@R_K I continue to be amazed by your work, and I continue to be a console peasant.

Keep up the great work! I don't really play much on PC and when I do, I don't use addons, but one of these days, I may decide to install EHT and poke around with it in one of my PC homes (just the inn rooms/apartments and Psijic Villa).

@SantieClaws I just stopped by on the EU server to enjoy a drink at your Tavern -- I love it! Very Khajiit-friendly. Also, I signed your Guest Journal to kick it off for what will hopefully be the first of many visits! ;-)

I just installed the latest EHT as part of upgrading to Blackwood. This feature is an abomination! You are forcing it down EHT users' throats with an extremely annoying scroll that follows you around. You are forcing users to install the community addon in addition to EHT, which some neither want nor care for. You are prompting users to install some application on their PC, posing a security risk. I hereby request that you leave this and the user community as opt in options. I expect this sort of aggressive feature bundling from Microsoft. Please don't fall into the trap of aggravating half of your userbase by making the same mistake.

StabbityDoom wrote: »

Running community is not required to run EHT.

Unfortunately, as of the latest version, that is incorrect. EHT now depends on EHT community. You cannot just enable EHT. You are forced to enable the community. This, in turn, enables that annoying in-game Guest Journal scroll, which follows you around wherever you go. It would be OK, if you could turn that off, but that requires you to sign the journal. When you try to do that, it prompts you to install / run the .exe. That is what my complaint is. Even though this thread is from 2019, forcing you to turn on the community is a very recent change, so forum moderators please take note and please do not close this thread.

I have downgraded my addon and it seems to work for now. At some point some API will break and you will need the latest version or discontinue using the addon or try to patch up the .lua of the old version, if you are a programmer.

I think I was unclear because of my double usage of the terms. When I say don't install the community, I don't mean the part that shows up under addons. That's supposed to be there and enabled. The community installer I mean is the one that runs in the background and is the exe you are worried about. So when I say "don't install the community" I mean the "exe" not the addon.

1 if you just want to use it to port to someone's house manually, without the open house listing feature, simply do not run the install exe and like I said, you won't be connected to the community server. Alternatively, talk to the author of PTF and see if they are willing to add favoriting. I know they are super responsive and helpful.

2 For a lighter experience, if you don't use EHT for building, only select EHT community and Housing hub to run at the character log in page. You don't need the full thing going to just visit other homes.

In that case, only enable the ones I have enabled in the red box:


3 As you know, but for the sake of those who don't, to manually hop to anyone's house, type /hub then type the name in the bottom and select the house you want. In that manner, it works similarly to PTF. No cloud access happening as long as you don't have the exe running.

Here's a pic of the box to use (in red) - yours may not look exactly like this because I have community server exe on in this picture.


4 The sign in sheets will still pop up - for now - and prompt you to install the community EXE. You can dismiss them though (type x when you interact). I've attached the screen you will see when you log into someone's house manually. I will speak to Cardi (I am not in contact with Arch) about that for you. Maybe he can change it.

SO TLDR: Don't install the exe. Just type x. It'll go away. Hope that helps. Then you can just use it for the hub. it should solve almost all your concerns.

fred4 wrote: »

StabbityDoom wrote: »

2 For a lighter experience, if you don't use EHT for building, only select EHT community and Housing hub to run at the character log in page. You don't need the full thing going to just visit other homes.

I'm sorry, you put in so much work into your post, but you missed the point. The "lighter" eperience I'm looking for is exactly the opposite of this. I want EHT. I do not want the EHT community or the housing hub. In fact when I enable the latter, that not only causes the annoying journal, which as far as I can see you have to sign one way or another in game (even if the .exe does not run), it also completely screwed up the last house I was visiting, because it loaded additional visual effects that didn't work properly and basically made everything disappear, the who surroundings, everything. I don't care for that bug-ridden and obnoxious community / hub nonsense. I just want EHT without it. I think the option should be provided to use just that.

Sounds like you got what you needed from downgrading to a previous version. Hope that stays functional for you. Maybe they will see this post and find some options for you.

I just installed EHT today. I actually like the guest book. If I visit someone else's house it just feels like good manners to let them know I popped in Having just put up my very 1st open house, I really hope people can sign the book, makes the game and housing feel very much more like a community

Lady_Lindel wrote: »

I just installed EHT today. I actually like the guest book. If I visit someone else's house it just feels like good manners to let them know I popped in Having just put up my very 1st open house, I really hope people can sign the book, makes the game and housing feel very much more like a community

If this was more discrete and ZOS had built it directly into the game, I would be all for it. However, the following is what actually happens: A guild organises a house tour. The guild leader finds houses, then everyone ports to them. I asked around. Most people in our group didn't even know what EHT was. In other words, only a fraction had it installed and only that fraction would see the guest journal. The developers of EHT seem to be making the feature as obnoxious as possible in an effort to force everyone of that fraction to sign the journal. This includes forced bundling of the community addon with the main EHT addon. Please understand that this will put some people off EHT as a whole, like me.

Furthermore ESO does not support features such as Tamriel Trade Centre and the guest journal within the confines of Lua (the programming language that addons are written in). This is a deliberate policy on ZOS' part to curb exploits. In order for the guest journal to work, the developers had to fall back on something very clunky: Reading the addon save files ESO writes from time to time and uploading that information to some Internet server using an external program: The .exe file.

Please understand that .exe files pose a security risk. They are not Microsoft store applications, which are somewhat secure. A .exe is an "old style" program and Windows allows it to do anything and everything that your logged in Windows account allows. If you logon to your machine as administrator, it may have access to everything on your machine. If you don't, it may still have access to sensitive information you saved under the logged in user. Stuff that has nothing to do with ESO.

The same is, of course, true for Steam, for ESO itself or for other programs you choose to trust and install on your PC, such as Discord. Whether you have an issue installing those programs, including the EHT .exe program, depends on your threat model. My own threat model, for better or for worse, is: If the program is widely used and was created by a (sizeable) business, then I am likely to trust it. I am banking on the fact that the business has a reputation to uphold and that, because the business is large enough, any shenanigans might make the news, which might damage that business and cause them financial losses. I am banking on the fact that they won't abuse my trust out of their own self-interest.

These criteria do not apply to EHT. EHT is an extremely niche product when you take the whole world as the context. A security issue with it would not make a newspaper. It is developed by enthusiasts for little or no monetary compensation. That makes the stakes a lot lower. Yes, you could very well argue that, if their goal was to exploit ESO users' machines, they would be wasting their time on a really small attack surface. It also seems obvious that this addon is ambitious and was created, despite the disagreements I have on the developer's choices, with a lot of love and care. I do not doubt that. It is not without it's own stakes and I think it is likely the .exe is no problem at all. However I am all too conscious that this is a different threat model than my usual one. Therefore I will basically not run .exe files from addon developers on my PC.

Finally, as has been pointed out by several contributors to this thread, you are not forced to run the .exe (you are merely coaxed into it). I just want to point out what that means. If I sign the guest journal of your house in game, without me running the .exe, then you won't see that. It defeats the purpose of doing it. This whole bundling thing they're doing right now could be accidental - it would seem so after 2 years - or it could be designed to draw in more users into signing the guest journal and running the .exe, because it's a feature that, for all the reasons mentioned, doesn't really work reliably.

fred4 wrote: »

tim99 wrote: »

fred4, if you ask for a change at an addon, you should not describe that addon in the same sentence with the words "usless", "garbage", "nonsense" etc.
It's rude and offensive in any language i know. It's also kinda funny and weird at the same time, that this has to be explained to someone. lol

I am sorry, when I see detestable practices, I will call them out and I wanted it to be crystal clear how aggravating it is to have all the good work they put into EHT undermined by something like this. This is a deal breaker for me, not a "nice to have" request. When an addon wants to mess with my screen resolution, when they include an annoying nag feature that will go off every time you revisit a house, when they nag me to install a .exe, all sorts of red flags go off. I am aware I'm blowing off steam and nothing is likely to change. If I asked nicely, would the chances for them changing it be any better? I doubt it. Would it be clear to them how serious their misteps are, if only in the mind of a single user? I doubt that too. In the meantime I have at least pointed out the implications of installing a .exe to one potentially oblivious user in this forum.

Speaking as someone who works directly with the creator, yes, if you asked nicely they would take it seriously. Being rude is just cruel to both the creator and those who work with him to help solve problems people have. I wasn't going to address your style of communication as I figured you were just frustrated. But since you've explained it, I must say I've found honey is better than vinegar to start, usually. This isn't a company that ignores people endlessly, this is an individual (two, now) who volunteers their time to give us things FOR FREE to make our experiences better. They are generously not only coding this for us, but paying for certain aspects and refuse to take money for it. They do this for us. They aren't predators, quite the opposite. Just so you know.

Kindness goes a long way. Also, Cardi is LITERALLY the nicest person I've ever met in my life. 1000% true. Just keep that in mind, please.

StabbityDoom wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

tim99 wrote: »

fred4, if you ask for a change at an addon, you should not describe that addon in the same sentence with the words "usless", "garbage", "nonsense" etc.
It's rude and offensive in any language i know. It's also kinda funny and weird at the same time, that this has to be explained to someone. lol

I am sorry, when I see detestable practices, I will call them out and I wanted it to be crystal clear how aggravating it is to have all the good work they put into EHT undermined by something like this. This is a deal breaker for me, not a "nice to have" request. When an addon wants to mess with my screen resolution, when they include an annoying nag feature that will go off every time you revisit a house, when they nag me to install a .exe, all sorts of red flags go off. I am aware I'm blowing off steam and nothing is likely to change. If I asked nicely, would the chances for them changing it be any better? I doubt it. Would it be clear to them how serious their misteps are, if only in the mind of a single user? I doubt that too. In the meantime I have at least pointed out the implications of installing a .exe to one potentially oblivious user in this forum.

Speaking as someone who works directly with the creator, yes, if you asked nicely they would take it seriously. Being rude is just cruel to both the creator and those who work with him to help solve problems people have. I wasn't going to address your style of communication as I figured you were just frustrated. But since you've explained it, I must say I've found honey is better than vinegar to start, usually. This isn't a company that ignores people endlessly, this is an individual (two, now) who volunteers their time to give us things FOR FREE to make our experiences better. They are generously not only coding this for us, but paying for certain aspects and refuse to take money for it. They do this for us. They aren't predators, quite the opposite. Just so you know.

Kindness goes a long way. Also, Cardi is LITERALLY the nicest person I've ever met in my life. 1000% true. Just keep that in mind, please.

Yes, I am looking a gift horse in the mouth. The frustration comes from using EHT for a long time and becoming dependent on it, then finding it bundled with something you did not want, which is causing in-game issues as well as privacy and security concerns. I think it would be much better to have the use of the .exe as a once-off opt-in screen that explains the risks, rather than having that journal scroll follow you in game, nagging you. On the one hand I admire the lengths to which the developers went to provide solutions for a feature that, apparently, many people wanted. On the other hand they implemented nagware and they bundled it. Even if they had the best of intentions, that's poor judgement. The addon behaves the same as many a questionable software you shouldn't download from the Internet - or you wish you hadn't.

StabbityDoom wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

StabbityDoom wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

tim99 wrote: »

fred4, if you ask for a change at an addon, you should not describe that addon in the same sentence with the words "usless", "garbage", "nonsense" etc.
It's rude and offensive in any language i know. It's also kinda funny and weird at the same time, that this has to be explained to someone. lol

I am sorry, when I see detestable practices, I will call them out and I wanted it to be crystal clear how aggravating it is to have all the good work they put into EHT undermined by something like this. This is a deal breaker for me, not a "nice to have" request. When an addon wants to mess with my screen resolution, when they include an annoying nag feature that will go off every time you revisit a house, when they nag me to install a .exe, all sorts of red flags go off. I am aware I'm blowing off steam and nothing is likely to change. If I asked nicely, would the chances for them changing it be any better? I doubt it. Would it be clear to them how serious their misteps are, if only in the mind of a single user? I doubt that too. In the meantime I have at least pointed out the implications of installing a .exe to one potentially oblivious user in this forum.

Speaking as someone who works directly with the creator, yes, if you asked nicely they would take it seriously. Being rude is just cruel to both the creator and those who work with him to help solve problems people have. I wasn't going to address your style of communication as I figured you were just frustrated. But since you've explained it, I must say I've found honey is better than vinegar to start, usually. This isn't a company that ignores people endlessly, this is an individual (two, now) who volunteers their time to give us things FOR FREE to make our experiences better. They are generously not only coding this for us, but paying for certain aspects and refuse to take money for it. They do this for us. They aren't predators, quite the opposite. Just so you know.

Kindness goes a long way. Also, Cardi is LITERALLY the nicest person I've ever met in my life. 1000% true. Just keep that in mind, please.

Yes, I am looking a gift horse in the mouth. The frustration comes from using EHT for a long time and becoming dependent on it, then finding it bundled with something you did not want, which is causing in-game issues as well as privacy and security concerns. I think it would be much better to have the use of the .exe as a once-off opt-in screen that explains the risks, rather than having that journal scroll follow you in game, nagging you. On the one hand I admire the lengths to which the developers went to provide solutions for a feature that, apparently, many people wanted. On the other hand they implemented nagware and they bundled it. Even if they had the best of intentions, that's poor judgement. The addon behaves the same as many a questionable software you shouldn't download from the Internet - or you wish you hadn't.

For whatever it’s worth, I agree with you about the sign in sheets. He should consider making them turn-off-able totally. I will certainly pass that along, along with your other concerns - who knows, maybe they will both unbundle. I understand frustration and figured that’s all your communication style was about. Bugs can be annoying. However, I’d love to know whose house it was that got messed up. I’d like to see if they put intentional fog in there (there’s blurry they can do, too).

Thank you, that would be great!

The house in question is Coldharbour Surreal Estate by @Badladz3 on PC EU. I described the effect as fog, but it may be an attempt at simulating water, when you look at the house in context.

The version that has the issue is the current one, 1731, specifically the Essential Effects feature of that version (which it only seems possible to turn off by hiding the UI). I also discovered you have to activate Housing Hub and Housing Community in order to activate Housting Tools, e.g. all 3 addons. The problem happens when all 3 are enabled. Without effects (old addon version) the house looks like this:



With Housing Hub / Community, e.g. effects enabled, it looks like this (latest addon version):

Hey, is there a way to disable the guest journal, or just disable it during combat? I love this add-on but right now I am forced to disable it on my all of my dps because the journal creeps between me and the Dummy.