Endeavors are fine

Idinuse · June 2021

Fhritz wrote: »

I mean... I saw a LOT of people complaining about the low reward and the expensive price of the store...But keep in mind that this is free AND required almost NO grind (I've done some daily without even noticing). We have now an opportunity to have crown store item for free, sure you'll not be able to have them day 1 ! Yes, apex mount cost a lot, but they are literally the RAREST thing in the crown store ! Something you possibly can't get even with a hundred of normal crates, OF COURSES you'll not be able to have them fast ! The cost is reasonable , you may not have one for this crate season, but you'll be able to buy some next season ! And remember, it's FREE w/o grind ! Some player complained that cosmetic was almost every time in crown store, and now they complain because they can't have mount/skin/whatever as fast as they want ! Be patient guys, and don't be greedy !

Yeah. I've had several hiatuses due to complete grind burnout, especially after events. So I haven't even opened the Endeavour menu window yet. I'll just do what I do and if it completes an endeavor, that's fine with me. I'm already at the brink of burning out on Fallout 76 due to the daily and weekly leaderboard chase already, now ESO too wants me to chase daily and weekly stuff.

. But objectively, it's a great idea and a great thing. I mean not all ESO players do both ESO and Fallout 76.

But essentially what I wanted to say is that I think everyone will feel better and be happier if you don't chase the endeavors but let them pop up as an extra reward while you play and actually enjoy the game.

Red_Feather · June 2021

I was watching eso streams tonight and asked a streamer what the endeavors were for today and they learned about it existing from teaching them how to find it right then and there. I think it is pretty ignorable.

Nisekev · June 2021

Grinding endeavors for a week and get enough seals only for some lame consumables is where I draw the line. It's the cheapest "throw a dog a bone" move to placate gambling regulations I've experienced so far.

RaddlemanNumber7 · June 2021

An ethical fig leaf that turned out to be NSFW, in the short term at least. No surprises there.

But from an economic standpoint, now we have some numbers to look at, I think Endeavours guarantee that I'll never buy another Crown Crate. I still have some gems, and there's nothing in the Iron Atronach crates that I want. So, by the time the next lot of crates appear, I should have a useful amount of seals.

This reduces my overall need for crowns, which makes ESO+ look a lot less attractive. I'll quit that as well.

An overall gain for me. Not so good for ZOS's income though.

AuraStorm43 · June 2021

How is having to do 800 daily challenges for 1 apex mount “fine”

Thats 267 days of challenges, since there’s a cap for some reason

kargen27 · June 2021

Blacknight841 wrote: »

Danikat wrote: »

The threads will probably be merged anyway, but just in case they're not here's the reply I just put in another topic:

I'm not sure about that.

Endeavours were created to comply with Microsoft's policy on loot boxes, in particular point 2 "Items in loot boxes can always be earned through play. All items available through paid loot boxes in our games will also be available through unpaid opportunity by gameplay (i.e. grinding)."

The question is how that's intended. Do they mean you'll be able to earn any of the items but not all of them? Or do they mean 1 player should be able to get all the items in loot boxes through play if they put enough time in? Because if it's the second one then the current system falls far short of that mark and will likely need to be changed when Microsoft gets a look at it. (Which makes me wonder if Zenimax are just hoping they don't look that closely.)

If this were the case, …I would have expected them to address the third point referring to the drop chance of each item in the loot crate. I have yet to see an official announcement on the percentages.

Microsoft's loot box policy doesn't apply to ZoS nor this game. "For all of our Xbox Game Studio games, starting with games released back in 2019, we will apply the following principles:"

If ZoS did this because of the Microsoft policy likely it was voluntary. Maybe Microsoft pushed for the change but the loot box policy still technically does not apply.

Girl_Number8 · June 2021

Fhritz wrote: »

I mean... I saw a LOT of people complaining about the low reward and the expensive price of the store...But keep in mind that this is free AND required almost NO grind (I've done some daily without even noticing). We have now an opportunity to have crown store item for free, sure you'll not be able to have them day 1 ! Yes, apex mount cost a lot, but they are literally the RAREST thing in the crown store ! Something you possibly can't get even with a hundred of normal crates, OF COURSES you'll not be able to have them fast ! The cost is reasonable , you may not have one for this crate season, but you'll be able to buy some next season ! And remember, it's FREE w/o grind ! Some player complained that cosmetic was almost every time in crown store, and now they complain because they can't have mount/skin/whatever as fast as they want ! Be patient guys, and don't be greedy !

After a long time of even eso+ not working properly, I am pretty sure the players are not the greedy ones....

Endeavors are a, “yay, we found a way to keep loot crates!!” They are not anywhere near to bright dust in D2. At least you can actually grind things that were in the store for silver very reasonably in that game.

Imo they should get rid of loot crates all together and just have crown store items.

That way you just need to grind in-game gold to trade for crowns. They could copy D2 in the sense of having endeavors for featured items per week.

SammyKhajit · June 2021

This one loathes the crates. Been getting the endeavour seals just from gameplay. Not really a fan of the system but at least it’s not too much of a grind.

meekmiko · June 2021

tc91101 wrote: »

Seems ok to me. It's pretty much a reward for logging in once a day for approx 6 months. Someone above said the price was 16,000 and it would take a year but my highest price item is 9,600 not 16,000. Also, I received 60 and no XP yesterday emblems yesterday and 45 emblems and 15k XP today. Anyway if you assume an average of 50 emblems a day for a 10,000 item then it will take 200 days or a little less than 7 months. That's not including what they eventually add for weekly. So far it's taken me at most about 5 minutes to get all 3 endeavors. Today I got 2 of them just by doing daily writs and then the 3rd I collected 8 nodes which took 5 minutes at most.

Keep in mind Crate Seasons are only 3 months long, aka about 90 days give or take.

Iluvrien · June 2021

For me, there is no component of the roll out of this system that seems rooted in either altruism or player experience on ZOS' part.

That's not to say it is dumb. It is cleverly put together and, as far as I can see, achieves what I suspect to be its aims quite effectively.

The two primary reasons why I came to this conclusion are:
1) New currency - ZOS has introduced a new currency so everyone starts from zero. Existing stockpiles (gold, gems, crowns, AP etc.) cannot be used to get everything you want immediately. The "immediately" is important. I'll come back to it.

2) Daily/Weekly cap - you can't grind for seals to buy everything available.There is no direct link between time spent on endeavours and reward.

As others have said, I think it is here both to lawyer their way around whatever lootbox regulations finally turn up in various states, and to replace daily login rewards as an engagement driver (this is where the "immediately" comes back in).

A couple of points that I keep seeing are interesting so I am sharing my thoughts on those too:

Endeavours only take five minutes doing things you would already have done. - Of course they do. They have already achieved their goal. You are playing, and being reminded of items in crown crates whenever one completes. Even more often if you are checking the endeavours menu.
ZOS didn't have to give you anything for free - The game is B2P, chapters cost extra, subs have existed since launch. People continue to pay money for this game. In an industry where a major publisher made almost a billion dollars across its live services in 2019, and the same publisher made almost 29% of its 2020 revenue from the microtransactions in one game, let's not kid ourselves that crown crates (and thus Endeavours) exist to keep the lights on. This isn't about making enough money. This is about making all the money.
I've seen worse monetization systems - This isn't a race to the bottom. Really. Being a few steps above the worst, does not make what is being done good. It just makes it less bad.

I mean let's not kid ourselves, the Endeavours system is a solution to a problem that ZOS intentionally created (spending money for artificial scarcity) which preserves the problem, while tempting the player to still engage with it (spend money to cut the grind) while also ensuring continuing engagement with the game as a whole and its revenue streams in particular.

In a dark, sick, way... it is a glorious work of genius.

Abigail · June 2021

Endeavors are indeed fine.

As a quaternary feature of microscopic significance, I've no understanding of why they've gotten so much lip service here.

Three days straight I've maxed them while paying them no attention whatsoever until I logoff for the day. Moreover, I wouldn't give an infinitesimal rat's *** orifice for any of the crapolas Endeavor seals will buy.

KalyanLazair · June 2021

Guys, have you ever considered all this trash is basically a reskin of whatever base mount the game already has, and that you're basically renting the right to ride around the fancy, shinny mount until the servers shut down? I also like fancy looking things, but at the end of the day a mount is only worth to move around, and even the ugly sorrel horse can do that. I don't mind the endeavour system, but I was not surprised at all to see that you need a year's worth of logging in to get the apex mounts. I'm not saying I won't use them, but I'm definitely not stressing over them. Been fine not having any apex mount (aside from one I got from a free crate years ago, and which I rarely even use anyways), and I will still be fine without them.

Want for things to change? Don't play their game. Simple as that. Subs got changed in favor of a free-to-play model with optional subscription because the game was on the verge of flopping a year after launch (Steam numbers tell a pretty darn clear story). Game is doing better now in terms of players, but all these strategies to force people to log in everyday in order to do menial stuff makes me think they're not doing as well as we're told to believe. They want to pump the numbers of people online at any given moment, and that is done to brings those numbers to their investors (see? We got 29k people peaking and a daily average of 20k // steam nums // we're doing fine so keep the money flowing!).

I'm guessing the CP changes have made a lot of people leave one or several of their secondary accounts aside while they try to pump up their primary accounts back to where they used to be, and since this game is grindy as Oblivion you've only got so many hours a day to invest in what it ultimately is just a game. I know I've done that, I haven't logged into my secondary account for several weeks now, not even to get the daily reward. Talking of that, daily rewards are so useless for the most part they've stopped being an incentive to get into the game. I already missed two this month and I'm not bothered in the very least. So maybe they're trying to get people incentivized again to use their primary and secondary accounts in order to gain whatever shinny mount is for sale at a certain time.

Problem I see is they're investing so much time thinking how to get people logging everyday they've completely forgotten that, maybe, just maybe, making a good game with engaging gameplay, mechanics and story might actually be the way to do it. I've been here since before One Tamriel. The game used to be way better than it is now, at least content wise. I still remember my grin when seeing the Morrowind intro. I still remember the excitement about Summerset, and how much I enjoyed Orsinium. Greymoor was underwhelming, and my expectations for Blackwood are not precisely high, which is a shame as TES IV; Oblivion IS my favorite of all TES games.

So my suggestion is to not get too worked up about cosmetics and pointless, grindy stuff. Find what you like about the game, enjoy it and don't forget one day the servers will shut down and all the skins you worked for will just disappear.

It is just a game. Never forget that.

PS; For the record, the part that actually got me returning to the game every day? Questing and exploration, which is basically what TES games are based on; questing and exploration. I was here before daily rewards, I was here before crown crates, I was here before Morrowind was even a thing, and yet I was coming back again and again and again because I wanted to keep exploring and questing. Maybe I'm a minority, but that's what got me playing, and the reason why I'm less inclined to play as of late is because the quality of the questing and exploration part has gone down a lot. I could just get lost for hours in Skyrim and be able to find a dungeon and a few notes or diaries scattered here and there, and I was so hooked to the mystery I would not stop until I had explored the whole ruin, putting together the little pieces. Bethesda USED to be able to tell a story using only the scenario. No questgiver, no nothing, just some notes and some old bones, and you were thrown into one heck of a narrative.

ESO had a bit of that too, but not to the point original TES games did. Some notes here and there, they're fine and fun to read, I will give them that, but by each passing year the game is less what I loved about it and more... well, a Skinner box simulator. Are you people playing because you enjoy the game? Or are you actually playing because you're going to be given a cookie at some point if you perform your tasks well enough?

Cireous · June 2021

I'm extremely pleased with the no-real-grind daily aspect of endeavors. They could have really messed this up and gave us a 2 hours a day-7 days a week-second-job-grind like in Fallout 76.

Pauwer · June 2021

Ehh, i checked the store what you can buy with coins and no. Ugly stuff that i do not want at all. So, they are not fine and totally will not do 'em. Pass.

Bl4ckR3alm93 · June 2021

Spidder81 wrote: »

Its not about the grind, its about how long it takes. It will take you roughly 1 year to buy a 16000 SoE mount. That is if you log in everyday for that year too and do SoE every day for a year. This was never done with players in mind. It sole purpose is to loophole around Microsofts loot box policies. Thats it.

The SoE does nothing but makes people want to buy Crown Crates even more, because it will take forever to save SoE to get anything worth having. In reality it is doing the complete opposite of what it is supposed to be doing.

In my opinion I think Endeavors is fine also. Think about major companies nowadays such as Ubisoft and EA. You will NEVER get something like this. ESO and Warframe are one of the few games that is community friendly. Every other company just wants to get stuff out before the Financial Quarter. All about money and greed with these companies. ( Which is why I stopped playing Destiny 2. Look up transmog -___- ). These are the rarest items in the lootbox that u can now pick out AND get free without even trying.
I for one am greatful for this new system

Abigail · June 2021

Bl4ckR3alm93 wrote: »

ESO and Warframe are one of the few games that is community friendly.

Umm RE: Endeavors -- you do understand ESO is being community friendly only to comply with EU laws concerning gambling and because Microsoft is holding gun to Bethesda's head.

Not my notion of community friendly, which ZOS is decidedly not.

Bl4ckR3alm93 · June 2021

Abigail wrote: »

Bl4ckR3alm93 wrote: »

ESO and Warframe are one of the few games that is community friendly.

Umm RE: Endeavors -- you do understand ESO is being community friendly only to comply with EU laws concerning gambling and because Microsoft is holding gun to Bethesda's head.

Not my notion of community friendly, which ZOS is decidedly not.

Go play Madden and NBA 2K then. Last I checked before they joined Microsoft, ESO didnt have give us the ability to gift crowns. You do realize that you can now get anything INCLUDING DLCS for free as long as you have enough gold to buy crowns from someone. Again only a few games like Warframe and ESO offer this, every other game will NEVER give you an option like this. ESO Plus lets you have access to all of their dlcs including crowns which many other game companies just take a portion from the base game to sell to you later at a price close to the base game price lol. Nowadays companies dont even bother to finish their game ( *cough* *cough* CYBERPUNK *cough* ) as long as they get their money and its out before the Financial Quarter.

Luke_Flamesword · June 2021

Endavours are exactly a thing that I was expected and for me is good enough. I really like the idea, that tasks are small, quick activities - daily writs and surveys is enough chores and I don't want more.

I have a lot of crown crate things just from twitch crates and now with endavour I should be able to get major part of things I want from every crate season. I just don't care about Radiant Apex and even don't like a lot of Apex mount, so I'm good with legendary stuff (there are also nice mounts from time to time!). And with Endevour system I will have additional legendary item every two months just from daily tasks (plus something nice from weekly), so with 4-month season I can get 2 legendary items from Endavours and bunch of superior/epic items using crystals from twitch. If you just don't look at Apex stuff, (which is nice, but overpriced), you can have for free most of nice items from every crate season without paying anything.

All you need is just some self-control and feeling "I can live without top tier prizes, there is a lot of other, nice items, I can live without having everything".

I play for two years and I bought only once 15 crates pack only because there was a lot of items that I like and was sale for 3500 crowns. And I have really a lot of crown items just only from hunting for twitch drops. Now, with Endavours this will be so much better, so I don't complain, I just enjoy the free stuff.

EnerG · June 2021

A year of saving seals for an apex (which I will never buy cause apex mounts are ugly too me) is better than buying hundreds of crates for an obscene ammount of money. Theres supporting a game you like, and then theres outright addiction. I don't care how much money you make a mount is NOT worth it. Again to each their own but id rather play the game free for a year for a mount than slowly decent into addicted madness.

Jazraena · June 2021

It's utterly mystifying to me how many people keep insisting Microsoft has anything to do with this, even right after someone in this very thread posts the relevant policy bit which does not apply to ESO. And even if it did, the Microsoft purchase is much too recent to already influence their game design that way.

Seriously. Microsoft is irrelevant here. ESO is not included in their policy. EU Law is no immediate factor either, with the (singular to my knowledge) exception of Belgium. They weren't forced to introduce Seals of Endeavour.

And they most certainly didn't do it so you could earn the Radiant Apex mount out of every crown crate season. Why people believe that should be possible eludes me.

It's free stuff. Free stuff that you get by just doing what you were already doing for the most part. Stop claiming it's a grind, and stop whining.

Bl4ckR3alm93 · June 2021

EnerG wrote: »

A year of saving seals for an apex (which I will never buy cause apex mounts are ugly too me) is better than buying hundreds of crates for an obscene ammount of money. Theres supporting a game you like, and then theres outright addiction. I don't care how much money you make a mount is NOT worth it. Again to each their own but id rather play the game free for a year for a mount than slowly decent into addicted madness.

Thank you! Thats what Im trying to have people see! Look out disgusting these other companies are acting right now. Destiny 2 cant even give the players a simple outfit system without adding limits to how much u can earn per season, but make them available through silver.... ( Real money ). Look at Ubisoft for christ sake!

Bl4ckR3alm93 · June 2021

Jazraena wrote: »

It's utterly mystifying to me how many people keep insisting Microsoft has anything to do with this, even right after someone in this very thread posts the relevant policy bit which does not apply to ESO. And even if it did, the Microsoft purchase is much too recent to already influence their game design that way.

Seriously. Microsoft is irrelevant here. ESO is not included in their policy. EU Law is no immediate factor either, with the (singular to my knowledge) exception of Belgium. They weren't forced to introduce Seals of Endeavour.

And they most certainly didn't do it so you could earn the Radiant Apex mount out of every crown crate season. Why people believe that should be possible eludes me.

It's free stuff. Free stuff that you get by just doing what you were already doing for the most part. Stop claiming it's a grind, and stop whining.

Exactly! Its free! Literally we can get everything including DLCs for free. I dont care what anyone says because I've been ran through all these other games from Apex Legends, to Destiny, to GTA, to sports games, to the Division, to Rainbow Six and other small games like Jump Force and Xenoverse 2. Not all but Majority of companies all just try to get money from you

Nisekev wrote: »

Grinding endeavors for a week and get enough seals only for some lame consumables is where I draw the line. It's the cheapest "throw a dog a bone" move to placate gambling regulations I've experienced so far.

No it isnt and you know it lol. Again go play an EA, 2k, Ubisoft, Bungie, or a free to play game and see if you get anything like this. We have 2 ways to get stuff out of the crates or have you forgotten about crown gems. Now you can use endeavors and if you dont want to and you dont have money, then go get you some gold and buy crowns from someone ingame. 1000 crowns sells for 100k gold dude lol. People have to start learning how to compare and contrast. ESO, Monster Hunter and Warframe know how to make this community friendly as much as possible.

You cant even buy a single player game nowadays without shooting dice that it works Day 1

Bl4ckR3alm93 · June 2021

Chuck_Finley wrote: »

Fhritz wrote: »

I mean... I saw a LOT of people complaining about the low reward and the expensive price of the store...But keep in mind that this is free AND required almost NO grind (I've done some daily without even noticing). We have now an opportunity to have crown store item for free, sure you'll not be able to have them day 1 ! Yes, apex mount cost a lot, but they are literally the RAREST thing in the crown store ! Something you possibly can't get even with a hundred of normal crates, OF COURSES you'll not be able to have them fast ! The cost is reasonable , you may not have one for this crate season, but you'll be able to buy some next season ! And remember, it's FREE w/o grind ! Some player complained that cosmetic was almost every time in crown store, and now they complain because they can't have mount/skin/whatever as fast as they want ! Be patient guys, and don't be greedy !

The whole point of video game forums is to give community feedback on the state of the game and it's systems. When you see a lot of complaining about one system in game that might mean it's not well received and might need revisiting.

Lets do the math by the way, right now it will take about 300 days to get the rarest mount in the store. crown crate seasons don't last 300 days. Simple math is telling us there is no possible way to buy what is being advertised even if you never miss a day in game doing everything needed for your endeavors. That's a system that could use some tweaking no matter how you look at it.

Now that tweak could be to increase the rewards for the daily seals, that could also be the ability to "lock" an endeavor in place no matter what crown crate season is active. You "locked in" this one reward and while yes it will be about a year before you get it, you can still get it.

But here is my point, people complaining it's mathematically impossible to get the rewards being advertised are not being 'greedy' they are using simple calculations to realize the carrot being dangled will never be reachable.

Now this is invalid because now we know that endeavors is random.
Day 1 - 20 endeavors each
Day 2 - 15 endeavors each
Day 3 - 25 endeavors each

So who knows, one day it could be 50 endeavors each when you login

Bl4ckR3alm93 · June 2021

Veita wrote: »

Endeavers are totally fine, it is a free way to get stuff you have to pay for usually. People are just never satisfied, no matter what you do and they will never stop to ask for more and more until they get everything for free while they forget that ZOS is a company that needs and wants to make money.

People are greedy, that is it.

Yes I agree 100%. People have to learn to compare and contrast. Especially logging in today to 25 endeavors each completion lol. Idk about you guys but im logging in everyday lol

PigofSteel · June 2021

I really dont care about it.

SeaGtGruff · June 2021

Bl4ckR3alm93 wrote: »

Now this is invalid because now we know that endeavors is random.
Day 1 - 20 endeavors each
Day 2 - 15 endeavors each
Day 3 - 25 endeavors each

So who knows, one day it could be 50 endeavors each when you login

Not only that, but according to the original news announcement about endeavors, the number of endeavors we can do each day can vary as well. I can't wait to hear all of the overly dramatic bellyaching in the forums the first day that we can earn only two endeavors.

Bl4ckR3alm93 · June 2021

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

Fhritz wrote: »

I mean... I saw a LOT of people complaining about the low reward and the expensive price of the store...But keep in mind that this is free AND required almost NO grind (I've done some daily without even noticing). We have now an opportunity to have crown store item for free, sure you'll not be able to have them day 1 ! Yes, apex mount cost a lot, but they are literally the RAREST thing in the crown store ! Something you possibly can't get even with a hundred of normal crates, OF COURSES you'll not be able to have them fast ! The cost is reasonable , you may not have one for this crate season, but you'll be able to buy some next season ! And remember, it's FREE w/o grind ! Some player complained that cosmetic was almost every time in crown store, and now they complain because they can't have mount/skin/whatever as fast as they want ! Be patient guys, and don't be greedy !

After a long time of even eso+ not working properly, I am pretty sure the players are not the greedy ones....

Endeavors are a, “yay, we found a way to keep loot crates!!” They are not anywhere near to bright dust in D2. At least you can actually grind things that were in the store for silver very reasonably in that game.

Imo they should get rid of loot crates all together and just have crown store items.

That way you just need to grind in-game gold to trade for crowns. They could copy D2 in the sense of having endeavors for featured items per week.

Destiny 2 doesnt have much content in my opinion plus they always pull content that was originally in the base game out to sell to us later. Last year they vaulted 2 DLCs that people (including me) paid for, and we dont know when it will return. Plus they dont have a trading system, their leveling system is a mess, most convenient things has to be done on Destiny App and D2 doesnt even have a text chat system. I do agree that loot boxes in general should just go but I would definitely rather have ESO's trading system, Crown Gem system and Endeavors system. Again you can even buy crown items with Gold now

Luckylancer · June 2021

ZoS will give us the minimum possible without creating an uproar from players. More content the players, more they can get away with.

I do not like how lower costing items are overpriced. 1 year for apex mount, 6 days for pots doesnt make sense

Curtdogg47 · June 2021

I like the endeavors fine! I would prefer it if our seals could be converted to gems! I feel a 10:1 would be fair. For every 10 seals it’s worth 1 gem.

joerginger · June 2021

Bl4ckR3alm93 wrote: »

Destiny 2 doesnt have much content in my opinion plus they always pull content that was originally in the base game out to sell to us later. Last year they vaulted 2 DLCs that people (including me) paid for, and we dont know when it will return. Plus they dont have a trading system, their leveling system is a mess, most convenient things has to be done on Destiny App and D2 doesnt even have a text chat system.

Yeah, that may be some of the many reasons why I uninstalled that game almost immediately after trying it for a couple of sessions (spread out over several months). While many things in ESO suck incredibly hard, at least they aren't quite as bad yet as they are in D2. No, that's not intended as praise. Far from it.

Since ESO has existed for such a long time, it could eventually strive to become an actual game. A "good game" would be even better, but I guess no-one should hold their breath for THAT to happen.