Dear Zone Chat

Saucy_Jack · May 2021

"I'm buying all mats for 30% of market value, because I have no scruples whatsoever regarding taking advantage of new players. Also, I'm selling a bunch of stuff, but rather than name my price, I'm just going to make you guess what I want to sell it for until I'm happy."

^ if that's you, stop actively making the world a worse place. Get some help.

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.

DinoZavr · May 2021

This, probably, bothers a plenty our console brothers,
as on PC there is quite enough addons completely wiping all of WTS, WTB, WTT and most of Guild advertizng,
because this kind of spam is, unfortunately, 90%+ of the most of zones chats.

FriedEggSandwich · May 2021

Come to PC EU, we don't have zone chat here. JK we have zone chat, but it is a lot less active than PC NA.

redspecter23 · May 2021

The sad part is that the people you're referring to don't believe they are doing anything wrong. Telling them they are making the world a worse place confuses them. They don't understand why you won't just let them do their thing (reselling for massive profit by taking advantage of players).

There are two types of people in the game. Those that want to help others and those that don't even consider other people as actual people. They are little more than pixelated tools to give them some sort of advantage. Telling them to stop earning gold from the pixel tools in the world makes no sense to them at all. They are not hurting themselves in anyway so they just don't understand why they should stop.

Sanctum74 · May 2021

It’s an unpopular opinion, but I’m glad we have people like this in zone chat. Sometimes you just want to get rid of a stack of items without joining a guild, selling in zone chat, or worse the npc vendors that only give you 1 gold each those are the real scammers lol.

Personally I’m more bothered by people that think they are saving the world by calling out people’s pricing in zone chat or insulting people that do as if their toxicity is somehow justified because they think they are helping people.

Smitch_59 · May 2021

My solution is to turn zone chat off. Always.

bmnoble · May 2021

Sanctum74 wrote: »

It’s an unpopular opinion, but I’m glad we have people like this in zone chat. Sometimes you just want to get rid of a stack of items without joining a guild, selling in zone chat, or worse the npc vendors that only give you 1 gold each those are the real scammers lol.

Personally I’m more bothered by people that think they are saving the world by calling out people’s pricing in zone chat or insulting people that do as if their toxicity is somehow justified because they think they are helping people.

I will link the price info if its massively under priced, then move on and let who every wants to deal with the buyer work it out themselves. Got no interest in spending time in zone chat arguing with someone, I just go back to what I was doing.

That goes both ways too, if someone is trying to sell something for two low I will link the price as well rather than buying it and flipping it.

Plenty of times I have seen there price change as a result other times they just move onto some other zone.

If its someone in one of my guilds and I catch something I need massively under priced, I buy the item then I send them a mail with a bit of extra gold mentioning the price range they should consider selling the item for in future gotten more than a few thank you for that over the years.

SeaGtGruff · May 2021

Saucy_Jack wrote: »

"I'm buying all mats for 30% of market value, because I have no scruples whatsoever regarding taking advantage of new players.

The only problem is, what is the "market value"? If you check on TTC, the list prices for any given item can vary a great deal, from extremely low to extremely high. And every so often a crafter will come to the forums and post a thread bemoaning the rising prices of the mats they need for their crafting. I think it's entirely reasonable for dedicated crafters buying supplies for their own use to post the prices they're hoping to pay, which are more likely going to be on the low end.

I'm definitely not a fan of flippers-- not in the slightest-- but I've actually got more tolerance for the WTB and WTS zone posts than I am of the people who make it their duty to respond to those posts with prices quoted from TTC.

The idea that it's okay to harass people who post low WTB requests in zone chat by quoting TTC recommended prices and telling them to stop trying to scam new players because (as someone suggested in another thread) players who are looking on guild traders can see competing prices for themselves seems to imply that players are incapable of walking up to any guild trader to check prices when they see someone post a WTB or WTS request.

As defenders of the guild trading system say whenever the issue of rising prices comes up, players can list items at whatever prices they want, and it's up to potential buyers to either shop around for better prices, pay the requested prices, or farm the items themselves. Some players do list items at "low, low" prices-- and those are the listings that go very quickly, since those are the prices that most people would prefer to pay-- so it seems reasonable to me that a crafter trying to stock up on mats for their crafting needs would want to ask for "low, low" prices.

If I see a WTB request for some mat that I happen to have a lot of, and decide that maybe I'll sell to them, I like to strike up a conversation with them to try to determine whether they're a crafter or a flipper. They could always lie about being a crafter-- but whenever I've taken them up on their offers and sold them a stack or two of mats I don't need, they've almost always sent me some nice furnishing they've crafted as a thank you.

It's a tough call, but sometimes you just have to take a chance by giving people the benefit of the doubt.

DinoZavr wrote: »

this kind of spam is, unfortunately, 90%+ of the most of zones chats.

I don't see that much of it in zone chat. Which zones are you in? Some zones do seem to have more WTB and WTS requests than others, but I wouldn't put it at 90+%.

redspecter23 wrote: »

The sad part is that the people you're referring to don't believe they are doing anything wrong. Telling them they are making the world a worse place confuses them. They don't understand why you won't just let them do their thing (reselling for massive profit by taking advantage of players).

There are two types of people in the game. Those that want to help others and those that don't even consider other people as actual people. They are little more than pixelated tools to give them some sort of advantage. Telling them to stop earning gold from the pixel tools in the world makes no sense to them at all. They are not hurting themselves in anyway so they just don't understand why they should stop.

You're inserting your own assumptions onto their actions. How do you know they're resellers? I know it's very, very tempting to make that assumption, but if you apply that assumption to 100% of the people and attack them, you're just going to end up attacking some innocents along with any guilty parties. That might not bother you if you're on the dishing-it-out end, but if you ever end up on the receiving end of being attacked by someone because they made an incorrect assumption about you, your actions, or your motivations then you probably wouldn't enjoy it very much. You can't make the world a better place by going around attacking people on the basis of your assumptions.

ResidentContrarian · May 2021

It could always be that players have an absolute price they will pay for something, even if everyone else is charging a lot gold to force prices up.

Though it is true that it's almost always resellers...

Hapexamendios · May 2021

My only response: #RIPOFF

SeaGtGruff · May 2021

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

Though it is true that it's almost always resellers...

If I see someone post a WTB for "all mats," I tend to assume that they're a reseller, although I never attack or harass them, and if I'm considering selling any excess mats to them then I'll try to feel them out first to see if I can tell whether they're a reseller or a crafter. Quite a few of them are indeed crafters. I can't say how many-- that is, what percentage-- because I only respond to a small percentage of them to begin with.

VaranisArano · May 2021

Sanctum74 wrote: »

It’s an unpopular opinion, but I’m glad we have people like this in zone chat. Sometimes you just want to get rid of a stack of items without joining a guild, selling in zone chat, or worse the npc vendors that only give you 1 gold each those are the real scammers lol.

Personally I’m more bothered by people that think they are saving the world by calling out people’s pricing in zone chat or insulting people that do as if their toxicity is somehow justified because they think they are helping people.

Look, if you want to sell to those folks, you do you. I agree they play a helpful role in the economy for people who don't want to sell their stuff in guilds.

It's acceptable...when everyone knows the value of their goods and agrees on the lower price.

It's shady when it's targeting players who don't.

I will post the general price in chat so that any new or inexperienced player gets an idea of approx. what their goods are worth if they want to sell from a guild store instead.

Everyone should be able to make an informed decision. And if the person offering a certain purchase point is annoyed when their potential sellers are given the information to make an informed decision...well, that says something about their goals.

DMuehlhausen · May 2021

After surviving Barrens Chat from 2004 - 2006 meh not much can be said in zone chat that bothers me lol

SeaGtGruff · May 2021

If you simply quote TTC, that's fine-- although it sounds like you're assuming that the buyers are shady, and that the sellers are too lazy or stupid to walk over to a guild trader to check on price ranges themselves. The old saying about giving a man a fish versus teaching him how to fish suggests it would be better to just post a comment telling new players that they can check at guild traders to see what the current range of asking prices happens to be, and let it go at that.

Sanctum74 · May 2021

VaranisArano wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

It’s an unpopular opinion, but I’m glad we have people like this in zone chat. Sometimes you just want to get rid of a stack of items without joining a guild, selling in zone chat, or worse the npc vendors that only give you 1 gold each those are the real scammers lol.

Personally I’m more bothered by people that think they are saving the world by calling out people’s pricing in zone chat or insulting people that do as if their toxicity is somehow justified because they think they are helping people.

Look, if you want to sell to those folks, you do you. I agree they play a helpful role in the economy for people who don't want to sell their stuff in guilds.

It's acceptable...when everyone knows the value of their goods and agrees on the lower price.

It's shady when it's targeting players who don't.

I will post the general price in chat so that any new or inexperienced player gets an idea of approx. what their goods are worth if they want to sell from a guild store instead.

Everyone should be able to make an informed decision. And if the person offering a certain purchase point is annoyed when their potential sellers are given the information to make an informed decision...well, that says something about their goals.

I’ve never bought anything in chat so please read the post before responding, but I do appreciate the ability to sell items quickly if I choose to.

Both parties make the decision to trade, so while I’m fine if you want to point out pricing, my issue is with people that resort to insults as if it’s justified because they think they’re helping.

Supreme_Atromancer · May 2021

Sanctum74 wrote: »

It’s an unpopular opinion, but I’m glad we have people like this in zone chat. Sometimes you just want to get rid of a stack of items without joining a guild, selling in zone chat, or worse the npc vendors that only give you 1 gold each those are the real scammers lol.

Personally I’m more bothered by people that think they are saving the world by calling out people’s pricing in zone chat or insulting people that do as if their toxicity is somehow justified because they think they are helping people.

"Ahem. Yes, as a totally legit representative of the many many people who love getting exploited by scammers, I just want to express my totally reasonable dismissive attitude at people who want to share information for ...me to make informed decisions. Thanks."

Alurria · May 2021

I did an experiment with perfect roe ( wasn't really I just wanted to sell it because I need the gold) perfect roe is going for 35k for some that's not a lot of gold but for others who are perpetually broke from buying furniture patterns it is. I listed it at that price it sat on the trader for 29 days not moving. I relisted at a lower price and it moved. What does that tell you? The guild trading system works period. I have seen the same furnishing pattern going for wildly different prices across traders. The whole point is I can farm anything in this game so quit making things too expensive. People will only pay what they are comfortable to pay. I will continue to sell under price because I don't like people who gouge other players. So what if you sell it under price. It won't move if it's over priced so you have indicators. The only thing I see as a obstacle for some people is they don't want to invest the time. Why? It's not a race to become the richest person in Nirn. All the artificially obstacles are self imposed.

JoDiMageio · May 2021

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Personally I’m more bothered by people that think they are saving the world by calling out people’s pricing in zone chat or insulting people that do as if their toxicity is somehow justified because they think they are helping people.

Calling out lowball prices doesn't have to be toxic or insulting, nor is it trying to save the world; I will, like others here, check a price and link it in the chat when it is ridiculously under the going price, simply so that people who are new, do not have trading tools, etc., know what it is actually going for, on average. I don't call out the player, I don't insult them, I simply give information. It's factual - there are no emotions involved.

What the potential buyer decides to do with that information is their business.

Rezdayn · May 2021

Eh this old tired opinion...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNcq8lZ7S7Q&ab_channel=Freetality

The above video talks about zone chat, what is allowed in zone chat, what people think is allowed, resellers, spam etc...

and now to address the old... tired... weird... hatred people have for resellers...

No-one is forcing anyone to accept an offer. I have made around 50m gold reselling in ESO (back when I was active) and I never told a lie or misinformed a single player of the prices of the items I was buying...

I wonder how many of these people who irrationally dislike someone for merchanting in a videogame walk into a supermarket and shout at the owner for selling bread for more than they paid for it...

Sanctum74 · May 2021

JoDiMageio wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Personally I’m more bothered by people that think they are saving the world by calling out people’s pricing in zone chat or insulting people that do as if their toxicity is somehow justified because they think they are helping people.

Calling out lowball prices doesn't have to be toxic or insulting, nor is it trying to save the world; I will, like others here, check a price and link it in the chat when it is ridiculously under the going price, simply so that people who are new, do not have trading tools, etc., know what it is actually going for, on average. I don't call out the player, I don't insult them, I simply give information. It's factual - there are no emotions involved.

What the potential buyer decides to do with that information is their business.

I agree it doesn’t have to be toxic or insulting, but as you can see op and many others in this thread seem to think it’s acceptable. Everyone has access to pricing and can buy or sell at any price they want and shouldn’t be shamed for it.

I’ve been playing since release and usually just play weekend nights so I have no need to be in a guild trader, but It’s nice to have a place I can sell items quickly that I would have just vendored for 1 gold each. I don’t see that as being taken advantage of they are doing me a favor and if I don’t like their pricing I have a choice not to sell.

VaranisArano · May 2021

Sanctum74 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

It’s an unpopular opinion, but I’m glad we have people like this in zone chat. Sometimes you just want to get rid of a stack of items without joining a guild, selling in zone chat, or worse the npc vendors that only give you 1 gold each those are the real scammers lol.

Personally I’m more bothered by people that think they are saving the world by calling out people’s pricing in zone chat or insulting people that do as if their toxicity is somehow justified because they think they are helping people.

Look, if you want to sell to those folks, you do you. I agree they play a helpful role in the economy for people who don't want to sell their stuff in guilds.

It's acceptable...when everyone knows the value of their goods and agrees on the lower price.

It's shady when it's targeting players who don't.

I will post the general price in chat so that any new or inexperienced player gets an idea of approx. what their goods are worth if they want to sell from a guild store instead.

Everyone should be able to make an informed decision. And if the person offering a certain purchase point is annoyed when their potential sellers are given the information to make an informed decision...well, that says something about their goals.

I’ve never bought anything in chat so please read the post before responding, but I do appreciate the ability to sell items quickly if I choose to.

Both parties make the decision to trade, so while I’m fine if you want to point out pricing, my issue is with people that resort to insults as if it’s justified because they think they’re helping.

I, ah, didn't say you were a buyer. I said "if you want to sell to those folks, you do you."

If I wasn't clear, "those folks" being the ones buying cheaply in zone chat.

Fennwitty · May 2021

Just a reminder: Many if not all new players don't know how to use guild traders until someone explains it to them.

They open a trader and see nothing for sale. An icon at the top right tells them 'you must be a member of this guild'. They give up.

The interface is counterintuitive so new players frequently DON'T have any points of comparison.

Sanctum74 · May 2021

VaranisArano wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

It’s an unpopular opinion, but I’m glad we have people like this in zone chat. Sometimes you just want to get rid of a stack of items without joining a guild, selling in zone chat, or worse the npc vendors that only give you 1 gold each those are the real scammers lol.

Personally I’m more bothered by people that think they are saving the world by calling out people’s pricing in zone chat or insulting people that do as if their toxicity is somehow justified because they think they are helping people.

Look, if you want to sell to those folks, you do you. I agree they play a helpful role in the economy for people who don't want to sell their stuff in guilds.

It's acceptable...when everyone knows the value of their goods and agrees on the lower price.

It's shady when it's targeting players who don't.

I will post the general price in chat so that any new or inexperienced player gets an idea of approx. what their goods are worth if they want to sell from a guild store instead.

Everyone should be able to make an informed decision. And if the person offering a certain purchase point is annoyed when their potential sellers are given the information to make an informed decision...well, that says something about their goals.

I’ve never bought anything in chat so please read the post before responding, but I do appreciate the ability to sell items quickly if I choose to.

Both parties make the decision to trade, so while I’m fine if you want to point out pricing, my issue is with people that resort to insults as if it’s justified because they think they’re helping.

I, ah, didn't say you were a buyer. I said "if you want to sell to those folks, you do you."

If I wasn't clear, "those folks" being the ones buying cheaply in zone chat.

The irony of me accusing you of not reading the post when I was the one that mis read yours. Sorry about that, little too much wine last night lol.

VaranisArano · May 2021

JoDiMageio wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Personally I’m more bothered by people that think they are saving the world by calling out people’s pricing in zone chat or insulting people that do as if their toxicity is somehow justified because they think they are helping people.

Calling out lowball prices doesn't have to be toxic or insulting, nor is it trying to save the world; I will, like others here, check a price and link it in the chat when it is ridiculously under the going price, simply so that people who are new, do not have trading tools, etc., know what it is actually going for, on average. I don't call out the player, I don't insult them, I simply give information. It's factual - there are no emotions involved.

What the potential buyer decides to do with that information is their business.

Sure. I see it more often in Craglorn - someone was trying to buy Potent Nirncrux for 19k.

Me: "I sell it for 25k in my guild, fast. It goes for around 28-29k in Mournhold."

The buyer then proceeded to inform me that I was lying and my nirncrux would never sell at that price, while I'm looking at recent sales.

For me, I try to be pretty neutral about sharing of price info based on my sales. The buyer's reaction, on the other hand...says a lot about what their goals are in buying cheap. Lots of buyers just ignore it and move on to other zones. Others act like I'm personally taking the gold from their wallet. And if I am indeed depriving them of deals, then it seems to indicate they weren't getting a lot of informed sellers.

VaranisArano · May 2021

Sanctum74 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

It’s an unpopular opinion, but I’m glad we have people like this in zone chat. Sometimes you just want to get rid of a stack of items without joining a guild, selling in zone chat, or worse the npc vendors that only give you 1 gold each those are the real scammers lol.

Personally I’m more bothered by people that think they are saving the world by calling out people’s pricing in zone chat or insulting people that do as if their toxicity is somehow justified because they think they are helping people.

Look, if you want to sell to those folks, you do you. I agree they play a helpful role in the economy for people who don't want to sell their stuff in guilds.

It's acceptable...when everyone knows the value of their goods and agrees on the lower price.

It's shady when it's targeting players who don't.

I will post the general price in chat so that any new or inexperienced player gets an idea of approx. what their goods are worth if they want to sell from a guild store instead.

Everyone should be able to make an informed decision. And if the person offering a certain purchase point is annoyed when their potential sellers are given the information to make an informed decision...well, that says something about their goals.

I’ve never bought anything in chat so please read the post before responding, but I do appreciate the ability to sell items quickly if I choose to.

Both parties make the decision to trade, so while I’m fine if you want to point out pricing, my issue is with people that resort to insults as if it’s justified because they think they’re helping.

I, ah, didn't say you were a buyer. I said "if you want to sell to those folks, you do you."

If I wasn't clear, "those folks" being the ones buying cheaply in zone chat.

The irony of me accusing you of not reading the post when I was the one that mis read yours. Sorry about that, little too much wine last night lol.

No problem, enjoy the wine!

RedMuse · May 2021

Sanctum74 wrote: »

It’s an unpopular opinion, but I’m glad we have people like this in zone chat. Sometimes you just want to get rid of a stack of items without joining a guild, selling in zone chat, or worse the npc vendors that only give you 1 gold each those are the real scammers lol.

Personally I’m more bothered by people that think they are saving the world by calling out people’s pricing in zone chat or insulting people that do as if their toxicity is somehow justified because they think they are helping people.

Personally often post the prices to zone chat when I see the wtb below marked price. Not because I'm against this as such, I just don't want to see someone taken advantage of out of ignorance. Should someone still want to sell to them after learning the average prices I don't care. I never do anything beyond posting the prices, because I have no real opinion on this matter. All I want is for both parties to make an informed choice.

Ans if you find poting ttc and att prices to the zone chat toxic idk what to tell you.

silvermistktralasub17_ESO · May 2021

I'm in a rather unique position...I started out with trade guilds, and largely found that I was uncomfortable with the cut-throat attitudes many take. In the end, I run guild house for a social guild that mostly does group content, something I almost never am involved in myself (visual issues make it very difficult for me to work with anything flashy, such as being able to see the screen at all when people are launching healer staff abilities around me, or, worse, many of the psijiic ones). I don't bother with getting a guild with a trader, and I do writs more or less daily on 17 characters...as a result, though, I'm well known in my guild and several affiliates, for almost always having excess in most gold mats (i rarely will sell the jewelry tempers, and am more likely to buy the roe, for when I'm doing certain types of master writs--but I have a true hoard of other gold mats). It means, when events occur, or dlc drops, people in the guilds know that they can poke me, and I'll look at the current TTC price on whatever they're asking, and shave a decent amount off of it, selling the upgrade mats in bulk to them according to what they need for the new sets they're crafting or upgrading. It's reasonably profitable, though not a constant income (though I'm not sure I'd need a better constant than just doing normal writs on 17 characters a day)....It also means, since I also do master writs, that I end up getting people wanting to have me purchase writ-vendor items (I also supply them now and again to the guild for event prizes). Frankly, the vast majority of my mundus stones came from being willing to trade crafting tables to someone for the crown store gifts of those stones. I did it at a fair price, too...2 complete 4-table sets of attunables per stone. But it's always a good idea to let people know what's fair, and a lot of people seem to be allergic to facts. Not much we can do about that.

Alassirana

Malkiv · May 2021

If you're the person that's linking prices in chat to combat low-ballers, please do it all on one line instead of on multiple lines. It's as annoying to have chat suddenly scroll 5 or 6 times as it is to see people with the low-ball WTBs.

Just....Please do it on one line. Remove some filler text if you have to. No one is going to be like, "YOU DELETED A WORD!!!!! FAAAAKE FAKE FAKE!!!!" Really, please.

ForeverJenn · May 2021

Ah yes....the old hypothetical "Newbs with a bunch of gold coins and mats that could maybe be taken advantage of" argument.....

I doubt the issue is as serious as the nannying in zone often implies. I don't actually see people complaining about being ripped off. I DO see 10-15 people jump on the same guy in Summerset zone chat like he's not aware his prices are higher than normal but also knows he's in a popular crafting area.

gronoxvx · May 2021

Free market.

You dont own me.

I do what i want

RedMuse · May 2021

ForeverJenn wrote: »

Ah yes....the old hypothetical "Newbs with a bunch of gold coins and mats that could maybe be taken advantage of" argument.....

I doubt the issue is as serious as the nannying in zone often implies. I don't actually see people complaining about being ripped off. I DO see 10-15 people jump on the same guy in Summerset zone chat like he's not aware his prices are higher than normal but also knows he's in a popular crafting area.

As neither of us have a single shred of proof to support our position, I suppose we'll all keep believing what we wish to.