Fake Queue, how do you deal with it ?

spartaxoxo · May 2021

I personally go in and try to solo the dungeons once on normal. Both so I can hear the story, and so I am deeply familar with mechanics. Sometimes the game don't let physically don't let me, in which case I get others and just try to tackle the dungeon from multiple angles.

Once I am that knowledgeable of the mechs, I find that it doesn't really matter anymore what anyone else does so long as it's not a mech that forces teamwork.

Kaurie · May 2021

DonHardstyle wrote: »

. Up for them to continue with me or not, Wich is fair imo.

You think having DPS wait in long queues only to enter a dungeon and be given the option of having a fake tank, or kick and wait for 2nd DPS queue for a tank to join is "fair"?

Imo fake tanking is as much a problem in normal as vet. Sure tanks aren't "required", but not having a tank almost always results in lower group DPS, me tanking when I didn't sign up to tank, and a much less fun run.

madrab73 · May 2021

As a tank I see plenty of fake heals or DDs. A good DD as heals isn't so bad but if they run past all the ads without performing role it is. Yesterday I ran with a DD who was last through every door and didn't kill anything (not low level). The day before had one running past all ads. Voted to kick but declined so did same myself gained agro until next boss and held block.

zaria · May 2021

DonHardstyle wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

Fake queue made me think of the phantom queue you sometimes get put into. Say you queue for an pledge dungeon on an tank and the queue takes forever.
Solution here is to quit the queue and re-queue, this tend to help. This also works for DD even if you have to wait first but if queue take to long leave and try again, weirdly you do not loose your place in the queue.

So leaving and re-queuing is how you deal with fake queue.

No it's not that what i mean, i mean dd's queueing as tanks or healers.

I knew, I just wanted to rant about the phantom queue, its worst for dd's as they have to wait anyway.

zaria · May 2021

Amottica wrote: »

I run with guild members. I have always found a guild run is significantly better than running with a random group formed by the game. Even if we do not have a full group we are still in control the pug will run the dungeon as we want to run it or sayonara. Ofc, we are polite if we have to convey any message to the pug.

Same, tend to run random normals with anything goes in guild. Best practice here is to group as your role and use fakes if needed. Rarely an problem, yes during the double xp many tended to run randoms on lots of alts and not all was very strong or developed so some dlc got a bit hairy as in we wiped some times.

DirkRavenclaw · May 2021

Simple. I only Queue with Guildies where we talk beforehand if we only run as DDs or as a proper Group. I dont use the Dungeon Finder anymore and know from many others that do the same.

DonHardstyle · May 2021

Kaurie wrote: »

DonHardstyle wrote: »

. Up for them to continue with me or not, Wich is fair imo.

You think having DPS wait in long queues only to enter a dungeon and be given the option of having a fake tank, or kick and wait for 2nd DPS queue for a tank to join is "fair"?

Imo fake tanking is as much a problem in normal as vet. Sure tanks aren't "required", but not having a tank almost always results in lower group DPS, me tanking when I didn't sign up to tank, and a much less fun run.

Atleast i let them know I'm fake role-ing. Faking is indeed an problem, and yes i think it is anoying to ! Still, i do it only on normal. For me it's more anoying to wait 30 minutes an proper que, find yourself in an group with 2 fake roles, and still end up carrying the group. I know of myself that i can solo most dungeons, also when i fake role, i make sure that i atleasr do good as dd, Wich results in me getting the agro anyway. Since I just do more DPS. I never got an complain either tho, i don't rush, i wait patiently for the others to come by and if they do an quest, most of the times in the only one that's waits for them.

spartaxoxo · May 2021

DonHardstyle wrote: »

Kaurie wrote: »

DonHardstyle wrote: »

. Up for them to continue with me or not, Wich is fair imo.

You think having DPS wait in long queues only to enter a dungeon and be given the option of having a fake tank, or kick and wait for 2nd DPS queue for a tank to join is "fair"?

Imo fake tanking is as much a problem in normal as vet. Sure tanks aren't "required", but not having a tank almost always results in lower group DPS, me tanking when I didn't sign up to tank, and a much less fun run.

Atleast i let them know I'm fake role-ing. Faking is indeed an problem, and yes i think it is anoying to ! Still, i do it only on normal. For me it's more anoying to wait 30 minutes an proper que, find yourself in an group with 2 fake roles, and still end up carrying the group. I know of myself that i can solo most dungeons, also when i fake role, i make sure that i atleasr do good as dd, Wich results in me getting the agro anyway. Since I just do more DPS. I never got an complain either tho, i don't rush, i wait patiently for the others to come by and if they do an quest, most of the times in the only one that's waits for them.

Without a taunt, you most definitely ruin the DDs time that waited 30 minutes in a queue just to end up with aggro. That's so incredibly unfair. I've honestly left dungeons just for that reason. It wasn't about not being able to get it done. It was about having been made to wait for a long time just to end up with aggro after I paid my dues to avoid it. It's just so so so unfun and completely ruins the game for me.

The dds that slot a taunt I have no problem with because they're dealing with the mechs. If I wanted to deal with them I could fake tank it myself.

preevious · May 2021

In the end, no matter how you may rationalize it, fake tanking/fake healing is wrong.

It's very self-serving.

DD wait for ages to get inside a dungeon.
Kicking the fake-tanking idiot and having to wait for ages for a replacement is NOT an option (ironically, the kicked idiot would just instaqueue again, and pollute another group with his mere presence), and we basically make do with him, despite his shortcomings.. the experience is considerably worse, still.
(because yes .. fake tanks play badly, have *** DPS and are more of a liability than an asset).

By fake-tanking, you basically take the group hostage. Also, when fake-tanking, you should be ashamed.

Now, I know that it's also self-serving to enter a veteran dungeon with very low DPS as a DD (like, 5k), and expecting a carry. But it's less annoying, since in case of kick, we can get a replacement in less than a minute.

DD are replaced fast .. tanks, not so much.

PSA : Be a decent person, don't fake-tank.

DonHardstyle · May 2021

I can't agree more with you 2, if i fake queue i do it as healer btw !

I often find myself with an fake tank to indeed. However I can take the boss and ads myself without much problems. I do find it anoying to end up with the agro at times. If i fake role myself as healer then, i think i can't say anything about it and accept it.

Varana · May 2021

DonHardstyle wrote: »

i make sure that i atleasr do good as dd, Wich results in me getting the agro anyway. Since I just do more DPS.

I'm with you on the general idea, but please slot a taunt.
Aggro in ESO has absolutely zero to do with how much DPS you do. That you end up with aggro somewhat regularly has to do with you doing something regularly - how much damage that Something does, doesn't matter at all. That Something can also be healing, which is why the healers draw so much aggro.
So please slot a taunt and use it. If you're able to solo the dungeon, I'm pretty sure you can safely replace one skill with Inner Fire.

preevious · May 2021

DonHardstyle wrote: »

i make sure that i atleasr do good as dd, Wich results in me getting the agro anyway. Since I just do more DPS.

That's a really problematic way of thinking.
Except if you are confident that you are THE VERY BEST DD IN EXISTANCE, you'll still annoy the hell out of every DD that do more damage than you.

Sounds a bit pretentious, when it's put that way.

I don't want to assume you deal low damage, but there are certainly loads of players better than you are. They shouldn't be punished for it.

DonHardstyle · May 2021

Hoo! Brake, i don't say I'm the best dd ever 🤣dont change words buddy !

@Varana

I'm talking when there is an fake tank, and fake healer(me) as there is no healer who is the biggest threat for the npc, the highest dd is the biggest threat. And yes I agree if you fake tank you should slot inner rage, and i actualy also think when you fake heal you slot an group heal, in Wich i fail in to.

Varana · May 2021

Ah, I thought you were talking about when you queued as a tank.

(Technically, it's not the highest DD that is the biggest threat. Every 7 seconds or so, a boss' aggro cycle runs out and he looks for a target. Whoever hits the boss next, gets aggro, regardless of how much damage they do overall. Healing a group member counts as hitting the boss.)

DonHardstyle · May 2021

Oh is that so? Didn't know that!

preevious · May 2021

DonHardstyle wrote: »

Hoo! Brake, i don't say I'm the best dd ever 🤣dont change words buddy !

I never said you did.

I just say that if you say

"i make sure that i atleasr do good as dd, Wich results in me getting the agro anyway. Since I just do more DPS."

You imply that you do more damage than both DDs. This cannot be undestood any other way.

What if it's not the case, then?

Zer0_CooL · May 2021

Stop asking ask how, just deal with it.

Regard it as a surprise mechanic. Others pay for crowncrates, i do random vet pugs.. for free.

DonHardstyle · May 2021

preevious wrote: »

DonHardstyle wrote: »

Hoo! Brake, i don't say I'm the best dd ever 🤣dont change words buddy !

I never said you did.

I just say that if you say

"i make sure that i atleasr do good as dd, Wich results in me getting the agro anyway. Since I just do more DPS."

You imply that you do more damage than both DDs. This cannot be undestood any other way.

What if it's not the case, then?

I usually do between 50-60% of the group DMG as fake healer. There are an few, but not many exceptions on this.

The times that it was not the case, it where groups of 4dd high cp players with that ring.

Annyway, this wasn't an discussion about how much dps i am, or about how good i think i am. It was about fake queueing, and how people deal with it. Of how they addept. If they just go for an real take/healer role.

Varana · May 2021

DonHardstyle wrote: »

Oh is that so? Didn't know that!

I'll stop hijacking the thread after this, but there was a detailed (and rather entertaining) exploration of the mechanics here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/391895/a-guide-to-aggro/p1

DonHardstyle · May 2021

Varana wrote: »

DonHardstyle wrote: »

Oh is that so? Didn't know that!

I'll stop hijacking the thread after this, but there was a detailed (and rather entertaining) exploration of the mechanics here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/391895/a-guide-to-aggro/p1

Thnx il have an look!

preevious · May 2021

Ok, so, for your question?

We adapt because we are forced to.
I am lucky to be reasonably competent as a DD, so, I can make do and still do a fair amount of damage (and not die) even if I get the agro.

I'm also lucky to be ranged. If it's a melee DD that gets the aggro, it's especially annoying for him.

..

But I hate it and it's despicable to put fellow players on the spot like that.

DonHardstyle · May 2021

Do you whack on an heal when you are forced to adapt ? I swap siroria for medusa, and put an self heal on (when in on the real queue end ) and what do you believe is an fair amount of DMG i those cases ?

preevious · May 2021

I use critical surge on downtimes (when playing mechs, when the boss teleports, etc .. ), and it's enough most of the times, as long as I stay out of stupid or remember to dodge/block when applicable. At worst, I equip the ring of the pale order (as a really last resort ... because that lowers my DPS, since I lose a big bonus for it).

Fake healers are annoying, yes .. but less so than fake tank. They are mostly annoying because fake healer lowers the overall group DPS, since 2DD + heal outperform 3DD DPS-Wise. They are still a liability for the group, but at least, they are not making everyone around them miserable ... though tanks dying for want of a heal might disagree.

iksde · May 2021

DonHardstyle wrote: »

To start of, this is not an topic to take the *** out of those who fake que. And not an discussion that we don't need tanks/healers in dungeons. Might be true for normal, but for vet i think it's an different story.

I often see posts about the anoyance of fake queing. And let's face it, as long as we have to queue over half an hour for our rdnd we will have fake healers and tanks. I can't complain about it cous i do it myself, but only for my rdnd. And i always let the group know. Up for them to continue with me or not, Wich is fair imo.

The rest of the time, i just queue up properly as dd.
For me as sorc it's pretty easy to deal with fake roles, i just use medusa instead of siroria, and whack on crit surge. With that i heal myself, and it's enough for most content on normal. If it happens in vet dungeons i just leave, simple as it. I make sure I know when to roll dodge if the boss agro's on me and mind my own business. If it happens in vet, especially the dlc dungeons i just leave simple as it.

I always start an dungeon with that setup, until it notice that we have an healer and an tank and then i swap to my normal setup.

How do you deal with it ? If you fake queue, do you say it ? If you have fake roles, what do you do ?

yea and I hate fake DDs for vet content, especially dlc

tbh on normals with single good dd tank and healer are no needed but at 1st this one dd must be good, must have dps to carry this group

on vet dungs it is very rare to get fake tank and I almost never have seen fake tank in vet dlc while also I love having fake healers if they have decent dps - dung is ging faster with additional DD when rest also doesnt stand in stupid

but what I hate are most DD's here....dont care for normals cus just normals but in vet dlc? I jsut cant take it when I see other DD doing no dps, aoe trash fight? single target spammable - boss fight? idk even what he is doing but definitelly not doing enough dps needed for single DD in this harder content

I get that some people can still learn or are not cap[able of doing high dps - then their place definitelly is not in vet dlc dung for which they queued and have problem o take down a single harder trash mob from pack which have maybe 800k health which whould be normally just burned

nothing better than going through vet frosvault and seeing you are doing good 80% dps while also some % is going from tank and 10%+ from friend healer just leveling his healer lol

DonHardstyle · May 2021

The term fake dd, something i don't like. I had an real fake dd, he was an dk main tank with 50k health, accidently queued as dd for some weird reason. That was fun

I don't think you guys refer to fake DD as what I said above,. It as someone that doesn't do lots of DPS. Do you realize that not everyone is as good as you, me, someone else is? Not everyone is capable of pushing 90+k DPS out majority of the players strugle to get past 50k or 70k. If you talk about fake dd's, i don't think this is the thread for you, that's just toxic elitism imo.

iksde · May 2021

DonHardstyle wrote: »

The term fake dd, something i don't like. I had an real fake dd, he was an dk main tank with 50k health, accidently queued as dd for some weird reason. That was fun

I don't think you guys refer to fake DD as what I said above,. It as someone that doesn't do lots of DPS. Do you realize that not everyone is as good as you, me, someone else is? Not everyone is capable of pushing 90+k DPS out majority of the players strugle to get past 50k or 70k. If you talk about fake dd's, i don't think this is the thread for you, that's just toxic elitism imo.

yes Im aware not everyone are exp, so I was writing then so low dps DD doesnt belong to vet dlc dung

and doing less dps than support role...welp, then it is definitelly fake DD as he cant make more dps than role build for support with healing mates or tanking mobs in dung and these fake DD's are just plague in vet dungs...they can go for vet basic dung, sure, most these basic dungs are easy but vet dlc dung? sorry no place for him here if he cant play his role,
same I can go as healer using just single heal around and then being surprised people are dying becasue Im spamming inefficient small aoe heal in front of me not not even caring to hit teamates with it

Michaelkeir · May 2021

-Vet dungeons-
On my Tanks, if I run into a fake healer. I usually keep going and let the group decide if they want to kick him or not. I’m pretty self sufficient in the self heals department so I could care less as I’m use to running 3 dds anyway for my guild for vet dlc hardmodes.
-Fake DDs, well, I’ll try and push through the dungeon, but if the group decides to kick, I’ll side with them.

On my healer, if I run into a fake tank. I’ll and keep him alive, but if he can’t keep taunt and dies constantly, he gets vote kicked or I’ll just leave. Healer ques are not that long so no big loss.
-Fake DDs, well, I’ll try as usual, I’ll even swap out to a DPS set to help out.

On my DDs, if I run into a fake tank. I’ll cry. Wait for the vote kick for the tank. Teleport out of the dungeon and do my daliy zone quest in the Reach until a new tank is found or the group falls apart. Then cry some more.
-Fake healer, well I’ll probably slot Pale Order ring and a self heal and make due.

xv1_me · May 2021

DonHardstyle wrote: »

To start of, this is not an topic to take the *** out of those who fake que. And not an discussion that we don't need tanks/healers in dungeons. Might be true for normal, but for vet i think it's an different story.

I often see posts about the anoyance of fake queing. And let's face it, as long as we have to queue over half an hour for our rdnd we will have fake healers and tanks. I can't complain about it cous i do it myself, but only for my rdnd. And i always let the group know. Up for them to continue with me or not, Wich is fair imo.

The rest of the time, i just queue up properly as dd.
For me as sorc it's pretty easy to deal with fake roles, i just use medusa instead of siroria, and whack on crit surge. With that i heal myself, and it's enough for most content on normal. If it happens in vet dungeons i just leave, simple as it. I make sure I know when to roll dodge if the boss agro's on me and mind my own business. If it happens in vet, especially the dlc dungeons i just leave simple as it.

I always start an dungeon with that setup, until it notice that we have an healer and an tank and then i swap to my normal setup.

How do you deal with it ? If you fake queue, do you say it ? If you have fake roles, what do you do ?

Just queue and do your job. If it’s five minutes on first trash mob leave group.

Why is this queue and fake queue thing always a topic. It’s not that serious.

DonHardstyle · May 2021

xv1_me wrote: »

DonHardstyle wrote: »

To start of, this is not an topic to take the *** out of those who fake que. And not an discussion that we don't need tanks/healers in dungeons. Might be true for normal, but for vet i think it's an different story.

I often see posts about the anoyance of fake queing. And let's face it, as long as we have to queue over half an hour for our rdnd we will have fake healers and tanks. I can't complain about it cous i do it myself, but only for my rdnd. And i always let the group know. Up for them to continue with me or not, Wich is fair imo.

The rest of the time, i just queue up properly as dd.
For me as sorc it's pretty easy to deal with fake roles, i just use medusa instead of siroria, and whack on crit surge. With that i heal myself, and it's enough for most content on normal. If it happens in vet dungeons i just leave, simple as it. I make sure I know when to roll dodge if the boss agro's on me and mind my own business. If it happens in vet, especially the dlc dungeons i just leave simple as it.

I always start an dungeon with that setup, until it notice that we have an healer and an tank and then i swap to my normal setup.

How do you deal with it ? If you fake queue, do you say it ? If you have fake roles, what do you do ?

Just queue and do your job. If it’s five minutes on first trash mob leave group.

Why is this queue and fake queue thing always a topic. It’s not that serious.

For me it's not such an problem. Just made this out of curiosity what others do, and maybe players that so have an problem with it find an way how to deal with it.

Agenericname · May 2021

I usually just queue as a tank on my tank(s) and keep multiple sets for multiple purposes. I typically do one random vet and the vet DLC on my tank, then again on a DD. The probability of getting a vDLC seems a little higher on a random queue, which is fine with me. I rarely have issues, but, damage sets will only go so far in vBRF with 25k group damage. On those rare occassions when that does happen, I'll usually leave.

If I get one of the base game vets, I'll swap to more damage if needed, otherwise I'll just tank it.

If I want a really pleasant evening, I'll just queue with friends, everyone will play their role, get some keys, transmutes, and probay some motifs.