I had 12/13 daedroths on me in Banished Cells II, naturally by the time I taunted the 12th, the first ones taunt would have run off and they'd end up towards the DPS for a while.

I got told by the DPS, "can you please keep aggro so we can kill the boss?"

-_-

Don't forget achievements for tanks to block and roll.

I guess they will do the she same day they force players who queue as tanks to tank (or, at least, taunt) and healers to heal. See the problem? We are talking about other game that is not ESO, game where tanks have mainly tank skills, healers heal skills and DD don't need to weave, just smash keys in certiin order.

You don't need that much dps to complete vet DLC dungeons, there arent too many dps checks there. What is the main problem is the lack of knowledge about the mechanics in specific fights and also the belief "one does not need to know them".
I prefer a low DPS DD who knows what to do rather than a "pro high dps" that burns the boss on vMHK HM.

siddique wrote: »

I had 12/13 daedroths on me in Banished Cells II, naturally by the time I taunted the 12th, the first ones taunt would have run off and they'd end up towards the DPS for a while.

I got told by the DPS, "can you please keep aggro so we can kill the boss?"

-_-

Sounds like a nightmare. That fight with low DPS is one of the worse experiences you can have as a tank on this game. It will drain your soul.

The only viable solution to this: vote kick underperforming group members. It’s ok to be a noob in normal dungeon, but there is a lot of ignorant players who queue for vet hoping to be carried and they don’t even realize or care about their build and contribution to dungeon clear. You can be friendly and suggest advice, though to be fair everyone who queue for vet should at least look through some guides. A few such kicks should at least force them to improve.

Iccotak wrote: »

No

You get what you get in random, even rushers - who I despise.

Rushers are fun to watch though. Especially when they run head first into a Stone Watcher in VDOM and get fly swatted

I only ever DD-Tank in the Group-Finder now, and even then I find myself dealing 60-70% of the whole group's damage, and that's considering only half of my skills deal damage (need a taunt, a ward, etc). Whenever I need to run actual hard content that requires traditional tanking, I'll ask my friends to come since they're great at their role and I can count on them. Not to say that there aren't good DDs in Group-Finder; I've met many with an amazing damage output, but they really are the minority.

Standing around refreshing your buffs while watching Andy light attack a mini-boss for 20 minutes is one of the worst experiences I've had in any game. It gets even worse considering how you will be blamed for any mistake they make, EVEN their own poor DPS (I've been told to "tank better" before because stuff wasn't dying fast enough). I feel like a lot of these DDs have some sort of "main character" syndrome which makes it hard not only to deal with their poor damage, but also their toxicity.

When it comes to toxicity there's no excuse, of course, but when it comes to dealing damage I feel like the actual game does a poor job at teaching players. I understand it if someone has awful DPS when the game has just told them "okay, these are LAs, these are HAs, and these are Abilities. Have fun." These players of course should seek a proper guide online, which can easily be found, but the game itself should do a much better job at explaining vital concepts such as weaving and rotations, especially if ZOS doesn't plan on eliminating the former.

Vet content doesn't even require much DPS.

Seriously.

It can all be cleared with mediocre to poor DPS. The issue is that people don't know the mechanics, or they're so used to facerolling/getting carried that they think that experience is representative of boss mechanics.

The guy above with 13 deadroths didn't have a DPS problem he had DPS that only focused the boss. That's an approach to that fight that people are accustomed to but it's a mechanics bypass through high dps.

You can even do vet trials with mediocre DPS (and I have the achievements to prove it from my time with an old guild).

That's not to say some DPS couldn't up their game and do better. Of course they can (those that just light attack have a special hell awaiting them) but the core of the issue is about not knowing the mechanics and the community as a whole being so accustomed to having the DPS to blow through or bypass them.

Remember a lot of these vet dungeons were implemented when 10k dps was good and 20k was outstanding. The power creep is real.

Tra_Lalan wrote: »

You don't need that much dps to complete vet DLC dungeons, there arent too many dps checks there. What is the main problem is the lack of knowledge about the mechanics in specific fights and also the belief "one does not need to know them".
I prefer a low DPS DD who knows what to do rather than a "pro high dps" that burns the boss on vMHK HM.

I prefer the ones who also know mechs but don’t need to do them and can just burn. But yea I mean I won’t do the dungeon if I have to pug. Well, dlc’s at least. I paid my dues with that 1200 cp ago

Tanking and watching paint dry in Vet content is emotionally draining. And yes, you do need some form of dps to complete a good deal of vet content.

1. ICP: The Overfiend- He can be repeatedly revived throughout the fight
2. ICP: The Flesh Sculptor - Flesh Atronachs will enrage if left up long enough and start to one punch man everything in the room
3. Fungal Grotto 2: Gamyne Bandu- The shadow execution mechanic is timed and requires the shadow adds to be destroyed before the pinned player is stabbed to death
4. ScaleCaller Peak: The ice adds that appear at 80%, 60%, 40% and 20% during the ZAAN fight, need to be burned down to make ZAAN drop her shield to continue each new phase. Low or mediocre dps won't be able to burn through both of them before the freeze burst damage kills them. And if they stay up too long, one will usually take a step forward and become invincible. (Don't know if it's a glitch or intended mechanic) but it happens regardless.

vet dlc is knowing mechanics. i agree with what anyone's said about that. you can have super high dps, but if you don't know the mechanics, you're gonna die

CoronHR wrote: »

vet dlc is knowing mechanics. i agree with what anyone's said about that. you can have super high dps, but if you don't know the mechanics, you're gonna die

if you dont have dps while knowing mechs you will also die in some dungs, few was mentioned above already and I will add few more:

- Cauldron - gg kiting last boss around with more and more addons with daedroths which are burning you/your stamina fast if you try to block it for a seconds to long, iron atro boss and dremora boss before - get overhelmed by adds

- Black Drake Villa - salamanders empowering minos and 1st boss mino - gg to tank boss a bit longer when he is empowere by salamander and even better - when you will have more salamaders comming! and on classes which are not full for tank like dk or necro wont be it even possible to tank i to long

- Cradle of Shadows - last boss - adds with their mechanics will ovelhelm you with constant stuns and damage on top of balls draining your resources if you step on them

- City of Ash 2 - last boss, if you cant kill boss before destroying all platforms then gg killing it without them

- Spindleclirh 2 - basic very old dung xD gg staying alive 1shot by falling cave on gargoyle boss if you have not enough dps to kill him xD

- Lair of Maarselok - 2nd or 3d boss cant remember - big tree to kill for which you need to kill golem for seed to be able to damage to that tree - if you cant burst this tree within 2 time taking down its shield, 3 at worst then gg just staying alive and killing all stranglers spawning everywhere which also can hit hard when they are more

and I think if we search we still could find a few more dung where without dps you wont pass even knowing mechanics if there will be anyway for dps checks

Master_Shorty wrote: »

Ive read most of the comments above and i can only think of 1 simple solution (DONT PUG), join into a good guild and run the content with Guildies, there are TONS of Guilds around and you can be in up to 5 at the same time so there is no reason to pug "ever". Even if you want to be in "Trading Guilds" most if not all trading Guilds also run dungeon content, and there are some rather good "free" Trading Guild around.

sorry but I got no space for more guild - Im with 1 friendly guild, with friends and 1 ffriendly rial progressing guilds, rest I have trade guild and if I had more slots for sure I would be in even more of trade guilds because how we have trade system here

biggest question is why people are queuing for dung they are unable to run on their role? like....you got both dps who cant pass dps check in dung...then are they still ready for this dung to go or they should stop queueing for this dung until they get better to be able to complete it with their role?

if I as tank cant stay alive with even a single boss in dungs then should I be still trying to "survive" this without changing anything in my build with hope others teammates will carry me here by their high dps and kiting boss if it is able to kite?
or should I adapt/improve, change myself, my build to be able to survive this boss?

should I still queue for this dung I cant handle an boss here with hope teammates will carry me everytime here if that will be even possble? or maybe I should stop here with this until I would improe myself, my build for this to be able to handle that?

iksde wrote: »

Master_Shorty wrote: »

Ive read most of the comments above and i can only think of 1 simple solution (DONT PUG), join into a good guild and run the content with Guildies, there are TONS of Guilds around and you can be in up to 5 at the same time so there is no reason to pug "ever". Even if you want to be in "Trading Guilds" most if not all trading Guilds also run dungeon content, and there are some rather good "free" Trading Guild around.

sorry but I got no space for more guild - Im with 1 friendly guild, with friends and 1 ffriendly rial progressing guilds, rest I have trade guild and if I had more slots for sure I would be in even more of trade guilds because how we have trade system here

biggest question is why people are queuing for dung they are unable to run on their role? like....you got both dps who cant pass dps check in dung...then are they still ready for this dung to go or they should stop queueing for this dung until they get better to be able to complete it with their role?

if I as tank cant stay alive with even a single boss in dungs then should I be still trying to "survive" this without changing anything in my build with hope others teammates will carry me here by their high dps and kiting boss if it is able to kite?
or should I adapt/improve, change myself, my build to be able to survive this boss?

should I still queue for this dung I cant handle an boss here with hope teammates will carry me everytime here if that will be even possble? or maybe I should stop here with this until I would improe myself, my build for this to be able to handle that?

There are good players in any guild, even trade guilds.

If you're in 5 guilds and you can't find a handful of other competent players in those 5 guilds then the problem is likely you. Either you don't have the rudimentary social skills to build alliances, or you just can't be bothered putting together a shortlist of competent players you can count on.

Nothing wrong with either. But it does limit you to the random group finder, warts and all.

seldomseenkd wrote: »

iksde wrote: »

Master_Shorty wrote: »

Ive read most of the comments above and i can only think of 1 simple solution (DONT PUG), join into a good guild and run the content with Guildies, there are TONS of Guilds around and you can be in up to 5 at the same time so there is no reason to pug "ever". Even if you want to be in "Trading Guilds" most if not all trading Guilds also run dungeon content, and there are some rather good "free" Trading Guild around.

sorry but I got no space for more guild - Im with 1 friendly guild, with friends and 1 ffriendly rial progressing guilds, rest I have trade guild and if I had more slots for sure I would be in even more of trade guilds because how we have trade system here

biggest question is why people are queuing for dung they are unable to run on their role? like....you got both dps who cant pass dps check in dung...then are they still ready for this dung to go or they should stop queueing for this dung until they get better to be able to complete it with their role?

if I as tank cant stay alive with even a single boss in dungs then should I be still trying to "survive" this without changing anything in my build with hope others teammates will carry me here by their high dps and kiting boss if it is able to kite?
or should I adapt/improve, change myself, my build to be able to survive this boss?

should I still queue for this dung I cant handle an boss here with hope teammates will carry me everytime here if that will be even possble? or maybe I should stop here with this until I would improe myself, my build for this to be able to handle that?

There are good players in any guild, even trade guilds.

If you're in 5 guilds and you can't find a handful of other competent players in those 5 guilds then the problem is likely you. Either you don't have the rudimentary social skills to build alliances, or you just can't be bothered putting together a shortlist of competent players you can count on.

Nothing wrong with either. But it does limit you to the random group finder, warts and all.

But is the "Just join a guild" solution enough to justify the quality of pugs? Experienced players can find people to run with instead, for sure, but newer players won't have much of a chance if the dungeon queue is full of players who can't really do the content themselves. All that does is create a wall between anyone new to the game from getting into more advanced content unless someone more experienced goes out of their way to help, but as is now most experienced players refuse to use the dungeon finder to avoid these issues. Players need to be able to gain some skills from playing before entering group content and that isn't there, quarantining the dungeon finder won't fix that or help anyone.