How importants is PvP for ESO

Doc45

I don't PVP much, but I enjoy aspects of it. The rare times I go into PVP, the sound of the catapults takes me back to my first days of ESO and is enjoyable. ESO is my first MMO, and PVP is all I did 'til I hit level 50, which took awhile (weeks if not months), not the rush to 50 some seek to do in 2 hours of joining the game. A VERY small percent of players tie their egos to it as is the case in PVE. They're the loudest simply due to the fact they have their egos invested into it. PVP players are the ones that will call for nerfs most often as some can't accept their inexperience is the reason they're not dominating. Some of these same players will roll out a new character, put 'em in all legendary gear, and enter under 50 PVP to feel some sense of achievement. PVE players, on the other hand, often decry nerfs wanting the strongest gear possible to show off high parses while many times being absolutely abysmal in group settings. The two will always be at odds with each other, and many of the adjustments made over the years are pretty much unnecessary. In either PVP or PVE, I'd take a team player over someone wanting to show off any day. I've always been one of those players and suspect it's provided a more enjoyable experience overall.

NagualV

There are a lot of other good pvp games out there, sure, but this one happens to take place in the Elder Scrolls universe, and when performance is good, the combat is really good.

Pvp isnt for everyone, and that's totally fine, but it has a very important place in the game and it would be great to see what additional improvements in performance would do.

ThorianB

Alucardo wrote: »

ThorianB wrote: »

PVP isn't near as popular as it is made out to be on the forums. It is underdeveloped and has a constant plague of problems. PVP in ESO is just boring and unimaginative. Sometimes ZOS will toss it a very small and crappy bone but they don't put any real effort into doing anything with it. I assume they figured there was little ROI for putting effort into PVP.

So besides a couple of thousand diehards, no one really pays much attention to PVP. You are likely to get more views on your stream fishing than you are doing PVP.

You're right. PvPers like SypherPK and Fengrush didn't bring in any viewership. Oh wait.

Oh boy! I stand corrected. You have the Ninja and Shroud of ESO up in here! Sypher hasn't played ESO in 2-3 years AFAIK.

PVP in this game is dead and nearly nonexistent. I love PVP. I love PVP games. But i do live in reality. The reality is that PVP in ESO is terrible, as i mentioned in my OP, and almost no one that actually loves PVP wants to do it here.

They could make PVP in ESO better, but they won't as it's not worth a time investment. That tells you everything you need to know about PVP in ESO. Not enough people do it to make it worth the developer's time to do anything with it. They tried 3 times to do PVP and all 3 times failed( because of poor execution and support after it went live, IMO). I think they have buried that dead horse already and PVPers should to instead of living on hope and a dream.

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo

Dagre2 wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

I'd be fine if they removed PvP completely. It ruins the game's balance, the focus on fixing Cyrodiil is just too taxing on the other parts of the game, and it divides the playerbase into two camps.

The biggest problem with PvP is, it mostly attracts the personality that does not show mercy. Which is why most players who try it, will never touch it again. There is nothing wrong with this, but there needs to be a stepping stone into PvP. But whenever a suggestion is made to make PvP more beneficial to those that would keep losing PvP's, the PvP'ers won't let that happen.

Personally I'd treat Cyrodiil as PvP endgame, and make the Imperial City a new-to-PvP zone. Let all mobs grant a slight amount of AP and telvar, and make the telvar loss on death only 10%. This would allow players, like me, to step into PvP. Yes we might get killed, but we won't walk away with nothing, like we do now. We'd have some AP, and some telvar to show for our efforts. While we do engage in PvP, even if it might not be much/often, the risk is there. But it would offer a stepping stone, and maybe get more players into PvP.

Lul what are you talking about?

It's true, there needs to be a way for players to get into PvP. And in a way that does not place them against the best of the best without any chance of winning, and without any incentives. This leads to empty zones, like the Imperial City is now.

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

Yes some changes affect pve as well but most of the changes for PVE endgame were for PVE sake. CP 2.0, crit nerf, armor rebalance non of that was for pvp. And i also think its a good thing pve wise to scale proc sets of max stats. Thats how it should be.

Actually, except the CP nerf. All of those are PvP nerfs. PvP crit needed to get nerfed, armor rebalance was because of players not/barely dying in PvP. And player tankyness keeps getting nerfed due to PvP. Most of the changes to damage and armor, are based on PvP. Like the downsides to armour types.

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

And the stepping stone.... we have low lvl cyrodiil, low lvl bgs, low mmr bgs, 90% of bgs are objective driven and dont actually reward player interaction.
I would say pvp is as casual friendly as it ever was, but they removed alot of the nobrainers like proctanks, that could make any pver into a endgame pvp player,

Low level Cyrodiil and BG's are useless, learning-wise. This is all about which class gets an OP skill before another does, and then they will rule that zone/level-bracket. Nothing to learn there, even though low level BG's can be fun. Low MMR BG's do not actually exist, as there are too few players playing BG's. MMR sounds good on paper, but in reality it may as well not exist. Especially during low population hours. And objective driven BG's VS pvp-driven BG's means there is still barely any learning about actual PvP. As even when there is PvP in those, it is usually multiple players vs one.

The only way to have an actual stepping stone into PvP, is to have it at the max level, level 50-CP160. And the best way to do this, is to use an already existing zone, like IC, and make it new-to-PvP friendly. By getting more and more players into the zone, while risking PvP, so they can eventually grow into PvP.

Dying over and over, getting loading screens over and over, having to walk back over and over, knowing you lost half your telvar... that is not fun. Especially not when there is no gain at all. Noone learns from that. The only thing that happens is, players leave PvP to never come back. Which is where we are now.
What my idea promotes is to get players to go: "I was in the IC for an hour last night, and gained 1 alliance rank from mobs, even though I lost all PvP's I was in. I got killed a few times, but the last fight, it took them longer to kill me ." This would make players hang out in a zone, with the risk of PvP. Allowing them to grow.

PS: I feel proc sets actually hurt the PvP learning-curve. And think ZOS should remove proc sets from PvP entirely. As I feel players should grow in PvP, and not use cheesy sets.

to put it quite simply, like the majority of mmorpgs, people that are actually interested in learning pvp, duel. that's it, end of story. want to get better? duel.

people can complain, justly or unjustly, about the pvp issues any mmo has but when it comes right down to it, you always see the ones that are serious about learning, dueling.

I agree. Gaming is learning and learning is interesting.
I wouldn't play a game I didn't know how to play properly, personally.

BXR_Lonestar

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Might be an unpopular opinion, but outside of Midyear Mayham I think PVP is a bigger deal on the forum than in actual content...

Totally true IMO. There are more people who play the game and don't even know that PVP exists than there are people who play PVP almost exclusively (outside of farming for a PVP meta set). I would guess that the largest portion of the population would fall into the category of playing no PVP at all and only dabbling in PVP occasionally. I also think this is pretty apparent by the amount of resources that are dedicated to PVP. For example, if PVP was in such high demand, they would need far more servers to be available all the time to support the PVP population, but this isn't the case. They only come out with extra servers when there is a PVP oriented event.

More to that point - the server population that we have now is not ALWAYS full either. How many times do you load into your chosen home server only to see that the population bars are either empty or at 1 bar? I know that a lot of this is dependent on time-of-day when you play, but seriously - if PVP was in such high demand, you would expect higher server populations on average.

With this being a well established fact, it always makes me question the wisdom of making balancing changes for the game purely based on PVP.

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo

Andre_Noir wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

I'd be fine if they removed PvP completely. It ruins the game's balance, the focus on fixing Cyrodiil is just too taxing on the other parts of the game, and it divides the playerbase into two camps.

Oh please... The only thing ruin the game is "pro" PVE included iron atronach, payruns, "show ur logs", 4 dd/1t 3 dd runs, self-sustain tanks etc.
Almost 90% of sets and 1/2 of abilities are dead exactly because of dummy-lovers community exist.
I expect when Powerful Assault (a PVP dedicated set) will be nerfed the first who will flood the forum with their screams will be a dummy-lovers. And ofc they will scream: "It's all damned PVP ! Stop killing PVE !"

Yep. Powerful assault isn't used that much in PvP. I can see it being used in organised groups, but let's say that's the minority. What people tend to forget in PvP is that not that many people run premade groups and there are far more LFG individuals.

You are right it's far more used in PvE on tank types and occasionally a healer depending on what that person is doing.

clearly

rnd pve'rs as soon as pvp is mentionned

Alucardo

ThorianB wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

ThorianB wrote: »

PVP isn't near as popular as it is made out to be on the forums. It is underdeveloped and has a constant plague of problems. PVP in ESO is just boring and unimaginative. Sometimes ZOS will toss it a very small and crappy bone but they don't put any real effort into doing anything with it. I assume they figured there was little ROI for putting effort into PVP.

So besides a couple of thousand diehards, no one really pays much attention to PVP. You are likely to get more views on your stream fishing than you are doing PVP.

You're right. PvPers like SypherPK and Fengrush didn't bring in any viewership. Oh wait.

Oh boy! I stand corrected. You have the Ninja and Shroud of ESO up in here! Sypher hasn't played ESO in 2-3 years AFAIK.

PVP in this game is dead and nearly nonexistent. I love PVP. I love PVP games. But i do live in reality. The reality is that PVP in ESO is terrible, as i mentioned in my OP, and almost no one that actually loves PVP wants to do it here.

They could make PVP in ESO better, but they won't as it's not worth a time investment. That tells you everything you need to know about PVP in ESO. Not enough people do it to make it worth the developer's time to do anything with it. They tried 3 times to do PVP and all 3 times failed( because of poor execution and support after it went live, IMO). I think they have buried that dead horse already and PVPers should to instead of living on hope and a dream.

If it weren't for SypherPK and Fengrush, I wouldn't have found this game, and I'm sure I'm not alone there. Yes, Sypher doesn't play anymore, but he still did a lot for ESO by bringing in new players, holding people's interest in the game, and he was a PvPer. I don't think we should overlook that is all I'm saying.

I wouldn't exactly call the state of PvP "dead". I mean, I have to queue every night just to get in and the fights are huge. I haven't had as much trouble getting into BGs as I used to either, but sadly IC is a bit on the quiet side.
I do wish ZOS paid more attention to it however. I think they make more money off us than they give us credit for (houses for utility and duelling, subscription fees, crates, etc), and it's frustrating.

Are there any popular MMOs out there that don't have PvP? I looked around and couldn't find any. Probably because they know that while it may not be as lucrative as the casual side of things, your game is going to flourish more if you offer it. More so if it's done right. If you offer a feature, either do it properly or not at all. Stop half-arsing it.

FangOfTheTwoMoons

Wing wrote: »

ESO was marketed as a pvp game, and early on patches had massive lists of pvp changes and improvements.

then when IC did so poorly and Wrothgar so well. . .

this by the way is sabotaged, IC was thrown out after a content drought due to ZOS working on ths console launch, and was met with a bunch of negativity due to the terrible PvEvP design that was a fad at the time *division dark zone anyone?* and that is still ruined by those decisions to this day, where as Wrothgar was literally released like a month later and still comparable to expansions due to zone quality, content quality, etc.

had the release of Wrothgar and IC been reversed, the game might be a little different, and IC not regarded with the toxicity it (somewhat justly, but due to ZOS system choices) gets.

they tossed the PvE content starved masses into a PvP pit (and you used to lose 90% tel var) thus the great classic divide bonfire between PvE and PvP players was stoked in ESO

then they released some of the best PvE content they have ever made a month later. . .


and then the lighting patch

while this patch is infamously called "the lighting patch" because its what was changed and PvP performance degraded,
what ACTUALLY happened was that due to cheat engine and duplication exploits that allowed people to give themselves unlimited gold mats, ZOS had to move alot of information that was previously dealt with client side to the server side of things, this prevented some exploiting,

and threw PvP performance under the bus.

and the rest is history, proc sets calcs, monsters sets introduced, mythics, CP, HoT's, etc.

more pings on the server, more lag in Cyro.



now its spreading into PvE, when Greymoor launched Harrowstorms lagged the zone like crazy, now with Blackwood the group event has been poorly sectioned off to its own instance to prevent so many pings in a single zone.



this is it people, this is the point were you see sections of the game and events redesigned due to poor performance, rather then design intention.

The comment everyone needs to read.

gg

Minyassa

You'll never get an objective answer to this question. To people who like PvP, it's the most important thing in the game. To people who hate it, it's the least important thing in the game.

milllaurie

Alucardo wrote: »

ThorianB wrote: »

PVP isn't near as popular as it is made out to be on the forums. It is underdeveloped and has a constant plague of problems. PVP in ESO is just boring and unimaginative. Sometimes ZOS will toss it a very small and crappy bone but they don't put any real effort into doing anything with it. I assume they figured there was little ROI for putting effort into PVP.

So besides a couple of thousand diehards, no one really pays much attention to PVP. You are likely to get more views on your stream fishing than you are doing PVP.

You're right. PvPers like SypherPK and Fengrush didn't bring in any viewership. Oh wait.

TheRealGodzilla, KristoferESO

Pvp might be the smaller part of the community but it's there. And most of the people I know only do pvp and find pve boring and repetitive.
Anyway, even though it's smaller, pvp community would kick pve community's butt!

zelaminator

milllaurie wrote: »

Anyway, even though it's smaller, pvp community would kick pve community's butt!

Confident at least hehe