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Auction House
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ub17_ESO✭✭✭No!lichmeister wrote: »100% yes.
the economy is really all over the place because the players cant at a glance figure out what a fair value is.
currently zone chats in EVERY zone are flooded with people trying to sell stuff. why? because the guild stores are simply not working well enough!
Some people really enjoy this aspect of the game. I feel smart when I buy from the cheap guild and sell to the pricy one. I wish I wasnt limited to 30 items for auction though. I really have to be choosy about what I try to sell but maybe this is for the best. Also I dont mind at all the open trading in zone chat. It reminds me of EQ and I always enjoyed that part of the game.Edited by ub17_ESO on April 25, 2014 2:15PM4 -
Dyvim✭✭✭Yes!
no - trading in a sample of 500 (or even 2k if in 4 trade guilds) is keeping the prices at least half reasonable. an AH would trivialize the best crafted gear in seconds. I for one would like oldschool asia-grinder market booths rather then any guild store ^^sydanyoneb18_ESO wrote: »
For the first time since years we have an in-guild economy (without gold) where the products of guild members are actually not just littering up bank space, but are wanted by others. there is too much gold in the game anyway, so i dont even have a clue why anyone would NEED an AH fist of all.
The lack of basic economic knowledge in this thread is staggering...if there is too much gold, odds are it is because of inefficiencies in the existing market, and I use that term loosely...and could well be simply because the game does a terrible job without an AH of getting buyers and sellers together to transact. Many people are just NOT PARTICIPATING in any kind of transactions, because the system is just not accessible or worth using to a lot of players.
The more buyers and sellers you have participating in a market, the MORE EFFICIENT the supply/demand/price curves get, PERIOD. Small markets, or a series of small markets are INHERENTLY MORE INEFFICIENT. Seriously guys, take some more econ courses or read a book or two in your down time, if you want to opine about markets and sound intelligent while doing it...
Now, putting a requirement in to be able to use the AH, like level x, or complete quest series y, is fine, I'm not sure that will stop any abuse though. But any abuse the system might have is simply part of the cost of doing business...like putting up with the gold farmers camping spawns in some dungeons and the ridiculous gold farmer spam...you put in place tools to deal with it, and do what you can to minimize it, but YOU DONT use it as an excuse to provide half arsed features to your customers.
Edited by Dyvim on April 25, 2014 2:20PMAngels are bright still, though the brightest fell... -S.5 -
Spyder51✭Yes!It seems to me that with an auction house, those that wish to stick to their ideal of guild stores can still do so, no? So why would anyone wish for someone to not have something when it costs them absolutely nothing to allow it?
If your answer is "because if there was an AH, then no one would use the guild stores," then you should further analyze what that thought means.4 -
Yes!It seems to me that with an auction house, those that wish to stick to their ideal of guild stores can still do so, no? So why would anyone wish for someone to not have something when it costs them absolutely nothing to allow it?
If your answer is "because if there was an AH, then no one would use the guild stores," then you should further analyze what that thought means.It seems to me that with an auction house, those that wish to stick to their ideal of guild stores can still do so, no? So why would anyone wish for someone to not have something when it costs them absolutely nothing to allow it?
If your answer is "because if there was an AH, then no one would use the guild stores," then you should further analyze what that thought means.
Indeed.
One could compare the current guild store system (rather then an auction house) to a broken washing machine. You purchased it due to advertisements that it will repair and launder clothes cheaply, quickly, and the new technology will help you avoid problems that those other systems have.
Instead, you receive a machine that can only hold 2 articles of clothing at a time, there's a coin-operated slot on the front, and instead of repairing and washing what you insert... it shreds them, sets them on fire, and burns down a significant portion of your house. Meanwhile, the washing machine has developed a cult following.
Fork the washing machine, i'm just going to go make some new clothes.
(Really, I just wanted to try to insert washing machines into the comparison, but if you get where I was trying to go with this, yay :P )
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Drachenfier✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes!...
This game must X because this game has X is not a compelling argument.
Anyone in the business world who constantly evaluates their competitors products and spends time keeping their own product competitive with robust feature sets that will attract and keep consumers, would fall out of their chair laughing at your statement. Of COURSE the competition is always compelling...ALWAYS...and relevant. This argument of yours is as ridiculous and unsupportable as your status quo argument, which you also abandoned. I say that without malice...it really is the way things are, though. You need to think about it and I think you will come around. Companies are continuously doing market research, competitive product comparisons, and in some cases corporate espionage, all in order to gain or maintain competitive advantages with their products or services. That is the way things work, and a product's competition is never irrelevant - to include its features. So yes, actually...saying that ESO needs a feature because it has become more or less standard in the MMO space, and is liked and expected by many players, is ONE OF THE MORE compelling arguments you could POSSIBLY have.
We have a fundamental disagreement about what products, competition, and a marketplace mean. You're on the wrong side of economics and basic business theory, my friend. Again, ESO is NOT in a vacuum, it is not some special product that its developers believe is immune to competition from other MMOs...its players are not in a vacuum, with no exposure to other games and other ideas. Think about that...
Also, you need to respond to my previous post and think about these related issues...especially #2, as no one has even come close to overriding the basic economic argument as to why large markets are better...they are.
1) Competitive products have it, and other players, like the ones here asking for one, have played with the feature and liked it. This product, ESO, is not alone or in a vacuum. AH's are pretty much standard in themepark mmos, pretty much for 11 years now, especially large AAA ones.
2) What we have now is many many small markets with the guild store system. Any economist will tell you that small markets are generally less efficient with their supply/demand/price curves than larger markets. The more sellers and buyers you bring together, the more rationale and efficient the curves will be.
3) Zeni is the one producing a product in a competitive market against other products with other features. THE BURDEN IS ON THEM to provide a feature rich product that is competitive with the features customers have grown to expect...especially QoL features...as THEY are the ones asking for OUR MONEY. The burden it NOT on the customers that want the feature that is now more or less an industry standard, and EXPECTED. The burden is on them to explain why they haven't delivered on it. They have not done it, but its probably because of tech difficulty with the megaservers.
Can end the thread and the argument on this post, doesn't get any more clear than that.3 -
Opioid✭✭✭Yes!danreckerpreub18_ESO wrote: »Personally, I rather dislike the current system. I am in one semi PVP / PVE guild, and four trade guilds, the interface for guild stores is limited (Really? No searching? Looking for what I want is time consuming. I shouldnt have to repeat the search 5 times for each item, relogging several times to make the UI work, spamming /reloadui between each listing I attempt to make, etc etc etc.
I understand wanting to get away from a global economy for the reasons depicted in the buyman / sellman turpen fiasco outlined above, i've seen it more often then most. When standing in the bank spamming 'selling stuff x, wanting to buy stuff y!' is more efficient, cheaper, and less risky then listing something in the provided guild store, something is seriously wrong.
I am not selling my turpen, i'm not buying anyone else's. I am storing it for when I, personally, want to use it. I'll perhaps yell about wanting to sell an item when I find it, but that's about it. The current system isnt a system at all. Sorry shiny 2h axe I just found, I cant find out if anyone wants you or not. Pretty Robes of purpley goodness +42? Nope, no one in my immediate vicinity cared. Happy birthday to the ground.
When looking at the LISTING COST of a purple robe that appears to be worth around 2,000 gold gives me sticker shock...? Posting it in a guild store basically ensures that you will be loosing money. If no one sees it, no one can buy it... and you have now lost a significant % of that item's cost in listing fees. When trying to SELL things COSTS you money, why bother? I'll deconstruct it and make something I actually want to use later on.
Games like everquest that had thousands of people gradually evolved player economies over time. When EQ 1 released, the only other option was Ultima online, so naturally... most everyone that wanted to MMO migrated over. It took 2-3 years for each server to evolve it's own 'trade zones' ... they were laggy, awkward, and time consuming to use. Eventually, an official 'trade zone' was eventually setup, where you could park your character in a stall, set prices, and become a vendor. It was laggy to the point where you needed to crouch, stare at the ground, and navigate by map.
The auction house was the next logical step - and it worked, and worked WELL... for a time. As goldfarmers, goldsellers, and market dominating *** began sucking up all the economy's gold via buying / relisting higher, the Auction House's dark side became painfully evident. That said, the solution is NOT to fire an armor piercing nerf cannon into it's core function. The solution is to attempt to fix the problem - scrapping a functional system is avoiding it, effectively punishing everyone for the actions of a few profiteers.
Something as simple as a new form of temporary BOE would work wonders. If any item you purchase becomes bind-on-buy for a given period of time (Say... 3-6 days) Buying and relisting would become much less common. (Items could be traded to other players, just not listed in the auction house. This trait would transfer when traded, and would be clearly marked on the item tooltip when linked)
As I mentioned in another post, zone-specific pawn shops would work as well - items posted in Auridon, as an example, would tend to be low level, and would be accessible to everyone who wants to look. Letting guilds post their own storefront would be nice as well. Guilds that wanted to stay private could do so, and those that wanted to offer their goods publicly could do so as well - the best of both worlds.
The current system is an elimination of player driven economy, not an enhancement. Something needs to change.
The problem I have with the mentioned sellman/buyman scenario is that it isn't accurate, especially when applied to a much larger market environment. Sure, someone can waste all their time buying and relisting specific items in the market for a higher price, but with an exponentially larger market that would make it significantly more work to do so. With thousands more players having access to a market, they would be able to quickly see prices and undercut high priced sellers.
Consumers can also use common sense when making their purchases. If you deem something to be too expensive, you simply don't buy it. If you really want it that badly and decide to purchase it at a higher price, then so be it. That was your choice and no one forced you into the purchase.
People trying to dominate the market will always exist, I'm sure they exist even now in guild stores as they are today. Someone with the means and desire to invest the capital in buying and relisting items at a higher price will always do exactly that. It's unavoidable. But as more and more people have access to the market, there are far more opportunities for people to undercut these sellers. The 30 day listings and up-front cost of listing fees also help in this regard. Higher list price means higher listing fee up-front, plus your item will be tied up for 30 days unless you decide to pull it down and lose your listing fee entirely.
I do like the idea of making anything purchased from a market get flagged and make it unable to be listed on the market again for a specific period of time. I believe that would also help curb the relisting concern.
As for your idea of a localized market in each of the main cities of a zone, I don't see that working. People will tend to gravitate towards whatever is the largest market and the majority of the population will end up settling on one primary market where they can get the best prices on goods. At that point, you might as well just have a single centralized market.
There's really no easy answer to this auction house dilemma. There are people with valid concerns on both side of the argument and no matter what happens (if anything) as a result of it, some people just won't be happy with it.
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Dyvim✭✭✭Yes!lichmeister wrote: »100% yes.
the economy is really all over the place because the players cant at a glance figure out what a fair value is.
currently zone chats in EVERY zone are flooded with people trying to sell stuff. why? because the guild stores are simply not working well enough!
Some people really enjoy this aspect of the game. I feel smart when I buy from the cheap guild and sell to the pricy one. I wish I wasnt limited to 30 items for auction though. I really have to be choosy about what I try to sell but maybe this is for the best. Also I dont mind at all the open trading in zone chat. It reminds me of EQ and I always enjoyed that part of the game.
You just solidified my points that small markets are inherently less efficient than large ones...and by having a series of small markets (the most members a guild can have is 500) you are baking in orders of magnitude of higher inefficiency than you would with larger auction house markets. This is EXACTLY what happens in small inefficient markets where YOU LIMIT ACCESS.
This person is exploiting (not sploitin, I am not claiming he is doing something illegal) their TERRIBLE design of the fractured markets in this system. What happens when someone doesn't HAVE ACCESS to the "cheap guild" and they have NO TOOLS to see what prices should be, or are in the "cheap guild"? They SUFFER FROM HUGE INEFFICIENCIES and price distortions...this is what HAPPENS IN SMALL MARKETS with poor information. They are INNATELY MORE INEFFICIENT. This is so obvious it pisses me off with the lack of basic economic knowledge exhibited in this thread.
And @ladyinthewater, how is this situation, where you have people exploiting small markets where consumers have NO TOOLS and NO INFORMATION to gauge pricing and supply and demand - HOW IS THIS POSSIBLY better than the robust, large set of tools an auction house like GW2 has??? It isn't. It isn't even close. If you haven't played gw2 or seen their auction house, I suggest you check it out...the market data they provide is great.
Essentially, if you want a good market, it needs to be large, and everyone needs to have access to the same information, with no BARRIERS to entry or transactions. Sorry, but if you can't grasp this, learn some more before you post in this thread. Not trying to be rude, it just isn't fair to other posters for some people to be so wrong about the basics. I believe the ONLY reason we don't have an AH in this game is because Zeni cant pull it off yet with the megaservers.Edited by Dyvim on April 25, 2014 8:14PMAngels are bright still, though the brightest fell... -S.2 -
Nadijeh✭✭✭Yes!I'm mixed on this, I think mostly due to the fact the current guild stores lack the functionality I need. I want to be able to search for specific things, not sift through 3 different shops to probably not find anything I need in the end. It takes too long, and is too inconvenient.3 -
Dyvim✭✭✭Yes!I'm mixed on this, I think mostly due to the fact the current guild stores lack the functionality I need. I want to be able to search for specific things, not sift through 3 different shops to probably not find anything I need in the end. It takes too long, and is too inconvenient.
You just summarized all anyone needs to know about the current inventory system and the current guild store system/lack of AH.
It takes too long, and is too inconvenient.
Its the whole reason other games have come up with better solutions over the last 10+ years of MMO development. Players want to spend time in game having fun...NOT feeling like they are having to waste their time on boring, repetitive tasks that could be labeled "house keeping".Edited by Dyvim on April 25, 2014 8:24PMAngels are bright still, though the brightest fell... -S.3 -
Sureshawt✭✭✭✭Yes!Give players a choice.
Those that want to trade in chat will still be able to do so.
Those that want to use guild stores will still be able to do so.
If an AH is added then those of us that want to use it can do so.
Give us choices and let the players decide. Nothing scary or game breaking about that!2 -
Ralathar44✭✭✭No!No, absolutely not.
1. Guild Stores are already flooded with stuff.
2. Good stuff is actually more rare, crafters have a place.
3. I can sell things to my guild on the cheap and the entire guild profts.
4. I have ONE 500 member trade guild, and I can find what I need.
5. Encourages community.Edited by Ralathar44 on April 25, 2014 8:44PMSome questions answer themselves:
So what is the problem with building specifically against an oil farm????
oil farm????8 -
p.hurst1b16_ESO✭✭✭Yes!The guild stores are very sluggish as far as an economy goes. There are players that manipulate prices a bit. The prices are constantly falling and only some items command any sort of premium and they do that because of the limitation of 500 patrons.
It suits power levelers and not anyone else.
An open AH would give us a nice active economy with true supply and demand in action.
<Enigmatic Name> Is poaching new guild members again ! Apply on our webby with your CV and proof of identity and we can arrange an interview with a panel of our officers.3 -
Bollerlotte✭✭✭Yes!i like mmo econmy with more or unmeasured huge possible ppl buy stuff (:
i got a 500 ppl trade guild, the member activity decreased drasticly last days, only 40-70 ppl are still on ) :1 -
LadyInTheWater✭✭✭No!@Dyvim
The fact that you can't see the damage to the economy that a global AH would cause frightens me more than the idea of the global AH itself.
There is absolutely NO point in arguing this with you, or anyone like you. Regardless of whatever we say, you'll continue to argue and ignore whatever's said to you.
I paid money, and subscribed to THIS game. Not Guild Wars 2, not World of Warcraft, and not a version of ESO more like those. I paid for THIS game. With THIS version of a guild store.
In fact, it was this structure of the guild stores that initially attracted me to the game. It is inherently an economy that will delay massive inflation for a very, very long time. If there's one thing I hate, hate, HATE in MMOs, it's people who "Play the market". A global AH allows them to do that effectively and efficiently, just like you said. I want it to be as ineffective and inefficient for those people as possible. Then, I want those people to quit the game. They are a minority, at best. Not even close to a majority. And they're no better than goldfarmers in my eyes.
You're not asking for bugs to be fixed, or textures to be corrected, or npc combat scripts to be balanced... no, you're asking for a fundamental change to a structure that's functioning as intended!
Post about something being bugged, or not working as intended, and I'll support it. But trying to change the part of the game which originally drew me to the game in the first place is extraordinarily selfish of you.
Go play Guild Wars 2, or go play a single-player Elder Scrolls game, where you can loot everything, sell everything, and kill the shopowners that you disagree with.
Leave this game alone.The moment you call someone stupid, or try to display your opinion as "fact", you lose all credibility.6 -
Viverim✭✭Yes!sevcik.miroslaveb17_ESO wrote: »Player shops instead of auction! :-)
I really want these.
Here is what I, personally, would like. Instead of a "Guild Store" allow people to post items in shops. Want to sell armor? Post it with the Armsman in Marbruk. Anyone who shops at the Armsman can look at the "NPC gear" or the "Crafted Gear" (or whatever you want to call it). So, you want to buy crafted gear of your level range? head to the level appropriate zone, find a town and see what's for sale. Right now I don't craft anything for sale because there's no real point in doing so.0 -
LadyInTheWater✭✭✭No!Wow, I've been going about this all wrong, @Dyvim .
As I was running around, doing my quests, it dawned on me;
The system that's in place is already in place. I don't have to argue for it, because it's already there. It's you who have to argue for a change. And I don't even need to defend it, really.
It's on your shoulders to come up with a good argument, not mine. And in as much as you rant and rave, it's also on your shoulders to come up with a solid argument for the developers, not the rest of the playerbase.
And, I'm pretty sure the devs don't care if you have 15 different PhD's in every aspect of business, economics, money management, contract law, or anything else. They're only going to be concerned with one thing: The overall value of their game's currency. Will a gold coin be worth as much in 6 months as it is now?
Will a global AH cause inflation in the game's economy? Will a global AH make it easier for goldfarmers to ply their trade? Will a global AH have the potential to screw anything up?
If, on the odd chance, a Dev decides to wander over and read this entire nonsensical thread, they'll meander across a couple different posts from a couple different people, simply laying out the mere potential for abuse. A few other small posts about how the current guild store system helps to mitigate inflation, and how it allows the community to maintain the currency's integrity. That'll be enough for them to turn the idea down. And they may also happen across a couple other posts, by you, basically inferring that people are idiots for pointing out the potential for abuse, which certainly won't endear them to you.
Implying that people are "clueless noobs" when all they're interested in is protecting the developer's game? Excellent move.
Going over all your posts, you've all but laid out how people can manipulate, abuse, and exploit a global auction house to the detriment of the economy, all on your own. I don't need to argue the point; you're already doing it for me.
So, in the end, it doesn't matter how much you call me stupid, or how much of a "clueless noob" you think I am. At the end of the day, you haven't managed to post a single thing showing the devs how a global auction house can be incorporated and still maintain the value of the game's currency. You're too busy trying to sound e-smart in front of the crowd. Sure, you may manage to convince a grand total of 200 players here on the forums that we need a global auction house. But until you manage to convince over 50,000, it's not even gonna matter. They'll laugh, get their coffee, and go back to work fixing bugs and addressing more important issues.The moment you call someone stupid, or try to display your opinion as "fact", you lose all credibility.8 -
Dyvim✭✭✭Yes!@LadyInTheWater
You apparently didn't read the post or my highlighting of it where the player was talking about how he was taking advantage of the small inefficient guild markets in the game, so here it is again for you...
@ub17_ESO wrote: »
Some people really enjoy this aspect of the game. I feel smart when I buy from the cheap guild and sell to the pricy one. I wish I wasnt limited to 30 items for auction though. I really have to be choosy about what I try to sell but maybe this is for the best. Also I dont mind at all the open trading in zone chat. It reminds me of EQ and I always enjoyed that part of the game.
You know what else, I don't have to argue with you, because basic economics are not up for debate. Learn them. Then we can talk. They are the basis for my argument, and it is made. You either choose not to read it or just don't understand it. People don't argue about settled science, so I have no desire to argue basics with you either. Also, you seem to be equating auction houses with rampant inflation...there is no such cause and effect. Inflation has to do with the money supply in a game...and that is not tied directly to an AH - they do NOT create gold. I'll ask you again, have you ever used the auction house in GW2 and experienced the data it provides players with??? A good auction house facilitates transactions, can act as a gold sink (which you haven't even mentioned) and provides players with information on commodities and their pricing. Nowhere does it CREATE gold or cause inflation, all on its own. Just the opposite, it is a gold sink. If anything it can put the brakes on inflation as every transaction leeches gold from the system...let me explain that for you again...the MORE transactions in the game, the MORE GOLD IS LEECHED from the game, which will help CONTROL inflation...so any system that encourages a larger market, with fewer barriers to entry, and more facilitation of transactions is ANTI-INFLATIONARY. I shouldn't have to explain that to you, but perhaps now you can figure it out. You are arguing against commerce and transactions, which is nonsensical.
You just seem horribly confused, fearful, angry...and mistaken. The rest of your argument amounts to a status quo argument for an MMO, which I already shredded when @Brennan made it. Perhaps you should review...
@Brennan wrote: »
The compelling reason for not having one is because this game doesn't have one. It is the status quo. It is the norm. The status quo, the norm for society is to wear clothes in public. If you don't want to wear pants it's up to you to make a compelling argument as to why the status quo needs to be changed. It is not up to the people wearing pants to give you a compelling argument to wear pants.
Any status quo argument in MMO land is patently ridiculous...why? Because one of the primary features of an MMO IS CHANGE. CHANGE OVER TIME. Why? Because developers seek to improve their game over time, and seek to maintain income by maintaining subscribers with new features and new content. Are you sure you have played an MMO before, because it doesnt sound like it. MMOs are not some steady state product.
Ah and here we have another inappropriate analogy. Here is a better one, since you want to talk about pants. FASHION changes continuously in order to have new styles to sell year after year to get peoples money. An oversimplification, but basically true. JUST like with MMOs, the status quo, or steady state existence, is NOT the basic nature of the MMO industry OR the fashion industry...got it?
Not wanting an MMO to change is INCREDIBLY selfish and foolish, as change over time IS the fundamental nature of an MMO. Hate to break it to you, but the current guild store implementation WILL CHANGE over time, as will much of the game. TO fail to realize that is incomprehensibly shortsighted. ALL MMO COMPANIES advise their players that GAME PLAY WILL CHANGE OVER TIME...so your rabid attachment to the game of today is just...wrong.
You think you are protecting the developers game? That is laughable and sad....any MMO at launch, particularly, is a work in progress that I can guarantee you ISNT finished...and I bet that if the developers had their way, and the time and resources to do it, they would have put an auction house in the game already. Try not to be too disappointed when it happens, IF they can pull it off with their megaserver implementation.Edited by Dyvim on April 26, 2014 5:02AMAngels are bright still, though the brightest fell... -S.3 -
Opioid✭✭✭Yes!
One thing to remember here- inflation will occur in ESO. It occurs in every MMO that has any kind of currency over the life of the game.LadyInTheWater wrote: »At the end of the day, you haven't managed to post a single thing showing the devs how a global auction house can be incorporated and still maintain the value of the game's currency.
As you gain levels, monetary gains from quest rewards and drops from mobs will naturally increase.
The longer people play a game, the more gold they accumulate.
The more gold they accumulate, the more buying power they have.
The more buying power they have, the more they are willing to spend on things they want.
The more they have and are willing to spend, the higher the prices for goods in demand in any market will climb.
Regardless of whether it's in zone chat or a trade channel, in guild stores or in a global/server/faction/zone based auction house; inflation will occur and gold will be worth less and less as the game matures.
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Dyvim✭✭✭Yes!@Opioid
I pointed that out to her. She seems to equate an AH with gold creation or monetary supply growth in the game, when it has nothing to do with in game gold creation. Nothing. I also pointed out that an AH is one of the best ANTI inflationary devices available, as every transaction is "taxed" and therefore EVERY transaction REMOVES gold from the game. In fact, people fearing inflation should want AS MANY TRANSACTIONS as possible, to remove as much gold as possible, and only a large, efficient AH, that brings together, easily, as many buyers and sellers as possible, will accomplish this...inflation does happen, but can be ameliorated with enough gold sinks to control or limit the gold supply - and one time, or one-off sinks like we have for buying inventory, ARE NOT going to cut it...there is a reason governments love sales tax...when you hit every transaction, it adds up fast...
She just doesn't understand how things work.Edited by Dyvim on April 26, 2014 5:24AMAngels are bright still, though the brightest fell... -S.2 -
Santiago✭✭Yes!Lack of an auction house is one of the many reasons players aren't going to stick around. Zenimax doesn't get it.3
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alphawolph✭✭✭Yes!LadyInTheWater wrote: »Wow
Man, I've never seen anyone hate a free market so much. Holy cow.
(Still think they will put one in, someday)5 -
Ralathar44✭✭✭No!The reason most people want an AH in ESO has nothing to do with the game's health.
They want an AH in ESO so they can find every item they want and buy it off the market. They don't want scarcity, they don't want any sort of balance, they couldn't give a flying flip about inflation and gold farmers.
They just want all their shinies RIGHT NOW.
This is unfortunately going to be the majority. This is the mainstream player and the reason it's difficult to make a player based economy is because these people don't have the patience for it because that also takes more effort.
Unfortunately for them Guild Wars 2 is actually a really really good example of the damage one massive global market does to an economy. But honestly, it's not like good gear is even scarce in ESO. I see no real reason to complain lol, there isn't even the need to replace armor when it wears out, one good set can last forever so long as you repair it.Some questions answer themselves:
So what is the problem with building specifically against an oil farm????
oil farm????4 -
Krym✭✭✭
It takes too long, and is too inconvenient.
the interface sucks, it has nothing to do with how the markets are organized. most mmos still require you visit a npc, and some have crappy interfaces on top.
I get it, you think gw2 is the pinnacle of game design, but why are you here then?3 -
mitumatuSoul ShrivenYes!The Majority of people saying No are in a guild, personally any mmo i start playing I will not join a guild until i have at least maxed 1 character, explored the content the way i wont to, Craft buy and sell in my own way but as it stands now i get to play for only a few hours per day because of other commitments and honestly i am losing the faith as the materials i am collecting the armor/weapons i create are binned for more bag/ bank space eternally a revolving Bank Bin. there's no reason for me to accumulate anything as the auction system has cut off a huge chunk of the way i like to enjoy mmos. To take such a drastic step in this direction with the auction system has cut off a large % of players from the game itself. Maybe i just want to Craft make money and do a bit of pvp in my paid gaming time?. Guilds are not the be all and end all to an mmo experience and personally Zenimax should have said (Play the way you want as long as it my way). Zenimax you are stopping me from playing the way i want to which will end in you not getting my money anymore. everyone has there opinion and this was mine, if your in a guild and everything is fine that's great, i am happy for you, I am not in a guild so i am screwed basically.
I would have an auction house that also has guild tabs for guild members who get 25% discount as a buyer from guild members but the seller still gets full asking price, non guild pays 100% asking price the incentive is the discount which could be increased by the seller depending on how much he loves his guild mates lol.
Peace
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mitumatuSoul ShrivenYes!After thinking about the above idea about discount it would have to be worked in some way so that guilds cant generate money on the 25% so i.e seller does not get 100% but gets a small % chance of returning the materials that went into making the item. I really have confused myself lol0
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Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes!
It takes too long, and is too inconvenient.
the interface sucks, it has nothing to do with how the markets are organized. most mmos still require you visit a npc, and some have crappy interfaces on top.
I get it, you think gw2 is the pinnacle of game design, but why are you here then?
It has everything to do with how the markets are organized. The horrid interface just complicates it further because it makes it take even longer to find out the Guild Stores don't have what you are looking for.
The Guild Stores are simply too small to meet demand. It's that simple. They are so pathetic they can't even supply me - a single person - with what I'm wanting to buy. Let alone others. So we need something more, else the economy on this game is going to continue to suck and more people are going to unsubscribe because of it.
So if you value this game and its success, I would ask you to support the implementation of a public market so players can enjoy an economy that works. Rather than having to waste their time scanning useless Guild Stores or annoying themselves or others with endless trade spam.Edited by Jeremy on April 26, 2014 3:04PM2 -
Yes!Sorry for promoting my own thread, but with commotion between the arguments between guild stores and an AH would the the following be a viable compromise?
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/86831/how-about-a-shop-or-stall-mod-instead-of-an-ah#latest
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Ikumarbeh✭✭No!No.
But only if Guild Store is working and it's well made. Currently - it's not well thought of (the idea needs betterment) nor is it working as it is.
So i DO want and AH. Because i DON'T have a Guild Store. Give me a Guild Store, and then I will be against AH in this game.Edited by Ikumarbeh on April 26, 2014 5:24PM2 -
Krym✭✭✭
It takes too long, and is too inconvenient.
the interface sucks, it has nothing to do with how the markets are organized. most mmos still require you visit a npc, and some have crappy interfaces on top.
I get it, you think gw2 is the pinnacle of game design, but why are you here then?
It has everything to do with how the markets are organized. The horrid interface just complicates it further because it makes it take even longer to find out the Guild Stores don't have what you are looking for.
The Guild Stores are simply too small to meet demand. It's that simple. They are so pathetic they can't even supply me - a single person - with what I'm wanting to buy. Let alone others. So we need something more, else the economy on this game is going to continue to suck and more people are going to unsubscribe because of it.
So if you value this game and its success, I would ask you to support the implementation of a public market so players can enjoy an economy that works. Rather than having to waste their time scanning useless Guild Stores or annoying themselves or others with endless trade spam.
one are QOL improvements, the other are basic game systems. the "enjoyment" of a global ah means nothing if the interface is utter shite.
and what are you looking for people are not supplying? do you think there are guilds out there were magically the demand is lower than the supply but you just can't find them? certain items will always be expensive and sought after, more sellers means more buyers.
as for guild stores themselves, this is a matter of being in the right guild(s), and when zos finally makes keep-stores available to the public you're not even limited by the number of guilds anymore. zos gives the responsibility how when and where to find stuff to the players - is it more involved than simply standing in the capitol all day letting an addon parse the AH? definitely. but no solution is perfect.
don't get me wrong, I'm not saying guild stores are better or worse than a global market, both have their pros & cons. ZOS decided to go with gstores for a reason.
oh, and please keep the platitudes low, it doesn't really add anything.Guilds are not the be all and end all to an mmo experience and personally Zenimax should have said (Play the way you want as long as it my way). Zenimax you are stopping me from playing the way i want to which will end in you not getting my money anymore. everyone has there opinion and this was mine, if your in a guild and everything is fine that's great, i am happy for you, I am not in a guild so i am screwed basically.
it is in this mmo. and you make it out that being in a tradeguild is a huge burden and responsibility (just whisper "inv pls" for one of the many guild ads, join without hassle and disable the chat. bam, you can sell stuff)
and even if you really don't want to be in one for whatever reason (even with 5 guild slots) wait till stores are enabled in cyrodiil and browse to you hearts content.
btw, thinking "play the way you want" and there won't be limitations is a fallacy. I want to play as a purple amoeba with a top hat and wings while riding on a bratwurst, but I don't expect eso to offer me that.
Edited by Krym on April 26, 2014 6:06PM1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes!
It takes too long, and is too inconvenient.
the interface sucks, it has nothing to do with how the markets are organized. most mmos still require you visit a npc, and some have crappy interfaces on top.
I get it, you think gw2 is the pinnacle of game design, but why are you here then?
It has everything to do with how the markets are organized. The horrid interface just complicates it further because it makes it take even longer to find out the Guild Stores don't have what you are looking for.
The Guild Stores are simply too small to meet demand. It's that simple. They are so pathetic they can't even supply me - a single person - with what I'm wanting to buy. Let alone others. So we need something more, else the economy on this game is going to continue to suck and more people are going to unsubscribe because of it.
So if you value this game and its success, I would ask you to support the implementation of a public market so players can enjoy an economy that works. Rather than having to waste their time scanning useless Guild Stores or annoying themselves or others with endless trade spam.
more sellers means more buyers.
oh, and please keep the platitudes low, it doesn't really add anything.
I'll respond to these two parts of your post.
First, comments like this "oh, and please keep the platitudes low, it doesn't really add anything" are actually what doesn't really add anything to the conversation. And in the interest of being nice, that's all I'll say about that. ^^
Second: more sellers could mean more buyers. But more people in the economy period means more sellers and buyers. That is the point.
The reason these guild stores suck is because they don't have enough people in them. They are too small. It has nothing to do with rarer items being more sought after nor does it have to do with the crappy interface.
The structure itself is flawed, because it doesn't allow a wide enough participation in the economy to be effective. And that is not a platitude. It's just the simple truth.
Edited by Jeremy on April 26, 2014 8:27PM3