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Thank you for ruining my gear
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RealJobasha✭✭✭Proc sets were already on the way out with the last patch when crit got nerfed and it was more effective to run 1pc slimecraw and 1pc zaan. This is just the final nail in the coffin. And that's fine, procs suck anyway, they're an unreliable source of damage and there won't be any more dummies that care more about proccing zaan than surviving and they get hit with a boss cleave and ruin a no death run0 -
AuraStorm43✭✭✭✭✭Thanks to another fundamental misunderstanding of the game you have designed and maintained for seven years, my Skoria set, already underwhelming outside of battlegrounds, does 5k instead of 9k. I forgot to check my Zaan damage prior to the patch, but rest assured, it's ruined now, too. I won't take the time to list the many, many other sets that are useless now.
Pro tip: magicka players don't stack spell damage nearly as much as stamina players stack weapon damage. This is not how your game works.
Another patch, another reason to stack nothing but crit sets. Less build variety, less fun.
Patch day should be something to look forward to. Patch day shouldn't make me want to log off after five minutes.
Play with a healer in spc your procs will do more damage
The goal was to force players to make choices or actually group with people with damage buffs to get the same damage, i dunno why your using skoria in 2021 anyways whenever i get hit with a skoria proc it barely tickles
0 -
Stevie6✭✭✭✭Kiralyn2000 wrote: »Well, is it over? The devs did the player base a great service. PVE is dead for average Joe. .
How does something that seems like it only effects Meta/BiS/min-max-my-DPS/etc players, kill things for "average Joe"?
edit: for that matter, what do you mean when you say "PvE"? Just hardmode leaderboards, or the other 98% of the PvE in the game
...does Average Joe even have meta monster sets? Is he even doing vet hardmodes and other things that need that extra few K of DPS? What do you think "Average Joe" is? (heck, what do I think Average Joe is?
I don't even have any monster sets, and I've been playing since 2016. But, then, I don't run dungeons.)
Heh, you really jumped the gun lol. Average Joe, that also includes me and a large portion of the player base, are players who are not meta but chase meta and never get there. My average dps is between 8k and 12k...that’s not meta. I do have three crafted sets and some overland. Does it look like vet hm is in the realm of possibility?
Maybe I should have added...average Joe solo player...pve is basically not even on the back burner and left in the cold. Meta, trials, and HM whatever is for the top players...not average Joe solo player.lol.
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Chaquinho89✭✭✭ZOS devs either don't know or don't want to separate PVP from PVE gear-wise which results in always disfavoring PVE players.
It's a shame, but then again gives us some reason to not bother farming gear as often since it's almost guaranteed to be nerfed in a patch or two from now.PC / NA.
"Each event is preceded by Prophecy. but without the Hero, there is no Event." -- Zurin Arctus, the Underking.6 -
jrgray93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭AuraStorm43 wrote: »Thanks to another fundamental misunderstanding of the game you have designed and maintained for seven years, my Skoria set, already underwhelming outside of battlegrounds, does 5k instead of 9k. I forgot to check my Zaan damage prior to the patch, but rest assured, it's ruined now, too. I won't take the time to list the many, many other sets that are useless now.
Pro tip: magicka players don't stack spell damage nearly as much as stamina players stack weapon damage. This is not how your game works.
Another patch, another reason to stack nothing but crit sets. Less build variety, less fun.
Patch day should be something to look forward to. Patch day shouldn't make me want to log off after five minutes.
Play with a healer in spc your procs will do more damage
The goal was to force players to make choices or actually group with people with damage buffs to get the same damage, i dunno why your using skoria in 2021 anyways whenever i get hit with a skoria proc it barely tickles
More, yes. Still considerably less than stamina counterparts.EP: Slania Isara : Harambe Was an Inside Job3 -
master_vanargand✭✭✭✭✭
✭Thanks to another fundamental misunderstanding of the game you have designed and maintained for seven years, my Skoria set, already underwhelming outside of battlegrounds, does 5k instead of 9k. I forgot to check my Zaan damage prior to the patch, but rest assured, it's ruined now, too. I won't take the time to list the many, many other sets that are useless now.
Pro tip: magicka players don't stack spell damage nearly as much as stamina players stack weapon damage. This is not how your game works.
Another patch, another reason to stack nothing but crit sets. Less build variety, less fun.
Patch day should be something to look forward to. Patch day shouldn't make me want to log off after five minutes.
If you want to increase the damage, discard the defense.
That is game balance.0 -
AuraStorm43✭✭✭✭✭AuraStorm43 wrote: »Thanks to another fundamental misunderstanding of the game you have designed and maintained for seven years, my Skoria set, already underwhelming outside of battlegrounds, does 5k instead of 9k. I forgot to check my Zaan damage prior to the patch, but rest assured, it's ruined now, too. I won't take the time to list the many, many other sets that are useless now.
Pro tip: magicka players don't stack spell damage nearly as much as stamina players stack weapon damage. This is not how your game works.
Another patch, another reason to stack nothing but crit sets. Less build variety, less fun.
Patch day should be something to look forward to. Patch day shouldn't make me want to log off after five minutes.
Play with a healer in spc your procs will do more damage
The goal was to force players to make choices or actually group with people with damage buffs to get the same damage, i dunno why your using skoria in 2021 anyways whenever i get hit with a skoria proc it barely tickles
More, yes. Still considerably less than stamina counterparts.
Yeah and thats a fair critique but even stam toons were using zaan, the damage on it was so high tanky werewolves were using it, now you have to have a more specialized build
Personally i think the spell damage slottable could use a hefty buff, or add some spell damage to the light armor passives to help but something needed to change, these high damage heavy armor burst builds have been an issue in pvp for years1 -
JanTanhide✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes, another giant nerf hammer to the game. [snip]
I rarely use a two piece monster setup on my DPS since I need all the crit and crit chance I can get. Mix and match one piece from various sets now. Heck I'm looking at just making a head and shoulder piece from a crafted set that will give more than monster sets now.
[Edited for Bashing]Edited by Psiion on June 2, 2021 9:26PM7 -
Starlight_Whisper✭✭✭✭✭
✭AuraStorm43 wrote: »AuraStorm43 wrote: »Thanks to another fundamental misunderstanding of the game you have designed and maintained for seven years, my Skoria set, already underwhelming outside of battlegrounds, does 5k instead of 9k. I forgot to check my Zaan damage prior to the patch, but rest assured, it's ruined now, too. I won't take the time to list the many, many other sets that are useless now.
Pro tip: magicka players don't stack spell damage nearly as much as stamina players stack weapon damage. This is not how your game works.
Another patch, another reason to stack nothing but crit sets. Less build variety, less fun.
Patch day should be something to look forward to. Patch day shouldn't make me want to log off after five minutes.
Play with a healer in spc your procs will do more damage
The goal was to force players to make choices or actually group with people with damage buffs to get the same damage, i dunno why your using skoria in 2021 anyways whenever i get hit with a skoria proc it barely tickles
More, yes. Still considerably less than stamina counterparts.
Yeah and thats a fair critique but even stam toons were using zaan, the damage on it was so high tanky werewolves were using it, now you have to have a more specialized build
Personally i think the spell damage slottable could use a hefty buff, or add some spell damage to the light armor passives to help but something needed to change, these high damage heavy armor burst builds have been an issue in pvp for years
Yeah a pvp issue that hurt PvE more9 -
JanTanhide✭✭✭✭✭
✭Kiralyn2000 wrote: »Well, is it over? The devs did the player base a great service. PVE is dead for average Joe. .
How does something that seems like it only effects Meta/BiS/min-max-my-DPS/etc players, kill things for "average Joe"?
edit: for that matter, what do you mean when you say "PvE"? Just hardmode leaderboards, or the other 98% of the PvE in the game
...does Average Joe even have meta monster sets? Is he even doing vet hardmodes and other things that need that extra few K of DPS? What do you think "Average Joe" is? (heck, what do I think Average Joe is? I don't even have any monster sets, and I've been playing since 2016. But, then, I don't run dungeons.)
You are missing a massive amount of fun by not running dungeons. Trials too for that matter.
Start with normal dungeons and move on to Vet. Do the easier ones first (they are listed in order of difficulty according to ZOS in the Group Finder). You may just find you like running dungeons.
As others have posted you can also buy head or shoulder pieces of monster sets from the Golden Vendor in Cyrodil starting around 7 P.M. EST on Friday till I think midnight on Sunday? Not sure when it disappears. It's easy to check what is up for sale. Port in to any faction and look for that golden glowing Khajit. She is always in one of the port in zones so you never have to leave the safety of the faction.1 -
Viewsfrom6ix✭✭✭✭✭I think as a community we can all agree the balancing PvE and PvP is proven to be too difficult and along with balancing mag and stam builds.
I've made this comment a while ago on a PTS thread regarding Proc sets. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7226378#Comment_7226378.
I hope if we complain enough, ZOS will do something about it.
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Stevie6✭✭✭✭Come and get your wet Teddy Bear! There is a dumpster fire in the ZOS NA/PC Server. Wet Teddy Bears! 😁. I need a drink.
The pve smoke is strong ..
I remember when we had damage and shields a long time ago...far far away...in a place before Morrowind..3 -
rotaugen454✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I heard the thread title in my head to the tune of "Thank you for being a friend" ."Get off my lawn!"4 -
AinSoph✭✭✭✭✭Ok so hear me out, in pvp we add an effect that's only in the pvp zone, we call it battle spirit and we let it govern every balancing issue to separate pve and pvp so they don't do absolutely absurd and completely unnecessary changes that favor one side or the other. ZOS can pay me royalties later because this is clearly a very unique concept never even thought about before.13 -
Feaky✭✭✭Kiralyn2000 wrote: »Well, is it over? The devs did the player base a great service. PVE is dead for average Joe. .
How does something that seems like it only effects Meta/BiS/min-max-my-DPS/etc players, kill things for "average Joe"?
edit: for that matter, what do you mean when you say "PvE"? Just hardmode leaderboards, or the other 98% of the PvE in the game
...does Average Joe even have meta monster sets? Is he even doing vet hardmodes and other things that need that extra few K of DPS? What do you think "Average Joe" is? (heck, what do I think Average Joe is? I don't even have any monster sets, and I've been playing since 2016. But, then, I don't run dungeons.)
Heh, you really jumped the gun lol. Average Joe, that also includes me and a large portion of the player base, are players who are not meta but chase meta and never get there. My average dps is between 8k and 12k...that’s not meta. I do have three crafted sets and some overland. Does it look like vet hm is in the realm of possibility?
Maybe I should have added...average Joe solo player...pve is basically not even on the back burner and left in the cold. Meta, trials, and HM whatever is for the top players...not average Joe solo player.lol.
Monster helms drop from vet dungeons not Vet HM which are accessible to players with 160 CP. Many of the most used monster helms drop from vet dungeons that easily done with a full group of novice players and soloable by most 810 CP players wearing crafted gear or better (e.g. Slimecraw, Stormfist, Selenes). Golden vendor rotates monster helms weekly for those who do not want to farm them.
This nerf impacted all proc sets not just monster helms. So the nerf impacts craftable sets like Oblivion Foe, overland sets Mad Tinkerer and Syvarras, and dungeon sets like Azureblight, Caluurion's, Icy Conjuror, Overwhelming, Ice Furnace and Winterborn to mention just a few.
All of the above mentioned sets are easily available to all players not just leaderboard players. So while you are not too worried about your 8k dps dropping to 7k, most of us are consternating over bigger losses and the lack of build variability. Expacs are supposed to add, not remove, content.15 -
Nastassiya✭✭✭We reported this early on, stacking Weapon damage and max Mag is much easier than stacking Spell damage and max Stam
sets should scale accordingly.
No Zos response as per usual, no dev comment regarding the issue. Do they not know or care?
Atleast they admit to poor communication, a shame they dont want to do anything about it.
With all the hateful speech that comes out of this forum I wouldn't come here to read any thread if I was a Bethesda dev. I'm 99% sure they only come here if a mod tells them there is a serious problem.2 -
Wolf_Eye✭✭✭✭✭
✭Kiralyn2000 wrote: »Well, is it over? The devs did the player base a great service. PVE is dead for average Joe. .
How does something that seems like it only effects Meta/BiS/min-max-my-DPS/etc players, kill things for "average Joe"?
edit: for that matter, what do you mean when you say "PvE"? Just hardmode leaderboards, or the other 98% of the PvE in the game
...does Average Joe even have meta monster sets? Is he even doing vet hardmodes and other things that need that extra few K of DPS? What do you think "Average Joe" is? (heck, what do I think Average Joe is? I don't even have any monster sets, and I've been playing since 2016. But, then, I don't run dungeons.)
DPS Meta were never even using proc sets. It was always ever Medusa and Mother's sorrow.
So yes, it is killing it for the average joe because the average joe was the only one using it to begin with.3 -
ClawOfTheTwoMoons✭✭✭✭We reported this early on, stacking Weapon damage and max Mag is much easier than stacking Spell damage and max Stam
sets should scale accordingly.
No Zos response as per usual, no dev comment regarding the issue. Do they not know or care?
Atleast they admit to poor communication, a shame they dont want to do anything about it.
I was thinking the same thing. I feel bad for mag toons, but then I remembered how cheesy some proc sets were and then I don't feel so bad. As for pve, mag dps is parsing 100k+ there's nothing wrong with pve dps. If you wanted to run damaging pros "for fun" in pve you still can.Edited by ClawOfTheTwoMoons on June 2, 2021 3:47PM1 -
Shantu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'm just sick of the way this gamed is being managed. And Companions? A complete joke. First time in 5 years I've passed on purchasing a new chapter. I have the feeling it won't be the last.7 -
AuraStorm43✭✭✭✭✭JanTanhide wrote: »Yes, another giant nerf hammer to the game. Thanks ZOS! I guess when the player base drops to a small percentage of what it is ZOS will finally listen?
Nah, they won't. ESO will go down in history as another game that was destroyed by the company that made it.
I rarely use a two piece monster setup on my DPS since I need all the crit and crit chance I can get. Mix and match one piece from various sets now. Heck I'm looking at just making a head and shoulder piece from a crafted set that will give more than monster sets now.
There’s been complaning about proc sets since Graymoor, the complaining got so bad ZOS turned all of them off for 3 months in Cyrodil
For sure but proc sets were already out the door outside of zaan in pve, and zaan’s mostly a dummy [snip]Starlight_Whisper wrote: »AuraStorm43 wrote: »AuraStorm43 wrote: »Thanks to another fundamental misunderstanding of the game you have designed and maintained for seven years, my Skoria set, already underwhelming outside of battlegrounds, does 5k instead of 9k. I forgot to check my Zaan damage prior to the patch, but rest assured, it's ruined now, too. I won't take the time to list the many, many other sets that are useless now.
Pro tip: magicka players don't stack spell damage nearly as much as stamina players stack weapon damage. This is not how your game works.
Another patch, another reason to stack nothing but crit sets. Less build variety, less fun.
Patch day should be something to look forward to. Patch day shouldn't make me want to log off after five minutes.
Play with a healer in spc your procs will do more damage
The goal was to force players to make choices or actually group with people with damage buffs to get the same damage, i dunno why your using skoria in 2021 anyways whenever i get hit with a skoria proc it barely tickles
More, yes. Still considerably less than stamina counterparts.
Yeah and thats a fair critique but even stam toons were using zaan, the damage on it was so high tanky werewolves were using it, now you have to have a more specialized build
Personally i think the spell damage slottable could use a hefty buff, or add some spell damage to the light armor passives to help but something needed to change, these high damage heavy armor burst builds have been an issue in pvp for years
Yeah a pvp issue that hurt PvE more
After the crit chance nerf everyone’s going 2 pc crit, if you wanna make proc sets more pve viable crit damage needs to go down and spell damage needs to go up
[Edited for Inappropriate Content]
Edited by Psiion on June 2, 2021 9:28PM1 -
BalticBlues✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
The "cheesy mag proc sets" still can be used in PvP - but now only by Stam toons.ClawOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »I feel bad for mag toons, but then I remembered how cheesy some proc sets were and then I don't feel so bad.
Because proc sets now require 6574 Spell OR Weapon Damage.
ZOS essentially took the Mag proc sets away from Mag toons to give them to the Stam toons.
How is this "balancing" PvP?
PvP META ALREADY WAS STAM BEFORE THE OBLIVION PATCH.
"Play Stam or Get Out Of My PVP Club in OBLIVION"
Edited by BalticBlues on June 3, 2021 6:22AM12 -
etchedpixels✭✭✭✭✭
✭You can clearly see the current problem just by looking at the PvE builds. There used to be variety now for magicka for any class in any form it's medusa, mother's sorrow and two random pieces of of monster that give crit. The most variety there seems to be is the debate between 2 pieces of monster/crit and arena weapons. Basically it's reducing the combat side of the game to minecraft where everyone wears the same standard armour.
Too many toons not enough time3 -
ClawOfTheTwoMoons✭✭✭✭BalticBlues wrote: »
The "cheesy mag proc sets" still can be used in PvP - but now only by Stam toons.ClawOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »I feel bad for mag toons, but then I remembered how cheesy some proc sets were and then I don't feel so bad.
ZOS took all proc sets from Mag toons and gave them to the Stam toons.
How this is balancing PvP -where the PvP meta ALREADY was Stam BEFORE the Oblivion patch- is beyond me.
And the pve meta revolves around all mag comps, I agree that this balancing is an incompetent way of going about things, but somethings gotta give. Stam toons are gonna have to invest to reach 6.5k wep damage, and that's just to reach the old numbers. Will gaze of Sithis alleviate the issue of running 2 offensive sets? Probably, but we've all seen this from zos, they make these changes to shoe horn people into getting the expansion then they bait and switch and nerf it.0 -
Klad✭✭✭✭Welcome traveler to the dark side of theorycrafting. You know when you have a system that 95% of the player base dosn't participate in. They just punch up Altcasthq and choose PVP or PVE respectively. But ZoS is better than most though as I only had to make minimal tweeks for my Stamblade over the last couple expansion.
[snip]
[Edited for Baiting]
Edited by Psiion on June 2, 2021 9:29PM0 -
BalticBlues✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Stam players already were kings of PvP. For 2 years now.ZoS is better than most though as I only had to make minimal tweeks for my Stamblade over the last couple expansion.
However, not by skill but by game design.
And the Oblivion patch is THE FINAL NAIL IN THE MAG COFFIN.
No mag toon is able to hold a flag anymore 1vs1 against my StamWarden since two years. And now with the Oblivion Patch my StamWarden even CAN USE all Mag proc sets which are USELESS NOW for MagPlayers. WHAT???
Edited by BalticBlues on June 2, 2021 5:42PM8 -
Ryath_Waylander✭✭✭✭✭
✭SidraWillowsky wrote: »Like, on one hand I understand the annoyance of your gear getting hard nerfed for no reason.
On the other hand, what's new? It's not like build diversity existed prior to this patch either.
This is the worst I've seen. They've killed Zaan, Skoria, Grothdarr, Illambris, Nerien'eth... among a bunch of others; those are the sets I use(d) on my mag DDs, though.SidraWillowsky wrote: »Yep, this is BS. Grothdarr does 667 damage when it procs.
Illambris does around 800.
If you want to pull top-tier DPS on a mag toon you're basically stuck with MS, Medusa, and two crit pieces or the waders. Boring as hell. We're using sets that are about as old as the game is.
You have completely killed monster sets for mag DDs, ZOS. This is terrible.
No one will be running monster sets in top tier dps anyway. It will be 1pc slimecraw and harpooner's kilt.
@jrgray93 isn't 1pc skoria pen? mag doesn't need pen anyway, which is why no one has been running skoria for ages regardless.
Yeah, that was the point I was trying to make. I predict that the waders are going to go the way of the Thrassian Stranglers soon, however.
they should buff the 2pc monster set bonuses. It should never be the case that 2 1pc bonuses are stronger than the full set imo.
Well.... that will just prompt a nerf of the one piece bonus then...0 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭BalticBlues wrote: »
Indeed. For weeks we warned that Update 30 ruins PvE builds for too many customers. And for what? To please the less than 1% of customers playing PvP? ZOS, PLEASE ADJUST PVP VIA BATTLE SPIRIT instead of RUINING THE PVE EXPERIENCE.LeonAkando wrote: »I wrote extensively on this during the PTS. You can view the analysis and subsequent discussion here.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/572775/7-0-2-proc-set-changes-the-death-of-proc-sets-in-pve/p1
Sets that use Spell Damage now require 6574 Spell Damage to reach their original values. WHAT? Not even with 2k CP my mag builds can come near this value. All my LightArmor toons only have around 3xxx Spell Damage. So all my LA mag toons lose about -50% Proc damage. So all proc sets now are dead for 90% of magicka builds. This is just another example of balancing with a sledgehammer, nerfing most PvE mag builds into OBLIVION:
I mean, it was given hint. You can clearly see Mahron Dagon swinging a gaint hammer toward the player, indicating a major nerfing strike. Not sure why eveyone is surprised.10 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭the1andonlyskwex wrote: »BalticBlues wrote: »
Indeed. For weeks we warned that Update 30 ruins PvE builds for too many customers. And for what? To please the less than 1% of customers playing PvP? ZOS, PLEASE ADJUST PVP VIA BATTLE SPIRIT instead of RUINING THE PVE EXPERIENCE.LeonAkando wrote: »I wrote extensively on this during the PTS. You can view the analysis and subsequent discussion here.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/572775/7-0-2-proc-set-changes-the-death-of-proc-sets-in-pve/p1
Sets that use Spell Damage now require 6574 Spell Damage to reach their original values. WHAT? Not even with 2k CP my mag builds can come near this value. All my LightArmor toons only have around 3xxx Spell Damage. So all my LA mag toons lose about -50% Proc damage. So all proc sets now are dead for 90% of magicka builds. This is just another example of balancing with a sledgehammer, nerfing most PvE mag builds into OBLIVION.
[snip]
Again, this narrative that PvP players wanted to nerf proc sets...
PvP players wanted to nerf Crimson, Vat 2h and destro and a handful of other sets like unleashed, syvaras etc.
PvP players wanted a fine tuning approach to some items, not a sledgehammer to how all proc sets worked.
When ZOS first announced this change there was actually someone who bragged on the first page of comments about how they had been the first to suggest scaling procs based on stats:
I also remember the idea getting quite a lot of traction when it previously came up in the forums.I just wanna point out that I was the first one to suggest the proc scaling.
Thank you!
This is absolutely a case of a small group of forum PvPers getting exactly what they asked for (even if the specific implementation isn't quite what some of them had in mind when making their request).
I were one of such people to call out for scaling proc sets, however, zos is only taking a small part of the big picture and makes it the new big picture. Scaling proc sets should have been done in accordance to how each spec in the game build their stats. It is very obvious to anyone who played the game for 3-4 months to notice that magicka builds have more magicka pools than stamina builds have stamina. Likewise stamina builds have more weapon damage than their counterpart of magicka. Therefore, scaling should have been dine differently and separately, something like 6k+ weapon damage = 4.5k spell damage. 35k magicka = 30k stamina...etc.
It is just ZOS zosing at this point.Edited by universal_wrath on June 2, 2021 5:19PM4
