Maintenance for the week of December 22:
• NA megaservers for maintenance – December 22, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EST (13:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for maintenance – December 22, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EST (13:00 UTC)
• NA megaservers for maintenance – December 22, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EST (13:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for maintenance – December 22, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EST (13:00 UTC)
How are we supposed to use guild traders without 3rd party software?
-
amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nastassiya wrote: »
I don't agree with having a class change token, but there absolutely should be some form of central auction house or vendor directory.
The only people who benefit from this current system are the big trading guilds in the major hubs. It benefits nobody else.2 -
amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Morgha_Kul wrote: »I have to say, I absolutely loathe the guild trader system.
Because I play casually, I am not in a guild. Oh, I've tried joining guilds, but inevitably get kicked because I'm not making it my second job and can't earn 11 billion gold a day... and yes, there are probably guilds that have no such requirements, but those guilds tend not to sell anything, either because they have no trader, or because they're so dismal that no one buys from them.
The result is that I have tons of stuff I could sell, probably for a good amount (to me), but that I simply can't because I don't have a trader I can access.
The best system I saw was back at Star Wars Galaxies. Traders could purchase a Vendor they could put in their house (houses were placed in the actual environment and could be entered by anyone). They would then put items into the Vendor's inventory, and set a price.
Players could then use terminals in most cities and towns to search all vendors for items... then go to the house and vendor to pick up the item. It meant that even small time traders could sell their goods if they priced them competitively because they would appear on the Trade Terminal in town.
Here in ESO, I'm completely hamstrung.
I agree with this.
SWG is the most successful example of a player driven MMO economy that I can think of. Crafting actually had a purpose - all of the best stuff was player made, not loot drops. The only loot drops were components needed to make the high end stuff. All the tools at the disposal of the crafters / traders made things more convenient for both sellers and buyers.
ESO is by far the absolute worst trader system in an MMO that I have ever experienced. The guild trader system is absolutely atrocious and serves only to benefit the largest of trading guilds who are in the biggest hubs. It serves nobody else.3 -
JKorr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭the1andonlyskwex wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »katanagirl1 wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »Thanks for all the advice everyone, but most of you still suggested that i check popular hubs for each item's worth, which still wastes many hours of my time.
I think ZOS really needs to incorporate a system that lets players *see* all guild trader listings in one place. And people need to keep asking for it or else we will forever rely on 3rd party software.
This also puts many people off from wanting to play the game, including a friend of mine who quit the game mainly for this reason (and for not having a class change token).
And to the people who claim that this would cause lag, no it wouldnt. The game already processes all the listing in real time constantly, and giving you a full list in one place should not affect latency or performance. There is a reason why all other MMOs can do this without any issues.
Many hours? With a hub location, all of the traders are in a, at most, 100 foot circle. In Windhelm you can arrive by wayshrine, walk ten feet past the drunk Nords at the fountain, and visit all the traders in another 30 feet. How desperate are you for gold that a fast look at one hub and a guess at a price that might be a hundred less than the pie in the sky wishful hope price that someone uploaded to TTC would ruin your game?
The problem on console is that that's all anyone does. The net result is that it really does take hours (mostly in loading screens) to find anything truly rare for sale, and trying to sell anything at a trader outside of a major hub is a waste of time.
This is particularly bad for potential sellers who don't want to become full time traders, because the trading guilds that will accept those people (i.e. without unreasonably high quotas or dues) don't have traders in major hubs.
Not really. Just a few minutes is all it takes to check the capital cities, even on console.
For the stuff I sell, I am also trying to buy the ones I don’t get from farming. I take a few minutes every other day to check prices and I already know what the range of prices is for those items.
It’s a game where I invest a little time every now and then and can make the most of the system. I know when a rare item is listed super cheap and can snag it up quick. I also know the lower and higher end prices and can price to sell.
Works very well for me.
You missed my point. What takes hours is trying to find rare items that can't reliably be found by only checking a few traders. I'm not talking about things like crafting/upgrade materials. I'm talking about things like rare motifs/recipes and gear from non-meta sets. (Note: This is from the perspective of someone who doesn't spend a lot of time trading. Yes, I could just check a smaller number of traders every day for a month, which I think might be what you're suggesting, but that just spreads the same time commitment out, rather than reducing it.)
The bigger problem is that only people in big city trading guilds can actually sell anything reliably (because nobody has time to go around checking all of the small time traders), and membership in those guilds requires a huge commitment to trading (in either time or gold). This pretty much forces casual traders out of the seller side of the economy, which benefits the few people who like full-time trading, but hurts everybody else.
Really. I'd better tell my guilds they can't sell anything reliably. None of my guilds have hub kiosks. Every single thing I've listed in my not a hub kiosk guild has sold. Even with my less than ambitious sporadic casual trading regime I've managed to bank over 7 million gold. That's after spending on motifs and basic improvement mats to do low level gear crafting for my guilds for free....and buying a few houses and stuff to put in them. But then, I set my own prices, and don't agonize over not having the same price as everyone else does. I might make a few gold less. Not a huge crisis; I can make more gold if I need it.
No huge commitment in time, or gold. I can't imagine how I could be more of a casual seller. The only people who think I'm being forced out of the economy are the people who are trying to convince as many people as possible that only the high-end, trading is the end game people have a hope of selling anything.
According to your profile you play on PC, which has TTC to help people find items at non-hub traders. I'm talking about console, where no equivalent addon exists.
On console, it's virtually impossible to sell anything at non-hub traders because 99.9% of buyers don't have the time to travel all over the place checking every trader on Nirn. Because there aren't any addons, people just check a hub or two and either buy what they want there or give up because it's not for sale at any of the less than 20 traders they checked.
The whole arrangement is bad for sellers because they need to invest in a high end guild to effectively sell anything other than high-volume commodities at bargain-basement rates (which might sell to full-time traders who will buy low and resell at a hub trader), and it's bad for buyers because they can't effectively find anything if it's not commonly available at a hub trader.
I don't use TTC because I've seen how it can be abused.
I don't understand how all life in this sector of the galaxy will end if someone doesn't price their items within .00001% of what the "correct" price is, however that is determined. I don't understand the mindset that the maximum amount of gold has to be earned from every single sale. If you don't have a billion gold income in a day does the game delete itself and reformat your HD, or brick your console? It is probably just me, since I know the world didn't end when the early players didn't have TTC or MM. It took two weeks, help from several guildmates, and visiting a lot of traders to find a recipe I needed. I had fun with the guildies, found a dozen new quests, and added several POI to my maps. You could ask guildmates what prices they saw, or how much they'd pay for X, but tracking prices across the whole game constantly, no.
Why do you need to "invest in a high end guild" to make a profit? I don't see the sense in "investing" in a guild, which I'll guess means paying high dues and sales requirements; if you're selling stuff to make the gold to pay your dues and meet the sales requirements before you actually make gold you can keep....well. If you have a guild that lets you sell what you want, at prices you choose, AND ALL THE GOLD YOU MAKE YOU KEEP, how is that bad for the seller? I don't mind buying raffle tickets for my trading guild; cost is 100 gold a ticket. No minimum purchase needed. Last week I filled less than 12 of my slots in one guild, didn't bother with the other guilds, and ended up with 270k (1aetherial dust from the last event). All of which I can keep. If I "invested" in a high-end guild, how much of that would be profit, and how much would be dues or payment for not meeting the sales requirement if I wanted to stay in the guild?
If it could be done without tanking the server, a "town board" with list of items for sale in the area might help. Doesn't have to show prices, just a list. That way people who play the game and "high-end trade" as a second job wouldn't have to waste time.0 -
the1andonlyskwex✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭the1andonlyskwex wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »katanagirl1 wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »Thanks for all the advice everyone, but most of you still suggested that i check popular hubs for each item's worth, which still wastes many hours of my time.
I think ZOS really needs to incorporate a system that lets players *see* all guild trader listings in one place. And people need to keep asking for it or else we will forever rely on 3rd party software.
This also puts many people off from wanting to play the game, including a friend of mine who quit the game mainly for this reason (and for not having a class change token).
And to the people who claim that this would cause lag, no it wouldnt. The game already processes all the listing in real time constantly, and giving you a full list in one place should not affect latency or performance. There is a reason why all other MMOs can do this without any issues.
Many hours? With a hub location, all of the traders are in a, at most, 100 foot circle. In Windhelm you can arrive by wayshrine, walk ten feet past the drunk Nords at the fountain, and visit all the traders in another 30 feet. How desperate are you for gold that a fast look at one hub and a guess at a price that might be a hundred less than the pie in the sky wishful hope price that someone uploaded to TTC would ruin your game?
The problem on console is that that's all anyone does. The net result is that it really does take hours (mostly in loading screens) to find anything truly rare for sale, and trying to sell anything at a trader outside of a major hub is a waste of time.
This is particularly bad for potential sellers who don't want to become full time traders, because the trading guilds that will accept those people (i.e. without unreasonably high quotas or dues) don't have traders in major hubs.
Not really. Just a few minutes is all it takes to check the capital cities, even on console.
For the stuff I sell, I am also trying to buy the ones I don’t get from farming. I take a few minutes every other day to check prices and I already know what the range of prices is for those items.
It’s a game where I invest a little time every now and then and can make the most of the system. I know when a rare item is listed super cheap and can snag it up quick. I also know the lower and higher end prices and can price to sell.
Works very well for me.
You missed my point. What takes hours is trying to find rare items that can't reliably be found by only checking a few traders. I'm not talking about things like crafting/upgrade materials. I'm talking about things like rare motifs/recipes and gear from non-meta sets. (Note: This is from the perspective of someone who doesn't spend a lot of time trading. Yes, I could just check a smaller number of traders every day for a month, which I think might be what you're suggesting, but that just spreads the same time commitment out, rather than reducing it.)
The bigger problem is that only people in big city trading guilds can actually sell anything reliably (because nobody has time to go around checking all of the small time traders), and membership in those guilds requires a huge commitment to trading (in either time or gold). This pretty much forces casual traders out of the seller side of the economy, which benefits the few people who like full-time trading, but hurts everybody else.
Really. I'd better tell my guilds they can't sell anything reliably. None of my guilds have hub kiosks. Every single thing I've listed in my not a hub kiosk guild has sold. Even with my less than ambitious sporadic casual trading regime I've managed to bank over 7 million gold. That's after spending on motifs and basic improvement mats to do low level gear crafting for my guilds for free....and buying a few houses and stuff to put in them. But then, I set my own prices, and don't agonize over not having the same price as everyone else does. I might make a few gold less. Not a huge crisis; I can make more gold if I need it.
No huge commitment in time, or gold. I can't imagine how I could be more of a casual seller. The only people who think I'm being forced out of the economy are the people who are trying to convince as many people as possible that only the high-end, trading is the end game people have a hope of selling anything.
According to your profile you play on PC, which has TTC to help people find items at non-hub traders. I'm talking about console, where no equivalent addon exists.
On console, it's virtually impossible to sell anything at non-hub traders because 99.9% of buyers don't have the time to travel all over the place checking every trader on Nirn. Because there aren't any addons, people just check a hub or two and either buy what they want there or give up because it's not for sale at any of the less than 20 traders they checked.
The whole arrangement is bad for sellers because they need to invest in a high end guild to effectively sell anything other than high-volume commodities at bargain-basement rates (which might sell to full-time traders who will buy low and resell at a hub trader), and it's bad for buyers because they can't effectively find anything if it's not commonly available at a hub trader.
I don't use TTC because I've seen how it can be abused.
I don't understand how all life in this sector of the galaxy will end if someone doesn't price their items within .00001% of what the "correct" price is, however that is determined. I don't understand the mindset that the maximum amount of gold has to be earned from every single sale. If you don't have a billion gold income in a day does the game delete itself and reformat your HD, or brick your console? It is probably just me, since I know the world didn't end when the early players didn't have TTC or MM. It took two weeks, help from several guildmates, and visiting a lot of traders to find a recipe I needed. I had fun with the guildies, found a dozen new quests, and added several POI to my maps. You could ask guildmates what prices they saw, or how much they'd pay for X, but tracking prices across the whole game constantly, no.
Why do you need to "invest in a high end guild" to make a profit? I don't see the sense in "investing" in a guild, which I'll guess means paying high dues and sales requirements; if you're selling stuff to make the gold to pay your dues and meet the sales requirements before you actually make gold you can keep....well. If you have a guild that lets you sell what you want, at prices you choose, AND ALL THE GOLD YOU MAKE YOU KEEP, how is that bad for the seller? I don't mind buying raffle tickets for my trading guild; cost is 100 gold a ticket. No minimum purchase needed. Last week I filled less than 12 of my slots in one guild, didn't bother with the other guilds, and ended up with 270k (1aetherial dust from the last event). All of which I can keep. If I "invested" in a high-end guild, how much of that would be profit, and how much would be dues or payment for not meeting the sales requirement if I wanted to stay in the guild?
If it could be done without tanking the server, a "town board" with list of items for sale in the area might help. Doesn't have to show prices, just a list. That way people who play the game and "high-end trade" as a second job wouldn't have to waste time.
It doesn't matter whether you use TTC or not. As a seller, you still benefit from it existing. Potential buyers are using it to find your goods for sale, and other sellers are using TTC to set their prices (which makes it easier for you to estimate the going rate for a somewhat common item by only checking a few sources).
Without TTC, 99.9% of potential buyers aren't checking anywhere other than the big hubs for the things they want to buy, and apparently you fall into the remaining 0.1% who are willing to enlist your whole guild and spend 2 weeks searching traders for a single item.Edited by the1andonlyskwex on May 21, 2021 5:03PM2 -
Kantuuka✭✭✭
No, just cause you dont like to use addons dont mean the rest of the people feel the same. As you say you self, you have choice. You choose not to use it, while 98 % of people choose to use addons. And just for a notice TTC, ATT, Mastermerchant and all other addons are not "unlicensed 3rd party software" they are all legal and greenlighted by ZOS. Dont see your problem, its your choiceI dont like using tamriel trade centre just to know how much my items are worth. Can someone explain to me how i am supposed to trade in this game without having to use 3rd party software like addons or TTC's website?
How do the console players do it? TTC website
Is it about time for a central guild trader listing to be added in the game? Since its a closed question, then no.
Should ZOS put a disclaimer on the game that unlicensed 3rd party software is required to play the game?
If they wont allow 3th party programs (addons) then they should remove all addons in your eyes. And then good luck playing the game.
More then 1 is a Zerg..1 -
the1andonlyskwex✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Goregrinder wrote: »Personally, GW2's system is the best, by a significant amount (would be better if you didnt have to talk to an npc to get your cash), and wish every MMO used that as the bare minimum for how to design a marketplace / AH / bazaar.
The MP in GW2 tends to lag a lot, fails purchases for no reason, and the entire game is designed on having lower drop rates of things than we have in ESO.
IF the devs ever decided that ESO needs a central market, they would have to cut the drop rates of everything by 90%, and that would make the people who like getting stuff themselves very unhappy.
GW2 forces you to use the MP if you want to progress. ESO doesn't force anyone to use the guild traders. You can farm all but the rarest items yourself.
That does not sound like the "best" system to me.
To be fair, it also doesn't sound like an accurate description of the trading system in GW2, unless things got a lot worse since I stopped playing it (for reasons completely unrelated to trading).0 -
iksde✭✭✭✭the1andonlyskwex wrote: »
for me it is mostly unplayable
from basics what we ahve in game or how not very good it is I just cant even look at this game without addons and just for these basics even ignoring TTC and other trade addons I use maybe just 2-3 addons, rest of my addons are just for more comfortable/easier playing as I have access for it
without addons I doubt I would be playign this game on daily when Im not on break from this game and for sure I wont care to touch anything engame/vet content probably as I wont want to struggle with looking at combat/buff/debuff/skill cues etc, something which is not a single problem if literally all games I have played/seen which domt need a single addon for comfortable playing like in ESO I need along with many others with Im playing1 -
ForeverJenn✭✭✭I can't imagine how worse off the performance issues this game would be if we had to query a single mega server's auction house.1
-
Nestor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Please note, if you drop a guild, any items not sold are returned to you.
So sell your stuff first
Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.
PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"0 -
Kantuuka✭✭✭the1andonlyskwex wrote: »
It would be for like 98 % of the people playing the PC version of this gameMore then 1 is a Zerg..1 -
JKorr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭the1andonlyskwex wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »katanagirl1 wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »Thanks for all the advice everyone, but most of you still suggested that i check popular hubs for each item's worth, which still wastes many hours of my time.
I think ZOS really needs to incorporate a system that lets players *see* all guild trader listings in one place. And people need to keep asking for it or else we will forever rely on 3rd party software.
This also puts many people off from wanting to play the game, including a friend of mine who quit the game mainly for this reason (and for not having a class change token).
And to the people who claim that this would cause lag, no it wouldnt. The game already processes all the listing in real time constantly, and giving you a full list in one place should not affect latency or performance. There is a reason why all other MMOs can do this without any issues.
Many hours? With a hub location, all of the traders are in a, at most, 100 foot circle. In Windhelm you can arrive by wayshrine, walk ten feet past the drunk Nords at the fountain, and visit all the traders in another 30 feet. How desperate are you for gold that a fast look at one hub and a guess at a price that might be a hundred less than the pie in the sky wishful hope price that someone uploaded to TTC would ruin your game?
The problem on console is that that's all anyone does. The net result is that it really does take hours (mostly in loading screens) to find anything truly rare for sale, and trying to sell anything at a trader outside of a major hub is a waste of time.
This is particularly bad for potential sellers who don't want to become full time traders, because the trading guilds that will accept those people (i.e. without unreasonably high quotas or dues) don't have traders in major hubs.
Not really. Just a few minutes is all it takes to check the capital cities, even on console.
For the stuff I sell, I am also trying to buy the ones I don’t get from farming. I take a few minutes every other day to check prices and I already know what the range of prices is for those items.
It’s a game where I invest a little time every now and then and can make the most of the system. I know when a rare item is listed super cheap and can snag it up quick. I also know the lower and higher end prices and can price to sell.
Works very well for me.
You missed my point. What takes hours is trying to find rare items that can't reliably be found by only checking a few traders. I'm not talking about things like crafting/upgrade materials. I'm talking about things like rare motifs/recipes and gear from non-meta sets. (Note: This is from the perspective of someone who doesn't spend a lot of time trading. Yes, I could just check a smaller number of traders every day for a month, which I think might be what you're suggesting, but that just spreads the same time commitment out, rather than reducing it.)
The bigger problem is that only people in big city trading guilds can actually sell anything reliably (because nobody has time to go around checking all of the small time traders), and membership in those guilds requires a huge commitment to trading (in either time or gold). This pretty much forces casual traders out of the seller side of the economy, which benefits the few people who like full-time trading, but hurts everybody else.
Really. I'd better tell my guilds they can't sell anything reliably. None of my guilds have hub kiosks. Every single thing I've listed in my not a hub kiosk guild has sold. Even with my less than ambitious sporadic casual trading regime I've managed to bank over 7 million gold. That's after spending on motifs and basic improvement mats to do low level gear crafting for my guilds for free....and buying a few houses and stuff to put in them. But then, I set my own prices, and don't agonize over not having the same price as everyone else does. I might make a few gold less. Not a huge crisis; I can make more gold if I need it.
No huge commitment in time, or gold. I can't imagine how I could be more of a casual seller. The only people who think I'm being forced out of the economy are the people who are trying to convince as many people as possible that only the high-end, trading is the end game people have a hope of selling anything.
According to your profile you play on PC, which has TTC to help people find items at non-hub traders. I'm talking about console, where no equivalent addon exists.
On console, it's virtually impossible to sell anything at non-hub traders because 99.9% of buyers don't have the time to travel all over the place checking every trader on Nirn. Because there aren't any addons, people just check a hub or two and either buy what they want there or give up because it's not for sale at any of the less than 20 traders they checked.
The whole arrangement is bad for sellers because they need to invest in a high end guild to effectively sell anything other than high-volume commodities at bargain-basement rates (which might sell to full-time traders who will buy low and resell at a hub trader), and it's bad for buyers because they can't effectively find anything if it's not commonly available at a hub trader.
I don't use TTC because I've seen how it can be abused.
I don't understand how all life in this sector of the galaxy will end if someone doesn't price their items within .00001% of what the "correct" price is, however that is determined. I don't understand the mindset that the maximum amount of gold has to be earned from every single sale. If you don't have a billion gold income in a day does the game delete itself and reformat your HD, or brick your console? It is probably just me, since I know the world didn't end when the early players didn't have TTC or MM. It took two weeks, help from several guildmates, and visiting a lot of traders to find a recipe I needed. I had fun with the guildies, found a dozen new quests, and added several POI to my maps. You could ask guildmates what prices they saw, or how much they'd pay for X, but tracking prices across the whole game constantly, no.
Why do you need to "invest in a high end guild" to make a profit? I don't see the sense in "investing" in a guild, which I'll guess means paying high dues and sales requirements; if you're selling stuff to make the gold to pay your dues and meet the sales requirements before you actually make gold you can keep....well. If you have a guild that lets you sell what you want, at prices you choose, AND ALL THE GOLD YOU MAKE YOU KEEP, how is that bad for the seller? I don't mind buying raffle tickets for my trading guild; cost is 100 gold a ticket. No minimum purchase needed. Last week I filled less than 12 of my slots in one guild, didn't bother with the other guilds, and ended up with 270k (1aetherial dust from the last event). All of which I can keep. If I "invested" in a high-end guild, how much of that would be profit, and how much would be dues or payment for not meeting the sales requirement if I wanted to stay in the guild?
If it could be done without tanking the server, a "town board" with list of items for sale in the area might help. Doesn't have to show prices, just a list. That way people who play the game and "high-end trade" as a second job wouldn't have to waste time.
It doesn't matter whether you use TTC or not. As a seller, you still benefit from it existing. Potential buyers are using it to find your goods for sale, and other sellers are using TTC to set their prices (which makes it easier for you to estimate the going rate for a somewhat common item by only checking a few sources).
Without TTC, 99.9% of potential buyers aren't checking anywhere other than the big hubs for the things they want to buy, and apparently you fall into the remaining 0.1% who are willing to enlist your whole guild and spend 2 weeks searching traders for a single item.
Except my items don't get uploaded to TTC. :shrug: I hate to break the news to you, but when the guild traders started, TTC didn't exist. The memory is vague at this point, but iirc MM was first, and it only has information on *your* guilds for prices. No search. While it would have been great for my ego if all 450+ members of my guild helped me look for that recipe, it didn't happen like that. 4 other crafters looked for the recipe when the visited various traders they were going to anyway, searching for items they needed, and of course I repaid the favor and looked for things they needed, too. That whole "help out guild mates" thing. Everyone had to visit traders in person at that point: there was no alternative. Early access, active subscription, pre-One Tamriel, life was hard, everyone walked a hundred miles both ways through the snow/sand/swamp (or used their basic white imperial horse) to get to the wilderness traders in search of needed items or good deals.
I agree searching could be easier, but I don't agree on a central auction house.0 -
the1andonlyskwex✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭the1andonlyskwex wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »katanagirl1 wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »Thanks for all the advice everyone, but most of you still suggested that i check popular hubs for each item's worth, which still wastes many hours of my time.
I think ZOS really needs to incorporate a system that lets players *see* all guild trader listings in one place. And people need to keep asking for it or else we will forever rely on 3rd party software.
This also puts many people off from wanting to play the game, including a friend of mine who quit the game mainly for this reason (and for not having a class change token).
And to the people who claim that this would cause lag, no it wouldnt. The game already processes all the listing in real time constantly, and giving you a full list in one place should not affect latency or performance. There is a reason why all other MMOs can do this without any issues.
Many hours? With a hub location, all of the traders are in a, at most, 100 foot circle. In Windhelm you can arrive by wayshrine, walk ten feet past the drunk Nords at the fountain, and visit all the traders in another 30 feet. How desperate are you for gold that a fast look at one hub and a guess at a price that might be a hundred less than the pie in the sky wishful hope price that someone uploaded to TTC would ruin your game?
The problem on console is that that's all anyone does. The net result is that it really does take hours (mostly in loading screens) to find anything truly rare for sale, and trying to sell anything at a trader outside of a major hub is a waste of time.
This is particularly bad for potential sellers who don't want to become full time traders, because the trading guilds that will accept those people (i.e. without unreasonably high quotas or dues) don't have traders in major hubs.
Not really. Just a few minutes is all it takes to check the capital cities, even on console.
For the stuff I sell, I am also trying to buy the ones I don’t get from farming. I take a few minutes every other day to check prices and I already know what the range of prices is for those items.
It’s a game where I invest a little time every now and then and can make the most of the system. I know when a rare item is listed super cheap and can snag it up quick. I also know the lower and higher end prices and can price to sell.
Works very well for me.
You missed my point. What takes hours is trying to find rare items that can't reliably be found by only checking a few traders. I'm not talking about things like crafting/upgrade materials. I'm talking about things like rare motifs/recipes and gear from non-meta sets. (Note: This is from the perspective of someone who doesn't spend a lot of time trading. Yes, I could just check a smaller number of traders every day for a month, which I think might be what you're suggesting, but that just spreads the same time commitment out, rather than reducing it.)
The bigger problem is that only people in big city trading guilds can actually sell anything reliably (because nobody has time to go around checking all of the small time traders), and membership in those guilds requires a huge commitment to trading (in either time or gold). This pretty much forces casual traders out of the seller side of the economy, which benefits the few people who like full-time trading, but hurts everybody else.
Really. I'd better tell my guilds they can't sell anything reliably. None of my guilds have hub kiosks. Every single thing I've listed in my not a hub kiosk guild has sold. Even with my less than ambitious sporadic casual trading regime I've managed to bank over 7 million gold. That's after spending on motifs and basic improvement mats to do low level gear crafting for my guilds for free....and buying a few houses and stuff to put in them. But then, I set my own prices, and don't agonize over not having the same price as everyone else does. I might make a few gold less. Not a huge crisis; I can make more gold if I need it.
No huge commitment in time, or gold. I can't imagine how I could be more of a casual seller. The only people who think I'm being forced out of the economy are the people who are trying to convince as many people as possible that only the high-end, trading is the end game people have a hope of selling anything.
According to your profile you play on PC, which has TTC to help people find items at non-hub traders. I'm talking about console, where no equivalent addon exists.
On console, it's virtually impossible to sell anything at non-hub traders because 99.9% of buyers don't have the time to travel all over the place checking every trader on Nirn. Because there aren't any addons, people just check a hub or two and either buy what they want there or give up because it's not for sale at any of the less than 20 traders they checked.
The whole arrangement is bad for sellers because they need to invest in a high end guild to effectively sell anything other than high-volume commodities at bargain-basement rates (which might sell to full-time traders who will buy low and resell at a hub trader), and it's bad for buyers because they can't effectively find anything if it's not commonly available at a hub trader.
I don't use TTC because I've seen how it can be abused.
I don't understand how all life in this sector of the galaxy will end if someone doesn't price their items within .00001% of what the "correct" price is, however that is determined. I don't understand the mindset that the maximum amount of gold has to be earned from every single sale. If you don't have a billion gold income in a day does the game delete itself and reformat your HD, or brick your console? It is probably just me, since I know the world didn't end when the early players didn't have TTC or MM. It took two weeks, help from several guildmates, and visiting a lot of traders to find a recipe I needed. I had fun with the guildies, found a dozen new quests, and added several POI to my maps. You could ask guildmates what prices they saw, or how much they'd pay for X, but tracking prices across the whole game constantly, no.
Why do you need to "invest in a high end guild" to make a profit? I don't see the sense in "investing" in a guild, which I'll guess means paying high dues and sales requirements; if you're selling stuff to make the gold to pay your dues and meet the sales requirements before you actually make gold you can keep....well. If you have a guild that lets you sell what you want, at prices you choose, AND ALL THE GOLD YOU MAKE YOU KEEP, how is that bad for the seller? I don't mind buying raffle tickets for my trading guild; cost is 100 gold a ticket. No minimum purchase needed. Last week I filled less than 12 of my slots in one guild, didn't bother with the other guilds, and ended up with 270k (1aetherial dust from the last event). All of which I can keep. If I "invested" in a high-end guild, how much of that would be profit, and how much would be dues or payment for not meeting the sales requirement if I wanted to stay in the guild?
If it could be done without tanking the server, a "town board" with list of items for sale in the area might help. Doesn't have to show prices, just a list. That way people who play the game and "high-end trade" as a second job wouldn't have to waste time.
It doesn't matter whether you use TTC or not. As a seller, you still benefit from it existing. Potential buyers are using it to find your goods for sale, and other sellers are using TTC to set their prices (which makes it easier for you to estimate the going rate for a somewhat common item by only checking a few sources).
Without TTC, 99.9% of potential buyers aren't checking anywhere other than the big hubs for the things they want to buy, and apparently you fall into the remaining 0.1% who are willing to enlist your whole guild and spend 2 weeks searching traders for a single item.
Except my items don't get uploaded to TTC. :shrug: I hate to break the news to you, but when the guild traders started, TTC didn't exist. The memory is vague at this point, but iirc MM was first, and it only has information on *your* guilds for prices. No search. While it would have been great for my ego if all 450+ members of my guild helped me look for that recipe, it didn't happen like that. 4 other crafters looked for the recipe when the visited various traders they were going to anyway, searching for items they needed, and of course I repaid the favor and looked for things they needed, too. That whole "help out guild mates" thing. Everyone had to visit traders in person at that point: there was no alternative. Early access, active subscription, pre-One Tamriel, life was hard, everyone walked a hundred miles both ways through the snow/sand/swamp (or used their basic white imperial horse) to get to the wilderness traders in search of needed items or good deals.
I agree searching could be easier, but I don't agree on a central auction house.
Oh, I thought you were speaking from recent experience. I think things have changed a lot in the last 6-7 years. If the most recent experience you have is from pre-One Tamriel, why are you even still on these forums?Edited by the1andonlyskwex on May 22, 2021 1:19AM0 -
Nagastani✭✭✭✭I dont like using tamriel trade centre just to know how much my items are worth. Can someone explain to me how i am supposed to trade in this game without having to use 3rd party software like addons or TTC's website?
How do the console players do it?
Is it about time for a central guild trader listing to be added in the game?
Should ZOS put a disclaimer on the game that unlicensed 3rd party software is required to play the game?
So are you asking for something or looking for assistance lol?
I've been with ESO since close to the very beginning, have made millions and have never used MM. Now I do like TTC but all that does is reveal where the low prices are and ppl skoop those up and sell high.
I think the central vendor idea is terrible and its something I've heard before however be careful what you ask for as all that will accomplish is everyone selling a product for roughly the same price. A central vendor will ensure that almost no one gets any deals because the lowest priced items will get bought in the first hour. Then everyone else will get in q and try to outbid the next person by a $1 difference.
Terrible, terrible idea and I hope it never gets implemented. Best thing to do is just put in some time and work to stay informed and sell your products at the best prices. No one can or should do that for you. And those of us who do put the time in should be rewarded not punished for pursuing something worth while.Edited by Nagastani on May 22, 2021 1:40AM1 -
iksde✭✭✭✭Except my items don't get uploaded to TTC.
yes they are, anyone using TTC is gathering data when browsing any store and also if want can do a scan for all items in that trader and then when reloading or just loggining off gathered data is uploading into online TTC for eveyone have access1 -
JKorr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭the1andonlyskwex wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »katanagirl1 wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »Thanks for all the advice everyone, but most of you still suggested that i check popular hubs for each item's worth, which still wastes many hours of my time.
I think ZOS really needs to incorporate a system that lets players *see* all guild trader listings in one place. And people need to keep asking for it or else we will forever rely on 3rd party software.
This also puts many people off from wanting to play the game, including a friend of mine who quit the game mainly for this reason (and for not having a class change token).
And to the people who claim that this would cause lag, no it wouldnt. The game already processes all the listing in real time constantly, and giving you a full list in one place should not affect latency or performance. There is a reason why all other MMOs can do this without any issues.
Many hours? With a hub location, all of the traders are in a, at most, 100 foot circle. In Windhelm you can arrive by wayshrine, walk ten feet past the drunk Nords at the fountain, and visit all the traders in another 30 feet. How desperate are you for gold that a fast look at one hub and a guess at a price that might be a hundred less than the pie in the sky wishful hope price that someone uploaded to TTC would ruin your game?
The problem on console is that that's all anyone does. The net result is that it really does take hours (mostly in loading screens) to find anything truly rare for sale, and trying to sell anything at a trader outside of a major hub is a waste of time.
This is particularly bad for potential sellers who don't want to become full time traders, because the trading guilds that will accept those people (i.e. without unreasonably high quotas or dues) don't have traders in major hubs.
Not really. Just a few minutes is all it takes to check the capital cities, even on console.
For the stuff I sell, I am also trying to buy the ones I don’t get from farming. I take a few minutes every other day to check prices and I already know what the range of prices is for those items.
It’s a game where I invest a little time every now and then and can make the most of the system. I know when a rare item is listed super cheap and can snag it up quick. I also know the lower and higher end prices and can price to sell.
Works very well for me.
You missed my point. What takes hours is trying to find rare items that can't reliably be found by only checking a few traders. I'm not talking about things like crafting/upgrade materials. I'm talking about things like rare motifs/recipes and gear from non-meta sets. (Note: This is from the perspective of someone who doesn't spend a lot of time trading. Yes, I could just check a smaller number of traders every day for a month, which I think might be what you're suggesting, but that just spreads the same time commitment out, rather than reducing it.)
The bigger problem is that only people in big city trading guilds can actually sell anything reliably (because nobody has time to go around checking all of the small time traders), and membership in those guilds requires a huge commitment to trading (in either time or gold). This pretty much forces casual traders out of the seller side of the economy, which benefits the few people who like full-time trading, but hurts everybody else.
Really. I'd better tell my guilds they can't sell anything reliably. None of my guilds have hub kiosks. Every single thing I've listed in my not a hub kiosk guild has sold. Even with my less than ambitious sporadic casual trading regime I've managed to bank over 7 million gold. That's after spending on motifs and basic improvement mats to do low level gear crafting for my guilds for free....and buying a few houses and stuff to put in them. But then, I set my own prices, and don't agonize over not having the same price as everyone else does. I might make a few gold less. Not a huge crisis; I can make more gold if I need it.
No huge commitment in time, or gold. I can't imagine how I could be more of a casual seller. The only people who think I'm being forced out of the economy are the people who are trying to convince as many people as possible that only the high-end, trading is the end game people have a hope of selling anything.
According to your profile you play on PC, which has TTC to help people find items at non-hub traders. I'm talking about console, where no equivalent addon exists.
On console, it's virtually impossible to sell anything at non-hub traders because 99.9% of buyers don't have the time to travel all over the place checking every trader on Nirn. Because there aren't any addons, people just check a hub or two and either buy what they want there or give up because it's not for sale at any of the less than 20 traders they checked.
The whole arrangement is bad for sellers because they need to invest in a high end guild to effectively sell anything other than high-volume commodities at bargain-basement rates (which might sell to full-time traders who will buy low and resell at a hub trader), and it's bad for buyers because they can't effectively find anything if it's not commonly available at a hub trader.
I don't use TTC because I've seen how it can be abused.
I don't understand how all life in this sector of the galaxy will end if someone doesn't price their items within .00001% of what the "correct" price is, however that is determined. I don't understand the mindset that the maximum amount of gold has to be earned from every single sale. If you don't have a billion gold income in a day does the game delete itself and reformat your HD, or brick your console? It is probably just me, since I know the world didn't end when the early players didn't have TTC or MM. It took two weeks, help from several guildmates, and visiting a lot of traders to find a recipe I needed. I had fun with the guildies, found a dozen new quests, and added several POI to my maps. You could ask guildmates what prices they saw, or how much they'd pay for X, but tracking prices across the whole game constantly, no.
Why do you need to "invest in a high end guild" to make a profit? I don't see the sense in "investing" in a guild, which I'll guess means paying high dues and sales requirements; if you're selling stuff to make the gold to pay your dues and meet the sales requirements before you actually make gold you can keep....well. If you have a guild that lets you sell what you want, at prices you choose, AND ALL THE GOLD YOU MAKE YOU KEEP, how is that bad for the seller? I don't mind buying raffle tickets for my trading guild; cost is 100 gold a ticket. No minimum purchase needed. Last week I filled less than 12 of my slots in one guild, didn't bother with the other guilds, and ended up with 270k (1aetherial dust from the last event). All of which I can keep. If I "invested" in a high-end guild, how much of that would be profit, and how much would be dues or payment for not meeting the sales requirement if I wanted to stay in the guild?
If it could be done without tanking the server, a "town board" with list of items for sale in the area might help. Doesn't have to show prices, just a list. That way people who play the game and "high-end trade" as a second job wouldn't have to waste time.
It doesn't matter whether you use TTC or not. As a seller, you still benefit from it existing. Potential buyers are using it to find your goods for sale, and other sellers are using TTC to set their prices (which makes it easier for you to estimate the going rate for a somewhat common item by only checking a few sources).
Without TTC, 99.9% of potential buyers aren't checking anywhere other than the big hubs for the things they want to buy, and apparently you fall into the remaining 0.1% who are willing to enlist your whole guild and spend 2 weeks searching traders for a single item.
Except my items don't get uploaded to TTC. :shrug: I hate to break the news to you, but when the guild traders started, TTC didn't exist. The memory is vague at this point, but iirc MM was first, and it only has information on *your* guilds for prices. No search. While it would have been great for my ego if all 450+ members of my guild helped me look for that recipe, it didn't happen like that. 4 other crafters looked for the recipe when the visited various traders they were going to anyway, searching for items they needed, and of course I repaid the favor and looked for things they needed, too. That whole "help out guild mates" thing. Everyone had to visit traders in person at that point: there was no alternative. Early access, active subscription, pre-One Tamriel, life was hard, everyone walked a hundred miles both ways through the snow/sand/swamp (or used their basic white imperial horse) to get to the wilderness traders in search of needed items or good deals.
I agree searching could be easier, but I don't agree on a central auction house.
Oh, I thought you were speaking from recent experience. I think things have changed a lot in the last 6-7 years. If the most recent experience you have is from pre-One Tamriel, why are you even still on these forums?
Gee. Why am I still on the forums......hmmmm....Well, I was interested enough to start following information about the game in the rumors stage, that was 2011. I didn't pay too much attention until there was more than pointless PvP to it. I played in the closed betas, played in the open betas. Pre-orderef the Imperial edition. Played regularly every day since because I have fun playing and enjoy the game, with the full roster of 18 characters on my main account, and 6 and counting on my second account. Picked up the loyalty senche and wish they'd stuck with a sub. Also picked up all the dlc/chapters because I'm still having fun with the game. Waiting for the new one to drop. Gosh. I can't imagine why I might still be around the forums. Mystery of the ages, I guess. By the way, I know massive amounts of things have changed since early release; some for the better, others, not so much.0 -
Sinthrax✭✭✭✭Its not just the guild traders. The entire UI is hot garbage. And no amount of this or that is going to change my mind. So save it....3 -
Nastassiya✭✭✭ForeverJenn wrote: »I can't imagine how worse off the performance issues this game would be if we had to query a single mega server's auction house.
not even 1% worse off. It most likely is one database with a table for each guild vendor. You need to remember that that the table needs to be able to join with a table of each items that has an index for different traits, enchants, level, ect. It's not a separate database for each vendor. On top of that, guilds can have their own internal guild store. It would be too expensive to manage the cost, regardless of it's AWS or Oracle, if they dedicated an entire database to just one vendor.0
