge.3 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭KyraCROgnon wrote: »There still is hard content IMHO. If you're managing vet CR +3 without even breaking a sweat you're much better at that game than i never will be, and i would probably hate a game that would be challenging for you.
The storyline quests though, should NOT be blocked by unbeatable hard content, because everyone should be able to enjoy the story. If you want harder longer fights, don't spend all your champion skill and ability points, use a mix of green gear and no abilities and even green trash will be hard (says someone who now and then take their "bagholder" char out for a walk and come back crying...)
My complain with the lastest trend in storyline is that the writing quality has decreased; some of the quests in the older content are very moving and complex in their story, not so much now (i loved the main Wrothgar story, and the Dark brotherhood was also a very good surprise. Elsweyr was mehh, and Greymoor even more disappointing)
And i find some quests too easy not in the fight part but in the thinking : when you're supposed to investigate a mystery / solve a puzzle, having all the answers glowing in front of you is not exacly problem solving ...
Going naked defeats the whole point.. MMO's are progression-based games - where you get through content by improving your character. You know fine well it isn't *JUST* about knowing when to block/roll etc. And again - nobody is asking for anything to be blocked - just an OPTIONAL difficulty slider.
Some days I may want the challenge and play with it turned up - hit a point where I die, look at my skill-selection, gear, what I did wrong, when etc. and try to beat it. Other days I may just think 'buggrit' and set it to easy just to quickly progress the story..
I agree with you on the writing quality though.Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.4 -
Chadak✭✭✭✭✭
Over the years there have been so many suggestions how to make this work. Not that it would be our job to do so, I'm perfectly confident in ZOS' ability to develop something appropriate if only they acknowledged the demand.That's just the thing though - how exactly would this even be implemented in a fashion that would matter?
But, what the heck. Let's go through this.
Yes, a simple debuff like battle spirit would be the most sensible solution. Overworld mobs don't need special mechanics - they already have them. They are just easily ignored because they can be powered through. Doshia didn't have different mechanics back in the day, you just had to pay attention to them.Lets say they put in a difficulty toggle. Lets say you flip it on. What then?
Do you then do half damage and take 1.5x damage? How can overworld mobs have special mechanics for sophisticated difficulty without that affecting everyone else in the overworld as well?
As said, mobs wouldn't have to change at all.Lets say you're doing literally anything in the overworld areas with literally anyone that doesn't have Hard Mode toggled on. Do mobs get Hard Mode mechanics that can affect you but not them? Just how long would you feel super thrilled to be doing less damage against mobs that the Normal Moders are just burning through?
And don't worry how long I will be thrilled, I'll be just fine. Players of varying character level and ability have been playing together at least since One Tamriel, seeing someone stronger never bothered me one bit.
No, logically you wouldn't. What logic? What's the premise here?Logically, you'd have to be in your own layer of the area where everything is tuned for this Hard Mode Overworld business, and where only other people with Hard Mode turned on also zoned into instead of the regular Normal Mode maps.
Which is why you shouldn't create different overland instances based on difficulty. It's too much effort for too little gain, and just separates people further.Very little of this game's story content is solo instanced. They could totally put difficulty options on that content in the storylines, sure, but that's a puny little smidge of content compared to all the quests and questlines there are throughout all the zones that are most definitely not exclusively instanced.
It sounds more like you are arguing against your own assumptions than somebody else's suggestion.What you and others sharing your outlook want isn't particularly feasible because it literally wouldn't help anything, or it would effectively double the load on the servers to have to run twice as many iterations of every zone and public instance.
Funny, but no.All so you can feel like you were threatened by a Guar while you were walking to Balmorra.
ZOS just recently acknowledged again that many, many of their players are playing solo. So do I most of the time.
The problem is that outside of solo arenas, solo content in this game is so trivially easy that it makes all other game systems virtually superfluous. I'd love to hunt for gear, level my crafting skills and upgrade said gear, add better traits and enchantments, learn recipes, gain new skill lines, level my champion rank, deliberate good loadouts, etc. pp. But all of these progression systems are completely irrelevant when you can beat the new story boss with a few light attacks.
So, what we really ask for is for ZOS to improve the solo experience they acknowledge is a huge part of their players' preferd playstyle, by (optionally) elevating the difficulty from the level of a visual novel to something that incorporates other game systems, the way it used to do.
There's always someone in these threads who considers it some kind of "Gotcha!" when people point out that higher difficulty comes with better/different rewards. It's not the "whole point", it's just one point to good game design.Ken_Koerperich wrote: »Next thing that all these guys begging for harder haven't realized....
It's an MMORpg Open World, you are in game with, what, several hundred per zone???
So you want it harder, you're at the same Dolmen/Boss/Mob Farm Spot....
How does ZOS make it harder for you, yet keep it easy for others??
You don't, your slider won't do diddly squat, as you're in the same instance as the other 100 players right next to you....
That's why there are "Hard & Vet Dungeons", Trials, and what ever else...
Want "Harder" go where it's HARDER....
LMFAO!
Simple really, you all just don't like that answer....
Actually you are assuming the world must be made harder and ESO is actually backwards compared with other games. Mobs don't scale to you, you scale to them. You are the one that changes, they are the same difficulty at level 1, no CP that they are at level 50,3600 CP. And mobs are (mostly) the same everywhere in the game based on their class( normal, elite, etc.) You are the one that changed.
When you are new you are leveled up to the mobs level. You lose your "buffs" over time as you get closer to their level and after you reach their level you have no buffs. All of this is built in and the same system used to buff you from level 1 to CP 160 could be used to alter your difficulty. For example, the "slider" could be moved in the opposite direction so instead of getting a 20% buff to all stats you get a 20% penalty to all stats. This would make mobs more difficult for you but Ali might have his slider set on easy (OG difficulty), Ann might have hers set on Vet( 40% penalty) and Arnold might have his set on Elite (60% penalty and they might all be in the same group.
Ann might get a little better chance at more rare loot while Arnold might get an even better chance than Ann because they are playing at a higher difficulty.
And there it is. The whole point of all of this.
/thread
There's no hidden conspiracy to leech a few more coins of gold out of ZOS. That's just how games work.
Yeah. Why wouldn't you want more rewards for higher difficulty? What would the point even be to running at a higher difficulty if you didn't get anything to show for it?
This was never a discussion about more challenge. It was always, and will always, be a dishonestly presented discussion about trying to finagle more shinies out of the devs, whether those shinies come in the form of gear or titles or being catered to despite being an insignificant minority of the playerbase.
4 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Over the years there have been so many suggestions how to make this work. Not that it would be our job to do so, I'm perfectly confident in ZOS' ability to develop something appropriate if only they acknowledged the demand.That's just the thing though - how exactly would this even be implemented in a fashion that would matter?
But, what the heck. Let's go through this.
Yes, a simple debuff like battle spirit would be the most sensible solution. Overworld mobs don't need special mechanics - they already have them. They are just easily ignored because they can be powered through. Doshia didn't have different mechanics back in the day, you just had to pay attention to them.Lets say they put in a difficulty toggle. Lets say you flip it on. What then?
Do you then do half damage and take 1.5x damage? How can overworld mobs have special mechanics for sophisticated difficulty without that affecting everyone else in the overworld as well?
As said, mobs wouldn't have to change at all.Lets say you're doing literally anything in the overworld areas with literally anyone that doesn't have Hard Mode toggled on. Do mobs get Hard Mode mechanics that can affect you but not them? Just how long would you feel super thrilled to be doing less damage against mobs that the Normal Moders are just burning through?
And don't worry how long I will be thrilled, I'll be just fine. Players of varying character level and ability have been playing together at least since One Tamriel, seeing someone stronger never bothered me one bit.
No, logically you wouldn't. What logic? What's the premise here?Logically, you'd have to be in your own layer of the area where everything is tuned for this Hard Mode Overworld business, and where only other people with Hard Mode turned on also zoned into instead of the regular Normal Mode maps.
Which is why you shouldn't create different overland instances based on difficulty. It's too much effort for too little gain, and just separates people further.Very little of this game's story content is solo instanced. They could totally put difficulty options on that content in the storylines, sure, but that's a puny little smidge of content compared to all the quests and questlines there are throughout all the zones that are most definitely not exclusively instanced.
It sounds more like you are arguing against your own assumptions than somebody else's suggestion.What you and others sharing your outlook want isn't particularly feasible because it literally wouldn't help anything, or it would effectively double the load on the servers to have to run twice as many iterations of every zone and public instance.
Funny, but no.All so you can feel like you were threatened by a Guar while you were walking to Balmorra.
ZOS just recently acknowledged again that many, many of their players are playing solo. So do I most of the time.
The problem is that outside of solo arenas, solo content in this game is so trivially easy that it makes all other game systems virtually superfluous. I'd love to hunt for gear, level my crafting skills and upgrade said gear, add better traits and enchantments, learn recipes, gain new skill lines, level my champion rank, deliberate good loadouts, etc. pp. But all of these progression systems are completely irrelevant when you can beat the new story boss with a few light attacks.
So, what we really ask for is for ZOS to improve the solo experience they acknowledge is a huge part of their players' preferd playstyle, by (optionally) elevating the difficulty from the level of a visual novel to something that incorporates other game systems, the way it used to do.
There's always someone in these threads who considers it some kind of "Gotcha!" when people point out that higher difficulty comes with better/different rewards. It's not the "whole point", it's just one point to good game design.Ken_Koerperich wrote: »Next thing that all these guys begging for harder haven't realized....
It's an MMORpg Open World, you are in game with, what, several hundred per zone???
So you want it harder, you're at the same Dolmen/Boss/Mob Farm Spot....
How does ZOS make it harder for you, yet keep it easy for others??
You don't, your slider won't do diddly squat, as you're in the same instance as the other 100 players right next to you....
That's why there are "Hard & Vet Dungeons", Trials, and what ever else...
Want "Harder" go where it's HARDER....
LMFAO!
Simple really, you all just don't like that answer....
Actually you are assuming the world must be made harder and ESO is actually backwards compared with other games. Mobs don't scale to you, you scale to them. You are the one that changes, they are the same difficulty at level 1, no CP that they are at level 50,3600 CP. And mobs are (mostly) the same everywhere in the game based on their class( normal, elite, etc.) You are the one that changed.
When you are new you are leveled up to the mobs level. You lose your "buffs" over time as you get closer to their level and after you reach their level you have no buffs. All of this is built in and the same system used to buff you from level 1 to CP 160 could be used to alter your difficulty. For example, the "slider" could be moved in the opposite direction so instead of getting a 20% buff to all stats you get a 20% penalty to all stats. This would make mobs more difficult for you but Ali might have his slider set on easy (OG difficulty), Ann might have hers set on Vet( 40% penalty) and Arnold might have his set on Elite (60% penalty and they might all be in the same group.
Ann might get a little better chance at more rare loot while Arnold might get an even better chance than Ann because they are playing at a higher difficulty.
And there it is. The whole point of all of this.
/thread
There's no hidden conspiracy to leech a few more coins of gold out of ZOS. That's just how games work.
Yeah. Why wouldn't you want more rewards for higher difficulty? What would the point even be to running at a higher difficulty if you didn't get anything to show for it?
This was never a discussion about more challenge. It was always, and will always, be a dishonestly presented discussion about trying to finagle more shinies out of the devs, whether those shinies come in the form of gear or titles or being catered to despite being an insignificant minority of the playerbase.
You are so wrong..
I don't know how many more times I can say this. After just levelling a new character - through the main questlines - I want more challenge to make the story believable. What use is better level 25 stuff?
And again - to you.. what is wrong with getting better shinies for harder content - ITS HOW MMO's WORK!Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.6 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Over the years there have been so many suggestions how to make this work. Not that it would be our job to do so, I'm perfectly confident in ZOS' ability to develop something appropriate if only they acknowledged the demand.That's just the thing though - how exactly would this even be implemented in a fashion that would matter?
But, what the heck. Let's go through this.
Yes, a simple debuff like battle spirit would be the most sensible solution. Overworld mobs don't need special mechanics - they already have them. They are just easily ignored because they can be powered through. Doshia didn't have different mechanics back in the day, you just had to pay attention to them.Lets say they put in a difficulty toggle. Lets say you flip it on. What then?
Do you then do half damage and take 1.5x damage? How can overworld mobs have special mechanics for sophisticated difficulty without that affecting everyone else in the overworld as well?
As said, mobs wouldn't have to change at all.Lets say you're doing literally anything in the overworld areas with literally anyone that doesn't have Hard Mode toggled on. Do mobs get Hard Mode mechanics that can affect you but not them? Just how long would you feel super thrilled to be doing less damage against mobs that the Normal Moders are just burning through?
And don't worry how long I will be thrilled, I'll be just fine. Players of varying character level and ability have been playing together at least since One Tamriel, seeing someone stronger never bothered me one bit.
No, logically you wouldn't. What logic? What's the premise here?Logically, you'd have to be in your own layer of the area where everything is tuned for this Hard Mode Overworld business, and where only other people with Hard Mode turned on also zoned into instead of the regular Normal Mode maps.
Which is why you shouldn't create different overland instances based on difficulty. It's too much effort for too little gain, and just separates people further.Very little of this game's story content is solo instanced. They could totally put difficulty options on that content in the storylines, sure, but that's a puny little smidge of content compared to all the quests and questlines there are throughout all the zones that are most definitely not exclusively instanced.
It sounds more like you are arguing against your own assumptions than somebody else's suggestion.What you and others sharing your outlook want isn't particularly feasible because it literally wouldn't help anything, or it would effectively double the load on the servers to have to run twice as many iterations of every zone and public instance.
Funny, but no.All so you can feel like you were threatened by a Guar while you were walking to Balmorra.
ZOS just recently acknowledged again that many, many of their players are playing solo. So do I most of the time.
The problem is that outside of solo arenas, solo content in this game is so trivially easy that it makes all other game systems virtually superfluous. I'd love to hunt for gear, level my crafting skills and upgrade said gear, add better traits and enchantments, learn recipes, gain new skill lines, level my champion rank, deliberate good loadouts, etc. pp. But all of these progression systems are completely irrelevant when you can beat the new story boss with a few light attacks.
So, what we really ask for is for ZOS to improve the solo experience they acknowledge is a huge part of their players' preferd playstyle, by (optionally) elevating the difficulty from the level of a visual novel to something that incorporates other game systems, the way it used to do.
There's always someone in these threads who considers it some kind of "Gotcha!" when people point out that higher difficulty comes with better/different rewards. It's not the "whole point", it's just one point to good game design.Ken_Koerperich wrote: »Next thing that all these guys begging for harder haven't realized....
It's an MMORpg Open World, you are in game with, what, several hundred per zone???
So you want it harder, you're at the same Dolmen/Boss/Mob Farm Spot....
How does ZOS make it harder for you, yet keep it easy for others??
You don't, your slider won't do diddly squat, as you're in the same instance as the other 100 players right next to you....
That's why there are "Hard & Vet Dungeons", Trials, and what ever else...
Want "Harder" go where it's HARDER....
LMFAO!
Simple really, you all just don't like that answer....
Actually you are assuming the world must be made harder and ESO is actually backwards compared with other games. Mobs don't scale to you, you scale to them. You are the one that changes, they are the same difficulty at level 1, no CP that they are at level 50,3600 CP. And mobs are (mostly) the same everywhere in the game based on their class( normal, elite, etc.) You are the one that changed.
When you are new you are leveled up to the mobs level. You lose your "buffs" over time as you get closer to their level and after you reach their level you have no buffs. All of this is built in and the same system used to buff you from level 1 to CP 160 could be used to alter your difficulty. For example, the "slider" could be moved in the opposite direction so instead of getting a 20% buff to all stats you get a 20% penalty to all stats. This would make mobs more difficult for you but Ali might have his slider set on easy (OG difficulty), Ann might have hers set on Vet( 40% penalty) and Arnold might have his set on Elite (60% penalty and they might all be in the same group.
Ann might get a little better chance at more rare loot while Arnold might get an even better chance than Ann because they are playing at a higher difficulty.
And there it is. The whole point of all of this.
/thread
There's no hidden conspiracy to leech a few more coins of gold out of ZOS. That's just how games work.
Yeah. Why wouldn't you want more rewards for higher difficulty? What would the point even be to running at a higher difficulty if you didn't get anything to show for it?
This was never a discussion about more challenge. It was always, and will always, be a dishonestly presented discussion about trying to finagle more shinies out of the devs, whether those shinies come in the form of gear or titles or being catered to despite being an insignificant minority of the playerbase.
No, that's your point of view, for more effort you want bigger rewards. However, there are people for whom the challenge and necessity of overcoming difficulties and then knowing that they have managed to do it is reward enough in itself. This is why many single player games have difficulty levels, this is why games like DarkSouls are so popular.
You measure other people by comparing them to yourself, and that's not the right approach.I'm done with this game because of ZOS pushing us into Vengeance, because they don't know how to fix Cyrodiil.6 -
Nemo78✭✭✭These "too easy" threads...
I think it's clear that the vast majority of the players like the game as it is.
Just a few elitist players want it hard.4 -
Vindold✭✭✭There is no other game around such an easy storyline. Everytime a chapter comes up you just kill anyone like moises opening the red sea. Now with companions it's even more ridiculous. A boss fight takes 1.5 minutes. It´s absolutely a turn off. In SWTOR for example, any froup of mobs takes longer to kill than a boss in this game. Farming gear just for trials it's not the way to keep you in a game. Please level up difficulty
I absolutely agree with you...easy story content combined with shared story instances is just the final nail in the coffin.
Completely ruins all immersion -_-
I think difficulty should be based on your iLvL+CP, at least storyline content.
The only positive thing about easy overland content is...farming.Edited by Vindold on June 24, 2021 10:20AM4 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭These "too easy" threads...
I think it's clear that the vast majority of the players like the game as it is.
Just a few elitist players want it hard.
To repeat what I said earlierB: Stop being an elitist!
A: Many of us play casually, that doesn't mean we want the questing experience to be braindead easy.
We get constantly told by people “Well everyone has different experiences” only for those same people to then completely disregard the different experiences of others.
"It's easy so then everyone can enjoy it"
Ok well not everyone is enjoying it, many not being "Hardcore MMO Players" and those of us that aren't enjoying the experience would like it fixed.
Edited to fix grammarEdited by Iccotak on June 24, 2021 10:29AM5 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭These "too easy" threads...
I think it's clear that the vast majority of the players like the game as it is.
Just a few elitist players want it hard.
Why do you think that? The majority on these threads seem to want more difficulty options. I get that those are the very people likely to be drawn to these threads - but what basis do you use on your assumption that the vast majority like it as is?
And even then, what's wrong with making content that doesn't suit the vast majority? The vast majority do not PVP and do not run Vet trials.. yet they exist.Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.4
This discussion has been closed.