COMPANIONS - Gear Upgrading!

dPilgrim · May 2021

Many want companion gear to be upgradable in the same way as for player characters. I strongly advice against that. Only thing it will accomplish is a fast route to get your companion optimized to your desired build.
And in very few weeks most have reached that goal, end of incentive to develop your companion!
On other hand if nothing is done opens for to an enduring grind which leads to boredom and heavily farmed grinding spots.
My suggestion.
An upgrade system for companion gear which involves a completely new crafting skill line for player characters and therefore introduce equvivalent amount of new skillpoints.
Example: 21 new skillpoints that can be achieved through a new quest line, The Companion Chronicles, putting more flesh on the companion lore bones.
Two new crafting skills.
Rectification - 12 points skill to upgrade companion gear divide in sections like armor, weapons and jewelry with steps for fine, superior, epic and legendary.
Permutation - 9 points to be able to transorm to a specific trait.

BalticBlues · May 2021

ZOS made a BAD DESIGN DECISION by not making companion gear craftable.
This is extremely frustrating. There is no need to build more frustration on it.

We've spent ALREADY MONTH TO YEARS becoming master crafters for a REASON.
The reason is CRAFTING & UPGRADING gear.
If companion gear cannot be crafted or upgraded, this just SUCKS.
You even want people to spend 21 more skillpoints into SKILLS THEY ALREADY HAVE?

ZOS, please do not frustrate people with companions.
Please give us COMPANION CRAFTING TABLES to LEARN THE NEW TRAITS for crafting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5EDA7ZN4PQ

dPilgrim · May 2021

I should have mentioned that the new quest line should be lenghty, involve much work and maybe even involve group efforts to accomplish each point.

BalticBlues · May 2021

Group efforts for companions only good for solo roleplay? Why?

IMHO there is no need and no desire for new systems to build companion gear.
Longtime players want to use the gear systems they already learned and grinded for years.

dPilgrim · May 2021

BalticBlues wrote: »

Group efforts for companions only good for solo roleplay? Why?
IMHO there is no need and no desire for new systems to build companion gear.
Longtime players want to use the gear systems they already learned and grinded for years.

Only good for solo roleplay?
Are You really sure that it is a common beleif that companions are only good using when you are on your own and just for for roleplaying purpose?
Group efforts is to make you work for an achievement, however it benefits you in the end. It is after all a Multiplayer environment, not a single user game. And I am aware that a lot of people play it like a single game, wich always had amazed me.
Especially longtime players* benefits from new content, new challenges and less grinding ... in my humble opinion.

*FYI - personally I have been playing ESO since start, 7 years. Been playing multiplayer online games for 40 years now.

Xuhora · May 2021

dPilgrim wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

Group efforts for companions only good for solo roleplay? Why?
IMHO there is no need and no desire for new systems to build companion gear.
Longtime players want to use the gear systems they already learned and grinded for years.

Only good for solo roleplay?
Are You really sure that it is a common beleif that companions are only good using when you are on your own and just for for roleplaying purpose?
Group efforts is to make you work for an achievement, however it benefits you in the end. It is after all a Multiplayer environment, not a single user game. And I am aware that a lot of people play it like a single game, wich always had amazed me.
Especially longtime players* benefits from new content, new challenges and less grinding ... in my humble opinion.

*FYI - personally I have been playing ESO since start, 7 years. Been playing multiplayer online games for 40 years now.

What makes you believe that they are used in groupplay? I mean just from what we know: they can rolldodge TWICE per fight, they dont really achieve anything on their own, and they die incredibly fast. that alone suggest to me that they are allmost allways (like 98%) worse than another player, what ever skill that player has, it should be better. furthermore, they take a playerslot, meaning that allmost all groups would prefer a player over the companion.
these facts point towards, that companions are only used during soloplay, because them taking a groupslot does not matter there, you might as well have them active (if you have spare soulgems to revive them that is)

As for your suggestion: id rather not have to spent 21+ skillpoints to something my GMC allready should be able to accomplish. it is allready tedious to level the companions and increase their rapport, so why have two entire new skilllines added to grind out as well? especialy while CP 2.0 is supposed to let us swap roles easier with higher CPs. Id rather spend the skillpoints i have free on other skill lines...

StamPlar_1976 · May 2021

dPilgrim wrote: »

I should have mentioned that the new quest line should be lenghty, involve much work and maybe even involve group efforts to accomplish each point.

This has to be a joke right? Why on earth would anybody want companion gear upgrading to be convaluted and time consuming just because? Especially when we already have crafting system in place. Sorry OP. This is a terrible idea.

BalticBlues · May 2021

dPilgrim wrote: »

Are You really sure that it is a common beleif that companions are only good using when you are on your own and just for for roleplaying purpose?

ZOS stated themselves they intended to make companion weaker than players.
Therefore, in group content human players will always be better.
Human players are smarter, have better skills, have better gear.

So there is only solo content where companions could make sense.
However, they have no situational AI, they are just scripted bots.
Imagine you could only play a scripted rotation. How useful would that be?
Therefore, companions simply die in complex situations.

So, companions are bots for simple beginner environments.
Environments you are able to solo anyway. Is this what was promised?
Someone to HELP YOU in difficult environments? I am afraid not, sorry.

Therefore, companions make only sense for roleplaying.
They are like little puppets which can speak to you
and you can earn some dresses and skills and quests for them to make them happy.

Lugaldu · May 2021

In a way, I can understand the desire that optimizing companions equipment should not be something, what is achieved within three days. I also want to occupy myself with the companions over a longer period of time and let them "grow" just as it is the case with my chars. That makes for me an important activitiy in the game, I don't want to start right away with a max-level char. "The journey is the goal."

BalticBlues · May 2021

Lugaldu wrote: »

I don't want to start right away with a max-level char. "The journey is the goal."

100% agreement with that. However, companion gear already has entirely new traits. If we could craft their gear, we would need weeks to collect such gear and learn the traits. This kind of journey would be fine for me, because it had a smart crafting goal. Instead we get an artificial grid fest for months to grind the first kind of gear which cannot be crafted, researched and improved. Isn't this the poorest kind of game design possible? Summerset brought Jewellery crafting and this was a real feature to learn for months and then use for years. Why could Blackwood not bring something like that for companion gear crafting? Why is it the DUMB GEAR GRIND of a BEGINNER MMO again?

DinoZavr · May 2021

dPilgrim wrote: »

My suggestion.
An upgrade system for companion gear which involves a completely new crafting skill line for player characters and therefore introduce equvivalent amount of new skillpoints.
Example: 21 new skillpoints that can be achieved through a new quest line, The Companion Chronicles, putting more flesh on the companion lore bones.

Excuse me, Sir?
- New chapter is what to encourage players to pay their money to Zenimax, right?
- Besides quests, dungeons and visuals, which are just entertaining, what could possibly make my characters and gameplay better? Skyshards: to complete skill lines development, to buy some missing passives.
You, basicailly, offer to sacrifice more skillpoints than a new zone offers into another feature of that Chapter.
(i my understanding a thingie consuming more than it provides is a black hole)

So, i have to pay money and weaken my characters for the sake of Companions, which are:
- squishy
- losing their rapport each every often
- totally killing my inventory with theirs gear
- require many months of grinding to collect that companions gear in proper weights and traits..

No, thanks.
As for now Companions for me are not something motivating, but already deterrent. A lot of investment with very questionable results.

I strongly hoped Zenimax could improve Companions to make them at least useful and motivating to purchase a Chapter.
I'd not pay my money for something not properly designed and not thoroughly implemented, unless Zenimax fix players concerns which were expressed here at PTS forum a bazillion of times.
The urgent issues are:
- Companions surviveability
- Companions bugs
- Abysmal drop rate on the Companions gear
- inability to craft/reconstruct/improve/transmute Companions gear (no sticker book)
- Storage for Companions gear (this is a LOT of gear, potentially)
How many months should it take to get all 10 slots pieces in purple in proper traits?
How came gear was designed in 3 weights x 9 traits x 10 slots and no designer never ever thought where players should store that amount of things?

Buying Chapter for quests, skill points, skyshards and trial? Maybe
Buying Chapter to use (not to try and abandon in a week) Companions? No, thanks. Fix them first.

Basically, you suggest tp pay money for sacrificing characters efficiency (which is being nerfed further down with cutting CP2.0 passives in half) for the Companions thing, which in my opinion would not pay back, at least, unless seriously fixed.

As a suggestion for Zenimax: give Companions a craft skill line to make them improve/transmute theirs gear and add them a huge bag to carry theirs gear.

edit: fixed a lot of typos

Lugaldu · May 2021

BalticBlues wrote: »

Summerset brought Jewellery crafting and this was a real feature to learn for months and then use for years. Why could Blackwood not bring something like that for companion gear crafting?

Ok, its true that this would be a nice option and would make sense. Sometimes I wonder why devs are not thinking about something like that or can´t imagine it may be important for the players, same as with the problem of the companion´s gear storage...

dPilgrim · May 2021

Of course there is a lot of issues with the companions as of now in testing.
Pathing is terrible, they generate way too much aggro, inventor and more.
All these things has been covered in other posts.
I hoped for a constructive discussion just about companion gear upgrade problems.
As stated in the header for this thread.
Because as it is right now in testing it is not encouraging .. to say at least.
If you think companions is beyond restoration is all other discussions meaningless.
But if companion is going to be of any use or joy for us we have to make an effort on problemsolving.
- How to alter the gear management for companions to make them playable.
For, as a member of a very very small guild the companion, if improved, can be a useful addition when we are just two online or when it is just me and I need some extra healing or dps.
It would be crazy if they could replace a player character though.
However companions end up I can not see any reason they could be any annoyance for all those that don't want to use them except their sheer presence, wich could be really annoying in certain situations.
I see them as an auxiliary tool like an extra weapon or an extra heal slot.
And I shall make a post of the problems I experince beyond the gear upgrade problems.
... and I really dislike PUG's

honey_badger82 · May 2021

dPilgrim wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

Group efforts for companions only good for solo roleplay? Why?
IMHO there is no need and no desire for new systems to build companion gear.
Longtime players want to use the gear systems they already learned and grinded for years.

*FYI - personally I have been playing ESO since start, 7 years. Been playing multiplayer online games for 40 years now.

40 years huh? Been playing them MMOs since 1981? [snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting]

BalticBlues · May 2021

dPilgrim wrote: »

I see them as an auxiliary tool like an extra weapon or an extra heal slot.

I feel the same way.
However, the Tamagotchian way companions are designed now, I rather would prefer

fully skilled/geared companions not asking questions to hire for 1000 gold per day
Daedra conjuror or Animal tamer skill line open for all classses
Rolis Hlaalu selling companion weapons instead of months for boss grinds

The most elegant solution for a smart trait learning grind instead of a dumb boss killing grind still would be crafting tables to learn and craft companion gear. If Summerset could bring us crafting tables to learn and craft jewellery, Blackwould should bring us crafting tables to learn and craft companion gear. It is such a RELIEF that the old ESO days are LONG GONE where we have to run dungeons/arenas for MONTHS to get a special trait. Why now bringing back the pain, ZOS?

dPilgrim · May 2021

honey_badger82 wrote: »

dPilgrim wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

Group efforts for companions only good for solo roleplay? Why?
IMHO there is no need and no desire for new systems to build companion gear.
Longtime players want to use the gear systems they already learned and grinded for years.

*FYI - personally I have been playing ESO since start, 7 years. Been playing multiplayer online games for 40 years now.

40 years huh? Been playing them MMOs since 1981? [snip]

My guess is that You are quite a bit younger than me (I was born 6 years after WWII) and not have done Your homework before coming to wrong conclusion Honey B.
I played MUD on a nDEC PDP-10 via ARPANET 1981 at University ... wich understandably does not say anything for You.

MUD /mʌd/, noun, plural noun: MUDs - a computer-based text or virtual reality game which several players play at the same time, interacting with each other as well as with characters controlled by the computer.
MUD Wiki
DEC PDP-10 Wiki
ARPANET Wiki
History of massively multiplayer online games

Every oppurtunity to learn something new should be embraced!

jwellsub17_ESO2 · May 2021

honey_badger82 wrote: »

40 years huh? Been playing them MMOs since 1981? [snip]

They didn't say MMOs, instead they said;

dPilgrim wrote:

*FYI - personally I have been playing ESO since start, 7 years. Been playing multiplayer online games for 40 years now.

Considering I have been playing online multiplayer games since the late '70s and MMOs since '93, I don't see their statement as hard to take.

EDIT: Clarified who said what.

cyberjanet · May 2021

Hm. I'm not buying this chapter and that is because companions will be IMPOSSIBLE to gear.

I understand that some people have wonderful RNG and will get all the armour they need in the normal course of play.
However, it took me two years to get a burning spellweave staff. There's a very good reason I don't buy crown crates. By the time I got all the leads for the Thrassian mythic item, it had been nerfed and was unusable.

Really, I don't want this unobtainable crap for companions. Crafting would be good. Learning traits and stuff is fine. I disagree with the OP in the strongest possible terms.

Kesstryl · May 2021

honey_badger82 wrote: »

dPilgrim wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

Group efforts for companions only good for solo roleplay? Why?
IMHO there is no need and no desire for new systems to build companion gear.
Longtime players want to use the gear systems they already learned and grinded for years.

*FYI - personally I have been playing ESO since start, 7 years. Been playing multiplayer online games for 40 years now.

40 years huh? Been playing them MMOs since 1981? [snip]

I hate to show my age by saying this, but yeah, MUDs have been around for forty years. Better to do some research than to assume that something only belongs to your youthful generation.

Chaos2088 · May 2021

As stated by many of us, it does not make sense if your character is a master crafter and you cannot create or craft anything for you buddy. It does not make sense, maybe this was cut due to development time. But even if they say its a feature they plan to add soon then would be happy.

bmnoble · May 2021

I don't see an issue with just letting us upgrade the gear in the same way as literally every piece of gear that currently exists in the game.

Just add a brand new research section to the crafting stations, for us to learn the new traits and eventually be able to craft are own gear for companions, ZOS gets to sell more research scrolls to those in a rush and players get to sell research scrolls from the writ vendor to a much larger customer base.

Don't see why it needs to be any more complicated than that.

coop500 · May 2021

Has the OP tried companions on the PTS with max level and purple gear... ?

They suck, they can barely withstand wet noodles, in FG1 normal they're almost a joke but mostly a hinderece.

AT THEIR BEST they could be a decent healbot, but you have to babysit them because after two rolls, they stand in AOE and die in seconds.

I can't imagine how terrible they are level 1 white gear and slowly crawling to 'their best' still being almost worthless.

I would not put MORE time and then SKILLPOINTS into their asses than we already have to.

jwellsub17_ESO2 · May 2021

coop500 wrote: »

I can't imagine how terrible they are level 1 white gear and slowly crawling to 'their best' still being almost worthless.

Because of 'One Tamriel' they feel about the same at level 1 as at level 20. Having said that, skill selection feels more expansive at level 20, but that is about the only real difference.

Equipment differences and traits do appear have an outsized impact though.

Having said that, if you are leveling them with your L50 character in a L45+ zone, your companion will level pretty quickly. You companion appears to get XP as a percentage of yours, so in the L45+ zone they will gain XP faster. Your companion will gain more XP in Cold Harbour than in Auridon for example.

DarcyMardin · May 2021

Kesstryl wrote: »

honey_badger82 wrote: »

dPilgrim wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

Group efforts for companions only good for solo roleplay? Why?
IMHO there is no need and no desire for new systems to build companion gear.
Longtime players want to use the gear systems they already learned and grinded for years.

*FYI - personally I have been playing ESO since start, 7 years. Been playing multiplayer online games for 40 years now.

40 years huh? Been playing them MMOs since 1981? [snip]

I hate to show my age by saying this, but yeah, MUDs have been around for forty years. Better to do some research than to assume that something only belongs to your youthful generation.

Here’s another old person agreeing. Gaming online for several decades...yeah, that’s me, too.

Shantu · May 2021

I think many of us were hoping Companions would bring some new fun and enthusiasm into the game. Instead we get another annoying grind for a temperamental cartoon with ineffective combat skills. Disappointing to say the least.

KyleTheYounger · June 2021

BalticBlues wrote: »

Group efforts for companions only good for solo roleplay? Why?

IMHO there is no need and no desire for new systems to build companion gear.
Longtime players want to use the gear systems they already learned and grinded for years.

Thank you. Was going to post something similar to the OP and I'm glad I stumbled across this first. If ZoS want to keep their aging servers busy, then stop killing the unique game play the companions feature has added to the game play. My main mag DK is a master crafter in all skills. Specializes in heavy armor. But can't make a better set of gear (using whatever set they desire) to better compliment/customize my companion's combat effectiveness???

Better yet, why won't they also make companion gear available in the store if they really wanted to milk $$$$$ from players like me? Who work full time irl, and so don't have time to farm/grind for exceedingly non existent drops??

A LOT of players are going to be more than frustrated with the existing system. Scores of hours wasted grinding Dolmens, raids, dungeon runs etc. Only to get inferior green drops that don't even have the traits you're busting your butt grinding for.

For the love of all things holy ZoS, make companion gear craftable and/or available in the store FFS!

edit: just saw the video on this posted above. There is ONE and ONLY ONE reason why the existing inefficiencies in the Companion system exists as it now does. Particularly the strike the companion's inventory has against your PC inventory capacity. ESO Plus has an infinite storage for raw/processed crafting mats. And double critical core game mechanics like banks space, inventory space etc. etc.

This is the most blantant way to date ZoS has found to entice players into buying ESO Plus.

KyleTheYounger · June 2021

coop500 wrote: »

Has the OP tried companions on the PTS with max level and purple gear... ?

They suck, they can barely withstand wet noodles, in FG1 normal they're almost a joke but mostly a hinderece.

AT THEIR BEST they could be a decent healbot, but you have to babysit them because after two rolls, they stand in AOE and die in seconds.

I can't imagine how terrible they are level 1 white gear and slowly crawling to 'their best' still being almost worthless.

I would not put MORE time and then SKILLPOINTS into their asses than we already have to.

Wow. So the game play with companions is really that bad? Are they really that useless (with max sills/purple gear) for Solo game play then? Because if this is the case, then it really isn't worth getting the upgrade IMO.

Based on your post, is it fair to say you'll probably get the DLC after it hits the bargin bin then?

cyberjanet · June 2021

Companions looked like a great idea when they were announced, and I was really looking forward to them. But I'm so disappointed in the whole execution that I even began browsing other games to play. And it's not because I want them geared and levelled in a day.

I have done the complete Psijic Order questline on almost every character I have. I'm halfway through second-last character at the moment. I take my time, find the surrounding chests, do the gathering, grab the skyshards... you know, play the game.

But I skipped Blackwood prepurchase because I think it's going to take too long to gear companions. The drops were pitifully rare for me on the PTS, and of the three items I did actually get, not one was usable.

I was aghast that my stickerbook was useless as far as companions go. I had begun doing the dungeons on my NA character to start filling up his stickerbook, and I really hate solo play.

Then I got a companion item that said "You can research this trait"" and got all excited again. But no, one can't even craft the armour.

I am so disappointed in this whole companions thing. Ruined by too-scarce armour, can't upgrade, can't craft, can't have fun.

Of course there are some people who want their companions fully geared by the end of day 1. There are people who fly through the psijic order quests so fast they don't even see the chest three steps away from the breach. They're probably spending the 5 million gold to buy the purple jewellery at the guild traders the way people bought the jewellery for research.

Housing was ruined by scarcity. Jewellery was ruined by scarcity. And now companions are ruined by scarcity. Not falling for it this time.

I do spend crowns on Houseguests. I love Houseguests. So when Blackwood topples in price, I may buy it for the Houseguests option. Or I may wait for the DLC. And whether I will rush to unlock companions, hmph, not sure even. Just carry on playing on EU with online companions who chat on teamspeak. My NA boy doesn't need to solo any more dungeons or overland areas or anything.

Hurbster · June 2021

We need less systems, not more.

VaranisArano · June 2021

Since its been spared the ravages of of Three Banners War, Leyawiin is a very fancy city for an itinerant adventurer and Fighters Guild member. Mirri's leather gear is well-worn and scuffed from battle, and she feels like she sticks out like a sore thumb next to Varanis and Eveli.

One day when Varanis is crafting a set of matching staves, Mirri wistfully says, "Your carvings are so detailed. I'd love a bow that honors the Three."

Varanis wipes down the ash staff with ruby stain, bringing out the rich crimson color of the wood, then sets it aside to dry. "Sorry, Mirri, your training really doesn't fit with the type of bows I can make. Maybe we'll find one while we're adventuring."

"But you're a Master Crafter!"

"Look, I'm sorry, but it would take me a year to research all the traits for your gear, and then it'd be really expensive to improve it to legendary quality. Plus it would really clutter up my Book of Mastered Sets."

"Are you saying that I wouldn't be worth the effort?!"

"I'm saying the best I can do is illusion your bow so it looks better."

"That sucks."

"Yeah, I'm sorry. I'd craft gear for you if I could."