Trying out PvP for the first time in 6 years and I absolutely hate it. Any help?

NylAR · June 2021

First of all I probably have no idea how to build a character to even stand a chance to learn. Everything is just way too fast paced for me and regardless of how much I try, I don't seem to be contributing much to anything. I don't seem to be getting better and it's extremely frustrating.

It sort of creates the feeling of being useless in there and having absolutely no objective or direction.

I've mainly been trying battlegrounds because Cyrodiil feels even worse. I feel like a useless worker ant and everyone else just seems to be having fun except me, not to mention whenever enemies show up somewhere I also always die within seconds. And can't even start to get an idea of how to play.

Is there anyone who can help me find a sense of direction on this completely new aspect of the game for me? Are there any actually useful builds? Most of the builds i find online seem to either be outdated and really weak or just feel like they've been put together purposely to give people an illusion of being ready just to be eaten up by more knowledgeable playerbase as a free AP snack.

Again, any help, tips or directions would be greatly appreciated here.

So far I've tried to PvP with Stamblade, stamDK and Magplar and they all feel like paper, yet when I meet other players they never die and just do a ton of damage.

OlumoGarbag · June 2021

You probably started with something like julianos/hundings in cp PvP? We have a high dmg low defence meta atm, so if you build wrong you will just die instantly.

You won't really learn how to PvP on your own. Join a PvP guild, run around duo or trio.

But most importantly never start PvP above lvl 50. Below lvl 50 is the perfect environment to play PvP as noob. Nearly no-one has min maxed gear, there are only very few good players (smurfs) and the gameplay allows you to get used to your class.

What build and class are you playing?

NylAR · June 2021

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

You probably started with something like julianos/hundings in cp PvP? We have a high dmg low defence meta atm, so if you build wrong you will just die instantly.

You won't really learn how to PvP on your own. Join a PvP guild, run around duo or trio.

But most importantly never start PvP above lvl 50. Below lvl 50 is the perfect environment to play PvP as noob. Nearly no-one has min maxed gear, there are only very few good players (smurfs) and the gameplay allows you to get used to your class.

What build and class are you playing?

I'm trying out 2 different builds on my Stamblade mainly

1 is Stuhn's + New Moon + Balorg - Well Fitted
2 is Saxhleel Champion + Mechanical Acuity + Balorg - all divines

These are the only 2 builds I found that seem decent or not outdated as I mentioned above lol.

Shadow Mundus on Both

Food Lavafoot Soup

Also Khajiit - and that's not changing

not after i played it for so long

I mainly run Dual Wield as I just can't get used to the feel of 2h - somehow or for some reason I seem to be landing way more light attacks on DW.

oh and it's NOCP.... I don't have the guts to see the horros of CP

milllaurie · June 2021

I know exactly how you are struggling because I was struggling for a long time myself. Try my guide on pvp tips:

https://youtu.be/wlHzRucuxYM

I play on PC EU if you do too, hit me up in game @milllaurie

OlumoGarbag · June 2021

Well the build seems pretty good the only problem is that you run dual wield so you have exactly 0 healing. And every time someone catches you out of cloak you have no way to recover.

My tip would be play low lvl 2h stamblade for a week with crafted mecha + ancient drag. G. Then try the build on max lvl PvP. And get used to shadow image, it will safe your ass so many times.

electriczzz · June 2021

Hey mate! If you play on PC EU I'll gladly help out as well as much as I can, there are numerous aspects in pvp which can affect your personal performance and ofc your own enjoyment. full divines for starters has never really been used much besides if you're a gank nightblade. Consider bringing 2-4 pieces in impen otherwise you'll get critted hardcore by said nightblades and others. Make sure to bring some penetration, on stamina pvp chars I usually have a maul +sharpened or if one of my sets provide pen then I bring nirnhoned on the frontbar weapon, try to be around 6k pen (or above nobody sets a limit there really) I'll gladly help as much as I can in terms of set crafting and questions

Hit me up if you need! @MassiveEgg

VaranisArano · June 2021

Note: I started PVPing in Cyrodiil before BGs existed, and so I find Cyrodiil much more forgiving. Battlegrounds is extremely combat focused, so it's more of a trial by fire as far as "learn to play" is concerned. If you like feeling useful, it's pretty easy to buy siege and join a group in Cyrodiil. I don't recommend staying with the zergs forever, but PUG raids are a fantastic way to learn the basics of PVP in a more forgiving environment.

When I started to PVP, I had the same problem: I died so quickly that I didn't even know what I did wrong.

So I went tanky. Plague Doctor armor, the works. I still died very quickly. But now I lasted a couple more seconds, long enough to start figuring out what I was doing wrong.

There's a couple schools of thought to starting in PVP. One is to start in a normal PVP build and just power through the early phase with a ton of deaths. This has some benefits - you learn how to play in the same sort of build you'll use later on. This method might be better in Battlegrounds with No CP. Most of the BG builds are set to provide the right amount of resources and regen you need for No CP combat, and it's up to you to learn how to use them effectively. It'll take a lot of practice.

My approach was more akin to those PVE guides for your first VMA clear: do whatever gets the job done. The more experienced you get with VMA, the less you rely on gear. There are people who run it naked. But in the beginning, i went overkill on the takings and regen so there's more forgiveness and margin for error when I inevitably messed up.

Whatever approach you choose, in my experience, the closest thing in PVE to learning to PVP is VMA (or Vateshran now). There's a lot of dying as I learned the mechanics and learned what I needed to do to pass those mechanics. Then add that the enemies are intelligent and react to what you do. While it may seem that there are no mechanics to PVP, the more you play, you'll learn to identify the tactics that different classes and builds use, feel the ebb and flow of the battlefield, and find what works for you.

Firstmep · June 2021

Stamblade is one of the hardest classes to play imho, but very powerful when you do.

Viewsfrom6ix · June 2021

PvP definitely has a steep learning curve.

I think having a good understanding of combat mechanics will help a long way, like mobility, methods of damage mitigation, skill combos and other classes skill pool.

It will take time to learn all of that. If you want to get better at PvP, you will need to die a lot. Don't fret, every good PvPer was in your position at one point.

notyuu · June 2021

My three bits of advice
1: don' be afraid to experement with different gear, specs or even classes to try and get desired results
2: expect to die...a lot, at least until you get a grip on the fact that you need a ton of penetration and healing
3: don't give up..the diffcuility curve for pvp looks kinda like the image below, but if you can get into the swing of things it'll be the one piece of content that you'll keep coming back to

after all, I used to be just like you, a derpy templar with zero clue, zero damage, zero love for PvP, but I stuck with it namely for the transmutation crystals, eventally figured some things out, and..well it's now half the stuff I do in game.

ganzaeso · June 2021

@NylAR the best way to learn is to find a dueling partner that will allow you to experiment on different match ups.

Arbiter7070 · June 2021

When you’re just learning PVP, you’re going to die a lot, it’s pretty much inevitable. Buts it’s alright, don’t sweat it. The first thing I like to teach people is how to properly defend themselves. Whether it be by blocking, dodge rolling or a mix of both. You need to learn to mitigate damage. You need to learn to read and react to your opponent, manage your resources and try to predict what your opponent is going to do. You should start out by dueling. For me it was the best way to learn to fight. Also I don’t recommend stam blade as a character to learn to fight on. Can you it be done? Yeah, but you could make it much easier on yourself by playing a stamden, stamcro, stamDK etc. You definitely need to get used to the two hander. Watch videos on animation cancelling. For instance you can animation cancel straight into a medium attack after a d swing for an instant stun. In PVP it’s all about hitting burst combos. So you hit that stun, combined with a subasssault/blastbones and a dawn breaker and it’s almost an instant nuke on a lot of players. Now some good players won’t die from something like that consistently, but it’s good to learn. Also keep in mind you can animation cancel a lot of your abilities with a block or a roll dodge. This will help with your survivability a lot. I’m sure there’s some really good YouTube videos you could watch for that. But just starting out, learn to survive and learn burst second. Because you can’t be useful or learn anything if you’re always dead. We are in a high burst meta so you might want to run a defensive set like pariah or you could sell out for the burst as well.

itscompton · June 2021

VaranisArano wrote: »

Note: I started PVPing in Cyrodiil before BGs existed, and so I find Cyrodiil much more forgiving. Battlegrounds is extremely combat focused, so it's more of a trial by fire as far as "learn to play" is concerned. If you like feeling useful, it's pretty easy to buy siege and join a group in Cyrodiil. I don't recommend staying with the zergs forever, but PUG raids are a fantastic way to learn the basics of PVP in a more forgiving environment.

When I started to PVP, I had the same problem: I died so quickly that I didn't even know what I did wrong.

So I went tanky. Plague Doctor armor, the works. I still died very quickly. But now I lasted a couple more seconds, long enough to start figuring out what I was doing wrong.

There's a couple schools of thought to starting in PVP. One is to start in a normal PVP build and just power through the early phase with a ton of deaths. This has some benefits - you learn how to play in the same sort of build you'll use later on. This method might be better in Battlegrounds with No CP. Most of the BG builds are set to provide the right amount of resources and regen you need for No CP combat, and it's up to you to learn how to use them effectively. It'll take a lot of practice.

My approach was more akin to those PVE guides for your first VMA clear: do whatever gets the job done. The more experienced you get with VMA, the less you rely on gear. There are people who run it naked. But in the beginning, i went overkill on the takings and regen so there's more forgiveness and margin for error when I inevitably messed up.

Whatever approach you choose, in my experience, the closest thing in PVE to learning to PVP is VMA (or Vateshran now). There's a lot of dying as I learned the mechanics and learned what I needed to do to pass those mechanics. Then add that the enemies are intelligent and react to what you do. While it may seem that there are no mechanics to PVP, the more you play, you'll learn to identify the tactics that different classes and builds use, feel the ebb and flow of the battlefield, and find what works for you.

OP should take particular note of this advice. I had a very similar experience learning to PvP. When you get blown up in 1 sec it's pretty hard to learn anything from the "fight". Building tanky didn't win me any fights since I didn't have much damage but I was tough enough to survive through a burst attempt and got to start seeing rotations and how people set those burst attempts up. Do it long enough and you'll learn when to dodge, block or move based on the class and playstyle of your opponent. Once you've got the muscle memory engrained and can stay alive using those methods then you'll be able to trade the tank sets for damage sets, at which point you'll have to learn to balance staying alive with setting up your own burst to get a kill.
As for the setups you are currently using: either would be good if you're just trying for a quick gank from behind on an unsuspecting target when you've already got an ulti ready to go. But in a drawn out fight you're going to have to survive while waiting for a burst window to open which would be roughly every 20-21 seconds because of the cooldown for off-balance on the first setup and the cooldown on MA for the second. And if you enter a fight without your ulti ready to go you're going to have to wait even longer if you want to take advantage of the buff from your Balorghs.

Biro123 · June 2021

Go max tank and forget about kills.

You will still lose 1v1s, but you will last long enough in each fight to learn something.

As you learn, focus on defense. When to block, when to heal, when to dodge, move, use class-based defenses etc. You will then start surviving for longer, giving you more time in each fight to learn more. You may even win some as you survive long enough for allies to help.

Then you'll survive long enough to run out of resources, at which point you should look at altering your build to sustain more,

Then you can start looking for opportunities to fight back. Start adding some damage, dropping tankiness further, drop sustain as you become more efficient in your play, and you're pretty much there.

Jeremy · June 2021

NylAR wrote: »

First of all I probably have no idea how to build a character to even stand a chance to learn. Everything is just way too fast paced for me and regardless of how much I try, I don't seem to be contributing much to anything. I don't seem to be getting better and it's extremely frustrating.

It sort of creates the feeling of being useless in there and having absolutely no objective or direction.

I've mainly been trying battlegrounds because Cyrodiil feels even worse. I feel like a useless worker ant and everyone else just seems to be having fun except me, not to mention whenever enemies show up somewhere I also always die within seconds. And can't even start to get an idea of how to play.

Is there anyone who can help me find a sense of direction on this completely new aspect of the game for me? Are there any actually useful builds? Most of the builds i find online seem to either be outdated and really weak or just feel like they've been put together purposely to give people an illusion of being ready just to be eaten up by more knowledgeable playerbase as a free AP snack.

Again, any help, tips or directions would be greatly appreciated here.

So far I've tried to PvP with Stamblade, stamDK and Magplar and they all feel like paper, yet when I meet other players they never die and just do a ton of damage.

Actually if you're lasting seconds (as in plural) you're not doing that bad.

I know that sounds ridiculous. But that's how PvP on this game is, especially in Battlegrounds. Unless you play as a tank and invest heavily into all kinds of defense, in my experience you're going to die in seconds or less if you get jumped.

There's a reason the battleground population is so low. So I'm not going to lie to you and tell you it's all about experience and skill. it isn't. It's just a slaughterfest by design. lol

Also: if you see a player who is never dying and doing tons of damage they are most likely cheating. So I would consider reporting that person.

If you want a better experience in Battlegrounds I would think about either creating or joining a coordinated PvP team. Because that's really the only thing that is going to significantly improve the experience.

itscompton · June 2021

ganzaeso wrote: »

@NylAR the best way to learn is to find a dueling partner that will allow you to experiment on different match ups.

This brings to mind what Fezzik says to Westley in Princess Bride about group fights vs individual fights. They require different tactics.
Dueling is a very useful way to learn how to survive against and kill the different classes 1v1 and I'd certainly recommend it.
But BG's and especially Cyro are more often situations where you have to account for multiple opponents and can also take advantage of having allies to keep you alive or get kills.
I see a lot of players in Cyro with the Duelist title that look completely lost when they get into a big keep fight. And on the flip side many members of powerful PvP guilds that typically run in tight-knit, almost unstoppable, ball groups are basically helpless if you catch them 1v1.

shimm · June 2021

As others have pointed out, ditch dual wield for two-handed… they’re currently not even close to being on par. The Rally skill in two-handed is key - it boosts stamina regen and can function as a front bar heal (with vigor on the back).

Jaimeh · June 2021

I'm also a PvEer who has trouble in PvP, but would like to learn to improve (if only I ever comitted seriously, which I think is also key), I also play stamNB and from my experience I think foregoing the PvE DD mentality (if you play DD that is) is big part of it. In PvP weaving the same spamable on an enemy won't do much, you have to be surprising, and always build up to your burst moves. StamNB feels sometimes likes there is not enough variety, but if landed timely, they can still hit hard. Also, counter to PvE, in PvP movement is also key, LOS, kiting aroung boulders, etc., so that enemy hits can't land... and for NBs it's also tied to survivability because they are so squishy, for eg., I found that I always had more chances staying alive for longer in a fight if I engaged and disengaged a lot, by using cloak and shadow image. Of course all these require staying alive enough to implement them, and in that I'm in the same boat a lot of the time. I was using Briarheart with a 2h front/Clever alchemist, the heal from Briarheart was nice, but like you I don't like the clankiness of 2h, its light attack animation is clanky for me, same with executioner, and people seem to move out of the swing before it landed.. Anyway, I hope some of this was helpful in a way, and here's to learning to PvP

INe_Saninus · June 2021

I'm going to approach this a little different than most and keep it short and direct.

-keep your buffs up.

-Generally, people have an offensive bar and a defensive bar. There is a reason for this. Defense is just as important as offense in this game.
Stay on your defensive bar as you assess your opponents strength and strategy.
Make sure your defensive bar has your heals and skills that help you survive (cleanse, armor, streak, cloak).
...and of course:

-keep your buffs up.

-every class has a way of delivering their burst. Some are better than others.
Example:
*Stamden. You want your Dizzing Swing, Subterranean, and Dawnbreaker to hit as close together as possible.
So an option is hit Subterranean, Dizzying Swing>medium weave or another Dizzing which will trigger a cc>Dawnbreaker.
The Subterranean will come out right around the time that they are cc'd and are getting hit by the Dawnbreaker.
Great players are very good at lining the timing of this up to where it is very hard to defend though because everything hits at once while you are cc'd. Great players also know to...

-keep your buffs up

-Build for sustain. People forget this stat and I would say it might be the most important.
Doesn't matter how tanky you are if I run you out of stam and can have my way with you as you lay there helpless.
A glass cannon can survive a long time with good sustain just because they can block, break free, roll dodge, heal, and have enough gas in the tank to turn around and still fight.
Figuring out how much sustain you need vs how much resist vs how much dmg takes time and is very personal to the player.
Good sustain also allows you to...

-keep your buffs up.

milllaurie · June 2021

Jeremy wrote: »

NylAR wrote: »

First of all I probably have no idea how to build a character to even stand a chance to learn. Everything is just way too fast paced for me and regardless of how much I try, I don't seem to be contributing much to anything. I don't seem to be getting better and it's extremely frustrating.

It sort of creates the feeling of being useless in there and having absolutely no objective or direction.

I've mainly been trying battlegrounds because Cyrodiil feels even worse. I feel like a useless worker ant and everyone else just seems to be having fun except me, not to mention whenever enemies show up somewhere I also always die within seconds. And can't even start to get an idea of how to play.

Is there anyone who can help me find a sense of direction on this completely new aspect of the game for me? Are there any actually useful builds? Most of the builds i find online seem to either be outdated and really weak or just feel like they've been put together purposely to give people an illusion of being ready just to be eaten up by more knowledgeable playerbase as a free AP snack.

Again, any help, tips or directions would be greatly appreciated here.

So far I've tried to PvP with Stamblade, stamDK and Magplar and they all feel like paper, yet when I meet other players they never die and just do a ton of damage.

Actually if you're lasting seconds (as in plural) you're not doing that bad.

I know that sounds ridiculous. But that's how PvP on this game is, especially in Battlegrounds. Unless you play as a tank and invest heavily into all kinds of defense, in my experience you're going to die in seconds or less if you get jumped.

There's a reason the battleground population is so low. So I'm not going to lie to you and tell you it's all about experience and skill. it isn't. It's just a slaughterfest by design. lol

Also: if you see a player who is never dying and doing tons of damage they are most likely cheating. So I would consider reporting that person.

If you want a better experience in Battlegrounds I would think about either creating or joining a coordinated PvP team. Because that's really the only thing that is going to significantly improve the experience.

No, they are not. Have you considered them being a better player who know more about this game, it's mechanics, generally playing more pvp than you?
Because when I train pvp I test my burst combo on a dummy like 50+ times, then duel with guildies, get my ass kicked a lot, duel some more, practice terrain, jumping kiting, etc. Then, when outnumbered, the burst combo is in my muscle memory and all I have to do is kite well and wait for you to drop your buffs. Reporting people is a total nonsense and this has to stop.

BlueRaven · June 2021

NylAR wrote: »

First of all I probably have no idea how to build a character to even stand a chance to learn. Everything is just way too fast paced for me and regardless of how much I try, I don't seem to be contributing much to anything. I don't seem to be getting better and it's extremely frustrating.

It sort of creates the feeling of being useless in there and having absolutely no objective or direction.

I've mainly been trying battlegrounds because Cyrodiil feels even worse. I feel like a useless worker ant and everyone else just seems to be having fun except me, not to mention whenever enemies show up somewhere I also always die within seconds. And can't even start to get an idea of how to play.

Is there anyone who can help me find a sense of direction on this completely new aspect of the game for me? Are there any actually useful builds? Most of the builds i find online seem to either be outdated and really weak or just feel like they've been put together purposely to give people an illusion of being ready just to be eaten up by more knowledgeable playerbase as a free AP snack.

Again, any help, tips or directions would be greatly appreciated here.

So far I've tried to PvP with Stamblade, stamDK and Magplar and they all feel like paper, yet when I meet other players they never die and just do a ton of damage.

I am not a PvP fan myself, but I do like using siege engines.

So maybe that can be your thing? Just keep in mind you are fairly helpless while firing them.

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo · June 2021

It used to be fun OP, but that was several years ago.
We've been crying out for performance updates/server efficiency, but to no avail.
The meta constantly changes yet PvP overland (Cyrodill) is unchanged with little to no innovation in over 7 years.

It could be great, but it's falling short unfortunately...Also there is no desire for people to learn to play in smaller groups any more, they just bunch up in large groups together and it's rather sad and frustrating to see.

I can't recommend ESO for a PvP game any more..sometimes I try and I make people quite frustrated once they've witnessed the messy state that Cyrodill is and probably will continue to be until the end of this adventure.

Here's to optimism *raises glass*

Jeremy · June 2021

milllaurie wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

NylAR wrote: »

First of all I probably have no idea how to build a character to even stand a chance to learn. Everything is just way too fast paced for me and regardless of how much I try, I don't seem to be contributing much to anything. I don't seem to be getting better and it's extremely frustrating.

It sort of creates the feeling of being useless in there and having absolutely no objective or direction.

I've mainly been trying battlegrounds because Cyrodiil feels even worse. I feel like a useless worker ant and everyone else just seems to be having fun except me, not to mention whenever enemies show up somewhere I also always die within seconds. And can't even start to get an idea of how to play.

Is there anyone who can help me find a sense of direction on this completely new aspect of the game for me? Are there any actually useful builds? Most of the builds i find online seem to either be outdated and really weak or just feel like they've been put together purposely to give people an illusion of being ready just to be eaten up by more knowledgeable playerbase as a free AP snack.

Again, any help, tips or directions would be greatly appreciated here.

So far I've tried to PvP with Stamblade, stamDK and Magplar and they all feel like paper, yet when I meet other players they never die and just do a ton of damage.

Actually if you're lasting seconds (as in plural) you're not doing that bad.

I know that sounds ridiculous. But that's how PvP on this game is, especially in Battlegrounds. Unless you play as a tank and invest heavily into all kinds of defense, in my experience you're going to die in seconds or less if you get jumped.

There's a reason the battleground population is so low. So I'm not going to lie to you and tell you it's all about experience and skill. it isn't. It's just a slaughterfest by design. lol

Also: if you see a player who is never dying and doing tons of damage they are most likely cheating. So I would consider reporting that person.

If you want a better experience in Battlegrounds I would think about either creating or joining a coordinated PvP team. Because that's really the only thing that is going to significantly improve the experience.

No, they are not. Have you considered them being a better player who know more about this game, it's mechanics, generally playing more pvp than you?
Because when I train pvp I test my burst combo on a dummy like 50+ times, then duel with guildies, get my ass kicked a lot, duel some more, practice terrain, jumping kiting, etc. Then, when outnumbered, the burst combo is in my muscle memory and all I have to do is kite well and wait for you to drop your buffs. Reporting people is a total nonsense and this has to stop.

Nah.

Any player who is never dying yet doing tons of damage in a battleground is more than likely cheating. That or they are fighting some really god awful players.

It's a myth that "training" and "experience" is going to turn you into a God in battlegrounds and the OP needs to understand that and not be fed fairy tales. Because unless you're a highly defensive tank you're going to die - in seconds - if you get jumped by competent players on this game. That's normal and is going to happen to anyone who is playing this game legitimately.

Feel free to send me a private message anytime and do some battlegrounds with me to prove me wrong if you like. Because I would like to watch you run around in battlegrounds doing tons of damage and never die. And unless someone is actually cheating, they have nothing to fear from being reported. So no, it doesn't need to stop. We need more of it actually because the cheaters need to be weeded out.

INe_Saninus · June 2021

INe_Saninus wrote: »

I'm going to approach this a little different than most and keep it short and direct.

-keep your buffs up.

-Generally, people have an offensive bar and a defensive bar. There is a reason for this. Defense is just as important as offense in this game.
Stay on your defensive bar as you assess your opponents strength and strategy.
Make sure your defensive bar has your heals and skills that help you survive (cleanse, armor, streak, cloak).
...and of course:

-keep your buffs up.

-every class has a way of delivering their burst. Some are better than others.
Example:
*Stamden. You want your Dizzing Swing, Subterranean, and Dawnbreaker to hit as close together as possible.
So an option is hit Subterranean, Dizzying Swing>medium weave or another Dizzing which will trigger a cc>Dawnbreaker.
The Subterranean will come out right around the time that they are cc'd and are getting hit by the Dawnbreaker.
Great players are very good at lining the timing of this up to where it is very hard to defend though because everything hits at once while you are cc'd. Great players also know to...

-keep your buffs up

-Build for sustain. People forget this stat and I would say it might be the most important.
Doesn't matter how tanky you are if I run you out of stam and can have my way with you as you lay there helpless.
A glass cannon can survive a long time with good sustain just because they can block, break free, roll dodge, heal, and have enough gas in the tank to turn around and still fight.
Figuring out how much sustain you need vs how much resist vs how much dmg takes time and is very personal to the player.
Good sustain also allows you to...

-keep your buffs up.

I'm going to add one more hard lesson to learn. (I ran out of time earlier)

-Do. Not. Spam.
Do not spam your heals. (Vigor heals for 4 seconds. Casting another does nothing to benefit you.) If needed you can hit a burst heal once or twice, but learn to let your Vigor run.
*Do not spam your attacks.
This one is challenging to train yourself on.
Example:
Let's say I'm on my Stamsorc. They don't have the best self heals.
You attack me and take a chunk of my health.
Let's say I'm at 60% health.. I probably think about healing at 75%, but let's make sure that you really hurt me.
I switch over to my back bar to heal.
I trigger my vigor (4 secs) dodge roll and maybe mash out a Dark Deal.
You saw I was hurt and continue to spam Dizzing Swing because you felt you have a win lined up.
UNLESS YOU HAVE REALLY GREAT DAMAGE all those cast of Dizzying are a waste of stam.
I'm going to heal through them with 2 button presses while you're mashing out 4-6 cast that aren't going to get through my self heals.
Now my vigor finishes ticking while I walk around you. Dark Deal has healed me as well and given me stam back while you just burned 6 global cooldowns and a ton of stam for no gain.
The best time to get your opponent is when they over reach while going offensive.
They think they have you, but your HoTs are up. They're letting their buffs drop and spamming away while I'm getting ready to lay them down quick and clean and lining up my burst.

P.s. keep your buffs up.

master_vanargand · June 2021

Battle grounds are great for PvP practice.
Solo Battle grounds is fun.

milllaurie · June 2021

Jeremy wrote: »

milllaurie wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

NylAR wrote: »

First of all I probably have no idea how to build a character to even stand a chance to learn. Everything is just way too fast paced for me and regardless of how much I try, I don't seem to be contributing much to anything. I don't seem to be getting better and it's extremely frustrating.

It sort of creates the feeling of being useless in there and having absolutely no objective or direction.

I've mainly been trying battlegrounds because Cyrodiil feels even worse. I feel like a useless worker ant and everyone else just seems to be having fun except me, not to mention whenever enemies show up somewhere I also always die within seconds. And can't even start to get an idea of how to play.

Is there anyone who can help me find a sense of direction on this completely new aspect of the game for me? Are there any actually useful builds? Most of the builds i find online seem to either be outdated and really weak or just feel like they've been put together purposely to give people an illusion of being ready just to be eaten up by more knowledgeable playerbase as a free AP snack.

Again, any help, tips or directions would be greatly appreciated here.

So far I've tried to PvP with Stamblade, stamDK and Magplar and they all feel like paper, yet when I meet other players they never die and just do a ton of damage.

Actually if you're lasting seconds (as in plural) you're not doing that bad.

I know that sounds ridiculous. But that's how PvP on this game is, especially in Battlegrounds. Unless you play as a tank and invest heavily into all kinds of defense, in my experience you're going to die in seconds or less if you get jumped.

There's a reason the battleground population is so low. So I'm not going to lie to you and tell you it's all about experience and skill. it isn't. It's just a slaughterfest by design. lol

Also: if you see a player who is never dying and doing tons of damage they are most likely cheating. So I would consider reporting that person.

If you want a better experience in Battlegrounds I would think about either creating or joining a coordinated PvP team. Because that's really the only thing that is going to significantly improve the experience.

No, they are not. Have you considered them being a better player who know more about this game, it's mechanics, generally playing more pvp than you?
Because when I train pvp I test my burst combo on a dummy like 50+ times, then duel with guildies, get my ass kicked a lot, duel some more, practice terrain, jumping kiting, etc. Then, when outnumbered, the burst combo is in my muscle memory and all I have to do is kite well and wait for you to drop your buffs. Reporting people is a total nonsense and this has to stop.

Nah.

Any player who is never dying yet doing tons of damage in a battleground is more than likely cheating. That or they are fighting some really god awful players.

How exactly could one be cheating in this game? I have seen some real cheaters, yes. Using noclip to get through terrain and attack you from under the ground, I also have a vid of a player just running around in the sky above the bleakers outpost. But your character stats, resources, HP etc are all server-side and can not be manipulated by the client.

So you want to say that a magsorc who knows how to sustain, can make distance via streak, and has high damage is cheating? A warden that can heal a lot (do you know that healing scales to your damage stats?) and can do a simple combo of sub>dizzy>med attack>dawnbreaker is also cheating? Wait, maybe he has a lot of damage (automatically very good healing), has bird of prey slotted on frontbar for even more damage (also can use it to get major expedition to make distance if focused) an had two hands to press a few buttons.

Please provide specific point about HOW the people are cheating. Because coincidentally the people who are being called out cheaters are obviously more experienced and I can tell that by how they move in the terrain, how they barswap, react, switch to defensive etc. Also the people who do call cheats on them are usually a light armor char just standing in one spot and heavy attacking with a lightning staff (aka free ap).

Mayrael · June 2021

Biro123 wrote: »

Go max tank and forget about kills.

You will still lose 1v1s, but you will last long enough in each fight to learn something.

As you learn, focus on defense. When to block, when to heal, when to dodge, move, use class-based defenses etc. You will then start surviving for longer, giving you more time in each fight to learn more. You may even win some as you survive long enough for allies to help.

Then you'll survive long enough to run out of resources, at which point you should look at altering your build to sustain more,

Then you can start looking for opportunities to fight back. Start adding some damage, dropping tankiness further, drop sustain as you become more efficient in your play, and you're pretty much there.

This is actually the best advice here. To learn something you need to survive a little longer, the easiest way to do that is to create a passive defense by being properly equipped. With each fight you will learn new ways of fighting, tricks etc. Eventually you will stop relying so much on passive defense and will be able to anticipate your opponent's moves and therefore avoid them beforehand, thus making room for more offensive equipment.

Starting PvP as a glass canon is very frustrating and difficult, I do not recommend this approach.

Also, as a tank you will not be as useless as you might think. You can still capture flags, use siege weapons, and if you're good at what you do, a tank for example can try to get the enemy's attention and take a beating while your comrades can finish off enemies without being bothered too much.

vesselwiththepestle · June 2021

NylAR wrote: »

I'm trying out 2 different builds on my Stamblade mainly

1 is Stuhn's + New Moon + Balorg - Well Fitted
2 is Saxhleel Champion + Mechanical Acuity + Balorg - all divines

Don't copy glass cannon builds. Try to run a tanky build, so you survive longer and get a better sense of what is happening.

Try Engine Guardian, Pariah, Clever Alchemist. Get some impenetrable and maybe even reinforced on heavy big pieces. (You might want to run 2 heavy, 5 medium). Have at least 30k health self-buffed, run bi-stat or tri-stat buff food to get there - if you need extra sustain, use the Serpent Mundus and probably one Stamina Rec Enchant on jewelry. I highly recommend 2H for Rally (you'll want some burst heal). Learning how to use it is worth it. Use Immovable and/or Tri-Pots (or at least Health+Stamina).

Then find out what interests you the most. Running around solo? Running in a group? Big scale zergs? Smallscale? Try different things and then start adapting to that.

xeNNNNN · June 2021

milllaurie wrote: »

I know exactly how you are struggling because I was struggling for a long time myself. Try my guide on pvp tips: https://youtu.be/wlHzRucuxYM

I play on PC EU if you do too, hit me up in game @milllaurie

The healing tip is extremely important NEVER FORGET TO HEAL.

This also extends to shields as well, this patch forced me onto sorc and I died last night because of one reason; I was too slow casting my shields(Hardened and Healing ward) this allowed a rather annoying stamblade to exploit the opening and nuke me. Had I not been too slow, the fight would of likely continued.

Pauwer · June 2021

I don't know if a bit tanky builds at the moment are really working, unless you go absolutely full tank=can't kill anyone. Because in the latest patch the damage is just so high. I think better to play full damage and try to score a kill before they kill you.

Curious_Death · June 2021

Biro123 wrote: »

Go max tank and forget about kills.

You will still lose 1v1s, but you will last long enough in each fight to learn something.

As you learn, focus on defense. When to block, when to heal, when to dodge, move, use class-based defenses etc. You will then start surviving for longer, giving you more time in each fight to learn more. You may even win some as you survive long enough for allies to help.

Then you'll survive long enough to run out of resources, at which point you should look at altering your build to sustain more,

Then you can start looking for opportunities to fight back. Start adding some damage, dropping tankiness further, drop sustain as you become more efficient in your play, and you're pretty much there.

thats why i fight then 10 vs 1 and i cant kill any1 of this tanks and they dont do anything to me ... all that we learn this way is to stay away from pvp.

My advice is - find1 some who can give u free tips and duels - i do it often to players and some of them made smallscale groups 3-4 ppl and they doing great!