Fake healers and a suggestion to stop them

LettuceBrain · May 2021

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

LettuceBrain wrote: »

I just came up with an idea that is probably utter garbage. How about each role has to meet a certain requirement or they can't queue as that role until, I don't know, 30 minutes later or something? For example, healer has to get 300k HPS (I don't know what the number should actually be, this is just an example) and if they don't meet that standard in their first dungeon they cannot queue as healer for another 30 minutes (again, that number is just an example). For tanks it would be aggro time or a certain number of taunts (or something else if anyone has better ideas for tank requirements).

Actually speaking of problems. The hps requirements in dungeons is just depressing. Like looking at logs some don't even get 1k. Dungeons should do more damage over time

I mean in pugs I am definitely healing a ton (I don't know how to check my actual numbers), but in groups I could definitely see healers not even being needed really.

Starlight_Whisper · May 2021

LettuceBrain wrote: »

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

LettuceBrain wrote: »

I just came up with an idea that is probably utter garbage. How about each role has to meet a certain requirement or they can't queue as that role until, I don't know, 30 minutes later or something? For example, healer has to get 300k HPS (I don't know what the number should actually be, this is just an example) and if they don't meet that standard in their first dungeon they cannot queue as healer for another 30 minutes (again, that number is just an example). For tanks it would be aggro time or a certain number of taunts (or something else if anyone has better ideas for tank requirements).

Actually speaking of problems. The hps requirements in dungeons is just depressing. Like looking at logs some don't even get 1k. Dungeons should do more damage over time

I mean in pugs I am definitely healing a ton (I don't know how to check my actual numbers), but in groups I could definitely see healers not even being needed really.

It's a design issue. Like floor in healing way to low. Anyone can slot self heal and be covered for most part. Not to mention healing hardly cost anything so everyone builds into damage now.

EF321 · May 2021

PullaStormy wrote: »

make healer only available as a role if you have restoration staff opened and equipped, as well as light armor. Same goes for tank, heavy armor and 1h + shield and/or ice staff equipped.

This is stupid. I healed Vet DLC (UG) as a stamden with Medium Rkugamz, Powerful Assault (Medium), Hircine on Bow and Two Daggers.

And locking gear or skillbar is stupid as well. I won't go and do overland in this. I will switch to my combat armor. And I will be in m combat armor while in queue too.

As well as locking gear just for entire run, it is stupid as well. I had such terrible DDs in vLoM, we could not get past plant-spider phase. I switched from my full meta healer gear to my overland combat gear, and one burst heal and one heal over time still slotted. I was doing 40% of damage while still healing entire team, and we finally made it through this boss. With such stupid suggestions this would not be possible, as I would be locked to 10k dps support gear that "boosts" non-existent group damage.

zvavi · May 2021

The real solution to the issues is a real repeatable role tutorials with various difficulty levels with high xp reward for completion that lets you unlock "queuing" for 1. normal 2. normal dlc+vet 3. vet dlc. 4. just for fun.
But it will never happen because of the "you are dealing damage = you are dd" crowd.

iksde · May 2021

LettuceBrain wrote: »

I just came up with an idea that is probably utter garbage. How about each role has to meet a certain requirement or they can't queue as that role until, I don't know, 30 minutes later or something? For example, healer has to get 300k HPS (I don't know what the number should actually be, this is just an example) and if they don't meet that standard in their first dungeon they cannot queue as healer for another 30 minutes (again, that number is just an example). For tanks it would be aggro time or a certain number of taunts (or something else if anyone has better ideas for tank requirements).

healing doesnt need to have effective HPS, for most it is enough to keep single HoT skill with occasionally burst heal when its really bad or just that moment for this, healer is more usefull with addiing buffs to group and debuffs to enemies than overhealing 24/7

for holding agro it is also no problem whiel having slotted jsut inner rage from undaunted avaible for everyone with every weapon

and it amuses me how DD role was not mentioned here to also have test for its DPS to show it is actually DD, not an healer or tank doing 5k-10k dps on fake DD role just for fun or trolls

AcadianPaladin · May 2021

Fake queuing is frustrating but I've never seen a solution that involves changing the group finder that is not worse than the current situation. Honestly, the oft stated advice of 'Pug means you get what you get,' 'If you want specific pug requirements, form your own group/run with a guild,' are about as good as it can get without doing more harm than good. Another tool is to kick fake roles. Lastly, you can build and run a healer or tank that is specifically built for the unique challenges of pugs - at least in easier dungeons.

Nowa133 · May 2021

PullaStormy wrote: »

I'm so tired of people queueing as a fake healer, I want a full party of appropriate roles as I don't want to repeat the bosses a million times when all the DDs die (I most often tank). It's also useful to have a healer if there are low level/CP players, as they will die more likely without a healer than someone on the 1000s.

And my suggestion to stop this is:

Add a role lock, just like there's and alliance lock for Cyro. Players would have to lock into one role for a month, preventing inconsiderate hotpants from ruining the fun for people who want to play by the rules. I'm tired of having to kick fake healers time and time again, so this would be for the best.

We really need this. I even gott fake healers on my vet trial twice on this week. They usually says: "Oh, forgot to change my role. My bad." Of course... that after completely *** the party up. Sometimes they indeed was fake rolling. Got two 'healers' this day that wasn't giving resources up.

FriedEggSandwich · May 2021

I have fake healed. I won't do it to jump the queue, but if me and 2 friends want to run a random normal, and we're all dps, how else do we all get in a random together? I wouldn't do it for a vet dungeon, but I can solo most of the normal non-dlc dungeons, and fake healing hasn't caused any issues so far. I only ever do it when I want to queue for a normal random with 2 other dps. When I queue solo I'm always honest about my role. It feels like the group finder needs to be more flexible. Maybe a flag to say you're ok with no role requirements, or something.

wolfie1.0. · May 2021

Just queue up a companion to fake tank or fake heal for you. That will solve the issue of players doing it.

If you really want to be punishing you make it so that if you a DD you cant heal yourself, or taunt at all. And you take double damage from fights. Then you make it so that tanks can only buff armor and taunt. And healers can only heal...

But ESO is not designed that way. In eso you should always have an emergency skill slotted and a way to heal yourself or to escape. If you dont, then dont PUG any content.

NyassaV · May 2021

What if I told you that when I tank with an un-optimised tank build from like 2 years ago I can still tank and heal the non DLC dungeons in veteran mode.

All this fake tank and fake healer stuff is such BS. This game is pretty easy in the base content as long as you uyse your brain. Like sometimes I queue as Tank or healer when I am mostly DPS but if I'm the "tank" I'll at least put a taunt on my bar to hold agro and I know the mechanics so I don't balls it up. And if I queue as a healer and I am mostly DPS... Actually I basically never do that I just tank and then heal people while tanking so the "healer" can just go full DPS

Starlight_Whisper · May 2021

Here's an idea just make healing cost a lot more. Like you should actually have to build into Regain to heal.

mochizx · May 2021

How about we start a thread for fake dps who cant even pull 5+k aoe dmg and somehow decide to go ahead of group LA everything instead of waiting for tank to pull? Those trash dps are the reason y most supports, and sometimes rlly good support players would avoid using dungeon queue at all cost.

Starlight_Whisper · May 2021

mochizx wrote: »

How about we start a thread for fake dps who cant even pull 5+k aoe dmg and somehow decide to go ahead of group LA everything instead of waiting for tank to pull? Those trash dps are the reason y most supports, and sometimes rlly good support players would avoid using dungeon queue at all cost.

Hard to pull 5k dps unless you aren't putting points all in stamina or magicka.

kargen27 · May 2021

Allow players to opt for a non traditional group in group finder. Group finder would try to make a traditional group first but if no tanks were in the queue and four players have opted to allow no traditional groups off they go with no tank.

EF321 · May 2021

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

mochizx wrote: »

How about we start a thread for fake dps who cant even pull 5+k aoe dmg and somehow decide to go ahead of group LA everything instead of waiting for tank to pull? Those trash dps are the reason y most supports, and sometimes rlly good support players would avoid using dungeon queue at all cost.

Hard to pull 5k dps unless you aren't putting points all in stamina or magicka.

And yet, my randoms are full of people like this...

Starlight_Whisper · May 2021

EF321 wrote: »

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

mochizx wrote: »

How about we start a thread for fake dps who cant even pull 5+k aoe dmg and somehow decide to go ahead of group LA everything instead of waiting for tank to pull? Those trash dps are the reason y most supports, and sometimes rlly good support players would avoid using dungeon queue at all cost.

Hard to pull 5k dps unless you aren't putting points all in stamina or magicka.

And yet, my randoms are full of people like this...

Are you sure though? Cause I think people just remember anecdotal experiences. It happened sure but does it truly happen? It might not be 30k dps but I highly doubt we still get 5k dps

thorwyn · May 2021

My suggestion to counter fake healers in PUG dungeons:

Slot a self heal.

Starlight_Whisper · May 2021

thorwyn wrote: »

My suggestion to counter fake healers in PUG dungeons:

Slot a self heal.

So Begins cycle of why healers aren't needed

thorwyn · May 2021

Actually it's the cycle of how do I work my way around a problem that does not have a solution.

Starlight_Whisper · May 2021

thorwyn wrote: »

Actually it's the cycle of how do I work my way around a problem that does not have a solution.

It's about putting it back to acceptable levels.

thorwyn · May 2021

Correct! Because at some point, everyone has to accept something that can not be changed and everyone has to ask him/herself: how do I handle this?
People in PUG's will always run into other players that do not match their expectations. Tanks with 2 bows, DD's with 10k DPS or healers that don't heal. There is no way whatsoever of forcing players to perform in a certain way regardless how many artificial control mechanisms and gear checks are implemented. Everything can and will be circumvented if people want to go that route. So the only solution is either prepare yourself for the scenario or start a /votekick or leave the group.

Zodiarkslayer · May 2021

Honestly the game is too easy and does not force oneself to improve as a player. For better or worse, it is too casual.🙄

The second part of the source/root issue is that the game has 5 to 10 things you need to farm/obtain, if you want at least a half decent experience. Gold, experience, set pieces, mats, upgrade mats, undaunted keys, transmute crystals, sticker book entries, etc. The list is long.🤓
Now that would not be a problem, if they were interchangeable and obtainable via monetary exchange.🤔

But since random normal dailies offer both an absurd amount of xp for completion, have the highest source for transmute crystals in game and are ridiculously easy and quick to complete, everyone is stupid to not do them daily. 🤦‍♂️

Change that to solve the fake role problem!

Xebov · May 2021

PullaStormy wrote: »

I'm so tired of people queueing as a fake healer, I want a full party of appropriate roles as I don't want to repeat the bosses a million times when all the DDs die (I most often tank). It's also useful to have a healer if there are low level/CP players, as they will die more likely without a healer than someone on the 1000s.

And my suggestion to stop this is:

Add a role lock, just like there's and alliance lock for Cyro. Players would have to lock into one role for a month, preventing inconsiderate hotpants from ruining the fun for people who want to play by the rules. I'm tired of having to kick fake healers time and time again, so this would be for the best.

Just to get you right, iam a tank and your solution to your healer problem is that i should be locked into tank for all eternaty without the ability to run something as a DD from time to time? I guess you notice yourself how bad an idea that is.

This is the 3rd thread within a week suggesting a "solution" against a faker problem that would result in negative impact for actual support players. Just like the other ppl before you didnt spend not a second thinking about the impact it has.

AcadianPaladin · May 2021

Locking roles > Less tanks and healers.
Increasing cost of heals > Less healers.
Increasing difficulty of game > Less players.

GreenHere · May 2021

My favorite solution for this issue is to just queue up on builds that are capable of doing at least two of the three roles.

HealerTanks are kind of fun to play, honestly -- at least to me. And you can do respectable damage as a DamageTank, if all you need to do is stay alive and keep the bosses still while going ham on fools. DamageHeals is pretty much the default for what healers should aim for anyway; maybe just adjust the buffs:damage ratio as needed depending on the group you end up with (as in, buff strong Damage Dealers instead of doing your own DPS, but just do damage yourself if your DDs are terribad).

The key to having a bearable time with randoms in the Group Finder is flexibility. If you go in expecting your pure tank build (or any kind of "only this and nothing else!" build, honestly) to be able to rely on random strangers, you're going to be disappointed pretty often.

I can't tell you how to have fun, but I can tell you that I have a lot more fun now that I go into PUGs looking to fill whatever gap my random group has -- and finding ways to support my random strangers rather than placing any expectations on them. Right or wrong aside, it just goes smoother this way.

HyekAr · May 2021

PullaStormy wrote: »

I'm so tired of people queueing as a fake healer, I want a full party of appropriate roles as I don't want to repeat the bosses a million times when all the DDs die (I most often tank). It's also useful to have a healer if there are low level/CP players, as they will die more likely without a healer than someone on the 1000s.

And my suggestion to stop this is:

Add a role lock, just like there's and alliance lock for Cyro. Players would have to lock into one role for a month, preventing inconsiderate hotpants from ruining the fun for people who want to play by the rules. I'm tired of having to kick fake healers time and time again, so this would be for the best.

I would say TESO is made for individual playing. Healer class in MMO is made for groupal playing.

In TESO you dont have clan system, guild here is not the same. Also the party system is very poor made.

U need a healer for big bosses, but actually having 20 ppl well playing and fighting a big boss, healer is not needed..

So TESO MMO is not made for healers, healer is just a accesory for tank

There is no balance between classes and skills, party playing.

JanTanhide · May 2021

I sorta like this idea. Lock in a role for a month at at time. Hmmm...

For me when I DPS I always have a heal slotted no matter what. I never rely on the Healer to keep me alive. But I have seen those Glass Cannons out there that 100% rely on a Healer.

Starlight_Whisper · May 2021

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

Locking roles > Less tanks and healers.
Increasing cost of heals > Less healers.
Increasing difficulty of game > Less players.

Okay maybe it's time for next mood after veteran then? I am just asking for content where's it's reasonable to bring tank and healer. I want support roles to matter again.

Also I told you guys it would be problem years ago...to all nah sayers I was right.

Lady_Galadhiel · May 2021

mochizx wrote: »

How about we start a thread for fake dps who cant even pull 5+k aoe dmg and somehow decide to go ahead of group LA everything instead of waiting for tank to pull? Those trash dps are the reason y most supports, and sometimes rlly good support players would avoid using dungeon queue at all cost.

Totaly agree with you.

Amottica · May 2021

Sarannah wrote: »

Actually, it is those who do not intend to do the role they signed up for, which should find their own groups. ZOS should enforce roles, even if it hinders builddiversity somewhat. This fake-role abuse has to stop!

I think @VaranisArano pointed out the issue with "forcing" roles, that it is impossible.

VaranisArano wrote: »

PullaStormy wrote: »

Then make it permanent unless you refund all your skill points, attributes and champion points. Or, make healer only available as a role if you have restoration staff opened and equipped, as well as light armor. Same goes for tank, heavy armor and 1h + shield and/or ice staff equipped.

Just because you forced someone to equip it to queue doesn't mean it stays equipped when they enter the dungeon. Or that they use it.

Or, for that matter, that they need it. My pet-MagSorc tanks random normals no problem...with Inner Fire and Light Armor. And have you never had a tank swap to a damage dealer set for untauntable bosses like the Engine Guardian?

It's really easy to turn your preconceived notions about "real tanks" into overly restrictive prescriptions.