Companion aggro is... off

CaffeinatedMayhem · June 2021

Companions have a lot of natural aggro. Lets look at this a bit...

Without a taunt, enemies usually latch onto players based on:

Distance. Closer = more aggro, some bosses like whoever is farthest away.
Damage. Do the most damage = enemy aggro. Whoever hits the boss first gets initial aggro.
Body-blocking. If you body block an attack intended for another player, the enemy will often switch aggro to you.

Now let's look at companions:

Distance - It doesn't matter if they are close or far, every enemy runs straight to my companion. I can deal first damage, melee, standing on the boss' foot and they run straight past me.
Damage - I do much MUCH more damage, and FIRST damage in the vast majority of fights. Doesn't matter, boss still runs to my HEALER COMPANION (whose first move is to self shield).
Body-blocking - I have successfully gotten aggro by body blocking attacks that would have wiped my companion, but this is a really extreme solution.

I'm having a difficult time accepting that the devs *intended* for players to need to slot a taunt to keep their companions alive. Especially when the companion is obviously not geared as a tank. Having to make sure I keep aggro, and literally FORCE enemies to latch onto me to save my healer really makes having a companion... not fun. Especially since I intend to use my companion when I need more healing than I can reasonably slot. Now I will be losing 3 damage slots to use a healer companion: Self Shield, Self Heal, Taunt. Not cool and I'm fairly certain not what the devs intended.

kichwas · June 2021

It might actually be as intended.

It feels to me like the main purpose of companions is for lower skill AND casual players to be able to handle 'regular solo content' more easily.

The sorts of players than in other games need an aggro holding pet. Players who are also going up against challenges that won't easily kill that pet right out.

If your companion is easily dying to the content you're in - you're probably above the content it's intended for, and could probably handle that content solo.

In short, I think the companion's "game purpose" is to push up the 'floor' of the game's playerbase a little. It's for the people who find the regular open world content too challenging.

I could be wrong about that being it's intended purpose - but I suspect I'm right about it being the resulting impact. And I'm not sure if you could make a system that would be balanced for both ends of the playerbase's skill. If they made companions useful for folks like you - they'd be too overpowered for folks at the lower end.

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CaffeinatedMayhem · June 2021

kichwas wrote: »

If your companion is easily dying to the content you're in - you're probably above the content it's intended for, and could probably handle that content solo.

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Well thanks, but no, I cannot solo DLC world bosses easily. This is why I want a companion healer. An no, having almost 1900 CP doesn't automatically make any player "good" at everything. I am 100% certain the devs understand this,(even if most players don't)

So low level players who need handholding get... paper thin companions who die a lot. Have you played with an unleveled companion? They are kleenex. If a player needs support, the companion is NOT going to provide it before the COMPANION is level 7-10ish. A companion cannot provide support to a higher level player until max, and with purple gear in good traits.

I don't buy that "companions are for losers and real players don't' need or want them ."

Jaimeh · June 2021

I've seen this especially with Mirri, enemies will rush to her and she often moves further away so you have to chase the mobs that aggroed on her.

ADarklore · June 2021

I never understood how a Companion, who is doing SO MUCH less damage than I am, becomes a higher threat to enemies. Something is not right!!

Elvenheart · June 2021

My magsorc and Bastian decided to go through normal Arx Corinium together last night. Bastian was using a lightning staff. The first boss, the giant snake, focused on him shortly into the fight and got him pinned against the wall. Instead of leisurely killing the snake like normal I started furiously pushing every skill button like crazy to try and keep the snake from killing poor Bastian. Occasionally I got the snake’s attention, and Bastian was able to keep himself healed, so at the end he remained alive at the end for his tiny chance of getting a piece of gear (he didn’t get anything).

For some reason he occasionally got the attention of the other bosses, but not as much as he did with the snake. And in the final battle, he kept standing in the red areas and I would watch his health drop pretty low, but then he would heal himself just in time to not die. The same thing would happen with the boss with the pet snake. But he never died!

My Bastian is currently lvl 8 with all white gear still, poor thing. 🙂

AcadianPaladin · June 2021

My characters who have solid heals and/or a bear use Bastion as a tank. When I send the bear in to initiate the fight, a ranged companions spell/arrow will get there first (since the command pet command also commands companions). So the mobs all charge a ranged destro companion behind me, the bear latches on to one or two and the mobs are spread all over the place. With Bastion as a melee only tank, he gets there the same time as the bear, taunts the target and the mobs all stay in place so I can pour on the AoE and heals.

I have Mirri set up as a ranged healer augmented by some ranged attacks on my other characters. And I have her heals set up to go first. That way, I get full aggro and the fight is underway by the time she actually does any damage. She has the heals mostly for herself when she does occasionally draw aggro.

Iselin · June 2021

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

My characters who have solid heals and/or a bear use Bastion as a tank. When I send the bear in to initiate the fight, a ranged companions spell/arrow will get there first (since the command pet command also commands companions). So the mobs all charge a ranged destro companion behind me, the bear latches on to one or two and the mobs are spread all over the place. With Bastion as a melee only tank, he gets there the same time as the bear, taunts the target and the mobs all stay in place so I can pour on the AoE and heals.

I have Mirri set up as a ranged healer augmented by some ranged attacks on my other characters. And I have her heals set up to go first. That way, I get full aggro and the fight is underway by the time she actually does any damage. She has the heals mostly for herself when she does occasionally draw aggro.

So it sounds like a "companion as DPS" problem more than anything else. DPS duos even when it's just 2 players always have these chaotic ping pong aggro fights. It stands to reason that DPS player + DPS companion would also see some of that although it might also need tweaking.

CaffeinatedMayhem · June 2021

Iselin wrote: »

So it sounds like a "companion as DPS" problem more than anything else. DPS duos even when it's just 2 players always have these chaotic ping pong aggro fights. It stands to reason that DPS player + DPS companion would also see some of that although it might also need tweaking.

I agree it needs tweaking. I don't expect any enemy to completely ignore a companion, what I'm not getting is why enemies completely ignore me. It can be very difficult to draw any enemy off a companion, not to mention companion's sub-par combat AI. Honestly, I'm not expecting a companion to have anywhere near the combat-awareness of another player - but at least not standing in red would be nice.

Fennwitty · June 2021

I don't know if companions have any different rules about aggro, but this game handles aggro very ... differently than you'd expect coming from other games. And I main tank.

Essentially the only way to guarantee what an enemy does over a long fight is to maintain taunt. At the risk of oversimplifying, if nobody uses taunt, whoever a monster goes after in medium to long fights is nearly indistinguishable from random.

Iselin · June 2021

Fennwitty wrote: »

Essentially the only way to guarantee what an enemy does over a long fight is to maintain taunt. At the risk of oversimplifying, if nobody uses taunt, whoever a monster goes after in medium to long fights is nearly indistinguishable from random.

This is true but the problem here seems to be that the companions are being targeted preferentially in a non random way.

Like I said above, with a main DPS and companion DPS I would expect that random aggro ping-pong we've all seen in group dungeons without taunting tanks but that's not what seems to be happening.

PigofSteel · June 2021

Selling point...

logan68 · June 2021

kichwas wrote: »

It might actually be as intended.

It feels to me like the main purpose of companions is for lower skill AND casual players to be able to handle 'regular solo content' more easily.

The sorts of players than in other games need an aggro holding pet. Players who are also going up against challenges that won't easily kill that pet right out.

.

I have to say disagree here the game is already to easy. Companions are not needed for any person new or old to complete overland content. I've done it with normal drops no CP and weapons a only. Content is way to easy has been for years.

The game is becoming very boring and companions has increased that.

I find myself moving away from MMOs and into single player games where i can enjoy some stronger more meaningful encounters without having to play in a group.

Companions are a huge step backwards for engaging and difficult solo encounters. Not to mention they steel agro and destroy my ability to burn down the mobs in my traditional way. Perhaps this is intended to slow down the speed at which we the players burn through the sugar they call content these days.

ADarklore · June 2021

logan68 wrote: »

kichwas wrote: »

It might actually be as intended.

It feels to me like the main purpose of companions is for lower skill AND casual players to be able to handle 'regular solo content' more easily.

The sorts of players than in other games need an aggro holding pet. Players who are also going up against challenges that won't easily kill that pet right out.

.

I have to say disagree here the game is already to easy. Companions are not needed for any person new or old to complete overland content. I've done it with normal drops no CP and weapons a only. Content is way to easy has been for years.

The game is becoming very boring and companions has increased that.

I find myself moving away from MMOs and into single player games where i can enjoy some stronger more meaningful encounters without having to play in a group.

Companions are a huge step backwards for engaging and difficult solo encounters. Not to mention they steel agro and destroy my ability to burn down the mobs in my traditional way. Perhaps this is intended to slow down the speed at which we the players burn through the sugar they call content these days.

You do know, you don't HAVE TO use them, right? I mean, you're arguing like you are being forced to use companions. So if you are already saying that Companions are not needed, that they interfere with your play style, then exactly WHY are you using them again?!? I mean, this game is all about freedom of choice... but you seem to be arguing against your own choices.

Hoolielulu · June 2021

If Bastian dodge-rolls and pulls the boss out of my AOE ONE MORE TIME I SWEAR TO SITHIS HE'S A DEAD MAN

Red_Feather · June 2021

One time the enemy went straight for Mirri after I sneak attacked it and she proceeded to run away across the public dungeon and it followed. So weird, but that only happened once which is not so bad.

CaffeinatedMayhem · June 2021

ADarklore wrote: »

logan68 wrote: »

kichwas wrote: »

It might actually be as intended.

It feels to me like the main purpose of companions is for lower skill AND casual players to be able to handle 'regular solo content' more easily.

The sorts of players than in other games need an aggro holding pet. Players who are also going up against challenges that won't easily kill that pet right out.

.

I have to say disagree here the game is already to easy. Companions are not needed for any person new or old to complete overland content. I've done it with normal drops no CP and weapons a only. Content is way to easy has been for years.

The game is becoming very boring and companions has increased that.

I find myself moving away from MMOs and into single player games where i can enjoy some stronger more meaningful encounters without having to play in a group.

Companions are a huge step backwards for engaging and difficult solo encounters. Not to mention they steel agro and destroy my ability to burn down the mobs in my traditional way. Perhaps this is intended to slow down the speed at which we the players burn through the sugar they call content these days.

You do know, you don't HAVE TO use them, right? I mean, you're arguing like you are being forced to use companions. So if you are already saying that Companions are not needed, that they interfere with your play style, then exactly WHY are you using them again?!? I mean, this game is all about freedom of choice... but you seem to be arguing against your own choices.

Don't bother. This is part of the group "lobbying" the forums to get ZOS to make them a super hard overland. Like worse than Launch was. I honestly just want to tell that group this isn't the game for them, and that's ok. MMO doesn't mean "only cater to the elites" no matter how much they want that to be the case.

RageKing · June 2021

I also find it annoying that my companion constantly aggros and dies because of it, even when I can be slamming on a boss, he just focuses on my companion.

Supertonicbaker · June 2021

I tried both Mirri and Bastian out on a solo Fungal Grotto 1 and solo Vet Wayrest Sewers, to gauge how they handle things.

Mirri was okay in nFG but I had to fight that Dreugh King about four times as he would chase her and then end up resetting. Bastian did the best there, no deaths and held his own.

Mirri continually died in vWayrest, also making them run around the room as I chased. Bastian did better, though here he died a few times too and also aggroed the living bejeezbus out of everything.

It got very annoying as it went on. Probably best to keep them at normal difficulty.