Trying out PvP for the first time in 6 years and I absolutely hate it. Any help?

Skander · June 2021

Get one of the two p2w classes like warden or necro

milllaurie · June 2021

Pauwer wrote: »

I don't know if a bit tanky builds at the moment are really working, unless you go absolutely full tank=can't kill anyone. Because in the latest patch the damage is just so high. I think better to play full damage and try to score a kill before they kill you.

Have you considered of using speed as your source of tankiness?

HumbleThaumaturge · June 2021

Yeah, there are some god-like players in PvP. I play with such elites, but I am not one of them.

NylAR, I did not see a posting of your Character stats in Cyrodiil (post-Update 30 stats please). One has different stats for PvP than for PvE. If you are playing above-level-50 campaigns, I would suggest you need a minimum of 28k Health (30k better) and at least 2200 Critical Resistance (from use of Impen trait on armor, or from Champion Point buff). Some players say one needs a minimum of 25k spell resistance and 25k physical resistance, but other players get by with less resistances. You need enough Health and Resistances to avoid getting one-shot-killed. You also need to be alert for moments requiring blocking and dodge-rolling to avoid one-shot-kills. You might need to shift Champion Points out of offensive (damage) buffs and into defensive buffs. You might need to be slotting self-heals and self-purges.

Now the other school of thought is: Be such a massive damage-dealer, you don't need any Health or Resistances (i.e., be a "glass cannon), because you kill opponents so fast, they don't have a chance to damage you. I suppose you could experiment with both schools of thought.

After gear and minimum stats, you just need to improve how you control your character in combat. As folks here have told you, join a PvP guild. They will give you guidance on gear and build and character stats. A guild will likely have a guild hall with target dummies, where you can practice (practice, practice) your "rotation." Guildmates will help you practice dueling, so you get better at blocking and dodge rolling, as well as damage dealing. As for PvP, it's much, much better for Cyrodiil play if you are on voice-comms (over Discord). That way, you can get real-time feedback to improve your PvP skills.

Togal · June 2021

Everyone can pve but not everyone can pvp.

irstarkey57 · June 2021

NylAR wrote: »

First of all I probably have no idea how to build a character to even stand a chance to learn. Everything is just way too fast paced for me and regardless of how much I try, I don't seem to be contributing much to anything. I don't seem to be getting better and it's extremely frustrating.

It sort of creates the feeling of being useless in there and having absolutely no objective or direction.

I've mainly been trying battlegrounds because Cyrodiil feels even worse. I feel like a useless worker ant and everyone else just seems to be having fun except me, not to mention whenever enemies show up somewhere I also always die within seconds. And can't even start to get an idea of how to play.

Is there anyone who can help me find a sense of direction on this completely new aspect of the game for me? Are there any actually useful builds? Most of the builds i find online seem to either be outdated and really weak or just feel like they've been put together purposely to give people an illusion of being ready just to be eaten up by more knowledgeable playerbase as a free AP snack.

Again, any help, tips or directions would be greatly appreciated here.

So far I've tried to PvP with Stamblade, stamDK and Magplar and they all feel like paper, yet when I meet other players they never die and just do a ton of damage.

Do you play for AD?

furiouslog · June 2021

NylAR wrote: »

First of all I probably have no idea how to build a character to even stand a chance to learn. Everything is just way too fast paced for me and regardless of how much I try, I don't seem to be contributing much to anything. I don't seem to be getting better and it's extremely frustrating.

It sort of creates the feeling of being useless in there and having absolutely no objective or direction.

I've mainly been trying battlegrounds because Cyrodiil feels even worse. I feel like a useless worker ant and everyone else just seems to be having fun except me, not to mention whenever enemies show up somewhere I also always die within seconds. And can't even start to get an idea of how to play.

Is there anyone who can help me find a sense of direction on this completely new aspect of the game for me? Are there any actually useful builds? Most of the builds i find online seem to either be outdated and really weak or just feel like they've been put together purposely to give people an illusion of being ready just to be eaten up by more knowledgeable playerbase as a free AP snack.

Again, any help, tips or directions would be greatly appreciated here.

So far I've tried to PvP with Stamblade, stamDK and Magplar and they all feel like paper, yet when I meet other players they never die and just do a ton of damage.

Here is some general advice based on my PVP journey:

1. Play in noCP until you get your bearings and confidence. It's more forgiving to changing builds because you're min-maxing on gear and skills, and you can leave CP alone for a while. IC is an exception because mobs and bosses hit a lot harder.
2. Balance stats/resistance/damage appropriately, and have both CC and defense readily available. I usually manage this by going sharpened on front bar and defending on back bar. A typical combo that is pretty reliable is spriggans/spinners on front, potentates on back, and then a heavy body set that will help out within your play style. This also depends on your play style - you're usually either being a glass cannon with tons of burst but will die fast (e.g. bombers and gankblades), or you'll have a viable opener that might be able to use to one shot, but if you miss it, you can fall back and re-up resources and stay alive until you can do it again. Pure stat/recovery builds can work as well as proc sets now if you have a skill set that you like and can execute well, so don't get hung up on the meta.
3. Practice dueling with a friend, and analyze the results with combat metrics. How hard are you hitting? How much damage are you taking? What buffs/pots are you using that help you?
4. Once you've optimized things for your style of play, repeatedly practice your short buff/attack/defense rotations on a dummy. I use the precursor dummy you can get from the CC quest for this purpose, but any low HP dummy is fine.
5. When you go to Cyro, find a group or at least follow a zerg. This gives you some coverage to practice things, and maybe you'll get some heals and rezzes if you die. This also helps to develop awareness. When you join ad group, tell them you are looking for advice and trying to learn, some people will be cool about it and you might even make a buddy. Others might be toxic, just ignore them.
6. Also in Cyro - when it's light pop, practice taking RSS and towns solo. This will help you figure out that balance of damage and defense/healing. If a small group or good solo player comes and rolls you, no problem, just go somewhere else and try again. I actually got recruited by my first PVP guild when they stood by and watched me take a resource on my own, and then I asked for a group invite while we stood on flag.
7. I would personally recommend avoiding BGs until you get your play style sorted out and have gotten a few hundred duel/Cyro kills under your belt. There is a high likelihood that you will come up against a premade team who is going to steamroll you so hard that you're just not going to get anywhere if you have not yet developed a solid foundation of map knowledge, teamplay assumptions, and gametype strategy. All that does is make you feel useless and overwhelmed, and it's easy to get discouraged.
8. Finally, join a more casual PVP guild, or a social guild that does PVP events which suits your objectives and personality (I run one of these). Either of these usually provide a safe space to learn and get better - and if I were you, I'd do this before MM starts, because many PVP guilds halt recruitment during that time to prevent temporary drop ins who leave after the event.

That's what I got for you, many people might have other or better ideas you can take on board. Good luck, and other than the technical problems with PVP, the occasional cheater, the learning curve, and the power balance in stuff like BGs, it's a good time and worth the investment to learn, even given all of its frustrations and imperfections. I do both PVP and PVE, and both are excellent sources of enjoyment on good days.

irstarkey57 · June 2021

NylAR wrote: »

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

You probably started with something like julianos/hundings in cp PvP? We have a high dmg low defence meta atm, so if you build wrong you will just die instantly.

You won't really learn how to PvP on your own. Join a PvP guild, run around duo or trio.

But most importantly never start PvP above lvl 50. Below lvl 50 is the perfect environment to play PvP as noob. Nearly no-one has min maxed gear, there are only very few good players (smurfs) and the gameplay allows you to get used to your class.

What build and class are you playing?

I'm trying out 2 different builds on my Stamblade mainly

1 is Stuhn's + New Moon + Balorg - Well Fitted
2 is Saxhleel Champion + Mechanical Acuity + Balorg - all divines

These are the only 2 builds I found that seem decent or not outdated as I mentioned above lol.

Shadow Mundus on Both

Food Lavafoot Soup

Also Khajiit - and that's not changing not after i played it for so long

I mainly run Dual Wield as I just can't get used to the feel of 2h - somehow or for some reason I seem to be landing way more light attacks on DW.

oh and it's NOCP.... I don't have the guts to see the horros of CP

Those are glass cannon gank builds man. High risk high reward. Those are not beginner builds and stamblade really isn’t a beginner class. Not trying to move you off of playing a class you like. After all, practice is key. Just saying those builds are extremely squishy when caught.

irstarkey57 · June 2021

Jeremy wrote: »

milllaurie wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

NylAR wrote: »

First of all I probably have no idea how to build a character to even stand a chance to learn. Everything is just way too fast paced for me and regardless of how much I try, I don't seem to be contributing much to anything. I don't seem to be getting better and it's extremely frustrating.

It sort of creates the feeling of being useless in there and having absolutely no objective or direction.

I've mainly been trying battlegrounds because Cyrodiil feels even worse. I feel like a useless worker ant and everyone else just seems to be having fun except me, not to mention whenever enemies show up somewhere I also always die within seconds. And can't even start to get an idea of how to play.

Is there anyone who can help me find a sense of direction on this completely new aspect of the game for me? Are there any actually useful builds? Most of the builds i find online seem to either be outdated and really weak or just feel like they've been put together purposely to give people an illusion of being ready just to be eaten up by more knowledgeable playerbase as a free AP snack.

Again, any help, tips or directions would be greatly appreciated here.

So far I've tried to PvP with Stamblade, stamDK and Magplar and they all feel like paper, yet when I meet other players they never die and just do a ton of damage.

Actually if you're lasting seconds (as in plural) you're not doing that bad.

I know that sounds ridiculous. But that's how PvP on this game is, especially in Battlegrounds. Unless you play as a tank and invest heavily into all kinds of defense, in my experience you're going to die in seconds or less if you get jumped.

There's a reason the battleground population is so low. So I'm not going to lie to you and tell you it's all about experience and skill. it isn't. It's just a slaughterfest by design. lol

Also: if you see a player who is never dying and doing tons of damage they are most likely cheating. So I would consider reporting that person.

If you want a better experience in Battlegrounds I would think about either creating or joining a coordinated PvP team. Because that's really the only thing that is going to significantly improve the experience.

No, they are not. Have you considered them being a better player who know more about this game, it's mechanics, generally playing more pvp than you?
Because when I train pvp I test my burst combo on a dummy like 50+ times, then duel with guildies, get my ass kicked a lot, duel some more, practice terrain, jumping kiting, etc. Then, when outnumbered, the burst combo is in my muscle memory and all I have to do is kite well and wait for you to drop your buffs. Reporting people is a total nonsense and this has to stop.

Nah.

Any player who is never dying yet doing tons of damage in a battleground is more than likely cheating. That or they are fighting some really god awful players.

It's a myth that "training" and "experience" is going to turn you into a God in battlegrounds and the OP needs to understand that and not be fed fairy tales. Because unless you're a highly defensive tank you're going to die - in seconds - if you get jumped by competent players on this game. That's normal and is going to happen to anyone who is playing this game legitimately.

Feel free to send me a private message anytime and do some battlegrounds with me to prove me wrong if you like. Because I would like to watch you run around in battlegrounds doing tons of damage and never die. And unless someone is actually cheating, they have nothing to fear from being reported. So no, it doesn't need to stop. We need more of it actually because the cheaters need to be weeded out.

[snip] Some games I go 8-3 when all teams are good and some games I’ll go 21-2 when matchmaking might be ***. So I’m supposed to get reported? And then you say practice is a myth? So no one is allowed to ever get gud.[snip] I’ve played same class for 6 years now and because I do tons of damage and don’t die sometimes or die very little I’m cheating. [snip]

[Edited to remove Rude Comments]

Herr_Flocke · June 2021

milllaurie wrote: »

How exactly could one be cheating in this game? .... But your character stats, resources, HP etc are all server-side and can not be manipulated by the client.

[snip]

There's in fact a lot that can be and is actually manipulated by some players. From things like auto break free, auto buffing up to queuing input beyond what the client allows (effect is way better than what you canl ever achieve with your muscle memory and meandering ping rates). And that's nothing the client or the server will usually detect, because these are all basically legit values. Just because you can't figure it out (no use looking at the API here), doesn't mean there aren't more knowledgable coders out there who can, and people willing to use their products.

And most of the more experienced players have a real good feeling if and when someone plays legit or boosted. What posts like yours do is basically playing a game of plausible deniability. Just because certain combos and actions might be achieved with legit gameplay in certain circumstances, doesn't mean people don't use helpers to get them and a bit more pretty constantly.

[Edited to remove Rude Comments]

Tranquilizer · June 2021

irstarkey57 wrote: »

NylAR wrote: »

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

You probably started with something like julianos/hundings in cp PvP? We have a high dmg low defence meta atm, so if you build wrong you will just die instantly.

You won't really learn how to PvP on your own. Join a PvP guild, run around duo or trio.

But most importantly never start PvP above lvl 50. Below lvl 50 is the perfect environment to play PvP as noob. Nearly no-one has min maxed gear, there are only very few good players (smurfs) and the gameplay allows you to get used to your class.

What build and class are you playing?

I'm trying out 2 different builds on my Stamblade mainly

1 is Stuhn's + New Moon + Balorg - Well Fitted
2 is Saxhleel Champion + Mechanical Acuity + Balorg - all divines

These are the only 2 builds I found that seem decent or not outdated as I mentioned above lol.

Shadow Mundus on Both

Food Lavafoot Soup

Also Khajiit - and that's not changing not after i played it for so long

I mainly run Dual Wield as I just can't get used to the feel of 2h - somehow or for some reason I seem to be landing way more light attacks on DW.

oh and it's NOCP.... I don't have the guts to see the horros of CP

Those are glass cannon gank builds man. High risk high reward. Those are not beginner builds and stamblade really isn’t a beginner class. Not trying to move you off of playing a class you like. After all, practice is key. Just saying those builds are extremely squishy when caught.

Absolutely this.

These builds are hit & run builds and work best when paired with high speed and cloak. Consider working a Ring of the Wild Hunt into your build, or use 3x swift jewelry, try using Concealed Weapon for a 25% speed increase when sneaking. Beeing a vampire stage 2 also helps a lot because of the removed sneak speed penalty (stage 1) and the 300 weapon damage from stealth (stage 2). Channeled Acceleration from Psijik skill line is also a good skill.

Also, you should have at least 16k magicka for cloak, cloak and .. well you know... cloak. So Lavafoot Soup wouldn't be your best bet, better try Bewitched Sugar Skulls. If you think you lack sustain try Deep Thoughts from the Psijik Order skill line.

There are a lot of videos on Youtube explaining the ganking play style.

Remember: If you're caught - you're dead.

/Edit: Typo

Herr_Flocke · June 2021

Tranquilizer wrote: »

These builds are hit & run builds and work best when paired with high speed and cloak. Consider working a Ring of the Wild Hunt into your build, or use 3x swift jewelry, try using Concealed Weapon for a 25% speed increase when sneaking. Beeing a vampire stage 2 also helps a lot because of the removed sneak speed penalty (stage 1) and the 300 weapon damage from stealth (stage 2). Channeled Acceleration from Psijik skill line is also a good skill.

all very good advice. And even with the right setup (damage and sustain are important) a ganking playstyle has still quite a steep learning curve. You'll die a lot and won't kill too much in the process of learning how to use such a build. Meaning which fights to pick, where to pick them and how to get away when all the enraged victims friends and their cousins suddenly show up with only your hide in mind...

But it actually is quite a rewarding playstyle too, once you get better at it. If you have a whole group searching their castle for that vile murderer of innocents (not really, we're in Cyro after all), and they don't get you and you get your kills while they're at it. Watching those guys getting more and more compulsive about killing you... Nothing beats that

Joy_Division · June 2021

milllaurie wrote: »

I know exactly how you are struggling because I was struggling for a long time myself. Try my guide on pvp tips: https://youtu.be/wlHzRucuxYM

I play on PC EU if you do too, hit me up in game @milllaurie

This video is very insightful.

I especially think the tip about the best form of mitigation is 100% correct. When posters complain about unkillable builds, most of the time it has nothing at all to do with their opponent's build or class, but rather that their opponent just does not allow them to get in many clean or consecutive hits.

I think copying builds from experienced players is a mistake (unless you can mimic their playstyle). Let's look at the two you listed:

1 is Stuhn's + New Moon + Balorg - Well Fitted
2 is Saxhleel Champion + Mechanical Acuity + Balorg - all divines

The first is a typical 1vX sort of build that strives for high damage and relies almost entirely on player skill to survive: there is no innate defense and actually has negative resource management. You're never going to learn in something like that.

The second build is striving for a very precise burst damage combination involving ultimates and specific timing to get in critical hits: something you're never going to be able to consistently utilize because you're inexperienced and will most of the time be reacting to your opponent rather than dictating the initiative.

When you are learning, I'd suggest sets that will (always or trivial proc condition) either keep you alive or flood you with resources so you can always use your skills to keep you alive. Something like Pariah is (if it hasn't been nerfed) really good for this because it automatically grants strong defense precisely when you need it. Monster set like Bloodspawn or Engine Guardian are good because they're proccing all the time and providing you with strong buffs/resources. Learn how to survive an opponent's burst combination first, then worry about trying to execute a correctly timed mechanical acuity + ultimate combination.

The other thing I'd advise is to have some form of mobile option or be fast when you want/need to. Make room on your bar for something like Shuffle/Race Against Time and also consider using the Steed Mundas, Ring of Wild Hunt, or Swift Jewelry. You will be surprised how "tanky" you are using these.

FantasticFreddie · June 2021

What you need is a guild that runs regular pvp events and has a couple people that are willing to mentor you.
What platform/server?