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How importants is PvP for ESO
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Pauwer✭✭✭✭✭Like, if you are a pve player with trouble with random players' performance in a random dungeon, i don't think you are quite ready for pvp yet. But it will happen one day and hopefully cyro will still be up for the fun times ahead for you
0 -
Wing✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ESO was marketed as a pvp game, and early on patches had massive lists of pvp changes and improvements.
then when IC did so poorly and Wrothgar so well. . .
this by the way is sabotaged, IC was thrown out after a content drought due to ZOS working on ths console launch, and was met with a bunch of negativity due to the terrible PvEvP design that was a fad at the time *division dark zone anyone?* and that is still ruined by those decisions to this day, where as Wrothgar was literally released like a month later and still comparable to expansions due to zone quality, content quality, etc.
had the release of Wrothgar and IC been reversed, the game might be a little different, and IC not regarded with the toxicity it (somewhat justly, but due to ZOS system choices) gets.
they tossed the PvE content starved masses into a PvP pit (and you used to lose 90% tel var) thus the great classic divide bonfire between PvE and PvP players was stoked in ESO
then they released some of the best PvE content they have ever made a month later. . .
and then the lighting patch
while this patch is infamously called "the lighting patch" because its what was changed and PvP performance degraded,
what ACTUALLY happened was that due to cheat engine and duplication exploits that allowed people to give themselves unlimited gold mats, ZOS had to move alot of information that was previously dealt with client side to the server side of things, this prevented some exploiting,
and threw PvP performance under the bus.
and the rest is history, proc sets calcs, monsters sets introduced, mythics, CP, HoT's, etc.
more pings on the server, more lag in Cyro.
now its spreading into PvE, when Greymoor launched Harrowstorms lagged the zone like crazy, now with Blackwood the group event has been poorly sectioned off to its own instance to prevent so many pings in a single zone.
this is it people, this is the point were you see sections of the game and events redesigned due to poor performance, rather then design intention.
Edited by Wing on June 22, 2021 11:17AMESO player since beta.
game got too disappointing.6 -
zelaminator✭✭✭✭✭
✭StamPlar_1976 wrote: »zelaminator wrote: »
And of course we find none of that in pve..... 🙄🙄
We find it everywhere, but it's a lot more pronounced in the Cyrodiil chat
ESO was marketed as a pvp game
Where.? To my knowledge, it was marked as an RPG with PvP elementsEdited by zelaminator on June 22, 2021 11:23AM4 -
Jazraena✭✭✭✭✭
✭PvP in ESO will never be truly important, simply because it's so utterly inaccessible for most players.
I'm sure there's fun to be had in both Battlegrounds or Cyrodiil, but it requires too much time investment - most of which will be filled with frustration at first - to be viable for people just occasionally PvPing on the side.
Which is a shame. I tend to like PvP in most MMOs, but everytime I try in ESO I get reminded why I stopped bothering during my last attempt.3 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PvP in ESO will never be truly important, simply because it's so utterly inaccessible for most players.
I'm sure there's fun to be had in both Battlegrounds or Cyrodiil, but it requires too much time investment - most of which will be filled with frustration at first - to be viable for people just occasionally PvPing on the side.
Which is a shame. I tend to like PvP in most MMOs, but everytime I try in ESO I get reminded why I stopped bothering during my last attempt.
If you're afraid of time investments then maybe MMOs in general aren't the best thing for you.2 -
Ksariyu✭✭✭✭The biggest problem with PvP is, it mostly attracts the personality that does not show mercy. Which is why most players who try it, will never touch it again. There is nothing wrong with this, but there needs to be a stepping stone into PvP. But whenever a suggestion is made to make PvP more beneficial to those that would keep losing PvP's, the PvP'ers won't let that happen.
This is more on the players who quit after a couple of deaths, they weren't a PvP material to start with. If you don't come to Cyrodiil with a live-die-repeat mindset, you won't stay.
@nukk3r @Alucardo With Cyrodiil specifically, it's less a problem that people can't accept failure and more a problem that it's so heavily punished. I wouldn't mind dying in a fight if A. It didn't happen in less than 30 seconds from starting the fight, and B. I didn't have to walk literally 5+ minutes to get back to the fight. Even if you go in with the mindset of improving rather than winning, it's just not a fun experience getting zero value from 90% of your playtime. No other competitive game operates like this, and for a reason. Even Planetside at least lets you back into the fight with minimal downtime.Edited by Ksariyu on June 22, 2021 11:37AM3 -
zelaminator✭✭✭✭✭
✭ESO was marketed as a pvp game, and early on patches had massive lists of pvp changes and improvements.
then when IC did so poorly and Wrothgar so well. . .
this by the way is sabotaged, IC was thrown out after a content drought due to ZOS working on ths console launch, and was met with a bunch of negativity due to the terrible PvEvP design that was a fad at the time *division dark zone anyone?* and that is still ruined by those decisions to this day, where as Wrothgar was literally released like a month later and still comparable to expansions due to zone quality, content quality, etc.
had the release of Wrothgar and IC been reversed, the game might be a little different, and IC not regarded with the toxicity it (somewhat justly, but due to ZOS system choices) gets.
they tossed the PvE content starved masses into a PvP pit (and you used to lose 90% tel var) thus the great classic divide bonfire between PvE and PvP players was stoked in ESO
then they released some of the best PvE content they have ever made a month later. . .
and then the lighting patch
while this patch is infamously called "the lighting patch" because its what was changed and PvP performance degraded,
what ACTUALLY happened was that due to cheat engine and duplication exploits that allowed people to give themselves unlimited gold mats, ZOS had to move alot of information that was previously dealt with client side to the server side of things, this prevented some exploiting,
and threw PvP performance under the bus.
and the rest is history, proc sets calcs, monsters sets introduced, mythics, CP, HoT's, etc.
more pings on the server, more lag in Cyro.
now its spreading into PvE, when Greymoor launched Harrowstorms lagged the zone like crazy, now with Blackwood the group event has been poorly sectioned off to its own instance to prevent so many pings in a single zone.
this is it people, this is the point were you see sections of the game and events redesigned due to poor performance, rather then design intention.The biggest problem with PvP is, it mostly attracts the personality that does not show mercy. Which is why most players who try it, will never touch it again. There is nothing wrong with this, but there needs to be a stepping stone into PvP. But whenever a suggestion is made to make PvP more beneficial to those that would keep losing PvP's, the PvP'ers won't let that happen.
This is more on the players who quit after a couple of deaths, they weren't a PvP material to start with. If you don't come to Cyrodiil with a live-die-repeat mindset, you won't stay.
@nukk3r With Cyrodiil specifically, it's less a problem that people can't accept failure and more a problem that it's so heavily punished. I wouldn't mind dying in a fight if A. It didn't happen in less than 30 seconds from starting the fight, and B. I didn't have to walk literally 5+ minutes to get back to the fight. Even if you go in with the mindset of improving rather than winning, it's just not a fun experience getting zero value from 90% of your playtime. No other competitive game operates like this, and for a reason. Even Planetside at least lets you back into the fight with minimal downtime.
Travel time is a killer, true enough.. having a slow mount is such a big punishment in PvP.. you lose out on fights, and you can't keep up with your group0 -
Sarannah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
It's true, there needs to be a way for players to get into PvP. And in a way that does not place them against the best of the best without any chance of winning, and without any incentives. This leads to empty zones, like the Imperial City is now.OlumoGarbag wrote: »I'd be fine if they removed PvP completely. It ruins the game's balance, the focus on fixing Cyrodiil is just too taxing on the other parts of the game, and it divides the playerbase into two camps.
The biggest problem with PvP is, it mostly attracts the personality that does not show mercy. Which is why most players who try it, will never touch it again. There is nothing wrong with this, but there needs to be a stepping stone into PvP. But whenever a suggestion is made to make PvP more beneficial to those that would keep losing PvP's, the PvP'ers won't let that happen.
Personally I'd treat Cyrodiil as PvP endgame, and make the Imperial City a new-to-PvP zone. Let all mobs grant a slight amount of AP and telvar, and make the telvar loss on death only 10%. This would allow players, like me, to step into PvP. Yes we might get killed, but we won't walk away with nothing, like we do now. We'd have some AP, and some telvar to show for our efforts. While we do engage in PvP, even if it might not be much/often, the risk is there. But it would offer a stepping stone, and maybe get more players into PvP.
Lul what are you talking about?
Actually, except the CP nerf. All of those are PvP nerfs. PvP crit needed to get nerfed, armor rebalance was because of players not/barely dying in PvP. And player tankyness keeps getting nerfed due to PvP. Most of the changes to damage and armor, are based on PvP. Like the downsides to armour types.OlumoGarbag wrote: »Yes some changes affect pve as well but most of the changes for PVE endgame were for PVE sake. CP 2.0, crit nerf, armor rebalance non of that was for pvp. And i also think its a good thing pve wise to scale proc sets of max stats. Thats how it should be.
Low level Cyrodiil and BG's are useless, learning-wise. This is all about which class gets an OP skill before another does, and then they will rule that zone/level-bracket. Nothing to learn there, even though low level BG's can be fun. Low MMR BG's do not actually exist, as there are too few players playing BG's. MMR sounds good on paper, but in reality it may as well not exist. Especially during low population hours. And objective driven BG's VS pvp-driven BG's means there is still barely any learning about actual PvP. As even when there is PvP in those, it is usually multiple players vs one.OlumoGarbag wrote: »And the stepping stone.... we have low lvl cyrodiil, low lvl bgs, low mmr bgs, 90% of bgs are objective driven and dont actually reward player interaction.
I would say pvp is as casual friendly as it ever was, but they removed alot of the nobrainers like proctanks, that could make any pver into a endgame pvp player,
The only way to have an actual stepping stone into PvP, is to have it at the max level, level 50-CP160. And the best way to do this, is to use an already existing zone, like IC, and make it new-to-PvP friendly. By getting more and more players into the zone, while risking PvP, so they can eventually grow into PvP.
Dying over and over, getting loading screens over and over, having to walk back over and over, knowing you lost half your telvar... that is not fun. Especially not when there is no gain at all. Noone learns from that. The only thing that happens is, players leave PvP to never come back. Which is where we are now.
What my idea promotes is to get players to go: "I was in the IC for an hour last night, and gained 1 alliance rank from mobs, even though I lost all PvP's I was in. I got killed a few times, but the last fight, it took them longer to kill me ." This would make players hang out in a zone, with the risk of PvP. Allowing them to grow.
PS: I feel proc sets actually hurt the PvP learning-curve. And think ZOS should remove proc sets from PvP entirely. As I feel players should grow in PvP, and not use cheesy sets.2 -
ResidentContrarian✭✭✭✭✭Obviously, PvP cannot be too important if builds that are mathematically superior to all other builds (and near invincible) get pushed out every patch despite player input.
Certain builds have way too much power relative to others, and it's sad that players will enter Midyear Mayhem and become fodder for players using such builds, regardless of skill.0 -
nukk3r✭✭✭✭✭
✭The biggest problem with PvP is, it mostly attracts the personality that does not show mercy. Which is why most players who try it, will never touch it again. There is nothing wrong with this, but there needs to be a stepping stone into PvP. But whenever a suggestion is made to make PvP more beneficial to those that would keep losing PvP's, the PvP'ers won't let that happen.
This is more on the players who quit after a couple of deaths, they weren't a PvP material to start with. If you don't come to Cyrodiil with a live-die-repeat mindset, you won't stay.
@nukk3r @Alucardo With Cyrodiil specifically, it's less a problem that people can't accept failure and more a problem that it's so heavily punished. I wouldn't mind dying in a fight if A. It didn't happen in less than 30 seconds from starting the fight, and B. I didn't have to walk literally 5+ minutes to get back to the fight. Even if you go in with the mindset of improving rather than winning, it's just not a fun experience getting zero value from 90% of your playtime. No other competitive game operates like this, and for a reason. Even Planetside at least lets you back into the fight with minimal downtime.
Everyone was heavily punished when they started. No one magically mastered PvP in a day. You make mistakes and you learn from them.
A. Build either for tankiness or more damage. You'll either live long enough to do meaningful damage or straight up outdamage your opponents. Almost every adverse situation has its counterplay.
B. Forward camps exist for a reason. If your group/zerg you're surfing doesn't use them, put one up yourself. It's only 20k AP, and it can turn the tide. There's no such thing as a wasted forward camp.3 -
Jazraena✭✭✭✭✭
✭PvP in ESO will never be truly important, simply because it's so utterly inaccessible for most players.
I'm sure there's fun to be had in both Battlegrounds or Cyrodiil, but it requires too much time investment - most of which will be filled with frustration at first - to be viable for people just occasionally PvPing on the side.
Which is a shame. I tend to like PvP in most MMOs, but everytime I try in ESO I get reminded why I stopped bothering during my last attempt.
If you're afraid of time investments then maybe MMOs in general aren't the best thing for you.
Cut the exasperated defensiveness for a moment and think instead of hogwash ad hominem arguments. Dropping into Cyrodiil with inevitably start out like this:
- You ride somewhere for far too long. If you're lucky, you find action. More likely, stuff isn't happening, already over or you die randomly out of nowhere.
- You can't make heads or tails out of your deaths - they feel like oneshots - or why your targets are only taking 300 damage per hit instead of the 5000+ you are expecting. Partly this is because of atrocious performance simply not showing you all the skills going off that you then see in your recap, and partly this is because ESO doesn't really give you much feedback to work with unless you have intricate knowledge of what to look for.
- You try to find a group to at least move with others instead of dying alone. Half of the time you try, you get no response over the course of a full hour - the reduction to size 12 groups in particular has made this a problem. The other times, your group is still scattered about so it doesn't really do anything, randomly dies to another group as if it wasn't there to reasons you cannot explain, and occasionally you get some good siegework going and actually get AP out of it. Not that it helps you actually getting better quickly, because as a new player you still mostly support the group and die when someone more experienced looks your way.
Now, don't get me wrong. All these problems are solvable - minus the performance issues, obviously - with time. Learn about abilities, sets, draw up a proper build, tinker and tweak after seeing the weaknesses in play. And all of that is stuff a casual player is not going to do, because he quit trying many hours before ever getting at least a modicum of success.
Heck, I am not going to bother much with it; not because I'm somehow inherently opposed, but because PvP will always be only one of many things I do in this game - and a secondary thing at that.
I can barely keep pace regearing for their sweeping PvE changes, I'm not going to add a shifting PvP Meta ontop of that. And if I as someone actually investing time into this game contrary to your eyeroll assumption won't do that... what do you reckon the chances are for the far more numerous casual players?
Having fun in PvP requires a mindset and time commitment that is a ludicrous minority, I'm afraid.3 -
Jierdanit✭✭✭✭✭
✭PvP crit needed to get nerfed
What?
At that point nearly anyone who wanted to use a meta PvP build was playing Malacath, so they did not even have crit at all.
While in PvE crit still is the best thing to increase your DPS.
I really doubt that PvP has anything to do with a crit nerf, since crit builds are all niche in PvP while they are meta in PvE lolWhat my idea promotes is to get players to go: "I was in the IC for an hour last night, and gained 1 alliance rank from mobs, even though I lost all PvP's I was in. I got killed a few times, but the last fight, it took them longer to kill me ." This would make players hang out in a zone, with the risk of PvP. Allowing them to grow.
I really doubt that that would change anything, because I dont think most players quit PvP because they get no reward out of it, but because they cant compete.
And a little AP or Telvar wont help with them not being able to compete, since it still takes a quite long time until you are able to compete on some level with people who PvPed for years.PS: I feel proc sets actually hurt the PvP learning-curve. And think ZOS should remove proc sets from PvP entirely. As I feel players should grow in PvP, and not use cheesy sets.
I do agree with that part. It first off certainly doesnt help players when they die against proc sets, because it is much harder to make out what killed you when half of the damage came from Sets your enemy had equipped and not from stuff he actually did.
And also the other way around it doesnt help new players get better in PvP if their gear kills the enemy for them and they dont actually have to learn how to properly combo someone without relying on their sets to do the damage.
Edited by Jierdanit on June 22, 2021 12:02PMPC/EU, StamSorc Main1 -
Raeyleigh✭✭✭The by far biggest streamer only pvps and the majority of bigger streams are pvp ones.
This is adding insult to injury for the pvp community and was probably done to prevent broadcasting Zo$'s failures and neglect.
The pvp community is far larger than it seems, its just that most are on breaks due to poor performance, poor balance and no new content, many even indefinetly. You'd be surprised how many people would come back to this game tomorrow if someone told them the performance was fixed.
PvP is also sadly the most neglected part of the game. On several occasions Zo$ decided to canabalize their own server performance, mainly to the detrement of pvp and the problem has never been fixed in all these years.
There is no real new content for pvp since morrowind.
The rewards are also garbage. 95% of all cool sets, titles, skins, scores for bragging rights and other shenanigans are found in PvE. Of course fewer new players will try it when there is nothing to gain there.
Its also hard to pick up for new players. Not because it is that hard, but because there is nothing that prepares you for it.
All of questing, overland and normal content can be done with a naked character while playing with your feet. The game doesnt even manage to prepare new players for pve veteran content, expecting newbies to tackle actually thinking human opposition is ridiclious given that most of them never got to even learn the very basic mechanics of the game.
The only bone that ever gets thrown are some balance changes and most of those are not exactly helping. I always have to giggle when i see someone claim "pve suffers because of pvp".
The proc set changes are the brightest example. Those were buffed to no avail to the detrement of pvp in the first place and we had to live with that for almost an entire year. Then when they get balanced to a state that is in most cases still superior to their original values suddenly its "pvpers crying ruins the gear of pvers". Absolutly ridiclious.
It's not even the end game pve players that complain, its the casual "play how you want" "effectiveness doesnt really matter" crowd doing content that can be beaten naked.
And not to forget the regular outcry when people have to pvp for rewards in midyear mayhem, while pvp players have to go into pve to get their stuff every single day. Yes, sure, of course we need a pve quester version of cyrodiil, whatever you say.
The pvp community is treated unfairly not only by Zo$ themselves but also the other in game communities.
There is just never a response because the pvp community is such a beaten dog already who doesnt care anymore and just wants some performance improvements and maybe, just maybe some good balance and improvements for already existing content.5 -
Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't think it's very important for our producer, but I think there's a genuine player fan base out there and it does attract people as the campaigns are pop locked each evening. Albeit one could say 'Yes, but they nerfed the alliance population lock' -> It still has the capacity to attract guild orientated groups as it requires a minimum of research, planning and group tactics, but at the end of the day these people probably just get as frustrated as the solo player who is unable to use a door, siege, skills and has had the mishap of using his Psijic ultimate instead of his front bar and is now stuck between a rock and a hard place until he/her is pew pew'd to death in the dark and stormy sea of lag which is Cyrodill.
We had numerous tests over these past two years and some of them were just plainly unplayable for certain classes. We packed up our goods and went elsewhere during that and you could even say that some guilds suffered dearly from that period and didn't reassemble afterwards.
The current Meta; I think we can all agree (veteran PvP players), that the current patch is one for the masses (proc sets and their new rules, nerf to battle spirit, return of cross heals). So for me they are trying to bring in some players whom would have perhaps not done PvP before although the downside is as always -> Zerg no skill play and/or players refusing to fight unless they have the upper hand in numbers.
All in all most of us enjoy PvP, but we cannot deny that it's not a pleasant experience for certain long periods of time due to server/game code. We play it because of habit, friends and time invested. We truly are a nice and patient community.
In conclusion:
For me the PvP aspect of the game is important (50%-60% of my time in game)
For the producer it's secondary obviously due the lack of interest and communication concerning player vs player environments in ESO.
Edited by Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo on June 22, 2021 12:40PM2 -
Supreme_Atromancer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭As someone who absolutely loves PvP, it absolutely IS full of toxic tryhards and behaviour that drives a lot of people away. Its hard not to find the irony in everyone saying "if you don't like people acting like back-of-the-schoolbus, loudmouth grommits, maybe pvp isn't for you" then turning around and finding so few people left.
Its been fringe for a very long time. The performance has been terrible forever, and has only gotten worse, and the drastic swings (especially in the last year) has driven off a lot of the small percent that remained. ZOS probably wasn't super motivated to invest in that direction because only a small part of the community is going to enjoy carrying on like that.2 -
Alurria✭✭✭✭✭
✭If pvp went away tomorrow it would not affect me at all. I would feel bad for those that do play it, but I also feel there are other pvp games out there more suited to pvpers.5 -
Dagre2✭✭✭
It's true, there needs to be a way for players to get into PvP. And in a way that does not place them against the best of the best without any chance of winning, and without any incentives. This leads to empty zones, like the Imperial City is now.OlumoGarbag wrote: »I'd be fine if they removed PvP completely. It ruins the game's balance, the focus on fixing Cyrodiil is just too taxing on the other parts of the game, and it divides the playerbase into two camps.
The biggest problem with PvP is, it mostly attracts the personality that does not show mercy. Which is why most players who try it, will never touch it again. There is nothing wrong with this, but there needs to be a stepping stone into PvP. But whenever a suggestion is made to make PvP more beneficial to those that would keep losing PvP's, the PvP'ers won't let that happen.
Personally I'd treat Cyrodiil as PvP endgame, and make the Imperial City a new-to-PvP zone. Let all mobs grant a slight amount of AP and telvar, and make the telvar loss on death only 10%. This would allow players, like me, to step into PvP. Yes we might get killed, but we won't walk away with nothing, like we do now. We'd have some AP, and some telvar to show for our efforts. While we do engage in PvP, even if it might not be much/often, the risk is there. But it would offer a stepping stone, and maybe get more players into PvP.
Lul what are you talking about?
Actually, except the CP nerf. All of those are PvP nerfs. PvP crit needed to get nerfed, armor rebalance was because of players not/barely dying in PvP. And player tankyness keeps getting nerfed due to PvP. Most of the changes to damage and armor, are based on PvP. Like the downsides to armour types.OlumoGarbag wrote: »Yes some changes affect pve as well but most of the changes for PVE endgame were for PVE sake. CP 2.0, crit nerf, armor rebalance non of that was for pvp. And i also think its a good thing pve wise to scale proc sets of max stats. Thats how it should be.
Low level Cyrodiil and BG's are useless, learning-wise. This is all about which class gets an OP skill before another does, and then they will rule that zone/level-bracket. Nothing to learn there, even though low level BG's can be fun. Low MMR BG's do not actually exist, as there are too few players playing BG's. MMR sounds good on paper, but in reality it may as well not exist. Especially during low population hours. And objective driven BG's VS pvp-driven BG's means there is still barely any learning about actual PvP. As even when there is PvP in those, it is usually multiple players vs one.OlumoGarbag wrote: »And the stepping stone.... we have low lvl cyrodiil, low lvl bgs, low mmr bgs, 90% of bgs are objective driven and dont actually reward player interaction.
I would say pvp is as casual friendly as it ever was, but they removed alot of the nobrainers like proctanks, that could make any pver into a endgame pvp player,
The only way to have an actual stepping stone into PvP, is to have it at the max level, level 50-CP160. And the best way to do this, is to use an already existing zone, like IC, and make it new-to-PvP friendly. By getting more and more players into the zone, while risking PvP, so they can eventually grow into PvP.
Dying over and over, getting loading screens over and over, having to walk back over and over, knowing you lost half your telvar... that is not fun. Especially not when there is no gain at all. Noone learns from that. The only thing that happens is, players leave PvP to never come back. Which is where we are now.
What my idea promotes is to get players to go: "I was in the IC for an hour last night, and gained 1 alliance rank from mobs, even though I lost all PvP's I was in. I got killed a few times, but the last fight, it took them longer to kill me ." This would make players hang out in a zone, with the risk of PvP. Allowing them to grow.
PS: I feel proc sets actually hurt the PvP learning-curve. And think ZOS should remove proc sets from PvP entirely. As I feel players should grow in PvP, and not use cheesy sets.
to put it quite simply, like the majority of mmorpgs, people that are actually interested in learning pvp, duel. that's it, end of story. want to get better? duel.
people can complain, justly or unjustly, about the pvp issues any mmo has but when it comes right down to it, you always see the ones that are serious about learning, dueling.1 -
Jazraena✭✭✭✭✭
✭The by far biggest streamer only pvps and the majority of bigger streams are pvp ones.
This is adding insult to injury for the pvp community and was probably done to prevent broadcasting Zo$'s failures and neglect.
The pvp community is far larger than it seems, its just that most are on breaks due to poor performance, poor balance and no new content, many even indefinetly. You'd be surprised how many people would come back to this game tomorrow if someone told them the performance was fixed.
You confuse stream subscribers with PvP players, and then somehow try to establish a relation to the number of active players for that game segment.
The vast, vast majority of players will never watch a stream, and large parts of the game will never get streamed no matter how many people engage in it. Many parts that do get streamed will not be watched necessarily by people actually engaging in that type of content, or even people that play the game.
As for the pointless player bashing; ZOS' futile attempts of balancing PvE and PvP simultaneously are hardly something you can argue about. It never works and has adverse effects for both game modes. But you could at least try not to reduce PvE to optimized trial groups in your disparaging.Edited by Jazraena on June 22, 2021 1:02PM2 -
Andre_Noir✭✭✭✭I'd be fine if they removed PvP completely. It ruins the game's balance, the focus on fixing Cyrodiil is just too taxing on the other parts of the game, and it divides the playerbase into two camps.
Oh please... The only thing ruin the game is "pro" PVE included iron atronach, payruns, "show ur logs", 4 dd/1t 3 dd runs, self-sustain tanks etc.
Almost 90% of sets and 1/2 of abilities are dead exactly because of dummy-lovers community exist.
I expect when Powerful Assault (a PVP dedicated set) will be nerfed the first who will flood the forum with their screams will be a dummy-lovers. And ofc they will scream: "It's all damned PVP ! Stop killing PVE !"5 -
Jazraena✭✭✭✭✭
✭Andre_Noir wrote: »I'd be fine if they removed PvP completely. It ruins the game's balance, the focus on fixing Cyrodiil is just too taxing on the other parts of the game, and it divides the playerbase into two camps.
Oh please... The only thing ruin the game is "pro" PVE included iron atronach, payruns, "show ur logs", 4 dd/1t 3 dd runs, self-sustain tanks etc.
Almost 90% of sets and 1/2 of abilities are dead exactly because of dummy-lovers community exist.
I expect when Powerful Assault (a PVP dedicated set) will be nerfed the first who will flood the forum with their screams will be a dummy-lovers. And ofc they will scream: "It's all damned PVP ! Stop killing PVE !"
Optimized trial groups are not all there is to PvE. There's plenty of build diversity a step below that. Or you know, was, before ZOS threw most proc sets for PvE under the bus completely. Why? Take a guess.
Now, it also happens the other way around. And it will keep happening until ZOS finally accepts that simultaneously balancing PvE and PvP is a fool's errand due to vastly different requirements.3 -
Andre_Noir✭✭✭✭Andre_Noir wrote: »I'd be fine if they removed PvP completely. It ruins the game's balance, the focus on fixing Cyrodiil is just too taxing on the other parts of the game, and it divides the playerbase into two camps.
Oh please... The only thing ruin the game is "pro" PVE included iron atronach, payruns, "show ur logs", 4 dd/1t 3 dd runs, self-sustain tanks etc.
Almost 90% of sets and 1/2 of abilities are dead exactly because of dummy-lovers community exist.
I expect when Powerful Assault (a PVP dedicated set) will be nerfed the first who will flood the forum with their screams will be a dummy-lovers. And ofc they will scream: "It's all damned PVP ! Stop killing PVE !"
Optimized trial groups are not all there is to PvE. There's plenty of build diversity a step below that. Or you know, was, before ZOS threw most proc sets for PvE under the bus completely. Why? Take a guess.
Now, it also happens the other way around. And it will keep happening until ZOS finally accepts that simultaneously balancing PvE and PvP is a fool's errand due to vastly different requirements.
Even in a RANDOM pledge runs all procs works the +/- same. It's easy to hit 6-7k SD with the same sets as before and even without any efforts most of the time. And that for DD's, because all meta sets for tanks and healers remain the same. So stop write bs plz0 -
Jazraena✭✭✭✭✭
✭There are numerous threads about the forum right now that elaborate, in detail, how in particular Magicka setups very much do not reach 6574 spell damage. Not even close, in fact, and those setups that do sacrifice so much other stats that you are at a net loss. Even stamina builds often fall short at around ~6000 weapon damage without Major Courage, which you are hardly guaranteed to have in dungeons, unless you specifically build for it - which, once again, is often a small net loss to total damage.
The end result is that stam proc sets - aside Relenquen - are just barely tolerable and mag proc sets hilariously useless even in dungeons, and once you're in an optimized group both are equally pointless anyway.Edited by Jazraena on June 22, 2021 1:17PM0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭zelaminator wrote: »
You just described many of the PVE guilds I was once in.Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.5
