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How importants is PvP for ESO
Marcus_Aurelius
✭✭✭✭✭
There is the announcement for the "World Play ESO"
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/60289
There are 40 streams in total, look at how many are about PvP.
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/60289
There are 40 streams in total, look at how many are about PvP.
4
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Grandchamp1989✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Might be an unpopular opinion, but outside of Midyear Mayham I think PVP is a bigger deal on the forum than in actual content...33 -
zelaminator✭✭✭✭✭
✭I've no doubt that it is an integral and vital part of the game.. unfortunately though, it has always had problems galore.. some of them born from the game, but equally as many born from the players4 -
Vanagrand✭✭✭Is the main reason i keep playing. The possibilities with dodges, blocks, ultis and builds are the best pvp i found around. Miles better than the one in WoW.
Awful server performance during peak hours and the huge curve of learning is what keep players out.
A bad pveer can copy a build from eso.logs from a top guild. See a rotation and practice in the trial dummie to improve their performance.
A bad pvper have to die a lot. And ask for advice from better players to improve. And most of the time the most optimal builds are "secret" till the patch is about to end.
PVE is more welcoming. Pvp it needs more time. Far more time to improve.
I only started pve like 4 month ago and have done already Asylum+2,vcr+2(progressing now for the +3 hopefully soon), +others and some of the hardest challenges from dgs like the necro or beast personalities. In 4 month of casual pvp you will still be crushed by experienced players.
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ThorianB✭✭✭✭✭
✭PVP isn't near as popular as it is made out to be on the forums. It is underdeveloped and has a constant plague of problems. PVP in ESO is just boring and unimaginative. Sometimes ZOS will toss it a very small and crappy bone but they don't put any real effort into doing anything with it. I assume they figured there was little ROI for putting effort into PVP.
So besides a couple of thousand diehards, no one really pays much attention to PVP. You are likely to get more views on your stream fishing than you are doing PVP.5 -
Vanagrand✭✭✭zelaminator wrote: »
Cursing and trolling and agressiveness is in all games that involves pvp. All of them.
About not wanting to help people to learn is more about finding the type of pvp you like and a proper guild to help you with that.
Ex, if you want to improve in 1vs1/1vsX situations and you join TDA or Golden clover or Visloman zerg you will learn how to makes huge amounts of aps and conquer keeps, but you will not improve in the queued exemples.2 -
zelaminator✭✭✭✭✭
✭zelaminator wrote: »
Cursing and trolling and agressiveness is in all games that involves pvp. All of them.
About not wanting to help people to learn is more about finding the type of pvp you like and a proper guild to help you with that.
Ex, if you want to improve in 1vs1/1vsX situations and you join TDA or Golden clover or Visloman zerg you will learn how to makes huge amounts of aps and conquer keeps, but you will not improve in the queued exemples.
Aggressiveness, trolling, and the like may be natural to some.. others, like myself was raised to know that you can easily be nice and civil to your opponent, and to your own team4 -
Vanagrand✭✭✭And you will find decent and nice people in pvp too, specialy if you play with your mates.
Saying you are not doing pvp couse some people are trolls is kind of lame excuse. More minded to convince yourself if you ask me.4 -
zelaminator✭✭✭✭✭
✭And you will find decent and nice people in pvp too, specialy if you play with your mates.
Saying you are not doing pvp couse some people are trolls is kind of lame excuse. More minded to convince yourself if you ask me.
I know that some people are decent, and I never did say that I don't play, did I.?0 -
Sorbin✭✭✭✭Kind of a slap in the face to their numerous PvP streamers on the Stream Team TBH, many of whom are amongst the highest-drawing streamers in the game.4
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Vanagrand✭✭✭zelaminator wrote: »And you will find decent and nice people in pvp too, specialy if you play with your mates.
Saying you are not doing pvp couse some people are trolls is kind of lame excuse. More minded to convince yourself if you ask me.
I know that some people are decent, and I never did say that I don't play, did I.?
Nop you didnt. But you message implied that couse of the behavoir of some people a lot prefer to stay away from pvp.
I didnt intent to make it personal.Edited by Vanagrand on June 22, 2021 7:44AM2 -
OlumoGarbag✭✭✭✭✭
✭PvP is the most neglected part of the game. No new content since 4-5 years, decreasing performance since years, terrible balance and bug issues.
It's surprising that zenimax even keeps PvP in the game, I guess they just want to see how far they can go until the very last PvP player stopped playing.class representative for the working class, non-cp, bwb and Trolling5 -
Atrael7✭✭✭If only there could be some kind of game wide PVP event we could have to promote that aspect of the game as well around the same time as The World Plays ESO promotion.1 -
zelaminator✭✭✭✭✭
✭zelaminator wrote: »And you will find decent and nice people in pvp too, specialy if you play with your mates.
Saying you are not doing pvp couse some people are trolls is kind of lame excuse. More minded to convince yourself if you ask me.
I know that some people are decent, and I never did say that I don't play, did I.?
Nop you didnt. But you message implied that couse of the behavoir of some people a lot prefer to stay away from pvp.
I didnt intent to make it personal.
No worries
what I mean to say is that I know for a fact that these player made issues, are why many players choose to stay out of Cyrodiil.. 1 -
Pauwer✭✭✭✭✭I only really play pvp and yes it is important and yes the campaings are sometimes full and sometimes not so full and yes, as players become more long timers as time passes, more folks will find their way to pvp, the end-game.
The reason they wont stream it though is the abysmal performance. They don't want to include that in their marketing. I sure as hell wouldn't. In fact the marketing department has probably tried to cancel that "pvp adventure" and it will most likely happen in an empty campaing or be duels or something.0 -
Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PvP used to be very important and used to be THE endgame. If you watch the first trailer its about the alliance war.
Unsurprisingly however something tends to die down if it has massive performance issues for years that likely will never get fixed and you can count its content updates on one hand.Politeness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.9 -
Bashev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Sanguinor2 wrote: »PvP used to be very important and used to be THE endgame. If you watch the first trailer its about the alliance war.
Unsurprisingly however something tends to die down if it has massive performance issues for years that likely will never get fixed and you can count its content updates on one hand.
Exactly this. It was the endgame. Now it is the abandoned child.Because I can!4 -
Urvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PvP is the most neglected part of the game, but it's clearly one of the most popular things to stream/watch since THE biggest ESO streamer mostly PvPs, as well as at least half of all the other streamers. There is a very active and engaged PvP population within ESO, and the main thing holding it back is ZOS. A lot of the PvPers who have left the game over the years due to poor performance, lack of content, etc., still check in regularly to see if anything has improved, which sadly never really happens. If ZOS were to focus on PvP a bit more, it would bring in quite a large swath of players, so it's a bit strange to me why ZOS ignores it so much considering how dedicated and active that segment of the playerbase is.
If ZOS just can't fix Cyrodiil performance and so they've been setting PvP aside to die because of that, it would be better to just focus on small scale, instanced PvP. BG performance is a lot better than Cyrodiil and there's already a very dedicated community there. A focus on better rewards, listening to community feedback, adding requested modes/features, etc., would go a long way to develop the system without much work.
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Sarannah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I'd be fine if they removed PvP completely. It ruins the game's balance, the focus on fixing Cyrodiil is just too taxing on the other parts of the game, and it divides the playerbase into two camps.
The biggest problem with PvP is, it mostly attracts the personality that does not show mercy. Which is why most players who try it, will never touch it again. There is nothing wrong with this, but there needs to be a stepping stone into PvP. But whenever a suggestion is made to make PvP more beneficial to those that would keep losing PvP's, the PvP'ers won't let that happen.
Personally I'd treat Cyrodiil as PvP endgame, and make the Imperial City a new-to-PvP zone. Let all mobs grant a slight amount of AP and telvar, and make the telvar loss on death only 10%. This would allow players, like me, to step into PvP. Yes we might get killed, but we won't walk away with nothing, like we do now. We'd have some AP, and some telvar to show for our efforts. While we do engage in PvP, even if it might not be much/often, the risk is there. But it would offer a stepping stone, and maybe get more players into PvP.Edited by Sarannah on June 22, 2021 9:13AM9 -
Ksariyu✭✭✭✭It really depends who you ask. There's a not-inconsequential sized group of players who really believe PvP should be the ultimate end-game (And despite not being a PvPer myself, I believe that as well). The developers on the other hand seem to regret even putting the mode in the game, as it receives little to no attention in the way of performance improvements or additional content. And unfortunately, I kind of get it. There's no point in creating content for a competitive game mode when the servers can't ensure even the slightest degree of competitive integrity. Even small-scale BGs can't get full teams, and the players who do get in get hit with lag and desyncs all the time. So why bother? As sad as it is, I just don't see PvP being a major part of this game's future.0
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Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think there is a simple reason why PvP does not receive much of a new content (only a new BG map here & there).
Just ask yourself a question:
How many new people do you see in Cyrodiil or IC ?
Exactly. Very little (if any at all). If new players stay there to PvP, they only do it till they get skyshards, skillpoints, AW rank and skill line unlocked. And then they stop PvP-ing. If you look at current PvP player-base - it pretty much consists of older veteran players. There is no influx of new players and no new player retention. That is why there is almost no new PvP content. Additionally, remember what was the reception of IC (last PvP zone) ? Not that great tbh. Later they had to make it a free dlc, but it did not make that zone populated. It is almost always dead empty with 7 - 10 people running around in circles.
New player experience in ESO PvP is simply put - horrible. Ignoring that lag and unresponsive game during big fights and often "kicks" to main menu, Entry level is simply too high. It is more like a brick wall. Because all new players do is they fight more experienced ones. There is simply not enough new players, so new players can fight other new players... This happens even in BGs, that are supposed to have some kind of MM or player rating, but it does not work (because again, there is too little new players).
What were the most recent big PvP changes ? War tortes & AW rank progression boosters in Crown Store. Why ? Because it will sell. ZOS knows who their players are. They know that they can make some cash of people who just want to get it over with and not do PvP again. Because it is not a fun & enjoyable experience for them.Edited by Tommy_The_Gun on June 22, 2021 9:22AM2 -
Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭And it's a problem of ZOS creation.
Performance continues to get worse. Enough has been said a million times so I don't need to elaborate on it.
No real changes to Cyrodiil in 5 years. They added towns to capture, some outposts and a hammer (which we've had for two years now - a lot of us were expecting a new weapon every 3 or 6 months).
Not understanding how pvp is actually played. They balance things based on spreadsheets and numbers rather than how it translates to gameplay.
Constantly ignoring feedback from players and implementing bad fixes for problems. The proc set is a great example. PvP community said that 5 or 5 sets are way overtuned. Rather than spend time and nerf those couple of sets, the implement this crazy new system which not only narrowed build diversity, but enabled some problem sets to potentially be even more of a problem.
This leads to chopping and changing how the game is played constantly so every 3 months we have a completely different meta. Not always bad to change a meta, but it's two frequent and often one dimensional. One patch it's stack as many dots as you can and everyone just melts, the next it's wear two defensive sets and nobody dies. There's no in between. You play that or suffer. Yes, I know that's how metas work, but it's so extreme in this game. Some people want to come on and PvP, not then spend hours farming dungeons for gear.
Lack of effort, resource and imagination put into it. Imperial City is a great example. To get more people there they just added flags. So it's the same as Cyrodiil now. It created more downtime between fights and all it's done is create it a better place to farm stones upstairs. Not only are the zones now a slow place for PvP, but it killed off the sewers entirely, which were the best part about IC. They created completely unique PvP with small spaces and tight engagements. You never knew who or whath was around the corner. I appreciate they tried to do something, but people said the flags would hurt it more than help and that was ignored. And we're like 2-3 years down the line and they've never revisited it or analysed the impact. Less people are there than ever before since the flag change, but again it's ignored.
Same with BGs. They just slapped everything into one queue, despite people wanting to play certain game types. Most of us treat every game like a TDM, which annoys objective players. It'll be like this for years until maybe they look at it.
The PvP community it dwindling. I look at Xbox EU where I play and see a lot less people in PvP. Look at twitch and once we had 6 or 7 PvP streamers with decent numbers at any one time, often now there's none.
Yes, people move on to other games. Yet we keep hearing from ZOS that more people play ESO than ever before. So if the game is not only retaining, but growing it's player base, how is PvP losing numbers left right and centre?Edited by Brrrofski on June 22, 2021 9:22AM6 -
OlumoGarbag✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'd be fine if they removed PvP completely. It ruins the game's balance, the focus on fixing Cyrodiil is just too taxing on the other parts of the game, and it divides the playerbase into two camps.
The biggest problem with PvP is, it mostly attracts the personality that does not show mercy. Which is why most players who try it, will never touch it again. There is nothing wrong with this, but there needs to be a stepping stone into PvP. But whenever a suggestion is made to make PvP more beneficial to those that would keep losing PvP's, the PvP'ers won't let that happen.
Personally I'd treat Cyrodiil as PvP endgame, and make the Imperial City a new-to-PvP zone. Let all mobs grant a slight amount of AP and telvar, and make the telvar loss on death only 10%. This would allow players, like me, to step into PvP. Yes we might get killed, but we won't walk away with nothing, like we do now. We'd have some AP, and some telvar to show for our efforts. While we do engage in PvP, even if it might not be much/often, the risk is there. But it would offer a stepping stone, and maybe get more players into PvP.
Lul what are you talking about?
Yes some changes affect pve as well but most of the changes for PVE endgame were for PVE sake. CP 2.0, crit nerf, armor rebalance non of that was for pvp. And i also think its a good thing pve wise to scale proc sets of max stats. Thats how it should be.
And the stepping stone.... we have low lvl cyrodiil, low lvl bgs, low mmr bgs, 90% of bgs are objective driven and dont actually reward player interaction.
I would say pvp is as casual friendly as it ever was, but they removed alot of the nobrainers like proctanks, that could make any pver into a endgame pvp player,Edited by OlumoGarbag on June 22, 2021 9:54AMclass representative for the working class, non-cp, bwb and Trolling5 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PVP isn't near as popular as it is made out to be on the forums. It is underdeveloped and has a constant plague of problems. PVP in ESO is just boring and unimaginative. Sometimes ZOS will toss it a very small and crappy bone but they don't put any real effort into doing anything with it. I assume they figured there was little ROI for putting effort into PVP.
So besides a couple of thousand diehards, no one really pays much attention to PVP. You are likely to get more views on your stream fishing than you are doing PVP.
You're right. PvPers like SypherPK and Fengrush didn't bring in any viewership. Oh wait.8 -
nukk3r✭✭✭✭✭
✭The biggest problem with PvP is, it mostly attracts the personality that does not show mercy. Which is why most players who try it, will never touch it again. There is nothing wrong with this, but there needs to be a stepping stone into PvP. But whenever a suggestion is made to make PvP more beneficial to those that would keep losing PvP's, the PvP'ers won't let that happen.
This is more on the players who quit after a couple of deaths, they weren't a PvP material to start with. If you don't come to Cyrodiil with a live-die-repeat mindset, you won't stay.
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Ippokrates✭✭✭✭✭Looking at the oldest promos about
the alliance war, it seems that originally pvp was one of the main selling points of ESO, If not the most important. You know, take the band and fight with others over Tamriel in a real war! Yay!
But the thing is: pvp & pve are two different universes with two different sets of rules. In pve you expect more & more powerful adversaries with more & more powerful weapons to fight them. In pvp it is better to keep things smaller & well balanced because nobody would play in the game where a small bunch of advanced players would one shot everyone.
If you wanna combine them, well... You better have a good ideas, cause it will ends bad.
And this (plus performance issues) lead to the situation where first proc sets were removed from Cyro, cause they were too poweful and then they introduce scalling to prevent a massive combo from dmg & crits - which was fine in pve but kinda overpowered in pvp.
So do you think ZOS had ever the good ideas to combine these two worlds into one consistent game? I mean, some pvp sets are quite nice but overall... pvp seems neglected. And now, for many seasons, pve content is their main marketing area.
I can understand it. It most probably has been confirmed as the most important thing to attract new players - to have this TES experience. And pvp is just an additional flavour you can do for extra gear & TC ^^
Plus the fact (i am loosely quoting Asmondgold) that pvp players are a bunch of never satisfied guys, who would always complain how game is unbalanced - because they were just killed by a player playing another class XD
So why even bother to please them, if you already know the outcome?
(Yes, an outcry ^^)Edited by Ippokrates on June 22, 2021 10:27AM0 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The biggest problem with PvP is, it mostly attracts the personality that does not show mercy. Which is why most players who try it, will never touch it again. There is nothing wrong with this, but there needs to be a stepping stone into PvP. But whenever a suggestion is made to make PvP more beneficial to those that would keep losing PvP's, the PvP'ers won't let that happen.
This is more on the players who quit after a couple of deaths, they weren't a PvP material to start with. If you don't come to Cyrodiil with a live-die-repeat mindset, you won't stay.
Agreed. In fact, there's nothing wrong with losing fights. Check your recap and reflect on what you could have done better. Eventually you'll see yourself progress and it feels pretty good. There's tutorials out there to help you get better at PvE because, well, it's all the same thing every day. But PvP is ever-changing and dynamic, where you never know what you're going up against, so all you can do is put in the work and get better.
Sticking to it was one of the most gratifying things I've ever done, and yes, it frustrates me at times, but there's no denying it's the best fun I've ever had, and made a lot of great memories and friends along the way.
Like anything, PvP is what you make of it. Are you prepared to learn and progress, or are you a quitter? If it's the latter, then perhaps it's best you stick with fighting rats and spiders.3 -
Pauwer✭✭✭✭✭Yes, i agree that when you are relaxed enough in the game to accept failure too (comes with practise, experience and self-confidence) you can just pop into cyro and discover the most fun content of eso. You will have fun. I mean, in 2017 i was a solo pve quester and never ever would have played any group content and certainly not pvp, ever. Nowdays, pvp is the only thing i want to play.1
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Hurbster✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If you like PvP then it's important.
If you don't then it's not.
I do wish they would balance PvE and PvP separately - isn't that what Battle Spirit is for?Edited by Hurbster on June 22, 2021 10:35AMSo they raised the floor and lowered the ceiling. Except the ceiling has spikes in it now and the floor is also lava.4