trackdemon5512 wrote: »

PVP is seriously toxic and barely, if ever, moderated.

It comes across as infantile. I’ve spent 4 years playing this game and PVE chat is downright saintly compared to PvP trash talking.

There’s so much racism, misspelling, hate, cursing that it’s a turn off.

And then PVP players have the gall to whine about literally everything but mainly that Cyrodiil is broken and there is nothing for them to do. Meanwhile they seem to have no problem spending 24 hours in Cyrodiil boosting AP, ganking questers and hate-whispering them about it, and just engaging in literal trollish behavior.

So yeah a lot of PvE players don’t find PVP worth their time.

Funny that you said this because Pve is just as toxic.. if not more than PvP. At least in PvP people don't criticize your lack of dps in the PvP community. you're still welcome to be part of the group. if you're not pulling the amount of DPS that Alcast or Liko is pulling on a parse dummy.. you can't be a part of the core group.. which means no veteran progression for dlc trials for you.. No skin achievements until you become like Alcast. I mean.. what? I can't count how many times I've seen core pvers advertising in craglorn zone that they're selling carries for millions of gold.

Yes.. there are a lot of crappy things that go on in PvP too. I won't deny it.. both PvE and the PvP are equally ***.. but if I had to pick my poison.. I would have to go with the PvP community.. Pve is just too narcissistic for me to deal with.

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Theo_VVS wrote: »

Doesn’t spamming the same rotation at a trial boss all day get boring? With PvP it’s never a boring moment and always different outcomes.

One could also ask ''Doesn't playing horse simulator in hopes of finding one good fight, and for skills to fire, get boring?'' but would display the same shallow understanding, like the question above. Finding ways to do mechanics or even surpass them by coordinating a group of 12 people is really interesting, and while the content is the same, the fact that people still run it and find new ways to clear it, faster, or by using certain builds, etc., speaks to the enjoyment of PvE. That's true even for solo content, there are players who still talk about vMA builds and mechanics all these years later. While rotations can be pretty standard, doing them while the world is burning around you? Not so easy, just ask everyone currently progging Rockgrove. Plus, there's always something different to do depending on the content. Most groups who score push have custom builds and skills for every single encounter (not to mention prebuffing, and nowdays also CP presets), and these are complicated set-ups with a lot of thought put into them, and at that level, combat is a lot more reactive than you'd think. PvE is not just end-game though, it's also immersing yourself into another world, and choosing to adventure in different ways: as a hero, a wizard, a thief, a soldier, etc., and people in RP communities make all kinds of interesting impositions on their characters, and try to go through content with those in mind. I'm a PvEr, I like PvP and spend time in Cyro too, but I don't need to belittle it in order to exhalt the many pleasures to be found in PvE.

PvE still has challenges for me, so that's where I focus my time. I dabble in PvP, but I only have so many hours in the day.

On the old gaming personality test, I would always score highest in the Explorer category, and lowest in the Killer (if not completely zero in that aspect). However, I *have* enjoyed PvP in other games. Old school DAoC, I loved defending my realm's keep. However, I've not found a game since that has felt like that, and I completely burned myself out at my attempts over the *decades* since trying to find that again. So, I gave up, because all those attempts got me was an absolute hatred for the system, mostly (but not only!) due to toxic interactions with other players.

Why do I hate PvP? It's simply my personality. I'm not a competitor. I'm not much of an achiever, or rather I'm very specific as to the achievements I find worthy of achieving. I explore, I take things slow, I frequently solo and even there I'm not even looking to make myself a 'can solo everything' kind of gaming goddess because intense theory crafting of that sort tends to make my brain bleed out of my eyes. Sometimes my ears. Either way, it's icky.

This doesn't mean I'm anti-PvP entirely. If people enjoy it, that's great! Have fun! That's why we're all here in the end, isn't it? To have fun, in whatever ways finding that fun is for each of us? But this should answer what I, personally, have against PvP. And as it's personal, I keep it personal.

I hope MYM is fun for any and all who will take part in it.

Primarily a PvE soloist here.

My healer swore off Cyrodiil when she could not heal ungrouped allies. That was fixed. I understand there is still a group size limit of 12. I fondly recall being welcomed into larger PvP keep running groups even though I openly admitted to being a PvE setup player (gear/skills). But with a limit of 12, joining such a group is a non happening thing (with a limit of 12, who wants PvE 'fodder' in their group?). Those have been my only 'technical' complaints.

As far as Midyear Mayhem, that is about the only time I go to Cyrodiil and do so fully embracing that I am a PvE'er entering the realm of PvP. I don't expect the PvP environment to conform to my wants or desires. My healer is a Sergeant of Wall Repair with Alliance skilled ranked at 10 so I've no need to grind AP anymore. So my Midyear Mayhem trips to Cyrodiil are mostly for extra transmute crystals and event tix.

The main reason I've no interest in PvP is that I play to spend time with my elf - not other humans. That is the same reason that, even in PvE, I only rarely run group activities. The fact that ESO is multiplayer is a drawback that I happily live with because of its beauty, mass and scale (which dwarfs Oblivion/Skyrim combined).

I'm not competitive and I do not like unexpected. I do not enjoy improvisation. I like to plan and to proceed with my plans at my pace. which is antithesis of pvp.

Pve is like learning a dance or a song and then performing that dance or a song. especially group content is like learning a complex harmony and when you get it right, you end up with something beautiful. pve is at its core - cooperative, and even when you play for challenge, you are generaly challenging yourself and your own abilities.

pvp is... improvisation. it can also be beautiful in its own way, but for some of us it is extremely unbearably stressful. there is only so much planning you can do when it comes to pvp because people you go up against? ARE working against you, doing their best to undermine, ruin your plans to win. you are being challenged by other people and degree of challenge is on THEIR terms, not yours.

and when it comes to events? they tend to revolve around doing pve activities while in pvp environments. so you go in with specific plans, facing people whose plan is to ruin your plans. and its not fun. because it feels like your time is wasted rather then being well spent.

For me, the amount of time and effort I want to put into the game, combined with my old age reflexes allows me to beat about 1% of the current pvp population. There is little point in engaging in combat that I will lose consistently so if I'm in Cyrodiil, I'll be repairing walls, healing from the back or surfing the zergs. Total respect to the players that have the skill to 1 v 1 and 1 v x but that's just not me. Tried it, died repeatedly without learning much apparently and went back to my pve activities which I find much more rewarding overall.

Now if something ever changed in Cyrodiil and the population as a whole was much more casual, I could probably enjoy myself more, but I find that's just not the case currently.

I come here to hang out with friends, do story, craft a bit and help when I’m able. I don’t have the desire to get better for self satisfaction nor do I intend on turning this into a job or alternate schooling. If you find your fun in being competitive be it pve arenas/trials or pvp that’s great just know there’s something for everyone, there’s no one size fits all for gaming experiences.

I played plenty of competitive games through the years; FF11, Battlefield 2, Aion, Planetside 2 and many others but I’m at the age where I couldn’t fathom a pvp only game like Fortnite or the many other battle royale clones it spawned. Have fun playing how you want and good luck with the event!

Theo_VVS wrote: »

OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »

Theo_VVS wrote: »

OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »

Don’t you get tired of having to redo your gear for the changing meta?

Never I just developed a new build.

So do pve players. What is the point of this thread really?

Just been seeing a lot of bashing on PvP due to the upcoming event. Really just wondering what’s with all the negativity?

Several issues arise when PvEers go to PvP. You have the million vs. 1 lonely player. You have the guys who use 1 skill to show their "PvPness" and then call you names. You have the ones who when you DO get to 1v1 have their friend pop out and stabby McStab you because you're winning.

Alot of it boils down to the mindset of many PvPers. PvEers are nothing but farming material for better numbers. And that's not what PvP is intended to be. "Look at me and my epic e-peen because I killed all the noobs" is a bad look on ANYONE. And the hate and toxicity that comes from those that gloat is enough to turn anyone away. Everyone always wants more people, different people, to PvP but if that's the way you treat people who are trying to learn, WANT to learn, WANT to PvP...you need to rethink your approach.

I am a PvEer who does enjoy the occasional PvP. I've gotten rickrolled not paying attention. Ganged up on when I've been stupid enough to really be alone. Some guys have been nice enough to mow me over and move on, some emote over me and laugh. But if you want new players, you have to be able to stop the bad behavior. Battlegrounds? Quit the premades so that you always winwinwinwin and everyone loseslosesloses because of course it's more fun to win and you get your randoms done and of course we have big e-peens because we're better at this than you, go away noob. But you don't see how discouraging it is to people who have never done it, or are still learning it, to just stand there and do nothing because why bother? You can't stay alive long enough to learn, especially if you're in places that are heavily active. And that's what it boils down to is being discouraged because a PvEer walking in to any PvP is automatically at a disadvantage and inevitably gets destroyed and mocked and told L2P because they're trying something new. Cyro things tend to be different because the playstyle is different and it's made to be a zergfest. I have no problem with Cyro and usually the base there isn't too bad (usually). But IC and BG? You have a big problem with attitude and those with the superiority complex.

drunkendx wrote: »

lillybit wrote: »

For me there's a few reason. Mostly I'm not at all competitive in that way. I don't have to be better than anyone other than myself. PvE suits me, learning mechanics and improving enough to get achievements.

That said I do like to PvP sometimes, but it's the tactics I enjoy, not killing people - so I guess it comes down to another kind of PvE with less predictable mechanics!

More or less same with me.
I'm not competitive. I play to relax, not challenge myself. and I don't understand that "my peepee grows when winning PVP" mentality.

IF i do BG's I love it when I get CTR, since that's only actually fun BG for me. Also I hate it when doing daily BG I'm carrying my team, and I can't win 1on1 even if it was my life on the line.

What I REALLY dislike in PVP are griefers. And their excuses for griefing others (like: "you're in PVP zone, expect to be griefed").
If ZOS would make no PVP Cyro and IC an DLC, I'd instantly buy it, even if it was 10k+ crowns.

IC would be great as DLC. Another problem with losing in BG is the fact that many in there just farm the kills instead of actually playing the game, and many of those farmers are banking on ignorant PvEers/new PvEers to get those numbers. I've been on teams that we've lost simply because all the other ones did was farm people.

For a few weeks there when the no-proc thing was new, PVP was a blast again. People were on roughly even footings. There was some imbalance, even right at the beginning, but mostly it was a fun, challenging, keep-you-on-your-toes gameplay. REACTIVE gameplay, rather than the PREDICTIVE gameplay of PVE. It was PVP at its best. It was what PVP should be. It didn't last, because people quickly figured out how to give themselves advantages even in no-proc, but for a shining moment, ESO PVP wasn't a cesspool.

Apparently, the PVP community largely hated it.

This isn't just on ZOS. This is on the ESO PVP community, too. They didn't want balance. They didn't want reactive gameplay against challenging opponents on a roughly even footing. They wanted advantages. They felt cheated not being able to theorycraft their way into advantages. They despised the short couple of weeks where only a tiny number of people had figured out how to have high resistance, massive health, the ability to heal to full from 1/4 health even though specced healers can't pull that off, and nonsensical burst damage.

They wanted back the ability to sit in stealth through an entire siege just so they could bomb several players unable to put up even the slightest defense because they're stuck in repair animation at the door. I can't even conceive of doing that without being sickened at oneself, but some players were mad it was gone, and hey! It's back!

During no-proc, they managed to find ways to pull off imitation ball groups, but that just wasn't good enough. Who wants a good fight against foes that present a challenge when being part of a runaway bulldozer mowing over everything in its path is available? Well, it's back. No more risk of the other team having anything but a miserable experience! After all, that's what PVP is, right? It's not about competition against challenging opponents. It's about ruining someone else's day.

There've been times in this game where PVP was a blast. But the imbalance has gotten way out of hand. No one seems to want balance.

They want Light Armor users to fall over at the very sight of a two-hander. (Seriously, I got a hate tell from someone recently after a 1v1 because I kept streaking away and turning back to attack. He eventually won and then sent me a hate tell for dragging out the fight instead of just standing there and taking a D-Swing/Executioner combo to the face. That's how bad it's gotten: 2H MA users feel entitled to quick wins against LA users!)

They want to cast four delayed abilities and a fifth instant-cast ability so all five land at the same time. Boom! Effectively a one-shot. Reactive combat? Who had time for that? Winning is all that matters.

Balance in this game has become an atrocity, and every single attempt to improve balance since before Morrowind had made balance worse. The number of players who can't even wrap their brains around the idea of thinking it's gross to take advantage of imbalance is high enough that if you want to compete at all your choices are join them or leave. I PVP less and enjoy myself less when I do so, but I still go in. With a good group, I can still have fun. But, of course, good groups are harder to find because the group size limit makes groups more selective on who they invite.

It all combines to drive away the players who are fun to PVP with and the players who are fun to PVP against.

This game used to have the best PVP I'd ever experienced. Both ZOS and the players share the blame for ruining that. It's not about good fights and a challenge anymore. It's not about reactive combat anymore. It's about finding advantages. It makes me want to take multiple showers.